Let me get this straight. Trump couldn’t honor the World War I dead in France because of rain? Bad French roads? He couldn’t march with the other world leaders recognizing their WWI dead because of rain?

Maybe security is a problem, but he keeps saying how the world loves him, so what's the problem?

It wasn’t raining on Veterans Day, but no sign of President Trump.

Nationalists don’t acknowledge those who defended and are defending this country?

Dan Cote

Galveston

Locations

(189) comments

Claudia Burnam

Geeeez! Dan, it is to early to start the 2020 election campaign. E G Wiley

George Caros

Lock Ivanka up! Lock Ivanka up

Carlos Ponce

No Classified e-mails, no TOP SECRET e-mails. The only problem is that those e-mails must be archived in government files. All e-mails (mostly her personal schedule) were transferred to her government account FOURTEEN months ago to comply with the law. Problem resolved!
Put away your torches and pitchforks, George Caros.

George Caros

Carlos Ponce you are so smart I guess you were forwarded Crooked lvankas e mails

Jim Forsythe

When the White House does not understand that requirements are in place, and must be followed, reminders are required. Even when they were informed last year that they must follow the rules. Ivanka saying that she did not know the rules does not hold water, unless she does not talk to Jared Kushner and did not hear her father rant about it in the past.

Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill will be scrutinizing Ivanka Trump's personal email use in the White House in light of new revelations that she sent hundreds of messages about government business from that account last year.
After making a big deal about emails, the President tries to say, believe me, nothing to see, although he has not seen all of the e-mails of his employee, Ivanka.

Part of the reason this is a big deal is because of the disregard of the rules. This is a continuation of the probes from last year.
The moves renewed Republican-led congressional probes that had languished since last year when it was revealed that Ivanka Trump's husband, Jared Kushner, and other White House officials had been using private email for government purposes in possible violation of the Presidential Records Act and other federal record-keeping laws.

Two Republicans, Sen. Ron Johnson, who chairs the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committee, and Rep. Trey Gowdy, the outgoing chair of the House Oversight and Government Reform committee, to send letters to the White House requesting a written response and briefing. They are asking for the White House to provide an accounting of the official emails exchanged on Ivanka Trump's personal account and to certify that the emails had been preserved according with federal law

"For more than two years, President Trump and senior leaders in Congress have made it very clear that they view the use of personal email servers for government business to be a serious offense that demands investigation and even prosecution"

Carlos Ponce

"Trump speaks at military cemetery without umbrella in soaking rain"
November 11, 2018 10:48 AM
"SURESNES, France — President Trump spoke without an umbrella during a cold, rainy Veterans Day ceremony in France.The ceremony at Suresnes American Cemetery near Paris was Trump's final scheduled stop before returning to the U.S.
'This is certainly the highlight of the trip,' Trump said, after putting down his umbrella to speak.The few reporters who chose to attend huddled under umbrellas, with ponchos over their computers. Many others chose to remain at a hotel press filing center."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-speaks-at-military-cemetery-without-umbrella-in-soaking-rain
There was more than one ceremony scheduled to honor the end of World War I and honor Americans buried in France. President Trump missed one because Marine One was grounded the logistics of taking a motorcade to that one cemetery negated that idea.
Dan Cote, here's the video from CNN since you apparently missed viewing the ceremony at Suresnes American Cemetery near Paris:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9X0jO1xogs

Bailey Jones

Trump is openly laughed at in the UN, and openly rebuked by our allies in Europe. He couldn't be bothered to join the leaders of France and Germany in honoring our WW1 dead (although he was shamed into attended a second ceremony as noted in another comment). He shows nothing but disdain for the 100's of lives being lost in the California fires, threatening to cut off emergency funds due to state mismanagement (even though the state of California only controls 3% of the forests there - the rest are in federal or private hands). I hope the Dems don't impeach him - I want to see this train wreck to its end, the worst presidency in American history. I can't stop watching,

Carlos Ponce

Bailey, he was not shamed into attending the other ceremony. That's just Liberal hogwash. What ever happened to civility?
Show's disdain for those affected by the California fires? That's a LIE.
Tweets from Trump:
"Just spoke to Governor Jerry Brown to let him know that we are with him, and the people of California, all the way!"
"Was just briefed by @FEMA_Brock and @SecretaryZinke, who are in California. Thank you to the great Firefighters, First Responders and @FEMA for the incredible job they are doing w/ the California Wildfires. Our Nation appreciates your heroism, courage & genius. God Bless you all!"
"We mourn for the lives lost and we pray for the victims of the California Wildfires. I want to thank the Firefighters and First Responders for their incredible courage in the face of grave danger...."
"The California Fire Fighters, FEMA and First Responders are amazing and very brave. Thank you and God Bless you all!"
"With proper Forest Management, we can stop the devastation constantly going on in California. Get Smart!"
"These California fires are expanding very, very quickly (in some cases 80-100 acres a minute). If people don’t evacuate quickly, they risk being overtaken by the fire. Please listen to evacuation orders from State and local officials!"
"More than 4,000 are fighting the Camp and Woolsey Fires in California that have burned over 170,000 acres. Our hearts are with those fighting the fires, the 52,000 who have evacuated, and the families of the 11 who have died. The destruction is catastrophic. God Bless them all."
Now here's the one tweet that is being blown out of proportion is:
"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!"
California officials are mis-managing forest funds. With the continuous forest fires looks like they are mis-spending funds that should be used to PREVENT those fires.
California officials especially Jerry Brown should be the one you're mad at, not Trump.
"In September 2016, Governor Brown vetoed SB 1463, a bill in the California legislature which would have required the California Public Utilities Commission to prioritize areas at increased risk from overhead wires in their management of wildfires." Snopes
"Power lines and electrical equipment are a leading cause of California wildfires"
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-utility-wildfires-20171017-story.html


Daniel Hochman

FOR 56 YEARS the president has laid a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier...until now. Explain that away with your googling bs

Carlos Ponce

A wreath is placed at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier on by the President on MEMORIAL DAY. President Trump placed one on Monday May 28, 2018.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/05/28/president-trump-lays-wreath-tomb-unknown-soldier/
"On Memorial Day the President of the United States traditionally visits Arlington National Cemetery, where America’s honored dead are interred, to deliver a speech in remembrance of those who died in service to their country and to lay a memorial wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns." Snopes
Now Daniel," Explain that away with your googling bs".

George Croix

Actually, the 56 years is also wrong.
2010, President Obama missed the wreath laying...he was in Chicago.
2002, President George W. Bush was in France on Memorial Day at ceremonies at Normandy, so missed the wreath laying.
1989-1992 President George H.W. Bush (himself a World War II veteran) never laid a wreath at the Tomb, being elsewhere all 4 years of his term in office.
1981 Reagan was recuperating from an attempted assassination and laid no wreath. He also missed '83, '87, and '88 due to being at other locations.
'93 to 2000 Pres. Bill Clinton was the only U.S. President in over 30 years to have attended Memorial Day wreath laying at Arlington every year he was in office.

Quote of the day:
"I love when you ignorant folks talk out your you know whats about things you know nothing about."

Emile Pope

But trump was in Washington At the time. Did any President at home miss doing it? Trying to explain it away by mentioning Presidents who were away at the time is laughable...

Carlos Ponce

"Did any President at home miss doing it?" Yes, Look it up.

George Croix

As someone, you, divorced so often from facts, Pope, I can understand your misinterpretation between reporting facts, to correct someone else's deviation from reality, and with making excuses.
A little time with a dictionary will show they are not synonymous.

If you'd paid attention, you'd have noticed I ALREADY said the Pres. or Vice Pres. should have been there, unless something prevented them....

I have no idea why Obama was in Chicago and missed the 2010 event.....for instance....so no sense getting torqued about it.
May have been a good reason...may have been visiting Bill Ayers....best not to assume.........

Emile Pope

Your own data shows that no president in Washington at the time missed the ceremony. The ones that missed it were away from the White House at the time.

George Croix

It's not entirely MY data, Pope...I'm reporting it....and not a thing you say in your typical deflection has anything...anything...to do with any...any...REASON a President might not attend, no matter where that President is.
So far, the Pres. has not seen fit to reach out to me personally and explain his lack of attendance despite my stated disfavor with that. Oddly, none of the others absent ever contacted me, either, to sooth my mind about their decisions....
Maybe he'll get in touch with you.....maybe the last guy, or one of the others will call you up, too....

Carlos Ponce

Emile, Trump was in PARIS on Veteran's day, November 11, 2018,

George Croix

Are the UN and our 'allies' footing any of OUR bills?
It's like caring that a moocher in-law who always shows up to eat but never reciprocates an invitation complains about the dip selection...
Evidently, the best jobs opportunities in US history don't count in the presidency standings, nor do getting hostages released without paying ransom and forcing our 'allies' to stop screwing us over on trade....etc.....
I suppose it depends on who writes the history books.....

George Croix

The UN, where places like Iran can be the head of the Human Rights Commission....

[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Carlos Ponce

"Trump is openly laughed at in the UN.." Yes, they did.
They laughed at what they perceived bragging then APPLAUDED.
Like Will Sonnett said, "No brag, just FACT!"

Emile Pope

Simply made up garbage...

Carlos Ponce

"Garbage" man Emile strikes again! Made up???? Now you're being disingenuous!

Thomas Sanchez

Amen to that thought.

Jarvis Buckley

Dan you don't even believe what you wrote.

David Smith

Because obama was always pro troops.. huh Dan

Gary Scoggin

Good red meat for the Trump can do no wrong crowd. 😁

Anne Reiswerg

The president is still pissed about the election.
Did I miss a tweet about the caravan that arrived at the border yesterday?

George Croix

That's bogus, Gary.
There's a BIG gulf between do NO wrong and do NO right.......
Where's your rowboat...??[beam][beam]

Gary Scoggin

Once I see Carlos criticize the President I’ll reconsider

George Croix

So, when did 1 become a crowd??
[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Gary Scoggin

Oh, it's more than just him. You're not in that crowd but a lot of folks on here are...

George Croix

Gary, if criticizing a President who's less than he should be is the baseline for lack of credibility then hardly a single writer, if any, into these forums has any, based on the last presidential terms.......might want to narrow the criteria a bit......[beam][beam]

Jim Forsythe

I guess no one could make it to the Cemetery. I know Trump would do anything to honor the Troops from the past, but it was just to dangerous for him to do so. Can not fault him for not attempting the impossible. Maybe some brave Americans made it to the Cemetery, fighting the deadly fog and rain Yes, some were able to make it even with the fog and rain. Chief of staff John Kelly and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Joseph Dunford, Kelly's wife and Pompeo defied all odds and made it, ever when others could not.
In the past would any other President have made it? Maybe none would have, except maybe a few.
Ben Rhodes, who served as deputy national security adviser for strategic communications under President Barack Obama, said the excuse about the inclement weather did not stand up. “I helped plan all of President Obama’s trips for 8 years,” he wrote on Twitter. “There is always a rain option. Always.”
I do not think that Obama was the first President that would have had a plan in place. Lack of planning is no excuse.

Ron Binkley

The bottom line is that Trump is a sorry excuse of a humane being...plain & simple!

George Croix

How about anyone who associates with domestic terrorists or anyone who socializes with people who call for deaths of law enforcement officers?
Are they sorry excuses for human beings?
A plain and simple answer will suffice..............[whistling]

Emile Pope

Such as?

George Croix

You're a funny guy, Pope.....

Carlos Ponce

Gary, quit drinking the RUSSIA, RUSSIA RUSSIA Kool-aid. It's bad for your health and your intelligence. Everyone knows what the Russians did in trying to influence the 2016 elections. And if you read the Congressional committees reports you will find that their efforts did not change one vote, much less the Electoral outcome of that election. But they were successful in their aim to disrupt any attempt at American unity. And the Democrats are doing Russia's bidding in that aim. Liberals are Russia's STOOGES.

Carlos Ponce

"Ron Binkley Nov 15, 2018 10:36am
The bottom line is that Trump is a sorry excuse of a humane being...plain & simple!"
Perhaps the "simple" believe that. But I did not perceive Ron Binkley as "simple". Maybe I was wrong.

George Croix

Ben Rhodes has selective memory when it comes to chief executives skipping military honors ceremonies.....

That fact aside, ONE of the two, the Pres. or the VP, should have attended, imo, unless some good reason other than weather.
There may have been one, and may not.....
NONE of us would be where we are absent the nation's military making it possible to be so....
Maybe actually taking much better care of the nations veterans can sooth somewhat missing a ceremony for those veterans......maybe......

Emile Pope

The Queen of England made it!!!

Carlos Ponce

Yes, Emile, the Queen of England made it to the Armistice Day celebration at the Cenotaph in London. So what? The weather in London was better than in Paris.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7712004/meghan-markle-kate-queen-armistice-day-ww1-soldiers/
Were you posting about another queen?

Emile Pope

Kelly made it. The Germans made it. The British made it. trump sits in the can and tweets then blames the secret service for not going...

TR Galan

It takes convenient and selective forgetfulness to pen the term ‘civility’ anywhere in an article concerning the Trump administration. While politics can be likened to blood sport, it’s a cheap and dangerous version of politics that promotes divisiveness, polarization, outright lies, in-your-face disrespect and simultaneous kick-them-while-they’re-down self-aggrandizement. The focus of this administration is to train it’s supporters on the bright shiny objects in one hand while tampering down respect, humility and, what’s been sorely missing in this country's leadership - statesmanship - with the other.

George Croix

Conveniently and selectively slept through the Obama Admin...??
[beam][beam][whistling]
Trump is no different than Obama in every category you mentioned, except so far he hasn't gotten any Americans killed after they were denied help, nor been caught laughing after an American was beheaded, or invited racist cop-killer-lover trash to the WH, or routinely belittled Law Enforcement, or decimated the military, or ......
It MUST be painful to remember those facts, which explains why so many choose to pretend they never happened...yet have the energy to pitch a hissy fit about far less from the new guy.....

Jim Forsythe

If the President wants , he can investigate all of what you say. George, one can excuse bad behavior because what has happen in the past, or require better behavior from whom is in power. If we except his behavior, that is all we will receive. If we continue down this path we are on, we will become isolated from the rest of the world.

George Croix

Jim, I don't accept his behavior, or excuse it, as you well know, Jim.
I simply don't conveniently forget anybody else's, or excuse theirs, either.....
Isolated from the world?
That's a joke, right?
If not, it's pretty funny anyway...........in or out of church.....
[whistling]

George Croix

ps:
No need to investigate common knowledge, Jim.
Only Rip van Winkle wouldn't know all that.....or perhaps MSNBC watchers...

Emile Pope

What in the world are you talking about?????

Daniel Hochman

Amen!!

Gary Miller

130,000,000 dead trees and millions of acres of dead underbrush? California fire fuel that can't be cleaned out because of GREEN politics. They want natural forests. Millions of acres of foot deep ashes is natural but is not forest. If it weren't for the dead and property loss we could call it California NATURAL. Aren't anyone in the state of nuts and fruits smart enough to figure out living in a fire trap isn't a good idea.

Jim Forsythe

California has a problem to the tune of 129 million dead trees, spread across 8.9 million acres which is equal to less than 15 trees per acre. One of the reason that so many dead trees are standing is because most are in remote areas where it’s difficult to bring tree harvesting equipment. This also applies to the underbrush that is in the remote areas.
This equals money.
Since a lot of the acres are on Federal Government land, the state and Federal Government will be working together.
Things are changing .
Sep 4, 2018
California is taking some steps to systematically reduce fire hazards. The state legislature on Friday passed a $1 billion fire risk reduction package. It give grants over five years to communities to cut fuel breaks, thin flammable brush, and educate firefighters. The bill also relaxes rules on logging to make it easier to get to some of the most flammable trees.

Daniel Hochman

I love when you ignorant folks talk out your you know whats about things you know nothing about. First of All, the forests there are NOT mismanaged. Second, the Drump administration cut the forest service budget for that very management you and he are criticizing. Third, any forest manager knows about prescribed burns and they conduct them on a regular basis. Fourth green policies will save your ridiculous behind from future devastation to our ecosystems which support human health and economic heath.

George Croix

ps:
A nationalist is a person who places the importance and the priorities of his/her nation ahead of other nations. No country's leader worth being called one is not a nationalist.
We DO have in this country a whole bunch of people, citizens and non-citizens, who are not nationalists, although eagerly willing to take whatever the country will give them, thus piling the heap of their hypocrisy ever higher.
Trying to change 'nationalist' into some pejorative is the stuff of MSM directed phony outrage, and individuals who can't be fixed.......
IMO, as always.....

Daniel Hochman

I'm sorry George, but, as usual, you are incorrect. Any student of history knows the difference between nationalism and patriotism, which is what you just described...

Historically, nationalism has been used to define and explain everything from radical political and militaristic movements like Nazism to strong protectionist policies controlling modern foreign policy and economy. While patriotism (an easily confused term with nationalism) is perhaps harmless (like that exuded on the 4th of July), nationalism is more sinister in nature.

Nationalism centers on a country's culture, language, and often race. It may also include shared literature, sports, or the arts, but is primarily driven by cultural associations. And, it promotes the nation at the expense of others. Nationalist countries or leaders don't join international organizations or associations, and maintain a superior view of themselves to the detriment of other nations. Nationalism has a positive view of conquering other nations as it sees itself as the ultimate nation. Any ideologies that undercut or contradict the nation are opposed.

Nationalism, in its extreme forms, has led to genocide, the Holocaust, and, more specifically, the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia in the 1990s.

Nationalism is not the same as patriotism. While patriotism is a bit more of a vague word to describe the love and devotion to a country, its ideals and values, nationalism is more the promotion of a nation's culture, language, and supremacy above others. In this sense, nationalism is often race or ethnicity-driven, which can have dangerous implications.

Patriotism can be seen in things like the singing of the national anthem at a World Cup soccer game, the decorations on a table for the 4th of July, or the dedication service men and women show through their heroism. It is far less ideologically destructive than nationalism and doesn't necessitate the same devotions.

George Croix

Then you'd best go back to school, Daniel, because the founders and later builders of this country were both, just as anyone else can be.....
But, to each his own opinion......and to you, your own facts.....as usual....[beam]

George Croix

ps:
America IS an exceptional nation.
No matter how many ignorant people think otherwise......

Don Schlessinger

“Nationalism, in its extreme forms, has led to genocide, the Holocaust, and, more specifically, the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia in the 1990s.” I’m confused Daniel, are you talking about nationalism or radical nationalism? When you think about nationalism do you think about it with a definition that was written in 1959 or 2018? You don’t think, like every idea in this world today that the definition you’re thinking of has changed? Old ideas, OLD Ideas!!

George Croix

In it's non-extreme form it has led to the United States of America, the most generous nation TO others in the history of the world....
lest we forget....

TR Galan

The term ‘nationalist’ is this season’s n-word, dog whistle and excuse for policies that isolate those who don’t exactly look and think like the majority. It was obvious and catastrophic in 1930’s Germany and 1960’s US southern states among countless other citations. In today’s climate, to offer such a cleansed and sanitized definition is to blatantly ignore the biting surroundings in favor of convenient and selective ‘alternative facts’. The danger in slight-of-handing your constituents is you lose track of the other significant topics on the table both here at home and abroad. While Nero fiddles with ‘nationalism’, our foreign competitors are staking future claims for their own purposes.

George Croix

Only for people easily influenced or intimidated.
Talk of 'dog whistles' and other such silliness is just that...silly.....nothing more than an attempt to silence.....works for some, but not for all..............
There's no reason for anyone to assume or declare that nationalism has squat to do with racism or xenophobia or any other pejorative, except the usual suspects looking for a way to convince themselves this country is bad, or shutdown dissent.
The USA has ALWAYS been a melting pot, and still is overall, even though a lot of newcomers just sorta float around without melting, while still enjoying any benefits.
Putting one's COUNTRY first over others also does not preclude going to/giving others aid, as a couple world wars and various other conflicts prove...as any 7th grade student of history knows. It simply means that THIS country is primarily more important than OTHER countries.
Anyone care to name any other country in the world where that country is NOT most important to itself? Where it's own people are secondary to others?

Prioritizing is not a synonym for excluding........

Jim Forsythe

A good thing happen when Senators and Congressmen, plus Veterans groups said no. For someone that says he (Trump) is in favor of the military, he has a strange way of showing it.
The head of the American Legion blasted President Trump's 2018 budget proposal as a "stealth privatization" of veterans services. Legion National Commander Charles Schmidt said the White House's proposed budget for Veterans Affairs was an "unacceptable attack" on those who served the nation.
What where they upset about?
Trump’s 2018 budget proposal called for cuts in benefits to veterans with 60 percent disability ratings who lived alone, but this has been abandoned, “ Disabled veterans could have seen their annual disability benefits fall from around $35,000 to around $13,000 under Donald Trump’s budget proposal to cut “individual unemployability” for disabled veterans who were old enough to receive Social Security payments.”

Carlos Ponce

"The head of the American Legion blasted President Trump's 2018 budget proposal as a "stealth privatization" of veterans services."
That happened in late May 2017.
Here's a picture of smiling Legion National Commander Charles Schmidt with President Trump on August 23, 2017 after signing the Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act.
https://www.rt.com/usa/400701-trump-american-legion-civic-nationalism/
Schmidt must not have been that upset.

Carlos Ponce

Trump Tweet
"By the way, when the helicopter couldn’t fly to the first cemetery in France because of almost zero visibility, I suggested driving. Secret Service said NO, too far from airport & big Paris shutdown. Speech next day at American Cemetery in pouring rain! Little reported-Fake News!"

Jim Forsythe

Trump, who returned to Washington on Sunday, also skipped a Veterans Day memorial event at Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia on Monday.

Carlos Ponce

Presidential attendance at a Veteran's day memorial event at Arlington is optional. Some presidents go, some don't. Obama did not attend a memorial event in Arlington on Veteran's Day several years but issued proclamations. Likewise the laying of a wreath on the tomb of the Unknown on Memorial day was missed by presidents Reagan, Bush and Obama.

Emile Pope

They weren't in town at the time...

Carlos Ponce

On Veteran's Day, Trump was in France.
"President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump arrived in Orly Airport on November 9. Trump held a bilateral meeting with President Emmanuel Macron at Élysée Palace on November 10. On November 11, Trump participated in the Armistice Day celebrations marking the 100th anniversary of the Armistice with Germany that brought major hostilities of World War I to an end. Visited the Suresnes American Cemetery and Memorial"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidential_trips_made_by_Donald_Trump_during_2018
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/armistice-day-2018-world-leaders-gather-in-paris-to-commemorate-end-of-world-war-one-a3986866.html
Emile, Veteran's Day is November 11. Trump was in France November 11, 2018.

TR Galan

So it's been proven that Mr. Schmidt knows how to smile; what was the point again? Most grown-up's, willing to acknowledge their own fallibility, would admit to faults and shortcomings, however, the classic Trump response is to: 1) distract with a carnival barker’s ‘watch this shiny object’ and 2) watch how I fabricate and pitch the fault elsewhere; traits that New Yorker’s are all too familiar with.

Carlos Ponce

Schmidt had a difference of opinion with Trump which was overblown by FAKE NEWS media.

TR Galan

Agreed, Mr. Ponce; you've proven to yourself the incident was overblown by your 'Fake News' media.

Carlos Ponce

I check all sources - no FAKE NEWS for me! [beam]

Dan Freeman

Bottom line, it was not rain that blocked his tribute to the fallen, it was the President nursing bone spurs, both in Paris and in D.C.

The count against the President's Men is still 34 indictments and 8 convictions including conspiracy against the United States and tax evasion.

Jeff Sessions could not get a single indictment against members of the Obama Administration. Is that why he resigned?

George Croix

Al Capone was never indicted for murder.....that means he was innocent of them......
[beam][beam][beam]

Emile Pope

He was indicted and convicted of something...

Carlos Ponce

But as George posts, not because of murder. He was indicted and convicted of tax evasion and prohibition charges.

George Croix

ps:
Doesn't one have to be President at the time to have President's men?

George Croix

Dan, how about supporting a special prosecutor tasked with fully investigating the previous Administration's 'no scandals', and see if any indictments come down FROM that Admin.
We've got one sailor that spent a year in prison for a couple of inadvertent snapshots, so the opportunities for some serious jail time abound with just ONE player from back then.
If that ever happened, I'd bet a hundred bucks against your 5 dollars that a lot more fur would be flying than a few crooked business associations and activities...
Bet will still be good IF such ever happens.....[wink][smile]

Carlos Ponce

Dan, Trump attended a memorial service at Suresnes American Cemetery Cemetery outside Paris in the rain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnZYA2bIrEE
"The count against the President's Men is still 34 indictments and 8 convictions including conspiracy against the United States and tax evasion." Most of the indictments were PR indictments against Russians, NOT TRUMP'S MEN. Nothing to do with Trump, his campaign.
And the 8 were mostly PROCESS CRIMES.
And wait on the indictments against members of the Obama administration. They're coming.

Dan Freeman

Curiously Mr Ponce considers tax evasion and conspiracy against the United States “PROCESS CRIMES.” Is he watching Russian Television? Maybe he is a bot.

George Croix

Tax evasion and conspiracy against the United States.
Not good.
Of course, using a tax exempt 'foundation' to cover all of your personal expenses is not evasion of any sort, and gathering your allies to together to claim 'it was the video' to try to cover up for 4 dead Americans, rather than interfere in election chances, is not a conspiracy against the country.....
Thank goodness we're now looking for REAL issues, instead of silly ones like those last two.....[whistling][whistling]

Carlos Ponce

So Danny Boy, what does "tax evasion and conspiracy" have to do with Trump or the campaign????
Have any your friends, family or acquaintances ever been indicted, jailed? Is Dan Freeman also guilty by association if they were?

Gary Scoggin

George, nice deflection to Hillary. I went back and checked again. She still lost.

George Croix

Gary, nice deflection to pretending that losing an election is absolution for anything before and after that......

Gary Scoggin

Benghazi was investigated to death by Republicans. The server stuff by the FBI, and Comey didn’t do her any favors. So back to Russia, don’t you think it’s important to get to the bottom of what happened no matter wher it leads?

Carlos Ponce

"Benghazi was investigated to death....." really Gary? I hope you're not poking fun at four American deaths during the Obama administration. I don't think you were thinking when you posted that. As to the intent of your post all I can say is COVERUP.

Jim Forsythe

Carlos, how many Investigation's are enough? Will it be enough, only if the results are what you want? They had more Republicans than Democrats on the Investigation teams.
You have no inside knowledge of the anything that was not Investigation. If you did, you would have turned it over to the Investigation teams.

So Carlos, what would make you happy.?

Investigation 1: The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
Investigation 2: The Senate Committee On Homeland Security And Governmental Affairs
Investigation 3: The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
Investigation 4: The House Committee on Foreign Affairs
Investigation 5: The House Committee on the Judiciary
Investigation 6: The House Committee on Armed Services
Investigation 7: The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence

George Croix

Sure, it's important to get to the bottom....no matter where it leads.....evidently even when it leads to things from a decade before anyone heard of a Trump candidacy, and which he had nothing to do with.
Benghazi was 'investigated' AFTER Hillary dumped the 30,000 plus documents and destroyed devices and evidence and under the initial watchful eye of the Head Guy and his cronies who made up from thin air 'the video'.
I'd say Trump should simply burn or destroy any and all evidence that Mueller asks for, and let him go pound sand....there's a precedent for that............what difference would that make now....[wink][rolleyes][whistling]

Carlos Ponce

Mueller finished last year. And he found NOTHING!

Gary Scoggin

Carlos.... "death" was an inadvertent bad choice of words. Of course, I spent no disrespect. But I can see how Conservative snowflakes can see it that way. As Jim points out there have been like seven investigations, none of which put culpability on Clinton. But somehow the Trump bunch sqwaks about one investigation led by an honorable decorated veteran with a long record of public service that is going after crimes that strike at the heart of our democracy.

George Croix

And who just happens to be close friends with the lead figure, fired by the investigation target, in the bunch of people who started this whole mess based on a phony claim in a paid-for-by-the-opposition-Party-candidates'-campaign resulting in a phony dossier that led to spying on the other political campaign during an election cycle.....
Yet, rather than investigate THAT, the goal is try to blame Russia for things not turning out quite like the attempted soft coup planned, thus deflecting from the actual criminal culprits.....

And THAT is the rest of the story....

Gary Scoggin

So you’re insinuating that Mueller is a stooge and there’s nothing to this Russia deal. Is that correct?

Carlos Ponce

And Danny Boy, one of the Mueller "indictments" was against a Russian company which did not exist at the time. A person with intelligence would question the validity of those indictments.

Jim Forsythe

Mueller and the courts will sort out if they were in business during this time period. A defendant and lawyers saying that something is true, does not make it so. If Mueller releases the reports, we will see at that time.
"The feds claim that Prigozhin owns the Internet Research Agency (which allegedly oversaw the illegal U.S. "trolling" labor from to 2014 to 2017), though he denies this. He admits to partial ownership of Concord Catering and Concord Management, neither of which are alleged to have engaged in the online shitposting that the agency did. They were added to the U.S. sanctions list because of their link to Prigozhin (who has been on the sanctions list since 2016) and to Mueller's February indictment because the Justice Deparment claims they financed the Internet Research Agency's work.
As to the claim that Concord didn't exist during the last U.S. presidential election: There are myriad old references to Concord Catering in Russian media, and press releases about Concord events and openings in Russia say that it was founded in 1996. It also still seems to be operational today. It's unclear if or when Concord Catering began doing any business in the United States. Searches of Nexis business info, the SEC database, and the National Business Register turn up no results for any company called Concord Catering except a small and unrelated business in Arizona."

Carlos Ponce

Concord catering, a Mueller indicted Russian company did not exist at the time. That's a fact. The judge knows it. The court knows it. Mueller loses credibility. What a putz!

Jim Forsythe


The Judge just ruled. Looks like they were in business, and so is Mueller.
11/15/2018
Special counsel Robert Mueller on Thursday scored a legal victory after a federal judge denied a Russian firm’s motion to dismiss charges against it.
Judge Dabney Friedrich, who President Donald Trump appointed to the U.S. District Court of D.C. last year, shot down the motion from Concord Management and Consulting, a St. Petersburg-based firm that prosecutors say financed and organized an army of internet trolls and social media ad buys as well as other tactics to try and sow discord in the U.S. and aid Trump’s candidacy for president.

Mike Zeller

We can all see who loses credibility. That's a fact.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, not Concord Management. It was Concord Catering which did not exist.

George Croix

Jim, old buddy, should we get equally upset and start investigating the Democrat funded groups sending out false warnings in this election, such as, in one instance in North Dakota, claiming that any hunter voting in North Dakota could lose a hunting license.....maybe add the inevitable yet totally bogus 'disenfranchising' scare tactics?
C'mon....play fair............

Jim Forsythe

Carlos, they are talking about all three companies , including Concord Catering. Nothing has be settled except that Concord Catering will be part of it.
05/04/2018
A federal judge has rejected special counsel Robert Mueller’s request to delay the first court hearing in a criminal case charging three Russian companies and 13 Russian citizens with using social media and other means to foment strife among Americans in advance of the 2016 U.S
Mueller, who was appointed to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election, charged Concord as well as two other Russian businesses and 13 Russian individuals in February of this year.

Jim Forsythe

George, this was about residential hunting license from another state that a person may not be able to keep if they declare they are a resident of North Dakota. It may technically correct, but I doubt that it would ever be enforced. I'm sure this will be looked at.
"A lot of the kind of transition that people have on voting it means you're a resident. It means you pay taxes here. It means that if you want a residential hunting license in Minnesota you aren't going to get that if you vote here. And so I think it's really important that people understand the consequences of voting, and that goes to taxes and things like your hunting," Heitkamp responded.The reporter then asked if one could lose a hunting license by voting in North Dakota. "If your hunting license is a residential hunting license in another state," Heitkamp said.
This is another case that will be looked at.
The issue has become particularly prominent in North Dakota as a number of recent reports suggest Native Americans living on reservations may not be eligible to vote because they rely on P.O. boxes rather than typical addresses.
This may not be against the law, but it should be, No one should be able to oversee a election they are in. In Kansas he step down from overseeing a race he was in.
When a candidate for governor — who also happens to be responsible for overseeing Georgia’s elections — is trying to purge 53,000 mostly Black voters from the voting rolls, we have to call it what it is: voter suppression. We need to fight back even harder at the ballot box.

George Croix

Actually, Jim, it's about using the gullibility of people at worst or confusing them at best to get them to do something, or believe something then act accordingly.....
The effect is the same, the difference being the source.....
A different vote or no vote is the same in the end, no matter where the misdirection originated....
The amazing thing is so many schools in this country evidently have abandoned teaching world history, else so many would not be unaware that the Russians have been sowing discord everywhere possible that benefits them for, oh, some 100 years.....
It's just ANOTHER excuse for Hillary losing to a political novice...she had already proven her ability to lose to an arrogant, self-important, jerk...............imo....

Jim Forsythe

George, Trump has ran before.
Donald Trump, first dabbled in presidential politics in the early summer of 1987. Republican political organizer Mike Dunbar, unimpressed with the candidates for the 1988 Republican presidential nomination, founded the "Draft Trump for President" organization. In 2000, he ran in the Reform Party. Before he tried several times but he was not the able to close the deal. To say he was not successful, is true. He won in 2016 in part to a failed candidate.

1999 Trump contemporaneously delved into the politics of third party campaigns when he wrote a letter to Commission on Presidential Debates asking the body to review its standard for third party candidate inclusion in the general election debates.
Trump won the California primary on March 7 with 15,311 votes (44.28%) defeating perennial candidate George D. Weber who received 9,390 votes (27.16%), former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development Robert M. Bowman
Several days after withdrawing, Trump reflected on his campaign in an editorial published in The New York Times titled "What I Saw at the Revolution." Disputing the claim that he ran for the publicity, Trump countered that he felt the nation was ready for a non-establishment "businessman president" who offered "straight talk."
But he dropped out.
He cited three reasons for dropping out: (1) the criteria of the Commission on Presidential Debates, which would have made it "impossible" for him to qualify for general election debates; (2) the rise of the presidential campaign of John McCain, whose similar message would have made a contrast difficult; and (3) the exit of Ventura from the Reform Party. Trump called his run the "greatest civics lesson that a private citizen can have," but said it was "enormous fun" and a "great life experience," though it "doesn't compare with completing one of the great skyscrapers of Manhattan."

George Croix

Jim, I concede that on this your pair of nitpicking tweezers are sharper than mine.... [beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]
At least where putting a toe in the water to check the temperature is equal to a dive in from the high board by folks who've made careers of that....

Carlos Ponce

"Donald Trump, first dabbled in presidential politics in the early summer of 1987."
No one took it seriously. Did you?

Jim Forsythe

Mike Dunbar did. Former President Richard Nixon did.

Carlos Ponce

Dunbar and Nixon. And what came of it? NOTHING.
And Concord Catering still did not exist in the US at the time. Again, it goes to Mueller's credibility described as indicting a ham sandwich.

Jim Forsythe

Carlos you asked "No one took it seriously" and I gave you two that did. You did not ask what came of it. The answer to that is he used it as a spring board to 1999, Trump won a third party California primary , just as most do working his way up.
From that he worked his way to 2016.
One yes or no, in a large case usually does not change the outcome. Mueller case is not hinged on the ruling about Concord Catering. Are you saying that Concord Catering did not exist, or just in the USA?
,Mueller's did not lose credibility with anyone that is going to wait to the end to judge. Others have already made up their minds.
A February 2018 indictment by the United States Justice Department alleged that Concord Management and Consulting began operations in 2014 with the intention to financially support a group known as the Internet Research Agency which allegedly interfered with the 2016 United States Presidential election won by Donald J. Trump.
An initial hearing was in May 2018.On Friday, November 16, "The Hill" reported a U.S. Federal Judge upholding Robert Mullers case.

Carlos Ponce

In other words what Jim is posting that when a blade of grass is cut it is a WORLD WIDE EVENT!

Jim Forsythe

No Carlos, what I was that Trump started working on being elected in 1987. Also that Mueller's investigation is still on,

Christopher Fluke

Carlos, it's easy to do a search. Concord Catering was founded in 1996 in Russia. The domain concord-catering.ru in Russia has been around since 1998, and still active. The URL is owned by Concord Management and Consulting. Do a WHOIS.

Carlos Ponce

That Concord Catering was in Russia, not the United States as indicated in the indictment at the time. And the Russian "Concord Catering" had a RUSSIAN name (Конкорд Кейтеринг). Its American export did not appear until AFTER the time the indictment indicates. Think of PEMEX which had been in Mexico for decades - but NOT in this country until recently.

Carlos Ponce

Jim posts, "Also that Mueller's investigation is still on" And they still have not linked Trump or his campaign to anything illegal. Those indicted Russians had NOTHING to do with Trump.

Jim Forsythe

Carlos , unless you have a way of knowing what is in the Mueller's investigation results , you are just guessing. When Mueller is finished we may know, if they release the reports to the public As far as "And they still have not linked Trump or his campaign to anything illegal" you do not know that, as they have not released that info, one way or the other.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, with as much as has LEAKED from Team Mueller there is nothing there.

Jim Forsythe

What has come from the Team Mueller, is what Mueller has wanted released. We will have to wait to see if anything else is going to be released. He is not required to release it to the public, so we may never know. Unless you have insider access to the documents and transcripts and such, you do not know. You can guess, but that is it. He has not finished all the taking of facts yet. The President is just submitting his .

Gary Scoggin

Jim... you don’t get it. The GDN Conservative Snowflakes are smarter than anybody, especially a crooked nincompoop like Robert Mueller. They don’t need evidence. They have Rush, Hannity and Google to inform them.

Christopher Fluke

Carlos, did you read the indictment? I'm betting not because the indictment states clearly "Defendants CONCORD MANAGEMENT AND CONSULTING LLC (Конкорд Менеджмент и Консалтинг) and CONCORD CATERING are related Russian entities with various Russian government contracts. CONCORD was the ORGANIZATION’s primary source of funding for its interference operations. CONCORD controlled funding, recommended personnel, and oversaw ORGANIZATION activities through reporting and interaction with ORGANIZATION management." The company indicted was the RUSSIAN company, not the US company, and the RUSSIAN company has been around since 1996. There are only three references to the catering company, and only one indicates which one it is, and it states that it is a Russian ENTITY. Now if you think it still is the US company, please provide proof because the above quote is from the actual indictment, not some lawyer trying to state that it is the US company founding later.

Carlos Ponce

Court records show that there was no Concord Catering in the United States at the time. Конкорд Кейтеринг existed only in Russia at the time.

Gary Scoggin

This Concord back and forth has gotten me totally confused except it appears Carlos is trying to defend a Russian company that tried to subvert our election.

Jim Forsythe

Carlos, did you read the indictment

Carlos Ponce

Come on, get with it! You have to consider the SOURCE of the indictment. "Concord Catering" was part of the indictment. Stupid is as stupid does. Team Mueller was STUPID in including "Concord Catering" in their indictment.

Carlos Ponce

"it appears Carlos is trying to defend a Russian company that tried to subvert our election."
A company that did not exist at the time? Right is right, wrong is wrong and stupid is stupid. I stand up for what is right. The nationality doesn't matter.
"a Russian company that tried to subvert our election" How could they when they had NO PRESENCE, ZERO ZIP NADA in this country? Not even an electronic presence. THINK MAN, THINK!!!!!

Jim Forsythe

"Concord Catering" Russia.
Even if a judge ever rules that Mueller can not include "Concord Catering" Russia , it does not change a thing, as the case will go on.
Why are you calling Mueller STUPID? He is doing the job he is charged with, and is completing. He could take up to another year to complete his task, as he is still gathering facts.

George Croix

Still gathering facts, Jim?
About what he was supposed to investigate, or whatever can be found going back 30 years.....
SOOn as it was KNOWN....KNOWN.... months ago that the phony 'dossier' was cooked up by the DNC and the Hillary campaign and pushed by the crooked FBI upper echelons and aided by the corrupt top levels at DoJ, that which STARTED this 'investigation', he should have closed shop, because the whole reason for being was a contrived, deliberate attempt to alter the course of an election.
But, nooooo....now, looking for income tax problems from a decade or more ago....and Russians in the woodpile, while ACTUAL, HANDS ON undermining of American democracy sits within easy reach - the fact that a principal among them is Mueller's good friend is probably not a factor......
If the actors had done this to Obama, it would have been over long ago, right after all the various 'isms' claims were tossed around and the fires from all the riots, er, 'protests', put out.............
tell me....we KNOW that Pres. Obama was informed months ahead of the election about Russian meddling, and did NOTHING, despite THAT BEING HIS JOB AT THE TIME.....why isn't he being investigated, rather than covered for and given a pass???
Answer:
The typical Two Faces of the Left, that's why..............
Witch hunt?
No.
Pablum for the usual suspects

Jim Forsythe

Still gathering facts November 16, 2018,
President Trump has answered questions from the special counsel regarding the investigation into Russia, though he hasn't submitted them. I call Trump answer facts, unless you think what he says is not fact.

When Mueller is finished, it may become clearer, unless some do not agree because it does not fit what they perceive as facts. The American public dose not know what will be in the report, so most of what people are saying about Mueller and what he is finding , is just guessing.

George Croix

Yet, one FACT never asked yet by the 'investigation', or even by you old friend, is asking why Obama did squat about known Russian interference. Why not? Isn't THAT, the Russian interference, the supposed focus of this investigation? When's the ex-Pres. going to fill out his Mueller questionnaire..he as THE Man With The Job at the time, versus just a guy who was running for the job.
No, the intent is not find Russians around each corner.
It's Get Trump.
When the Lead Investigator is best friends with a PRINCIPAL participant in the election rigging efforts and deflecting blame to others, and when so many don't CARE about that fact, that's the result.
That, and not having an Attorney General except in name only for the last 10 years........

Carlos Ponce

"Why are you calling Mueller STUPID? He is doing the job he is charged with, and is completing."
No, Mueller has gone BEYOND his task to find Russian collusion. Having found NOTHING he EXPANDED his scope. Just look at the indictments and persecutions - NOTHING to do with Russian collusion.

Jim Forsythe

You keep trying to make the investigation about collusion only, which is not true. It does include “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.”
"Rosenstein’s memo tasked Mueller with investigating “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump,” as well as “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.” and we do not know what may have arose from the investigation.
Since you and I are not part of the investigation, we will have to wait for the conclusion and how it all ties together.

Investigation includes any possible links ,not just collusion.
The ongoing Special Counsel investigation is a United States law enforcement and counterintelligence investigation of any foreign government's efforts to interfere, with primary focus on Russia, during the 2016 presidential election. This investigation includes any possible links or coordination between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and the Russian government, "and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation." In addition, the scope of the investigation includes potential obstruction of justice by Trump and others.

George Croix

"You keep trying to make the investigation about collusion only, which is not true. It does include “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.”

Those are your words, Jim. Right?
Now, fact is, NO matters would have arisen from what should never have been an investigation in the first place, because it was predicated on Mueller's buddy's collusion with others, which was all bunch of fabricated, by them, 'evidence' along with willful deceit to a FISA judge about the veracity and sources of the dossier.

You're saying that the justification for looking back decades is the wording of the investigation's mandate, true, BUT those words were only written to start an investigation based on a TOTAL LIE, so there never should have been a Mueller investigation about 'Russian collusion'....just a ploy to get after Trump.

There was no need for a stand alone Special Investigation for 'Russian interference in the election'....THAT was already KNOWN, and Pres. Obama was already given a pass for doing NOTHING about it.....
It's un-fixable to let the Top Dog person in charge and his underlings skate and try to hang it on the one who wasn't even a government employ/elected at the time....
But, there it is.....the 'resistance' again, with heads firmly inserted in B-hinds..........

Carlos Ponce

Jim posts, "You keep trying to make the investigation about collusion only, which is not true."
"The Justice Department appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as a special counsel to lead a federal investigation into allegations that Donald Trump's campaign collaborated with Russia to sway the 2016 election that put him in the White House." Chicago Tribune.
What we have here is "Mission creep".

Jim Forsythe

George
The Justice Department disagreed that there should never have been an investigation. That horse has left the stable a long time ago, and the investigation will continue unless someone stops it.

Carlos
If you want to only recognize part of what is Mueller investigation is about, you can.
Or you can include all that Mueller is tasked with, if you want to be truthful. Just by saying all he is looking for is collusion only and he should not be looking for anything else, it not being truthful, but you can keep thinking that if you want.

In an order announcing the appointment, Rosenstein explained he had taken the decision “to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election”, including “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump”.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, Mueller went outside his assignment. If he discovered something inappropriate or illegal in his investigation he should have turned over his findings to the PROPER authorities. Instead he spends MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Federal tax dollars on rabbit trails just so he can put another "notch" on list of indictments which have NOTHING to do with Russian collusion with Trump and his campaign. What would you do if you were ticketed in Galveston County for speeding by a Louisiana police officer? Yes he's supposed to enforce the law but he's outside his assigned duties.

Jim Forsythe

Carlos
If you want to only recognize part of what is Mueller investigation is about, you can.
Or you can include all that Mueller is tasked with, if you want to be truthful. Just by saying all he is looking for is collusion only and he should not be looking for anything else, it not being truthful, but you can keep thinking that if you want.

Carlos Ponce

COLLUSION was ALL he was supposed to do, PERIOD!!!!!! If he found something else, those findings MUST be turned over to the appropriate authorities.

Jim Forsythe

Mueller is the doing what he is tasked with. If you do not like what he is doing, it is your problem . Mueller's problem is to get to the truth.
Mueller will continue until he is finished, unless someone stops him. Like it or not. Some people must be afraid of what Mueller will find , to try so hard and stop him.
If you want to only recognize part of what is Mueller investigation is about, you can.

Carlos Ponce

"Mueller is the doing what he is tasked with." No, he's gone FAR beyond the directed scope. And he'll continue to milk that money cow.

Jim Forsythe

Mueller will continue until he is finished, unless someone stops him. Like it or not. Some people must be afraid of what Mueller will find , to try so hard and stop him.
If you want to only recognize part of what is Mueller investigation is about, you can.

George Croix

Jim, that is exactly the problem.
Mueller IS trying to get to a 'truths', while openly ignoring facts, and known issues.....like he's walking right past diamonds because he's looking for gold nuggets.
This is an 'investigation where it was decided that someone was guilty of a crime, then they decided to hunt for some crime he might have done.
In ANY other investigation, there's a crime, then they hunt for who did it.
Note the difference.
Yes, Mueller will continue on, as do all Special Counsels, until the original intent has been lost, due to never proven, and replaced by whatever showed up in other areas incidentally, and also go long enough to make memory of who all REALLY was 'colluding with the Russians' and even with our OWN top people to alter the 2016 election outcome, before and after it was held.....
I am amazed so few care about that...especially comnsidering all the hype about 'failure to accept the results of an election' being a 'direct threat to our democracy'...
The irony of that is that it's the SAME PEOPLE WHo SAID IT, now doing it.....
Hey, the right folks are now in charge in the House to investigate even more ginned up 'crimes'.....while ignoring the ones they KNOW have been committed........
Lot of entertainment ahead........might take two sets of eyes, one set for each face, to see it all............for the 'resistance'....[whistling]

Gary Scoggin

The Russians attacked our democracy. That is a fact. Mueller's job is to get to the bottom of that no matter where it leads. For whatever reason, the President seems bothered by the fact that he, or people he's associated with, were involved either directly or on the periphery of this. So he's doing what he does best when he seems threatened: He lashes publicly at the person he perceives as the threat.

I haven't seen Mueller's report so I don't know what strings he's following and which ones he's not. I'm assuming from the conversation that some people here are different and have a pipeline to the investigation that almost no one else does.

I'm content to let Mueller do his job, present his report and then we can judge. Because remember the main thing here: The Russians attacked our democracy. That is a fact.

Carlos Ponce

"The Russians attacked our democracy. That is a fact. Mueller's job is to get to the bottom of that no matter where it leads He was at the "bottom" last year. There was ads on Facebook, etc attacking Trump, promoting Trump, attacking Hillary, promoting Hillary. There was NO collusion discovered on Trump's part. Hillary ..... that's a different matter. Her campaign bought and paid for a dossier created by Russians through Steele. But Mueller won't go there.

Jim Forsythe

Until Mueller releases the final report , we do not know all of what he has been working on. We do have some idea, because of the ones that have been charged, but he probably has not release most of the info.
If you are not in favor of investigations, what would you replace them with?

I disagree with "Mueller will continue on, as do all Special Counsels, until the original intent has been lost" as my take Is that it was spelled out in the beginning. You and Carlos do not agree with my take, as I with yours.
If you read the original text, when Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller to serve as special counsel for the United States Department of Justice you will see were it includes what Mueller was to do which included "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation" which is what he has done."any matters that arose ' gives Mueller a wide range in his investigation.
In this capacity, Mueller oversees the investigation into "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated what Mueller was to the campaign of President Donald Trump, and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation"
To me this is straight forward and clear , but does not seem to be for you and Carlos.


George Croix

And Barack Obama attacked our demcracy, also a fact (by virtue of KNOWING the Russians were, but doing NOTHING so that it wouldn't mess with Hillary's chances.
And James Comey attacked our democracy, also a fact.
And Hillary Clinton attacked our democracy, also a fact.
And the DNC attacked our democracy, also a fact.
And other Top Folks at FBI and DOJ attacked our democracy, that's also a fact.
Yet, the folks so adamant about finding some connection between Trump and Russians and democracy attacking IGNORE THOSE FACTS, as, so far, has Mueller......
Here, you've got KNOWN crimes, and KNOWN perpetrators of them.
What Mueller's doing is looking for some crime to hang on someone who has already been declared guilty....of something or other....,
So, how about walk ya'lls 'attacked our democracy' talk, and complain about that, too, and demand a special counsel investigation, too....

Not holding breath............

George Croix

ps:
That's disingenuous Gary, to say that nobody knows where Mueller is following...there have been so many leaks out of that investigation, and such eager MSM slobbering for some crime or anything they can hang anywhere near Trump, that anyone paying attention knows who's getting indicted for tax fraud or some ancillary issue from years if not decades ago, and the only 'Russians' connections have resulted in 'indictments' for the same things the Russians have been doing at every election we've had for years...now, important because Trump won, and Hillary lost, so the only way to cover up HER DIRECT collusion with Russians via paying from HER CAMPAIGN for dirt, phony dirt, on Trump via the 'dossier' is to get the other dishonest hacks at top levels of government to do what they did....appoint a man to hunt for a crime that can be hung on someone accused of one....exact opposite of due process........
As sharp as you are, you know that, so stop pretending otherwise.....

Gary Scoggin

I still have more faith in our Justice system than I have in our President. Time will tell. And the Russians will still attack us. And people that drink the President's Kool-Aid don't seem to care. But I'm giving up on discussing this here. I'm tired of beating my head against the wall. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Jim Forsythe

Anyone in charge can ask for a investigation. But as of now, we have the investigation that Mueller is heading. The Republicans had control of all three branches, so they could have done a investigation into any of the things you listed. It must not been at the top of their list, because it did not happen. They have only themselves to blame, if they did not get what they wanted done. If someone does not get what they want done from Senators and House members, vote against them, send letters, call or visit them in DC.


Carlos Ponce

"we do not know all of what he has been working on."
COME ON, Jim! You don't know what he's been working on?????? Based on his "indictments" you KNOW that's a lot of stuff that has NOTHING to do with collusion. Based on his "indictments" you know he's moved on and is grasping at straws.

George Croix

Dodgeball it is, then...............

George Croix

That's probably the best advice given so far here, Gary.
Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. And all.
What a great country we live in...even with all the crap, the good stuff is still way yonder and gone more than the bad....

Jarvis Buckley

It's cold , rainy, windy- Trump is to blame.😂

Jarvis Buckley

Or is it Bush's fault😂

Christopher Fluke

All I got from reading this is the hyper political sides that people are on. Nitpicking the President, and the counter responses, shows only that the sides are firmly in their camps and not wanting to talk about real issues. I'm not saying real issues aren't discussed by some but that this type of nitpicking only helps polarize the sides.

Every President does things people don't like and many of it ends up hypocritical, such as calling out Obama for his Golf trips but not doing the same for Trump, and vice versa. Does it really matter? Not really. The only thing that matters is the policies and appointments made by the parties, and the actual outcomes of those.

There is plenty of real issues we need to talk about, but Presidents standing in the rain at a ceremony is not one of them, so let's all stop nitpicking whomever is the President and focus on real issues and try to come together on things we can agree on, otherwise this is just turning into a family feud that people don't know why they hate the other side.

Gary Scoggin

Good luck with that, Christopher. Nitpicking and hyper partisanship are what the GDN forums are all about. Just pretend you are listening to conservative talk radio.

George Croix

Or watching The View or Morning Joe........ [beam][beam]

Gary Scoggin

Yep. Or Fox and Friends

George Croix

I don't watch F&F for the same reason I don't watch Hannity....the script is the same each show.....
I don't watch CNN or MSNBC because it hurts my chest to laugh without stopping for a half hour.........[beam][beam][beam]

Gary Scoggin

Sometimes I watch Foxand Friends so I can get the same security briefing as the President. CNN is incapable of covering more than one story at a time. And it’s often the wrong story.

Carlos Ponce

Gary do you have the Oval Office bugged? According to WAPO, "Trump has opted to rely on an oral briefing of select intelligence issues in the Oval Office rather than getting the full written document delivered to review separately each day, according to three people familiar with his briefings."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/breaking-with-tradition-trump-skips-presidents-written-intelligence-report-for-oral-briefings/2018/02/09/b7ba569e-0c52-11e8-95a5-c396801049ef_story.html?utm_term=.f203dfe92b4a
If you get the same Security Briefing as Donald Trump you must either have the Oval office bugged or be in the Oval office. (Are you the cleaning lady?) Either way, the Secret Service would like to talk with you. You've got some 'splaining to do.[wink]

George Croix

That was a pretty funny, one Gary....I don't care who ya are.....
Not quite accurate, but funny anyway....[beam][beam]

George Croix

ps:

That aside, Christopher is exactly right about need.
The start would be BOTH Parties accepting the results of a legal election, and going forward...as so many have advised is the correct thing to do......
The realities right now are that the Democrats WON the House back...they won it large, too.
The Republicans retain the Senate, and maybe...maybe...yet to be determined, pick up one or two seats, and retain the Presidency.
Does no good to argue about THAT...it is what it is......
The nation should move on and try to get things done as possible.

The nation should.....

But, I doubt that will happen.......

Jarvis Buckley

Our Son is a marine corps Veteran.
I can tell you for a fact . He supports President Trump & is very proud what he's done for our military & our Country.

George Croix

Gary, not a matter of being smarter than Mueller, whatever that amounts to.
Just a matter off not being as dishonest.....

Gary Scoggin

It amazes me that you guys think Muller is a partisan hack. The guy has an impeccable record of public service. We don’t know a fraction of what he does about this matter yet we feel free to second guess him before he’s done.

Carlos Ponce

"The guy has an impeccable record of public service." Really? Only in the Liberal mind.

George Croix

As a 'you guy'. I didn't say Mueller's a partisan hack, Gary.
And his past record looks to be sterling.
I said he's being dishonest about not looking at and requiring info from KNOWN parties involved DIRECTLY with 'Russian interference', which was THE reason for his appointment - find and identify Russian interference in our election ......
If he IS doing that with those other people then where's the reporting on that in the last 2 years???
Almost daily for months we heard about 'Trump's connection' to people under investigation, yet Mueller is close friends with THE guy who was at the top of the food chain on the FBI senior leadership's phony 'dossier' pushing and subsequent FISA warrant collusion.....so, it doesn't matter, not a connection, when your own close friend is that guy???
HOW is that second guessing.

Benedict Arnold was a war hero before he was a traitor......
Bill Cosby was "America's Dad' until he was found not to be.....

Using the 'he's always been great' defense sometimes gets tripped up.....

Carol Dean

More liberal FAKE News. Nothing new here.

Charles Hughes

!Wow! Seems like this one really touched a nerve on the talking heads.

George Croix

And the snipers...and the cheap shotters...and, my favorite, the one internet tough guy who managed to prove that he was exactly what he accused others of.....
Can't fix that guy.....[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Christopher Fluke

George, not sure who you a referring to, but if you are referring to me, I'll be more than happy to respond.

George Croix

Which ones? The snipers? The cheap shotters? Or the internet tough guy?

Anyway, since you asked, no, not you specifically, but, go ahead and respond if you want.
I don't care one way or another.

George Croix

ps: another ps....

George Croix Nov 16, 2018 10:56am
ps:

That aside, Christopher is exactly right about need.
The start would be BOTH Parties accepting the results of a legal election, and going forward...as so many have advised is the correct thing to do......
The realities right now are that the Democrats WON the House back...they won it large, too.
The Republicans retain the Senate, and maybe...maybe...yet to be determined, pick up one or two seats, and retain the Presidency.
Does no good to argue about THAT...it is what it is......
The nation should move on and try to get things done as possible.
The nation should.....
But, I doubt that will happen.......

Hmmmmm....I thought I remembered a compliment, versus a condemnation....

I await my comeuppance for it............

Carol Dean

"Move on, Jim Forsythe. You are arguing way out of your "pay grade". If you believe in Fairy Tales, then possibly you might find out that your hero, Mueller, doesn't always win and live happily ever after.

Jim Forsythe

Carol, Mueller is not my hero, he is a man doing a job he was ask to do too the best of his ability. You may think that all the facts have been put on the table, but none of us know what Mueller has found. Maybe you think we should ignore anything to do with Russia, but I do not. No matter what you, or others think of the investigation , it will proceed until it has concluded, or the President or someone else stops it.


Carlos Ponce

The job Mueller was assigned was finished LONG TIME AGO. Maybe you like WASTING millions of Tax dollars, but I don't.

Jim Forsythe

Mueller still has some work to do. You may not agree with what he is doing, but he will complete his work.
If the President does not like the job Mueller is doing, he can stop him.
If you read the original text, when Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller to serve as special counsel for the United States Department of Justice you will see were it includes what Mueller was to do which included
"any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation" which is what he has done."any matters that arose ' gives Mueller a wide range in his investigation.
In this capacity, Mueller oversees the investigation into "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated what Mueller was to the campaign of President Donald Trump, and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation"

Carlos Ponce

"Mueller still has some work to do." Stick a fork in it. It's DONE!
And if Trump were to try to stop him Jim would be screaming "OBSTRUCTION"!
So you're saying Rosenstein is responsible for this fiasco and miscarriage of justice. I agree.
But you left off the key component of Rosenstein's directive:

By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Attorney General, including 28 U.S.C. §§ 509, 510, and 515,in order to discharge my responsibility to provide supervision and management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian governments efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as follows:
(a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice.
(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confinned by then-FBI Director James B. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select
Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
Much of what Mueller's team is investigating has NOTHING to do with "coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump". Why? Because there wasn't any!

Jim Forsythe

Mueller is doing what his job is, and when he us finished he will be done, unless someone stops him.
Included in Mueller's work, "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation"; which is what he is doing.
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;

When Mueller is finished we will see where the "matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation" ties together with the facts.
Unless you have insider knowledge of how this ties together, you are guessing.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, you're ignoring the word "and":
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals
associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
Mueller was just supposed to look at possible collusion between Russia and Team Trump. He did that, found NOTHING, and expanded his role. MISSION CREEP!

Jim Forsythe

You have your opinion and I have mine. No matter what, the investigation will go on, unless someone stops it.

You can pretend that "(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;" is not part of it if you want, but it still is part of it.

Carlos Ponce

The new attorney general will put an end to all witch hunts.

Gary Scoggin

Ivanka misusing emails. Lock her up!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/19/politics/ivanka-trump-personal-email-account/index.html

Carlos Ponce

Was there any TOP SECRET or CLASSIFIED information in those e-mails?????
No.
Was the server set up in a bathroom or basement????
No.
Did Ivanka DELETE any e-mails?????
No.
The Law: "The Presidential Records Act requires all official White House communications and records be preserved."
To comply with the law, "Ivanka Trump turned over all her government-related emails months ago so they could be stored permanently with other White House records."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ivanka-trump-used-a-personal-email-account-to-send-hundreds-of-emails-about-government-business-last-year/2018/11/19/6515d1e0-e7a1-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html?utm_term=.bbaeba55687b
And "her email use was different from that of Clinton, who had a private email server in the basement of her Chappaqua, N.Y., home. At one point, an archive of thousands of Clinton’s emails was deleted by a computer specialist amid a congressional investigation.
'Ms. Trump did not create a private server in her house or office, no classified information was ever included, the account was never transferred at Trump Organization, and no emails were ever deleted,' Mirijanian said.
All taken care of. Now Gary is grasping at straws."
Hillary claimed there were no top secret e-mails. LIE.
Hillary's staff used "Bleach Bit" to make certain the contents of the e-mail server were removed. They used hammers to destroy her cell phones.
IS THERE ANY COMPARISON????????
NO!!!!!!!!!

George Croix

Gary, the forum troll job is already taken by the usual suspect.....
[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

George Croix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRRRLApWOE0

Carol Dean

Move on, G.Cros, that was truly a "dumb" statement. Hope you didn't lose any sleep coming up with that one! Carlos just happens to be very well informed on the state of our world. Whether you agree or not doesn't matter because 99.9% of the time he is CORRECT! Happy Turkey Day!

George Croix

No.
That wasn't an 'in the know' comment, seeing as how you are totally off base with it........

Try again.....paying close attention to who said what, and who replied to whom, etc.

Or, I could simply correct you politely, but, that would spoil the direction you wanted to go in, so.................[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

George Croix

ps:
Here's a clue:
I didn't say anything about or to Carlos......

No charge.

Carol Dean

George, there was a message posted by a C. Gros that I tried to reply to on my computer. My comment was not directed at you. In fact when I went back to respond to the comment, there was nothing on the site here. Sometimes posts show up at a later date. In other words, I was NOT responding to your comment.

ps. No charge

George Croix

Well, heck...what a waste of a perfectly good set of rejoinders [beam][beam][beam]
I love it, Carol.
What are the odds???!!!!!
Since my last name means cross where they eat frogs, I figured I'd had a bad influence on you and you suddenly couldn't spell any better than I can.......

Hmmmmm......maybe I was intentionally set up....[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Have a nice Thanksgiving.

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