In the Declaration of Independence there's a list of unalienable rights. The first one listed is life.

In 1973, the Supreme Court ruled that life is no longer an unalienable right.

Robert Hart

Hitchcock

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(44) comments

Steve Fouga

How's that? [whistling]

Carlos Ponce

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." That's how, Steve. But that was 1776. In the Fifth Amendment - "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law". "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" in the 14th Amendment. There is no due process in an abortion, only death. What is a person? That baby, even in the mother's womb has its own DNA, similar but not identical to the "mother".

Steve Fouga

So you probably oppose the death penalty. Those people also have unique DNA.

Gary Miller

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty,or property without due process of law. Tried, convicted and killed is due process of law. Unborn citizens are denighed due process of law.

Steve Fouga

Oh, okay, so it IS purely a legal question with you guys, and not a moral one. That's good. I would hate to hear that you were in favor of legislating morality.

Carlos Ponce

"So you probably oppose the death penalty. Those people also have unique DNA." Steve, the death penalty comes after trial and conviction by a jury of his or her peers. That's called DUE PROCESS. There is no due process in abortion - just a death penalty. And comparing the life of an innocent to a convicted killer is not a good comparison.

Steve Fouga

Oh, okay, so it IS purely a legal question with you guys, and not a moral one. That's good. I would hate to hear that you were in favor of legislating morality. I think bringing the abortion argument into the realm of the purely legal pretty much eliminates the possibility of using moral arguments against such relatively mundane propositions like legalizing marijuana and gambling in Texas.

Bailey Jones

Don't worry. I expect the Supreme Court to put the government back in control of women's wombs any day now.

Robert Waggoner

The women already have control of their womb and the choice, unless raped, to have sex that got them pregnant. What's lacking is the rights of that person in the womb, born or not.

Gary Miller

Bailey. All the court can do is return the issue to the states.

Dan Freeman

Neither the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence mandate that a woman bear a child. An embryo is not a child. A fetus is not a child. They are the responsibility of the woman that holds them in her womb, not the government. Anti abortion laws are an extreme example of government overreach.

Anne Reiswerg

77% of anti abortion leaders are men. 100% of them will never be pregnant. But if they could get pregnant, abortions would be available on every corner in every city across America.

Carlos Ponce

" 77% of anti abortion leaders are men. " - you are just repeating a false statement put out the Pro-Choice Public Education Project and appears on posters. There is NO DATA to support that assertion.They made it up. It's a LIE.

Anne Reiswerg

Yes Carlos - 77% is a lie. The correct number is more like 85% or higher.

Carlos Ponce

85% -that's just made up too. There is NO DATA, NO REAL SOURCE to support your statement. Another LIE!

Steve Fouga

I don't understand why the percentage matters. Most of them are men.

Carlos Ponce

"Most of them are men." "Men, Women Generally Hold Similar Abortion Attitudes" - In a 2018 Gallup poll, they found 19% of both men and women say abortion should be totally illegal, 31% of women and 26% of men want abortion to be totally legal and 42% of female college graduates want abortion to be totally legal. No data as to the Pro-Life leaders but based on the 19% Men, 19% Women who think it should be illegal I'd say the numbers are equal. I don't believe in polls because they question more Liberals than Conservatives, more non-religious than religious so these findings are probably skewed to the Left, non-religious. https://news.gallup.com/poll/235646/men-women-generally-hold-similar-abortion-attitudes.aspx

Steve Fouga

I thought this was a discussion of leaders, not rank-and-file. BTW, I'm not pro-abortion. I would never suggest that a woman get an abortion. But I feel the decision should be left to her.

Carlos Ponce

"But I feel the decision should be left to her." I see. The "sperm donor" is relieved of all responsibility. "Wham, bam. Thank you Ma'am" as they used to say. the man assumes no responsibility. A lot of men will call on you for a witness in their paternity and child support lawsuits.

Steve Fouga

That's right, it's up to her. My advice to her would be to consult with the father before making her decision, if she is in a relationship with the father.

Carlos Ponce

"consult with the father before making her decision" You're bending but that's okay.

Dalton Logan

You and many more like thinking people are going to have the opportunity one day soon to stand before our Creator and explain your position on this, God help you and us. Remember, He knew us before we were born. I wonder, may have we aborted the one he sent us to cure cancer, end prejudice or lead the world to peace?

Steve Fouga

On the other hand, things might have been better had Hitler been aborted.

Mike Zeller

and the next Jihadist and School Shooter and ................

Carlos Ponce

Aren't you glad you weren't aborted? Oh, that's right, if you had been aborted there would not be a "you".

Gary Miller

Steve. Some progressives are again comparing trump to Hitler. They should be VERY glad Trump is not Hitler. Hitler would have drained the DC swamp is a few weeks by rounding up the Obama/Clinton senior exitive group and killing all hundreds of them. Trumps courts will let 30 or more of them live out their lives in prison.

Steve Fouga

Non-sequitur. [offtopic]

Carlos Ponce

"An embryo is not a child. A fetus is not a child." By definition there is LIFE in those wombs.

Dan Freeman

The reference to LIFE is a silly statement. The life of plants and animals shape our world. But, wombs are in living women who are alive and have inalienable rights. An embryo cannot survive outside the womb so it cannot have rights. Until the fetus is born alive it has no rights, but the mother's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness come first. The State does not have the right to take away those rights. As for meeting our God, he will judge all of us with love and compassion. Since he knows me, I will not need to explain anything.

Dan Freeman

An embryo cannot survive outside its mother's womb, so it has no rights. A fetus is not a child until it is born a live, so it has no rights. The presence of life is only a statement about an organic origin, like plants or animals. The mother is a human being and has inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. For the state to control this, is to deny her humanity.

Dalton Logan

Good luck with that explanation.

Carlos Ponce

"An embryo cannot survive outside its mother's womb, so it has no rights." "The record for the world's most premature baby is shared by James Elgin Gill, a Canadian man born at just 21 weeks 5 days in 1988. James was born so early that he was expected to die at birth or, if he survived, to have multiple and severe handicaps. James beat all of the odds, growing to be a healthy teenager was known to be heading off to college at the typical age." But Dan Freeman posts James Elgin Gill had no rights and could not survive outside his mother's womb. https://www.verywellfamily.com/worlds-smallest-preemies-2748663

Bailey Jones

Abortion was not uncommon during the time of both the Declaration and the Constitution. (It's as old as people.) The first US anti-abortion laws came about 1820, the first laws with a time limit (quickening) came about 1860. It was only in the 1880's that all states outlawed abortion. The founders were well aware of the practice and could have codified the "person-hood" of a fetus if they had so chosen. Opinions about abortion are deeply rooted in personal belief systems and religion, as such they are best left to the conscience and wisdom of the parents, with input from the medical community and the parents' religious tradition. What's not useful is government intervention.

Carlos Ponce

Bailey, there were a lot of things in America's early days no longer condoned such as slavery, public executions especially by hanging, cockfights, etc. Want to bring them back too?

Charles Douglas

I watched my kid while God was bringing him in this world. It is very foreign to me to think there are those in this great country now, who thinks it is okay to make a baby comfortable after birth ..before killing it and tossing it in the garbage! Like it or not they are here. Life in this country today seems cheaper than I could have ever imagined. The innocent little girl in Houston who suffered major head injuries and wounds to the head and only God knows what else, is a perfect example. What did the Child Protective Services do? They held her for a short time, then put her back in the same environment where the little girl was later killed! Then came the fingerpointing, anger, and blame! Where were the concerns when they would have done some good? The great humanitarian Mother Teresa Bojaxhiu was asked years ago, "Mother Teresa, why don't you prey and ask God for a cure for Aids." Mother Teresa responded, "I did, and he told me that he put the cure in a baby that somebody aborted!" To that I say ,....Thank you Father that the baby that had a cure for Polio was not aborted! Something to think about!!!! Oh Father, one more thing, thank you for a mother who did not abort me! Look what the world would have lost!!

Anne Reiswerg

Like I said...77%.

Dan Freeman

Please write where you saw that quote by the blessed Mother Theresa.

Charles Douglas

I might do that if you write and tell me where you got this: "As for meeting our God, he will judge all of us with love and compassion. Since he knows me, I will not need to explain anything."

Dan Freeman

Paraphrasing Christ.

Dan Freeman

Please provide your source for your statement that 'Mother Teresa responded, "I did, and he told me that he put the cure in a baby that somebody aborted!"' I believe you made it up.

Charles Douglas

And I believe you are making up that God knows you and you don't have to explain to him how you lived your life on this earth, and that you HAVE no accountability for what you do while you are alive!!! Please quote where God said that about you!!! You made it up!!!!!!lol

Charles Douglas

Paraphrasing Smithwigglesworth the great English theologian! You give me more....I might give you more. If you intend to cross me up with the word, you are going to need help.

Charles Douglas

One more thing, God knows everybody, including you, but that is no guarantee that everybody is home free in all eternity with NOTHING to worry about! So we all are free to live as we please or as some man mandates us to live? Sir? I'M done. Got a date to make a donation to some hungry people at an intersection on 45HWY.

Gary Miller

Women have the choice to start a new life. The new life has the right to live. No woman has the choice to end the life she started. Women give up the choice to end a life when they made the choice to start a life.

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