Remember when the Republican Party used to be the party of "law and order?"

Yeah. Good times.

Now they're simply the party of Trump.

John R. Cobarruvias

Houston (Clear Lake)

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(84) comments

Claudia Burnam

Hopefully Trump's Republican party is going to bring law and order to H. Clinton, J. Biden, H. Biden and the slime left in the Justice Dept. and the FBI. E G Wiley

Charles Douglas

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

Dalton Logan

[thumbup]

Gary Miller

Claudia right on> 30+ Obama holdovers with over 200 known felonies between them? Trump must be a law and order President or else.

Jack Cross

You got it right, times have changed. I remember when the democrats were the party of slavery, Jim Crow and the KKK, The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment (1932-1972). The Trail of Tears (1838): The first Democrat President, Andrew Jackson and his successor Martin Van Buren, herded Indians into camps, tormented them, burned and pillaged their homes and forced them to relocate with minimal supplies. Thousands died along the way. Alger Hiss Convicted Of Perjury (1950): Hiss, who helped advise FDR at Yalta and was strongly defended by the Left, turned out to be a Soviet spy.

Fire Hoses And Attack Dogs Used On Children (1963): Birmingham, Alabama's notorious Commissioner of Public Safety, Democrat Bull Connor, used attack dogs and fire hoses on children and teenagers marching for civil rights.

Chappaquiddick (1969): The Democrats’ beloved "Liberal Lion" of the Senate, Ted Kennedy ran off the road into a tidal pool with passenger Mary Jo Kopechne in the car.

The point is why do we want to go down this road, Both political parties have things in their past that are not good.

Don Schlessinger

[thumbup][thumbup]

Charles Douglas

Mr Cross, That was uncalled for. You had no call to go there on a Friday!! No sir, No call ah' tall!!! Hey,...looks like that one landed over the LEFT outfield fence, and busted an auto windshield!!! Now!! See what you've done?[beam]

Mike Zeller

Jack said "Both political parties have things in their past that are not good." Your little rant looks pretty one sided. I think your full of Baloney. Your words and thoughts show me your not some innocent even-minded individual like you pretend to be.

Emile Pope

Then they decided to do the decent thing. Unfortunately the other party hasn’t grasped that concept...

Emile Pope

We’re not talking about the past...

Carlos Ponce

Evident from these hearings today's Democrat Party is not the party of law and order.

Gary Scoggin

Jack, I knew you were old but do you really remember all of those things? 😁

Carlos Ponce

The Republican Party is still the party of the "Rule of Law". Apparent from these hearings Democrat leadership is not. They cannot even follow House rules, changing approved rules as they go. The treaty with the Ukraine signed by President Bill Clinton specifies mutual assistance in criminal activities. Trump was following the terms of the law. President Zelensky has told us several times that there was no quid pro quo. Yet Chairman Nadler and other Democrats call him a liar. Nadler insists Trump held a gun to Zelensky's head. That's stupid even when used as hyperbole. Nadler told us the choice of American President should not be left to the American people. Democrat Congressman Al Green insists on continuous impeachment one after another. This is not what our Founding Fathers wanted in a Republic. They feared impeachment could be politicized as indicated in the "Federalist Papers". And that is going on today.

What's really going on? Democrats fear they cannot beat Trump come November. But is there a chance he'll be removed from office prior to that? No. They think a 24 - 7 barrage of anti-Trump rhetoric will turn the American people away from a successful president. It's had an opposite effect, a boomerang effect. Über-Leftist Liberals who did not vote for him in the first place will continue their hate. People who voted for this president will vote for him again. Independents are moving toward Trump. They do not favor impeachment. Most will vote for him in November.

An analogy from your youth watching "Roadrunner" Cartoons. Democrats are portrayed by Wile E. Coyote - Doofus maximus.

Carlos Ponce

Witness the freshman Democrat Congressmen who live in pro-Trump Congressional Districts. Vote for impeachment and lose favor from their constituents. Vote against impeachment and they suffer the wrath of Nancy. I suggest they vote "PRESENT".

Carlos Ponce

Relying on John R. Cobarruvias to define Republicans is foolhardy. He is a "Yellow Dog Democrat", which is his right but his bias is clear in rants in this paper dating back to 2002. It started on November 29, 2002 with a diatribe against President George W. Bush and telling us that president should not be re-elected (July 12, 2004). On August 16, 2004 he asks us "but are we as a nation, as a society, better off than we were four years ago? The answer is simple." And today the answer is "YES!"

Michelle Aycoth

And he is just getting started.

Reagan did not have the bulk of his success till his second term.

Difference here is Trump is lifting all up not just those at the top.

Andy Aycoth

Jim Forsythe

Yes, this go back to the good old days when the presidency of Ronald Reagan was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials, the largest number for any U.S. president. Do you really want whoever is the President in 2021, to do as Ronald Reagan did?

Some of the things that happened during Ronald Reagan time in office. Iran–Contra affair, Department of Housing and Urban Development grant rigging, Lobbying scandal, Savings & loan crisis, Wedtech Scandal, Debategate .

Carlos Ponce

I can name several dozen real scandals under the Obama administration quicker than you can say "FAST AND FURIOUS".

Jim Forsythe

As of January 11, 2017. (You can add a few more names since that date, that have been indicted, convicted or have a prison sentence.)

Democratic years in office 20: Criminal indictments 3 Criminal convictions 1 Prison sentences 1

Republican years in office 28: Criminal indictments 120 Criminal convictions 89 Prison sentences 34

No party is immune from people doing the wrong thing. Surprised you have not listee more Democrats, as there are many.

President Barack Obama’s Administration :No appointed officials have faced criminal prosecution.

President Bill Clinton’s Administration :Mike Espy—Office: Secretary of Agriculture: Crime: indicted on 30 counts of receiving improper gifts. Result: found innocent of all charges. Ronald Blackley—Office: Chief of Staff to the Secretary of Agriculture Mike Espy. Crime: perjury. Result: Convicted and imprisoned

President Jimmy Carter’s Administration :Bert Lance—Director of OMB. Crime: indicted for misuse of funds during the sale of a Georgia bank to BCCI. Result: acquitted of all nine counts

President Gerald Ford’s Administration :Earl Butz—Office: Secretary of Agriculture. Crime: charged with tax evasion for failing to report more than $148,000 in 1978. Result: convicted and imprisoned

The rest of the Presidents had too many to list.

Carlos Ponce

That's because Democrats COVER UP their crimes.

Gary Miller

Michelle> We are as a nation much better off today than we would have been if Trump had not been elected. We could have done even better if Democrats had worked with and supported Trump trying to keep his promises. National improvement? Fewer Democrats.

Charles Douglas

Mr. Miller, if Trump had not been elected, Israel would have been tormented and backed in a corner by "CROOKED" and the DEMS by now, Tel Aviv would still be recognized as the Capital of Israel as far as America is concerned. African-Americans and Latinos would still be vastly unemployed, and needing government assistance to fill the gaps at an alarming rate! China would still be RIPPING us off for our factories and jobs, and outright overtly stealing out job patents, while limiting our ability to trade with them. China would still be bullying other nations in certain shipping lanes in the high seas! If Trump had not been elected, we would still have NAFTA, and still be paying the lion's share of NATO costs and expenses to make nations like us. We would have no oil and gas abilities, ..no telling what gas prices at the pump would be, and this nation with that BARTENDER from New York, and that Radical from Minnesota, leading the way, would be in the same shape Venezuela is in now. That will suffice for Now! To much to list Everything! Let me just say this, I have lived a long time,...long life I have been blessed with, and I have been through a lot, but there has NEVER been another President in my lifetime who boldly took on the Deep State, Establishmen, Both Parties, and friend or foe, to do for America, this one HAS ALREADY DONE!

Charles Douglas

Oh! Mr. Miller! I forgot one of the most important things which happened because Trump got elected, that is ISIS is not running around on VIDEO talking down to America, pointing a machete at our President before they hack a western citizen's head off, saying " This one is for you Obama, you caused this!" ( Jhardi John, a British citizen ..who joined ISIS wearing a Black mask and clothing said that to Mr Obama. ) last one where is ABU AL BAGDADDIA? Have you seen him?

Gary Miller

Democrats fault the Trump tax cuts because only 75% of citizens got a cut. The 75% were taxpayers, the other 25% were not taxpayers. Almost 100% of taxpayers got some tax relief. Non taxpayers needed no tax relief, they needed the jobs many of them are getting.

Paula Flinn

I’m sure the poor and disabled who got kicked off their Medicaid and food stamps feel “lifted up.” I’m sure the farmers who lost their markets feel “lifted up.” I’m sure if Trump gets another term and passes another tax cut for the rich, and he cuts Medicare benefits for the elderly, we will all feel “lifted up.”

Carlos Ponce

Who got kicked off, Paula? By changing to block grants to states and eliminating bureaucracy money is saved. And farmers are generally pleased with President Trump. They know in the long run they will come out ahead with this president. Read "Why America’s tariff-hit farmers still support Trump"

https://nypost.com/2019/07/13/why-americas-tariff-hit-farmers-still-support-trump/

"Trump Approval Among Farmers Rises to 79%"

https://www.agweb.com/article/trump-approval-among-farmers-rises-to-79

Charles Douglas

I remember our old friend from the good old forum days too!!! He is consistent, ...I will give him that!

Mike Zeller

Good things do happen on "Friday the 13th".

Casey Alan

Unfortunately with this president there are certain people who close their eyes because they don’t want to see the truth. There are really no Republicans left but maybe a small handful the rest are trump groupies who believe in breaking the law and it’s OK only for them.

Carlos Ponce

Best thing to do is evaluate all sources and think for yourself. I'm not a Republican. I'm a Conservative. A subjective look at the "evidence" shows this impeachment attempt is without merit perpetuated by those who sought his impeachment minutes after he took his oath of office. But not to worry, as a CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said, "Trump has already won."

Gary Miller

Carlos> Yes Trump has already won and Democrats are helping him win.

Charles Douglas

Speaking of eye closing, let us not forget the last President and those who supported him... did a lot of the closing of the eyes, including me during his first term! Second TERM? Well I wised up! See, I got caught up like many others did with that "FIRST IN THE HISTORY THING!" I could not deny what I had to do his second run at the Presidency though. He EVOLVED to much from what he campaigned on. Probably was the plan all alone. He could have been a phenomenal person of history, but he settle to just be a name in history. He could have been another Jackie Robinson, or MLK. Anyway, we closed our eyes when he violated the constitution by signing into law DACA! We closed our eyes when we watched him interfere with national elections in Israel, by using public funds to send a group of Americans to undermine and make sure BB NETANYAHU, did not return to office. ( He did ) We closed our eyes when we watched him go to Great Britain and publicly tell it's people that if they voted to leave the European Union, they would be relegated to the BOTTOM of America trade partner's list, and he said it comfortably thinking that CROOKED HILLIARY, would have his back when he had to leave. ( why you think she was crying so profusely in a cradle, cursing everybody, then apologizing to Obama ...who it was said to have called her to get out there to concede the election?) Also, BREXIT was approved yesterday! We closed our eyes to the incident abroad when he thought nobody was listening ..He whispered in a LIVE microphone to a Russian official, "Tell VLAD I will be more flexible after my next run for office!" That was supposed to be on the "COOL" ..but somebody left the microphone powered up! ( What deal was he promising VLAD?)( Think about that Now!). Not long after that, RUSSIA took Crimea from the Ukraine! We closed our eyes when there were more Blacks on Food Stamps and Welfare doing his eight years in office than there were in years, more minorities jobless than there were in many years! We closed our eyes when he GUTTED our military, to almost becoming third rate before Trump took office! I won't even mention that RED LINE IN THE sand, and the changing of his CALCULUS, metaphorical guarrantees he made in SYRIA, which he failed to back up, when the President of Syria used GAS to kill thousands of his own people and Kurds too. I surely will not mention the secret exodus of C130 military planes loaded with STRAIGHT UP CASH, he gave Iran to continually fund terrorists, terror, and terrorism throughout the world. Now, Your Honor, if it pleases the court, the DEFENSE RESTS!

Paula Flinn

You are so misinformed, probably by Fox News, that I cannot see how you can find your way back.

It isn’t so much in the details, but you bought into everything Trump has said, from branding Hillary as “crooked” to stating DACA is unconstitutional. From stating Hillary was crying in a cradle (?) to mis-stating the facts on President Obama creating more jobs than the previous GW Bush Administration.

There are some of us that support Israel, but do not support Netanyahu. Apparently the people in Israel don’t like him, either. Some of your statements are outright lies. The cash he “gave” Iran was Their Money! It wasn’t “given” to fund terrorism throughout the world, as you said. You just abound in mis-statements, innuendoes, and conclusions about President Obama. Maybe he could have worked with Putin after the re-election, but we will never know because the Republicans put the worst possible spin on that incident with the open mike. Now we have a President who does everything in his power 24/7 to make Putin happy. And Müeller found many cases of Obstruction of Justice by Trump. Some Republicans are in denial about the violations to the Constitution he has committed. Just because the economy is good for most business people, it doesn’t mean that it is improving for the middle class, the elderly, or the poor. There is a huge discrepancy in what this last tax cut has done. It hasn’t improved the lives of the middle class or poor. The worst thing is his treatment of children at the border. That’s a travesty and a tragedy.

Carlos Ponce

"stating DACA is unconstitutional." Obama thought so too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t53EBSqlLIc

Both Obama and Trump want Congress to pass Comprehensive Immigration reform. But Paula sees this as a negative for Trump. No rational thinking here......[rolleyes]

Carlos Ponce

" branding Hillary as 'crooked' "

Hillary was ordered to turn over 33,000 emails. She deleted them.

Hillary was ordered to turn over Blackberrys. She had them smashed by hammers.

Hillary was ordered to turn over her private server. She had Bleach Bit applied to delete any information.

Hillary Clinton was responsible for the debunked Steele dossier to make up lies used in a FISA request to investigated Donald Trump's campaign.

"Clinton campaign, DNC paid for research that led to Russia dossier"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/clinton-campaign-dnc-paid-for-research-that-led-to-russia-dossier/2017/10/24/226fabf0-b8e4-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html

There is no doubt about it, Hillary Clinton has engaged in criminal activity. Why isn't she in jail? Patience - she'll get there.

Carlos Ponce

"It wasn’t “given” to fund terrorism throughout the world, as you said."

From Leftist Politifact:

"Secretary of State John Kerry said in an interview: Kerry told CNBC’s Squawk Box in January 2016 that Iran could spend the unfrozen assets however it wanted.

"I think that some of it will end up in the hands of the IRGC (Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps) or of other entities, some of which are labeled terrorists," Kerry said. "To some degree, I’m not going to sit here and tell you that every component of that can be prevented."

John Kerry disagrees with Paula Flynn.

Charles Douglas

[wink]

Randy Chapman

MAGA in 2020![thumbup][cool]

Charles Douglas

Ms Flinn posted> "Maybe he could have worked with Putin after the re-election, but we will never know because the Republicans put the worst possible spin on that incident with the open mike. Now we have a President who does everything in his power 24/7 to make Putin happy. And Müeller found many cases of Obstruction of Justice by Trump."] You don't have to "maybe" about Obama, VLAD, &Crooked working together, because it was obvious they were! They celebrated it by exchanging a red button mounted on a base, to solidify their working together covenant! Now as far as Mueller is concerned it was a miscarriage of justice to even allow him to masquerade as a special counsel to do that investigation. He could not even speak coherently at the hearing they had for him to explain the what, why, and how he came about his findings, or conclusions, and on top of it all he loved Trump so much he did NOT REFER not one charge to the Justice Department! I still say Obama, had no business meddling in Israel's elections and surely had no business involving himself in or trying to tip the scales in Great Britain's BREXIT Business! That is the same thing yall are trying to Frame Trump for Now!!! Lastly ...I want to say this, yall have had your one sided shot at Trump. SCHIFTY SCHIFF, ..and San Fran Nan, leading the way! Now, when the Senate takes over, ..just sit quietly while we punish those who betrayed this country! You guys have not layed a glove on Trump, and he will continue to be our President. I would urge you to stop watching that underrated News Network, with the low ratings, call the CLINTON NEWS NETWORK, at least the one I watch is the highest rated News on Cable. [beam]

Charles Douglas

Me. Flinn posted> "The worst thing is his treatment of children at the border. That’s a travesty and a tragedy." ] Those cages at the border are the handiwork of Mr. OBAMA before Mr. Trump came into office. You know I remember a few years back at a "roast ceremony" of some sort and in the audience, sat one Donald Trump, private citizen. Well sir, on the stage sat the President of The United States, Barack Obama. OBAMA took issue with something somebody printed about him which was attributed to Trump, and he spoke a sharp rebuke of Trump, and then said the following, "..And even it all this was true, at least I will be able to say I WAS PRESIDENT." ( Then he dropped the Microphone hard on the podium, and rolled his eyes at Trump with discuss!). See, sometime people can poke the bear with a stick,....and he will just keep laying there. Then again, IF That bear is a counter-puncher, he can get up ...run for President and tear down everything you tried to do by out performing you at every turn!!! Morale and point? Make sure you properly identify the right Republican Bear you poke with a stick![wink]

Carlos Ponce

In case some Liberal readers think Charles Douglas is not telling the truth about the cages built during the Obama administration please read this Liberal Huffington Post article dated 06/16/2014: "New Photos Depict Horrific Conditions At Border Detention Center"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/border-detention-center-photos_n_5501167

The photos taken by Democrat Representative Henry Cuellar (D-TX) first appear in the Houston Chronicle dated June 11, 2014. Note to the clueless: This is 2 1/2 years before Trump took office.

"Photos show logjam of immigrants detained at government facility"

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Photos-show-logjam-of-immigrants-detained-at-5544928.php#photo-6434559

Jim Forsythe

If the Conditions At Border Detention Center are horrific, does it matter when it started? Does it make it right because Trump is not the first? Is it right to denying flu vaccines to immigrants in custody, when physicians offered to provide free flu shots to detainees. Is it right that some CBP facilities didn’t have access to showers, that some cell's meant for 35 hold 155 adult males with only one toilet and sink. If your answer is yes, that all this is OK , it shows your compassion for humans.

Charles Douglas

It's not that Jim, and you know it. It is that the LEFT hates President Trump with a passion, and the fact that he is succeeding in policies he campaigned on. It is about those who get on this forum who says nothing about every, secret, dishonest thing the Clintons and Obama did in office but systematically try to assassinate President Trump in anything they disagree with! It is not going to work, and anybody with eyes to see, should know this by now. Considering all those against Trump, including the Deep State, and the Fake News Media, Trump should have been out of office long ago, but he is still here. Allow me to give my opinion WHY he is still here. It is because you CANNOT hurt who GOD is HELPING, and you CANNOT curse who GOD is BLESSING!

Jim Forsythe

The posts were I responded to were about how bad Obama was for placing kids in cages. If it was bad that Obama did this, is it right that Trump continues this practice? If Obama was wrong, how can anyone justify what Trump is doing?

The question is, is it right to have kids in these conditions?

This is not a left vs right thing, but a human condition thing! Do you consider it a blessing that humans locking kids in cages?

You talk about God, is this type of conditions what Gods wants for his children?

Gods children are not only USA citizens.

jimmy winston

Jim you seem to be the only person in here capable of making sense.

Carlos Ponce

"does it matter when it started? Does it make it right because Trump is not the first?" Yes, yes it does since those actions were investigated by Democrat Representative Henry Cuellar in 2014 and found legal by the Obama Justice Department. Trump simply asked Border officials to follow the law and since those actions were deemed LEGAL by the previous administration - carry on those practices. Jim must have found it OK in 2014, 2015 and 2016 since he raised NO CONCERNS in those three years BT (Before Trump). It shows your compassion for humans.[innocent]

Jim Forsythe

If you say Obama was wrong to treat kids like that, but you are OK with Trump doing, makes your stance one way. Obama was wrong and so is Trump.

If you believe that what is going on now is right," It shows your compassion for human"

The question to you, are you Ok how children are being treated now? Not is it legal to treat them this way, is it right!

Carlos Ponce

Jim posts, "If you say Obama was wrong to treat kids like that, but you are OK with Trump doing, makes your stance one way. Obama was wrong and so is Trump." I never posted either was wrong. They took an old Wal-Mart and created a safe zone for children using cyclone fencing - the same type used around schools and homes in this country. What I point out if the hypocrisy of the Left finding fault for Donald but not for Barack when doing the EXACT SAME THING, same facilities.

Jim Forsythe

Are you OK with Trump doing this? By posting the link to the pictures, you were saying that it was wrong for Obama to do that. Otherwise you would have not posted that link. This is about what you think and not what a party thinks!

Did you find fault when Obama did it? Do you find fault that Trump is doing it?

Again this is not what a party thinks, but what does Carolos think now, today, and not in the past.

Take a stand and state how you fell about the kids in cages. Is this how you want them to be treated?

Charles Douglas

Mr. PONCE, I must inform you that SHOT sailed over the far left outfield wall into the parking lot! It references, and represents the hippocrosy associated with the feckle, smelly, smear campaign being waged against the President continually by the PROGRESSIVE LEFT.[thumbup]

Jim Forsythe

Trump has a history of hiring illegal immigrants, that goes way back! Even while he was going on about how bad it was for illegal immigrants to be here, he was still employing them. Trump characterized immigrants from Central and South America as "barbaric," as rapists and even as killers of children. If that was true , why did he hire illegal immigrants? If he truly believed they were that bad, why was he endangering anyone going to one of his properties by his actions of using illegal immigrants?

Jim Forsythe

"Feb 08, 2019: While other top-tier golf U.S. courses adopted the federal government's E-Verify system to check the immigration status of potential hires, the Trump Organization is only now planning to implement it throughout its properties - even though then-candidate Donald Trump claimed in 2016 he was using it across his company.

Amid Trump's push for a border wall, there has been little public discussion of how U.S. employers - including the president himself - have generated demand for unlawful workers."

“While working at Donald Trump’s estate in Bedminster and interacting with the President and his immediate family, they were repeatedly subjected to abuse, called racial epithets and threatened with deportation.” “Ironically, the threats often came from the same supervisor who had employed them despite knowing their undocumented status, and even provided them with forged documents. This toxic environment was designed to intimidate these women, leaving them fearful for their safety and the safety of their families.”

Charles Douglas

Is America great or what? God is too! The Apostle Paul was barbaric until he got a revelatation to start doing things right. So what you are railing about of things in the past don't wash! In America you get to participate, to vote against what you DON'T like in a candidate, but that right extends to every other citizen too. Obviously those operating in our chosen political system don't put a lot of weight on the past and neither do I. The Great Apostle Paul said in Philippians 3:13-14...."Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended; but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are BEHIND, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, v14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of GOD in Christ Jesus." As I stated before, I see the plan being used to smear the President, and it is being deployed all over America, even in this forum. It just is not, and will not work! Apparently Mr. Trump has been selected, and anointed at just such a time as this,...in history to make a difference and like Cyrus The Great in Isaiah 44, and Isaiah 45, to serve God's purpose! Now, Your Honor......If it pleases the Court, the Defense rests.

Jim Forsythe

The question is, is it right to have kids in these conditions?

This is not a left vs right thing, but a human condition thing! Do you consider it a blessing that humans locking kids in cages?

You talk about God, is this type of conditions what Gods wants for his children?

Gods children are not only USA citizens.

Carlos Ponce

Look at schools in this county. We keep kids behind cyclone fences! OH THE HORROR! THE HUMANITY! Oh, it's there to PROTECT them? But Jim finds fault when done when Trump was president but not when done when Obama did it.[rolleyes]

Jim Forsythe

Trump is wrong, just as Obama was.

How many kids per square foot per student are allotted for the students keep behind cyclone fences at schools. In some cases at the boarder, its as few as 4 square foot per child. Are the students kept 24 hours a day behind the fence?

Do we keep school children day and night with out basics needs? Do we make them to be unable to see their parents, because they have been separated from them.

Are we using common human needs that children need at the detention centers? Do they get to leave at night and on the weekend? Unless they both are treated the same, you can not compare the two groups.

Carlos, are you really trying to compare kids at school with kids in cages?

Carlos Ponce

It's a cyclone fence enclosure, Jim.

Jim Forsythe

Do we keep school children day and night, with out basics needs? Do we make them to be unable to see their parents, because they have been separated from them.

Are we giving common human needs that children need at the detention centers? Do they get to leave at night and on the weekend? Unless they both are treated the same, you can not compare the two groups.

Carlos Ponce

Was Jim there during the Trump years to see if basic needs were met? Church leaders were there and said basic needs were met. Rev Samuel Rodriguez toured the same facility AOC reported on. "We found no soiled diapers, no deplorable conditions and no lack of basic necessities," Rodriguez said. "We toured the entire facility."

Charles Douglas

And there goes Jim trying to help Obama, hurt Trump, with points scored at the expense of kids! Okay Jim you want to know about God, and care about his thinking on kids, then you force me to inquire, concerning the following: If you care so much about kids, then why are you not speaking out against the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, and the Left's support of murdering kids in and out of the womb? Kids are kids right? A follow up question is WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD THINKS ABOUT IT? It is easy for a person to champion abortion, when they themselves we're not Aborted or killed! You might as well know I think It is hippocrosy at the highest order!

Jim Forsythe

As 7 Christian Denominations do not have the same Stance on Abortion as you do, is my answer. I have belong to two of these Denominations and both are mainstem Denominations . As the churches I have belong to believe it is a woman's right , so do I. I do not ask you to believe as I do. but understand we have different views. Just because I believe that's its a women's right, each must make up there mind what is right for them. I would never require someone to have a abortion, and would not support it, if it was not right for them. As more discussion about this will change anyone's believes ,that's all I have to say about this.

Charles, do you believe that the children are being treated the way you want them to be, at the boarder?

Carlos Ponce

It doesn't matter what denominations think of abortion. What does matter is what Jesus Christ thinks. All one has to do is read the Bible to discover what He thinks. Thou shall not kill......

Jim Forsythe

"It doesn't matter what denominations think of abortion"

You do not honor other churches beliefs?

The churches I have belonged would not have forced you to have a abortion, but they were OK with a women that did so.

If you have ever had to make a choice, to save one by aborting the other twin, you might have a different view.

Carlos, do you go by your churches teachings, I do.

Your answer should be of course I do, which is the same as my reply.

If you want to debate ones churches beliefs vs. another, start a thread.

Not all churches teach the same message and that the reason for different churches.

The different churches I have belonged to did not say other churches are wrong.

Nothing make one churches beliefs wrong, and the other ones right.

A number of churches, including United Church of Christ, Episcopal, Presbyterian (USA) and United Methodist, do not approve of abortion as a means of birth control. However, they support the right of a woman to obtain an abortion, if she deems that is the best choice in her circumstances, and they favor keeping abortion legal. Other churches, including Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist, oppose all abortions and favor making abortion illegal. Here is a sampling of official church positions from the three largest denominations in the U.S

Carlos Ponce

"You do not honor other churches beliefs?" No, I obey the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ "

Matthew 7: 21-23

"I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other! So because you are lukewarm— neither hot nor cold— I am about to vomit you out of My mouth! " Revelation 3:15-16

Any church who promotes abortion is not of Christ.

Jim Forsythe

"Any church who promotes abortion is not of Christ."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Catholic church allows Unintentional abortions and indirect abortions? This means that they allow some abortions, but not all.

Some churches allow no abortions no matter what. Is your belief right or is the churches that allow no abortions, no matter what, right?

Is the church that allow not blood transfusions wrong. Each church has it own beliefs and should be respected.

Carlos Ponce

"Unintentional abortions and indirect abortions" are called MISCARRIAGES.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, it does not matter what the "churches" say. Their leadership is answerable to God.

Jim Forsythe

"Unintentional abortions and indirect abortions" are not MISCARRIAGES and are not allowed by some churches. Both are procedure that are done, and not a miscarriage.

No church should tell another church what they are doing wrong. Each interpret the Bible the way they believe, and live the way the are taught.

Protestant Bible, Catholic Bible, Torah, Anglican Bible, Greek Orthodox Bible and other holly books do not contain the same text. Some of these Bibles include more books than other Bibles. Each may have a different message, but all strive to do the same thing.

.Believing your faith is the only one correct, is not what religion is about.

By saying that other faiths are wrong about abortion because your faith does not allow it, is not respecting others that believe different than you.

Carlos Ponce

"Unintentional abortions and indirect abortions" are not MISCARRIAGES". WRONG!

"Miscarriage Definition:

Miscarriage means loss of an embryo or fetus before the 20th week of pregnancy. Most miscarriages occur during the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. The medical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion."

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/miscarriage

Carlos Ponce

And it's GOD who's correct, not anyone's religion.

Jim Forsythe

So is your Bible the only one correct or maybe the differences is what the group that goes to a certain church agree with, because of that churches teaching. Your churches teaching are what right to you and other churches teachings are what's right to them.

I did not say anything about spontaneous abortion. Both were not spontaneous abortion. If your family has ever had these three things happen, you would know the difference.

Unintentional abortion-- remove the uterus or fallopian tubes of a pregnant woman. The death of the fetus is an undesirable but unavoidable consequence.

Ectopic pregnancy procedure - is the removal of the tube containing the human embryo. The death of the human embryo is unintended although foreseen.

Some churches do not allow Unintentional abortions or Ectopic pregnancy procedures, because what their leaders say is right for them..

Carlos Ponce

Miscarriages or Spontaneous abortions are the only "unintentional" abortions. Those you describe are consequential abortions resulting from a medical procedure the woman and her doctor are fully aware of.

Any Bible, KJV, NA, Standard Version, NAV, Good News etc is good. It is when some people mix their religion of secular humanism with Christianity that problems arise. Abortion on demand comes from human secularism, not Christianity.

Charles Douglas

First of all, Jim I did not ask you what different kinds of denominations thought nor what they practice. I asked you about a life concerning a child, just as you did me and I asked you WHAT DID YOU THINK GOD THOUGHT ABOUT THE ABORTING AND KILLING OF A CHILD, IN AND OUT OF THE WOMB! I did not get honest answer in my opinion. Now as far as the border is concerned, I believe the LEFT And Pelosi along with Crying Chuck, is as much or more responsible for anybody in a bad or deplorable condition at the border, because while it all was happening they did NOTHING but point their fingers of disgust and accusations at the Republicans who were trying to manage an all out assault on our borders! In such an event, like war, there will be casualties of innocents! The DEMS had the power to help change the laws, situations, and the plight of the astronomical amount of refugees, and illegals from around the world illegally breaching our borders, and they choose to standby and do NOTHING, as they pointed the finger of blame, .....and you still did not give me a straight answer.

Jim Forsythe

As I stated my beliefs are not what yours are, because of what I have been taught at church. We are not going to agree . You do not believe in a woman having a choice and I do.

So your answer to, do you like how the children are being taken care of at the boarder is? This has nothing to do with Trump, Obama, Pelosi ,Chuck but with you.

Do you agree with how they are being cared for? All this about Abortions, which has noting to do with the care of the ones at the border.

If you are satisfied with the care they are receiving, I understand your position.

Carlos Ponce

I get it. You put humans over what God wants.

Jim Forsythe

My response was to Charles, about the children at the border. This is about human to human.

If you want to talk about the church and God, start a tread about that.

Carlos Ponce

You brought up church, Jim. I just responded to it with my opinion. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Charles Douglas

Which is worse, bad treatment, of a child, ...or the out right KILLING of a child? Your Honor.....

Charles Douglas

How many kids are caught up, and loose their lives because of gang wars in LA, CHICAGO, DETROIT? OH that's right we can't care about American kids, inside our borders just those coming illegally crossing our borders ...that right? Don't hear yall complaining about Black and Hispanic kids in deplorable conditions in the DC Ghettos!!! I forgot, they don't matter right? We need to put the spotlight on any and every adverse issue with the potential to make DJ TRUMP look bad right! Jim I would expect that from several on this forum, but not from you and 3-4 more Liberals on this forum. Yes we are on opposing sides politically, but with me there is a measure of respect I possess for those who have the wherewithal to be fare. Yes, I criticize Obama, Bush, Clinton, Big Bush but unknown to some I have voted for each of them at least once! So if they disappoint me, ...all I have is my vote, and my prayers for things to be better in this country, even for kids....ALL OF THEM!

Jim Forsythe

"OH that's right we can't care about American kids, inside our borders just those coming illegally crossing our borders ...that right?" No, caring about one group does not prevent caring about others. I can be concerned about what happens in Hitchcock and still be concerned about what happens in the rest of the world. We, all of us, make decisions on what to do about the less fortunate than us. Sometimes the best we can do is demand that our politicians do something. If nothing has changed in the DC Ghettos,LA, CHICAGO, DETROIT since Trump has taken office? You may be expecting a president to change what is happing in these areas, when it is a local problem. Has anything changed in those types of areas in Galveston county, or is it worse?

Jim Forsythe

Is the bad treatment of children OK with you? You, Charles?

Charles, do you believe that the children are being treated the way you want them to be, at the boarder?

That's a simple question that does not have to do with abortion. If you want to debate abortion , start a different thread.

But the debate would be, is one region right, and the other one wrong. What I believe is you can choose your church, but do not condemn others because of the ones they choose. Not all churches believe the same, but should be respected for there beliefs.

Charles Douglas

Jim you are not giving me nothing here. You are asking a question ..to answer a question. Why don't you just admit a bias toward President Trump and be done with IT! You did not vote for him, I get IT! However, you and I know that the Deep State, along with the CIA , FBI, AND THE NSI, and everybody else in DC has been plotting to get TRUMP from the day he was elected, ...you know or have reason to know this. Nancy Pelosi admitted it a while ago on late night TV, saying to the host, "We are not rushing the impeachment process, hey we been trying to impeach him for more than two years!" BINGO!!! On top of that they are known to have marshalled forces to set Trump up, and had a plan "B" ...ready to go IF HE GOT ELECTED! They had a fake investigation into Crooked's disposal of over 30 thousand emails, handed out immunity deals like candy, and did not interview any of them under oath! Now you tell Me! I count you as an honest man, ....was that fair? Was it an honest effort at the truth? There is a strange thing happening in this country, where nobody gives a #&% about the citizens here, but are head over heels concerned about people coming in here illegal from around the world. I read the Book of REVELATIONS, and other bible prophesy, so spiritually speaking, I know exactly why we are now seeing what we are seeing in this country and in the world.To bad others cannot. I still say if you are going to act so appalled about illegals' treatment at the borders and their kids' treatment, ...at least show compassion for kids being killed in the womb, and those laying on the table being made comfortable, until they are killed!! I want you to think about that! For the record, let me be blunt, ..AND IN I DON'T GIVE A "RIP" about what some denomination think! I don't have to answer to a denomination. I have to answer to GOD ALMIGHTY. I would hope it is the same with you, but if not, then let it be known that this is one place where we will always differ.

Jim Forsythe

Charles, I answered your question about abortion, that you and I believe different because we are of different faiths.

Abortion has nothing to do with the children on the border

As I said, this is not the way they should be treated, regardless of who is President.

If we treat the children on the border the same as now, when we have a new president,it will still be wrong to me. How about you, are you OK with the treatment of the kids now and if the new president treats them same as now, will it be OK with you?

So, unless a different denomination thinks like you,what they believe is wrong!

Charles Douglas

Good evening,... I done here!!!!

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