The right loves to talk about freedom and liberty, but are they really about one or the other?

The answer is no.


(49) comments

Bailey Jones

Mr. David - [thumbup]

Craig Mason

Carlos must be asleep.

George Croix

You’re right, John.

That’s why conservatives riot and loot and burn and assault when something upsets them, and try to cancel or even ruin the life of people who don’t toe their line. And their suppression of voters caused voters to to turn out in the highest numbers ever in 2020. Those darn conservatives also want to attack innocent peoples rights when a criminal commits crime, and they restrict the freedom and liberty of lawbreakers by putting them in jail rather than putting them right back on the street.


You pegged ‘em.

Attaboy….er, attaboys….

Not a movie theater in the country can project like that…


Charles Douglas

Oh Oh Mr. Croix> There you go again! You just can't resist subjugating the vicious, unrelenting lies and false accusations coming from the Party of Slaves, Abortion, Infanticide, Conspirators, Open Borders, WOKENESS, and Traitors! You can't seem to resist responding to those who attack the unborn, & the born by sending baby formula to the.illegals, while American babies who missed their abortion attacks,... die for lack of baby formulas! How about those who want to teach Racial Hatredness in our schools, those who want to teach kids the intricate skills of Sex & Gender change behind the backs of their parents? ( Yes Sir, they want parental control over somebody else's children! )

How about those who systematically want to keep African-Americans, & Hispanics Shanghaied by keeping the majority of them in bad producing schools and living in the Hoods, and Ghettos of America in order to reap their votes for political power? I don't blame you though, because I am ecstatic that the many posters on this forum, like yourself have the wherewithal, intelligence, & the words to support this country, and Righteousness in a world of Deception, Conspirators, Evil, and Confusion! [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup].

Thomas Carpenter

Quick Queequeg, a harpoon. The great white is about to breach!

George Croix


domenico nuckols

Nailed it !!!!!

Carlos Ponce

"They wouldn’t suppress voting rights." True, they don't.

George Laiacona

Very good article. The truth has always been here and has been distorted by the Republicans because the religious zealots tells them just what to do. There once was an amendment to end prohibition , there once was an amendment to give women rights, that too has been distorted. There once was an amendment to insure equal rights to all Americans, that too has been distorted. What is the use of having amendments if the traitor Republicans are allowed to distort their meaning

George Croix


Evidently, all the video evidence that the usual suspects are fullovit is manufactured on a secret movie set and sound stage in the Mojave desert by Fox News.

Baghdad Bob is alive and well....

Loved the race baiting.

David Hardee

George, we need to speak brutal truth. The tongue in cheek (chuckle) is beyond comprehension for the simpletons.

The article and author is dead serious with his delusion. When the BLM burned the cities it was a peaceful protest until that kid showed up and in self defense killed and maned those that wanted to reason with him by way of a bullet and bat.

The Kid was tried in a jury of peers and acquitted. The resemblance to the Jan. 6 commission's inquisitions does not penetrate the void where a mind was supposed to reside.

As to the intrusion on personal lives it is the fruit and nuts of the liberal progressives that are reaching into our pants and trying to massage genitals and imagination to resemble the perspective at that moment.

As to voting rights the author surely put his ballot in the winning Biden column and is enjoying his just deserts. If the Dems get anymore voting right for us we will be able to get a ballot for our pets and surely the garbage disposal will qualify as a member of the Democratic Party voting block.

This article makes freedom any act that an individual or group finds useful at that point and time, i.e., Mutilate a fetus or crush a skull if it dares to exit the birth canal - or freedom to steal, no bonding or incarceration for a criminal, and come on in the country for a all these freedoms of food, education, medical, transportation, compliments of those American citizen that actually pay taxes.

The Republican inhumanities are all summarized by the brutal requirement that you should exert effort to earn it - or for the comprehension of a simpleton "there is no free lunch."

Aside from a criminal act if your pregnant you earned so pay for it.

If you want a ballot either qualify to have it delivered or go get it.

You earned that self inflicted addiction by being a pathetic member of society so earn your way back into society by self inflicting the cure- plenty of support exist if you want it.

Conservative will help if you ask and the liberals will create an excuse for you and enable you to continue on the destructive path without shame or effort on or by you - our their pandered pawn - they feel , need and use your pain to support their existence.

George Croix

David, I'll add one more point that we may agree or disagree on.

Referring to the opposition as personally 'simpleton' IMMEDIATELY shuts down any remote chance of exchange of ideas.

Deader than a door nail.

There are enough people in these forums and others cheerfully convinced they are superior beings and everyone else is unintelligent and dumb as a box of rocks, and they'll tell you....quick.

In doing so, they want to start an A hole contest...let them win that.....

People, all of us, do and say stupid things but it doesn't mean we're stupid...just each different....

Argue the ideas and the talk...avoid self- superiority....

Life teaches us that some of what should be the most capable are not, and vice versa...

David Hardee

George - I have no argument with your critique of "simpleton" use.

Where do you want to place the effects and results of a undeniable tragedy. Is ignorance fair, or negligence, or failure of research, or any of those terms or descriptions that the PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL declare caused by SOCIETY thus not shame or blame is affixed to anyone or any act. The VILLAGE has such broad encompassing that nothing is definable ergo there is no way to apply a correction.

Every application for improvement, or even the negative applications are so encumbered with - is IF, AND, or BUT to fit a segment's agenda (with the segmentations being in conflict as it biased) that all and any dissertation end in a circle jerk.

Here is my conclusion - a serious direct recitation on any singular issue, will likely develop, a or may responses, that will result in rejoinder's that will be diverted with tangents, quips of sarcasm, supposings, and calls for divine (God - religous) intersection, etc..

So again I say brutal direct conclusions are necessary, now.

Try this -China is responsible for the pandemic which is rereferred to Covid. Covid is a concocted word to be PERMISSIVE for political agenda. Only a simpleton would not realize that no matter what word is used it is the fault of the Chinese government that it became a pandemic.

Jim Forsythe

I guess I'm a simpleton because I believe that COVID-19 was zoonotic in origin. All pandemics start somewhere, and this one started in China in 2019.

Also, as a simpleton I believe that when Covid reached the USA, steps that needed to be taken, were not. When the 39 residents of Life Care Center, a nursing home in Kirkland, died from complications from the virus in one four-week span we needed to be in the mode of all hands-on deck. Instead, we had our leader on TV, trying to say, it not that bad. After we had a vaccinee, our leader tried to not talk about it on TV and tried not to promote it at all.

I guess I'm a simpleton because I believe what Trump told Bob Woodward about how bad Covid was, and the interview is on an audio clip which one can find, it they want to.

President Donald Trump acknowledged the dangers of the coronavirus pandemic in a February interview with journalist Bob Woodward and acknowledged downplaying the threat in an interview a month later, according to an account of Woodward's new book. Below is what Trump said.

“I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down because I don't want to create a panic," Trump said in a March 19 call with Woodward, according to an audio clip.

In the same interview, Trump acknowledged that the disease was more deadly than he previously thought.

"Now it's turning out it's not just old people, Bob. But just today, and yesterday, some startling facts came out. It's not just old, older," Trump said, according to an audio clip, and then added, "young people, too, plenty of young people."

Since I'm a simpleton I believe no matter how Covid came to the USA, the President is in charge of overseeing that all the resources and support necessary is provided. He is also responsible to promote treatments that are proven to be OK and promote vaccines that have been approved by his and the USA experts.

David Hardee

As I predicted - your the first.

Undoubtable the Virus started in China, right? Your portraying "I believe" it as a " zoonotic in origin" does nothing to change the beginnng place - China - is that to simple to comprehend or do you disput that was China was the first cases in this explosion of that pandemic?

Your digression into a diatrib about Trump comes as a tangent from your consistent agenda to make the brunt of every comment you make. Sick psyche has destroyed all ability to communicate.

Gary Scoggin

Don't worry, David, I'll stay off your lawn.

I agree with the statements that the COVID virus most likely was naturally occurring and came out of China. Regarding the early response of the previous administration, I think it's an irrelevant debate. The virus was so contagious and so widespread that it could not realistically be contained. It was inevitable that mistakes would be made, as it was the worst public health crisis in over a century; nobody had experience in how to manage it. But at the end of the day, any mistakes that did happen didn't change the course of history very much, if at all.

I will give the Trump administration credit in fast tracking a vaccine. Successfully adapting a new technology to this application was a scientific miracle. Providing funding and streamlining approvals made this miracle happen so quickly.

George Croix

Agreed, Gary. Nobody's politics should preclude honest people from recognizing any good they do.

Except I'm not so sure that the virus that nailed us was entirely naturally WAG is that, just as more backtracking to China as the source has occurred, by the very people months ago discounting that, we'll eventually find out that money sent to Wuhan by USA sources was used to dramatically enhance/increase potency of a naturally occurring which point, it's no longer naturally occurring....

Conspiracy theory?

Not many months back, so was any attempt to link to China...

Jim Forsythe

Research is done where hot spots occur. I hope we continue to do research.

US-based EcoHealth Alliance - was awarded a grant in 2014 to look into possible coronaviruses from bats.

EcoHealth received $3.7m from the NIH, $600,000 of which was given to the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Pete Nanos

Mr Forsythe, please tell me exactly what else could have been done about Covid that wasn't done. You obviously have described yourself inaccurately. You fail to acknowledge the lies told to us by CDC and the Biden administration on vaccines stopping the virus or the spread of the virus. You also failed to mention that democrats came out against the vaccine as a Trump vaccine that they would not take. The lies from Fauci on masking. Being simple is fixable, but your's is more of a case of something that can't be fixed.

Jim Forsythe

If you remember, just before the vaccine was introduced the Hospitals, we were overrun with people that were very sick or dying. By being able to give the vaccines to people, this relieved some of the pressure on our medical Facilities. Thanks to a global effort and the new technology of genetic sequencing, which helped in vaccine development in record time. This advancement will help us with future problems.

The virus that causes COVID-19, was isolated in late 2019. Its genetic sequence was published on 11 January 2020, triggering the urgent international response to prepare for an outbreak and hasten development of a preventive COVID-19 vaccine. In 2020, vaccine development was expedited via unprecedented collaboration in the multinational pharmaceutical industry and between governments. By June 2020, tens of billions of dollars were invested by corporations, governments, international health organizations, and university research groups to develop dozens of vaccine candidates and prepare for global vaccination programs to immunize against COVID‑19 infection.

What could have been done, was the President could have received his shot on National tv instead of hiding the fact he receives it. He could have encouraged people to use masks and to receive the shot. He could have ordered isolation of people, when it first came to the USA. He could have listened to the professionals instead of talking about unproven treatments.

Pete Nanos

Mr Forsythe, Thanks for the response on "what more could have been done", but as many liberal accounts of the facts , your response neglects facts that have since been revealed. Those vaccines were available at the end of Trumps term and the entirety of Biden's term, yet more people died after Biden was in office for less than a year. You make no mention of the fact that democrats demonized the vaccine and would not take it (All on tape from several prominent democrats) You have exposed yourself as one of those deliberately dishonest liberals who deals in half truths to try and sell your agenda. "The end justifies the means".

PS you also neglect to mention that the deaths in democrat held states with democrat policies were responsible for the elderly death counts. You neglected to say Fauci lied and said masks were not effective in his first statements. I could take up this whole page with things you neglected to mention in your dishonest rant, but we know why you were deliberately lying. You're a hack for the left.

Gary Scoggin

Mr. Nanos. I’ve known Jim Forsythe for many years and, although at times we disagree on things, he is one of the most honest and forthright people I have ever meant. I wonder why you felt it necessary to resort to personal attacks on his character rather than just respond with facts.

Jim Forsythe

Thank you, Gary, for your response.

Pete as Gary said, you choose to attack me so I will not respond to your beliefs that the vaccine did nothing.

Also, your attacks on Dr.Fauci , one of our top research Dr's is unfounded.

As I said, I will no longer respond to you on this thread.

David Hardee

The positions being taken on Big Jim aka Mr. Forsythe by commenters are synonymous with those in the portion of general public that are seriously concerned with the state and path our society is on, now,

The progressive liberals have been allowed to infect the simpletons in our society with a consistent bombardment of agendas without much pushback. The conservatives were apathetic and passive because they never believe that the was ability of a cabal to be formed from all the malcontents because they had conflict among themselves. That has changed in the Big Tent where the pandering politicians are promising each of the malcontents to give them what they want in entilrment from the nanny state.

Consequently the belligerence and audacity has unleashed with the aid of a media (infiltrated by LGBT), Bureaucrats (swamp creatures) the one sided crescendo of publications on the general public - alike the offering here by Big Jim.

Ergo the rebuttal to his one sided offering deserves a brutal response to him and his message. Stop the one sided miss leading that affects the simpletons and we can have what is debate on the issues. Until then these proliferators with intent to indoctrinate the influenceable are enemies in a civics war. Kids introduced to CRT and Gender confusion was the straw that AWOKE the apathetic from their belief these malcontents could be united. At stake is the better hope of humanity. Dammit!

Gary Scoggin

David, your views towards simpletons, malcontents, and others you feel are inferior to your enlightened, wise state have been noted. But I appreciate that you include actual rebuttals and facts in your replies.

David Hardee

Gary, I seemingly cannot convey a context without making specific definitions on almost every summation of representation I use. Simpleton is "a foolish or gullible person" and in the context of polotics and more specific VOTERs the term incorporates (not my inferiors in any other context than voters) those that do not or cannot devote the time, effort and respect for their ballot that will produce a vote for other than the - popular as portrayed in the media - pools - name recognition - and being a FIRST - instead of a critical review of the experience and the achievements of the candidates. To round out the definition there must be knowledge of the not only the candidates personal history but the civic related results of the platform of the candidates party affilaton at that time. The "a foolish or gullible person." is a vote of bewildering value and has the result of a unforeseen circumstances.

Reflect on the nowhere Obama as phenomena, Reflect on non-politician Trump as an anomaly of tradition. Cross reference them to a Eisenhower or Clinton.

Two were from scrifted appeal and sentiment and the others were known for achievements and results. The simpleton density in our population is at level we are at the mercy of those with the megaphones media and power to inject their (the one sided presentations we are commenting on) agenda on those " foolish or gullible persons." Voters.

George Croix

David, you'll have as much luck changing a mind totally locked in and seeing what nobody else in the room is seeing right in front of their eyes as you would reversing the rotation of the Earth.

This is true, imo, of all.

It takes a significant, personal emotional experience to reverse The Truth as we've chosen to see it. Personal. A hit upside the head that then CANNOT be denied.

Examples: You've got people right now declaring that the economy is great and the border secure, until they start digging into savings. Mayors complaining about overloaded homeless shelters, after they championed open borders. Green energy advocates who get on TV and preach they WILL eliminate fossil fuels, then get in the limo or private jet, or don the polyester clothes and flip flops.

Flip side, you've got people refusing to accept the reality that our Constitution provides that a candidate elect, once sworn into office, IS the office's holder. Doesn't matter after that, for the associated time period. That think climate change is not real, which it is, versus the POLITICAL 'crisis' climate change...which is a scare tactic. That don't acknowledge the value of alternative energy sources to go with fossil fuels use.

Whatcha gonna do?

Ghost Busters can't help.

Like at the voting booth, the ones in the middle decide the winners.

That's true on this, too....job is to get the swing to swing the way you want...

Pete Nanos

Mr Croix. I really don't care how long you've known Mr Forsythe. We have allowed deliberate liberal dis information to go unchecked for way too long. Time to call them out every time they attempt to mislead readers. If he's so honest let him speak for himself and answer for the obvious misrepresentations he puts out. You liberals are quick to become defensive when it's your ox being gored. Where are you when the shoes on the other foot?

Gary Scoggin

Mr. Nanos - I think you are the first person ever to accuse George Croix of being a liberal. Perhaps you confused him with me instead. But to your point - your inability to rebut Mr. Forsythe with facts and only insults speaks to the weakness of your ability to make your case. Who's being defensive now?

And I proudly have shoes on both of my feet.

George Croix

I've been called worse than liberal, Gary....

Well, almost...


Gary Scoggin

There are some folks around here that consider “liberal” as the worst possible insult.

George Croix

Well, I never heard part of THAT before.


George Croix

Pete, would you disallow the First Amendment?

That sounds like exactly what the Mary Poppins of Disinformation was supposed to do before she flamed out, and our President looked like an even bigger horses patoot for it all.

Jim DOES speak for himself.

I didn't tell you what HE thought.

I told you what I thought of him, and the subject.

I can't even get mad at something this so off base....

Pete Nanos

Mr Scoggin you obviously did not read the reply or you would know that I responded with facts deliberately left out by Forsythe. No doubt about where your shoes are . It's your head that's in question. Liberals are all about distraction and you are no exception.

Gary Scoggin

Bless you heart, Mr. Nanos.

George Croix

One last question, Pete.

Do you think I gave a spit what political party the guys working with me and backing me up during process unit upsets and unscheduled shutdowns and emergency responses to fires and explosions were in? Where at all of those places we were inches away from a real bad problem..inches...not in an office or behind a keyboard somewhere.

One who is not an utter ideologue learns that none of us is always right, that respect is earned, not bestowed, and the respect of people unlike us is even harder to get and give because we have to focus on the issue, not the politics.

Some succeed at it.

Some don't.

Pete Nanos

George, I'm sure the people you worked with were very impressed and respectful of your expertise in your work environment. We're talking politics here and if you're dishonest in your representation of facts as it pertains to politics or anything else, you probably didn't have the respect of half the people you thought you did. You just had a job to do and you did it. Having different opinions is one thing. Deliberately disregarding facts is another. Have an honest belief in face of ALL the facts and you earn respect. Misrepresent the facts to further an agenda and you don't.

George Croix

If you'd care to explain just exactly how you deduce I've been dishonest in my political viewpoints and postings it might be a little more useful than a shorthand version of I'm ugly and Mom dresses me funny (a neat trick, she having passed 40 years ago...).

I'm intrigued....

Like, for instance, what's my 'agenda' I'm furthering by misrepresenting what facts, which is evidently you think an anti-conservative agenda?

Got me stumped there, Pete.

I'm all ears....for now....

Pete Nanos

George, my original conversation was directed to Mr Forsythe. Those who chose to intercede in his behalf, either did not properly follow the conversation or disregarded it all together. HE was the one I was referring to as having left out key facts to further his agenda. My only beef with others is that you jump in to defend the indefensible. He decided early on to disengage and I fully understand why. He attacks with half truths and made up facts.

Fauci Lied about many things (The original lie was on the effectiveness of masks)

Trump did the best he could under the circumstances

The CDC lied about the efficacy of the vaccines

Democrats were the original vaccine deniers (Not if it comes from Trump..all on tape)

It's like I told Mr Forsythe, I could fill this page with lies from the left.Including the ones he subscribed to.

George Croix

Thanks for getting back Pete.

I agree with all four of those bullet points you just made, btw…

Actually, Trump accomplished a near miracle related to COVID vaccines, all while being impeached by characters who wouldn't know truth from cow flop, thus explaining their desire to toss the latter at anyone who’d listen…and in so doing deflect from their own selves…

Worked, too….that along with ‘emergency’ voting rules changes in 2020, quite convenient, and an MSM going dark on a scumbag son and his daddy’s connections got Biden most of his votes, imo. But I personally refuse to believe that carried the whole day for the worst President now in the history of polling. I say Trump beat himself in part …he ALWAYS chose cage fighter over statesman approaches, which is not bad, except when it is. Good when we’re telling enemies and frenemies to go pound sand. Bad when it overshadows otherwise positive accomplishments that benefitted just about everybody in the country at one point or other, but the combativeness just to be doing so, the taking of the constant baiting, gave the sorry A excuse for MSM ‘journalists’ ammo to lie even more than normally, and influence so many who like to be influenced. In short, many all around were just flat worn out by the daily, no hourly, drama, and wanted a change from that, and believed the complete BS that Biden was ‘moderate’.

Look what THAT got us. I fully believe that if Trump had been more ‘Presidential’ we’d not have this worthless excuse for an Administration now, and a return to the Carter years….or, even the New Normal, as the boss of the person now REALLY running the country, referred to his exercise in ‘progressive’ screwing up.

My agreeing with some things my old associate Jim says, whether he includes every detail of the COVID mess or not, does not mean I’m on anybody’s side but my own… when I totally disagree with him, or anyone else, on any given subject, I state that, too…

Neither action is a defining moment in my basic political philosophy….it’s a snapshot in time..just jawboning in an insignificant chat room.

If that makes me ‘liberal’ to some, I don’t care, but it sure as heck isn’t ‘misinformation’…

BUT, to help out anyone who maintains the L word fits me, OK, try this…I NEVER want to see DonaldTrump decide to run for any elected office, ever again.

It sucks, but that practically guarantees the actual L side wins, as betting against the instant replay always does. I personally want those Trump-like policies and results back, and this current utter loser mess tossed as far as possible, and that can be done without being a constant poop stirrer. If the left insists on starting A hole contests,let them win…don’t get in the game when not necessary.. The press WILL revert to its basic being once this guy’ so bad even they NOW poke at him, is but a bad memory.

He’s a 2 1/2 years to go lame duck…we should put our energy into who replaces him, not replaying the2020 election that is OVER and forever gone…imo, as always.

Ps: Your 9:45 post was directed at me.

That’s OK by me, generally…

It’s been interesting to be a Liberal for a Day….


George Croix

ps: Please note that my daily, usually, actually too often, interchanges with a bunch of other partially bored internet denizens are, with the exceptions of those very few I personally know, just entertainment, when not amusement...just an exchange of opinions and ideas...good, bad , or this simple little GDN hodge podge chat format allows.

While I care about listening to most everyone's opinion at least most of the time, I'm not looking to advance my life's resume and acceptance.

In fact, the older I get, the better I was....!

With apologies for the shameless 'Joe Bidenizing' of someone else's use of that line, because I can't remember who it was....;

C'mom...tell me...maybe you're right, and I've been living the lie all these many years that I'm right handed....


Gary Scoggin

Your mention of getting older reminds of the title of an old book by Joe Namath, "I Can't Wait Until Tomorrow, Because I Get Better Looking Every Day."

That's certainly not my fate. Hopefully it's yours.

George Croix

You kidding?

I haven't improved in looks since the last time we were face to face....

I'm just happy my Grandkids still come close...

So far....


Pete Nanos

My 9:45 should have been directed to Mr Scoggin. I apologize for the error.

George Croix


Nobody’s perfect….grin…

You’ve got the stones, Pete….some here don’ t…

Ted Gillis

Now Joe is reduced to doing those silly Advantage plan commercials with JJ Walker.

I’m so glad I was never famous.

Carlos Ponce

Remember: Statue of Liberty, Big Ben

Charles Douglas

I will say one thing, it has been some years ( many ) ..since I have seen a thread debate ot the intensity, and accuracy, and substance that occurred from the one yesterday with: HARDEE, NANOS, CROIX, SCOGGIN, & FORSYTHE locked in! It was all just right ....was not one bad word mentioned, .....that is correct! Did not see one vile emoji use like some like to use on this forum! Lololo. That was great guys, speaking for myself, I got a lot out of it, and I throughly enjoyed the whole thing,...sure did! Everything was about the situations, and the politicians, and NOT personal toward specific posters! Another thing I like about that debate! [thumbup]

Charles Douglas

Word is out that Red China does not want San -Fran -Nan to take her much publicize trip to Taiwan! Word is also out that for some mysterious reason that this poster does not know, ....why Joe "China" Biden is begging Nancy go!!!!!! Why? Lolololo! Can anyone imagine why?

Well sir, I will tell you why! The reason Joe is uncomfortable with Nancy and other Congress people taking that trip is because he HAS BEEN COMPROMISED BY 🇨🇳 CHINA!!!! They got Joe and his Crackhead son between the proverbial " ROCK & A HARD PLACE!" Maybe you would like that China has a pair of Channel Locks applied to Joe in the right place 😉 order to get what he want,..better! This is why they are buying up choice parcels of land in America wherever they want! It is also why Joe is going to drop tariffs off of goods that Trump put on China earlier. It is why Joe is sending American oil to China while we are paying 4-5 dollars a gallon for gasoline! Looks like to me XI JING is running the American government now, because of greed, covetousness, & stupidity coming from the LEFT! Joe Biden & his crime family has elevated themselves from being average Americans to being Multi-Millionaires in no time flat by selling America 🙄 out!!!!

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