I was absolutely horrified to read that a doctor in Texas City was administering hydroxychloroquine to patients in a nursing home without their knowledge or without either their or their family's consent ("Texas City patients receive anti-malaria drug," The Daily News, April 7). Sounds like something that Josef Mengele would do.

And to do it to dementia patients in a nursing home is unforgivable. Dr. Robin Armstrong has apparently forgotten his Hippocratic oath, which begins with "First do no harm."

Darlene Laakso

Calgary, Alberta Canada

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(61) comments

Stuart Crouch

But he knows Dannie (Goeb) Patrick personally! Texas City just provided the lab rats.

Carlos Ponce

Stuart, referring to residents in a nursing home as "rats" is contemptible.HOW DARE YOU!

Stuart Crouch

[beam]

Carlos Ponce

May God have mercy on your soul.

Sharon Stratman

Carlos, treating them as lab rats is worse.

Stuart Crouch

Take a breath, Carlos. First, upon learning you have a brother in such a place, I will say that I hope only the best for him, and you & your family as we all navigate uncharted waters in dealing with this virus. I would add that your brother was not part of this original conversation. Inconsequential perhaps, but of some consideration, nonetheless.

Now, about my comment. It is a straightforward & common metaphor; I'm not calling ("referencing" as you stated) anyone by any name. To borrow from your own choice of words on here as of late, don't "take it out of context". My comment was directed at how, in my view, those affected residents were being used and treated. Your feeble attempt at vilifying me came up short this time. In the future, if you would like to admonish me for what I post (you do know that these are not 'your' forums, right?) please do so from a more enlightened and accurate perspective. All the best.

Carlos Ponce

Some metaphors are best left untouched. My brother is in a Texas City Nursing Home now identified as having residents with COVID - 19. Dr. Robin Armstrong had my brother tested. Thank God he was negative for COVID - 19.

As for "enlightenment" realize that families of residents treated also read the GCDN and GCDN E-version. They object your metaphor. Think before you post.

George Soros

LOL

Carlos Ponce

"administering hydroxychloroquine to patients in a nursing home without their knowledge" WRONG!

He had their consent.

There were 56 residents at The Resort nursing home who tested positive for the Coronavirus. Of those, 39 GAVE CONSENT to Dr. Armstrong to use hydroxychloroquine according to KHOU TV 11 News in Houston, Texas.

"Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills."

"On Sunday, those 39 patients finished five days of treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Armstrong said no one experienced any side effects."

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-treatment-texas-city/287-7383185c-940c-4cb2-82ea-c4a5ffad3ffb

Darlene Laakso of Calgary, Alberta Canada, you are far from Texas City and don't know the truth.

April 16 marks the anniversary of the Texas City Disaster in 1947 when doctors worked long and hard hours trying to save lives. In 2020 we can add the name of Dr. Robin Armstrong, a doctor who came from nearby La Marque, TX, an honors graduate of La Marque High School which is now part of Texas City ISD, to the list of fine doctors who works hard to save lives. You are basing your letter on a false premise and owe the readers and Dr. Armstrong an apology.

Emile Pope

Except that one died the next day and another had to be taken off the drug. And as far as permission goes...

https://www.click2houston.com/news/investigates/2020/04/14/channel-2-investigates-doctor-tests-controversial-drug-on-nursing-home-covid-19-patients/

Dalton Logan

Garbage

Emile Pope

Being admitted doesn't give the staff the right to do anything to you or prescribe anything they want without your permission...

Carlos Ponce

Read the papers before you sign them, Emile. The staff under a physician's directions can. If no treatment is preferred stay home.

"For a procedure or surgery, Armstrong said he would have contacted power of attorney, but not a change of medication, which happens routinely. Houston Chronicle

Carlos Ponce

Does any drug have a 100% recovery rate? No.

As for permission papers were signed upon admission to the Resort for treatment by the staff and facility physician. Anything short of that you might as well stay home. A DNR is only used in extreme cases where recovery is not possible or anticipated by the doctor.

Gary Miller

Emile. All residents signed a permission release before they could enter the facility. They couldn't live there if they or their gardiens had not signed the release.

Emile Pope

Wrong.

Jim Forsythe

Instead of lab rat, Stuart could have used, guinea pig, subject, experimental subject, test subject, research subject. Which one of these would satisfy you, Carlos?

"Prepare to become a lab rat in your own medical treatment because this is the future of modern medicine, one of the nation’s leading researchers has warned."

"The reason patients are about to become guinea pigs in their own treatment is that scientists are struggling to come to terms with the biggest medical advance of all time — the decoding of the human genome."

Carlos Ponce

"Which one of these would satisfy you, Carlos?" RESIDENT.

My brother was a RESIDENT at the Resort. He's now in a different facility. As reported on KHOU, these RESIDENTS gave permission and have NO side effects.

Emile Pope

That is false and KHOU said nothing of the kind...

Carlos Ponce

Emile posts," That is false and KHOU said nothing of the kind..."

Did you even BOTHER to look at the KHOU web link? They even have video.

"Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills."

"On Sunday, those 39 patients finished five days of treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Armstrong said no one experienced any side effects."

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-treatment-texas-city/287-7383185c-940c-4cb2-82ea-c4a5ffad3ffb

If you cannot admit you were wrong just move on. I've repeated this same link several times. Emile is too lazy to look at it.

Dalton Logan

Get your head out of the sand (or wherever you may have it ).[whistling]

Charles Douglas

I'd like to point out to the author of this Op-ed that she and the nation she lives in would be better served if she would stop vilifying this super smart African-American Doctor for doing a great job under trying circumstances, even treating the patients successfully, ....and raise cane with Communist China for their experiments in biological warfare! They tremble in their boots when it comes to China! China has the BLOOD of all these individuals who have died from this virus on their hands! The intelligence agencies have found evidence that the virus was not the result of a WET MARKET incident in Wuhan China, but originated from a Wuhan Lab experimenting on CORONAVIRUS! It was also discovered that France and America helped China set the lab up some years ago! Crying shame too, because China was not bothering anybody, they had that GREAT WALL UP, ..riding their bicycles, doing their own little thing and what? The rest of the world would not stand it. They saw a chance to make some money! The only thing wrong was China "swindled the swindlers." Now thry are a Super Power Nation, enjoying the benefits of a nation with special status. Word on the streets is Mr. DURHAM, ( Special Investigator ) is getting ready to lower the boom on those in the "DEEP STATE" who tried to dethrone our sitting President elected by the people! ( In the words of my old East Texas Ancestors,....I BE GLAD!!!!!! )

Gary Miller

Charles. I too be glad.

Emile Pope

"Since Armstrong’s use of hydroxychloroquine has become national news, some medical experts have argued that not informing relatives or formally obtaining informed consent, a requirement in a clinical study, should be expected among a vulnerable patient population such as the already ill nursing home residents.

Informed consent — or the right to receive information and ask questions about treatment to make well-considered decisions about care — is fundamental to ethics and law, according to the American Medical Association.

Armstrong has said that some of the patients he is treating were given the medication without that kind of beforehand discussion, either with them or their families, and that it wasn’t necessary because hydroxychloroquine has been in use for a long time, since the 1950s, and is widely used by physicians for off-label purposes on conditions for which it has not been approved."

https://www.galvnews.com/news/free/article_c9e87c36-f471-5b1a-a5c2-4016a5eac1dc.html

"Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills." That statement is totally false and the link provided to support it said nothing of the kind. However the link provided from the Daily News shows that some patients were given the drug without their relatives or themselves being told.

Carlos Ponce

The 39 treated patients gave their consent. Apparently they were cognizant enough to give legal consent without informing relatives.

The key words in the GCDN article - "a requirement in a clinical study". This was not a clinical study since there was no control group given a placebo.

Jim Forsythe

Control groups are not required in a clinical study. In this case, the ones not given the drugs provided a control group.

Carlos Ponce

You contradicted yourself, Jim.

"If a drug is being tested, the control group will frequently be given a placebo. This is done as a double blind test, as neither the healthcare professional nor the patient know if they are receiving the drug under test or a placebo, and don't find out which substance was administered until after the experiment is concluded."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_control_group

Since a drug is being used and what you call the control group was not given a placebo this was not a clinical study.

Emile Pope

The doctor gave drugs to some patients without their or their relatives knowledge or consent. That is horrid and the writer was right to call attention to it.

Carlos Ponce

Jim posts: "Control groups are not required in a clinical study."

The FDA disagrees with you.

Before a new drug or biologic can be marketed, its sponsor must show, through adequate and well-controlled clinical studies, that it is effective. A well-controlled study permits a comparison of subjects treated with the new agent with a suitable control population, so that the effect of the new agent can be determined and distinguished from other influences, such as spontaneous change, "placebo" effects, concomitant therapy, or observer expectations. FDA regulations [21 CFR 314.126] cite five different kinds of controls that can be useful in particular circumstances:

1. placebo concurrent control

2. dose-comparison concurrent control

3. no-treatment concurrent control

4. active-treatment concurrent control, and

5. historical control

No general preference is expressed for any one type, but the study design chosen must be adequate to the task. Thus, in discussing historical controls, the regulation notes that, because it is relatively difficult to be sure that historical control groups are comparable to the treated subjects with respect to variables that could effect outcome, use of historical control studies has been reserved for special circumstances, notably cases where the disease treated has high and predictable mortality (a large difference from this usual course would be easy to detect) and those in which the effect is self-evident (e.g., a general anesthetic).

https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/drug-study-designs

But this is not a new drug but one that been used for decades and is now being tested off label.

Emile Pope

"Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills."

Who are you quoting? Where is the link? Where is the proof? You said that they all gave consent and that is not true. Quoting yourself and providing proof that doesn't exist is garbage.

Carlos Ponce

Emile asks, "Who are you quoting?" Looks like Emile is not paying attention again. I gave it in a previous post found on this page. As a teacher I had to repeat for the inattentive student. So I post again, KHOU TV11.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-treatment-texas-city/287-7383185c-940c-4cb2-82ea-c4a5ffad3ffb

Now pay attention, Emile! Shall I repeat it AGAIN?

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-treatment-texas-city/287-7383185c-940c-4cb2-82ea-c4a5ffad3ffb

Emile Pope

So you are you stating that the GDN was wrong when they stated that the doctor didn't get permission from some of the patients or informed their relatives before administering the drug?

"Armstrong has said that some of the patients he is treating were given the medication without that kind of beforehand discussion, either with them or their families, and that it wasn’t necessary because hydroxychloroquine has been in use for a long time, since the 1950s, and is widely used by physicians for off-label purposes on conditions for which it has not been approved."

https://www.galvnews.com/news/free/article_c9e87c36-f471-5b1a-a5c2-4016a5eac1dc.html

Emile Pope

https://www.click2houston.com/news/investigates/2020/04/14/channel-2-investigates-doctor-tests-controversial-drug-on-nursing-home-covid-19-patients/

"While the "overwhelming majority of them are awake and alert and can actually have a conversation," Armstrong said some suffer from middle stages of dementia. In some cases, HE DID NOT DISCUSS PRESCRIBING THE TABLETS WITH ANYONE AT ALL BEFORE DOING SO. He said it is common for physicians to prescribe new medications to patients without explicit consent from the patient or family members. "It's not required," he said.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/10/830348837/covid-19-patients-given-unproven-drug-in-texas-nursing-home-garnering-criticism

Emile Pope

If you don't believe what your own paper writes then why do you subscribe? It's clear in black and white that the doctor in some cases gave the drug without notifying anyone. And this is stated in other publications.

Carlos Ponce

"Armstrong says he did not need additional consent to prescribe hydroxychloroquine, but he says whenever possible, he did have conversations with his patients about the treatment."

When you get admitted to a nursing home facility you and or the family signs papers agreeing to treatment by the nursing staff under direction of the facility's physician. He had their permission.

Carlos Ponce

Emile posts, "So you are you stating that the GDN was wrong when they stated that the doctor didn't get permission from some of the patients". That is not in the article. You read that into the article. All that is stated is he did not inform relatives.

Carlos Ponce

Emile, in a hospital or in a nursing facility you can agree to a DNR -do not resuscitate. If you do not want any treatment just stay home and let nature takes its course. Save the hospital bed or nursing home room for somebody else.

Emile Pope

"Armstrong has said that some of the patients he is treating were given the medication without that kind of beforehand discussion, EITHER WITH THEM OR THEIR FAMILIES, and that it wasn’t necessary because hydroxychloroquine has been in use for a long time, since the 1950s, and is widely used by physicians for off-label purposes on conditions for which it has not been approved."

Carlos Ponce

"For a procedure or surgery, Armstrong said he would have contacted power of attorney, but not a change of medication, which happens routinely. He said the first group of nine patients being treated with the drug finished their five-day treatment on Wednesday and are stable. None of their respiratory problems have grown more severe, Armstrong said, addressing one of the most serious complications of the virus." Houston Chronicle

Repeating, when you get admitted to a nursing home facility you and or the family signs papers agreeing to treatment by the nursing staff under direction of the facility's physician. He had their permission in writing.

Emile Pope

So now you admit that some of the patients were given the drug without their permission or knowledge. That's a start. At no time did any of the patients sign an agreement allowing a doctor to give them any anything the doctor wants without getting permission or notifying anyone. That isn't done.

Carlos Ponce

He had permission, knowledge is a separate issue. Part of the admission process to a nursing home facility requires much paperwork including permission for the staff to treat under a doctor's direction. The paperwork is there for each patient treated.

Kelly Naschke

I ABSOLUTELY love watching Emile embarrass himself time and time again. God Bless you Emile!

Gary Miller

Kelly> It is great fun watching Emile be the wrong 100 % of the time. He must try hard to never be right by accident.

Gary Miller

Emile> Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills." All the 39 did. 17 others did not.

Gary Miller

Emile> Can you believe that you and GCDN reporter are wrong.

Paula Flinn

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/amp/Treatment-of-COVID-19-patients-at-Texas-City-15194710.php

Emile Pope

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

Carlos Ponce

"Larry Edrozo was initially told by an administrator at the nursing home that Helen would not eligible for hydroxychloroquine treatment because she was not showing symptoms."

So they did talk to him about it before treatment. Larry Edrozo is a good man and knows that the staff is trying their best to help his mother.

“But then I want to ask them, ‘What if it was your mother, or your spouse or your child?’”

“We don’t want to have her take this medicine but at the same time the medicine may possibly be the only thing keeping her alive,” [Kristi] Doss said.

“Yes, there are some side effects but I’d rather her be a little dizzy and lightheaded than to die from (coronavirus), you know?” [Melissa] Dominy said.

"For a procedure or surgery, Armstrong said he would have contacted power of attorney, but not a change of medication, which happens routinely. He said the first group of nine patients being treated with the drug finished their five-day treatment on Wednesday and are stable. None of their respiratory problems have grown more severe, Armstrong said, addressing one of the most serious complications of the virus."

Emile Pope

He didn't notify them that he was prescribing the drug or get their permission to do so. Which was what the writer was speaking about.

Carlos Ponce

"He didn't notify them that he was prescribing the drug " The hall nurse would inform the patient, "Here is a new drug for you prescribed by Dr. Armstrong to treat your coronavirus infection. We'll be monitoring you for symptoms and taking your temperature as usual so tell us how you feel."

Emile Pope

Simply made up...

Carlos Ponce

Not really, Emile. I've heard similar statements made by the nursing staff about C-diff and other diagnosed problems at several nursing homes. And you?

Carlos Ponce

God sends angels to comfort those who are afflicted with disease and their families. God sends doctors and nurses to care for those afflicted with disease.

God Bless Dr. Robin Armstrong and the nursing staff !

Gary Miller

Carlos> DITTO

Charles Douglas

God bless you Doctor ARMSTRONG, for beating the odds and overcoming those "artificial boundaries"..and "prairie chicken" eyesight inflicted on so many! YOU sir, dared to rise up through diligence, focus, & hardwork in order to become the individual God called you to be! You are not only a great role model, but also a great inspiration to others who are trying to figure out how to escape from behind those same artificial boundaries, which are holding THEM.....back.

Charles Douglas

Hey DOC....I forgot to mention ..your overcoming that proverbial

"Crawfish Mentality" which is instilled in so many individuals.

Casey Alan

I went back and watched the interview. Nothing was said about consent. He said he chose to use this. He also said if the president did not bring it up he probably never would’ve used it. My question still is why didn’t he want the family to know about it. He claims no one had side effects but that’s just his word. And I have to question it.

Carlos Ponce

"My question still is why didn’t he want the family to know about it." The drug is most effective when used early. With 56 patients , 39 wer treated. That takes up a lot of time. And he has more than that one facility to take care of. My brother is in another Texas City facility and they were all tested under Dr. Armstrong's directive.

Have you admitted anyone into a nursing home? I have. There's a lot of paperwork involved. One of them allows the staff to treat the resident under a doctor's supervision. And that includes medication. Surgery and procedures require informing relatives. This is neither surgery nor a procedure.

Terri Abraham

Yes, I had this same discussion with a relative, that when you have a loved one admitted to a nursing facility you sign paper work agreeing to have them treated - medicated - by the doctor/staff.

*One thing though, DNR does NOT mean do not treat. It means if my heart stops or I'm not breathing, do not do CPR. This wasn't addressed in the post I'm replying to but earlier in these comments.

Charles Douglas

You know I was just wondering idly a little, and I find it very strange that a foreign citizen would take the time to gripe in an American newspaper, about a African-American Doctor doing his job to save lives in a country victimized by a dastardly attack from a foreign government using bacteria warfare! More that that this rogue, predator nation is also responsible for people dying in Canada too! I wonder why this individual .could not find it in her heart to be concerned about medical doctor whistleblowers who have disappeared off the face of the earth to be found no more! Whistleblowers who were going to spill the beans on China and the "WHO" ..were taken in custody by China's government, and no doubt are dead by now! It has happened before! People were slow like they are now to realize what happened at Pearl Harbor too, just would not believe the intelligence reports. Why did China move to protect themselves while allowing known infected people to fly out to other nations, including America? They knew what they were working on, and when it blew up in their faces ..they did not want their country to own it nor their economy to take the hit alone! That flimsy [censored] excuse about wanting to show the U.S. they could compete with America concerning virus study does not hold water with me. I believe China was working on a Bio Weapon while the rest of the world was busy kissing their rear end!!!!

Emile Pope

Northern agitator?

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