The reason Trump and Republicans lie about election fraud doesn't hold water is shown in this statistic: More than 230,000 polling places were used in the 2018 general election, according to the 2018 Election Administration and Voting Survey.

That makes it hard to do enough voter fraud to have any effect on an election, and voter fraud will get you a vacation in a federal penitentiary. These poll workers are volunteers from the community, and it's doubtful that they would be part of a mass conspiracy.

Before I aged into mail-in ballots, I would go to my polling place and show my voter registration, sign a book with the name of voters from my precinct and vote. There is not, nor has there ever been, a need for all the BS coming from the far right about voter fraud.

David Detmar

League City

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(39) comments

Carlos Ponce

More gaslighting from the Left.

Carlos Ponce

"and voter fraud will get you a vacation in a federal penitentiary" Not necessarily, David Detmar. Could be just a fine, could be prison or both:

" the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held, shall be fined in accordance with title 18 (which fines shall be paid into the general fund of the Treasury, miscellaneous receipts (pursuant to section 3302 of title 31), notwithstanding any other law), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/20511

Let's see what happened:

"The Michigan Attorney General's Office says 47-year-old Paul Parana pleaded guilty in n Wayne County Circuit Court Tuesday to a 90-day misdemeanor election law violation and was sentenced to 90 days probation. He was also ordered to pay court costs and fees of roughly $1,100."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/canton-man-pleads-guilty-to-misdemeanor-in-voter-fraud-case/ar-BB1cW2nz

Paul got probation, paid court costs of $1100 BUT no prison.

Thousands more charges, some got fined, some got prison, some got probation. But to claim there is no election fraud is ludicrous.

Charles Douglas

Mr. Ponce> [thumbup][thumbup]

Norman Pappous

In Pennsylvania I could have intercepted hundreds, or thousands, of mail-in ballots at any multi-unit residential facility and mailed them in. Thereby not only casting a ballot for someone else, but also negating their ability to cast their own ballot. and because Pennsylvania threw away the envelopes and did not check signatures, there is no way for anyone to prove I had committed voter fraud. This author is ignorant of the 2020 election laws implemented due to Covid.. It's not that voter fraud was undertaken - its that legislatures disallowed methods of detecting it if it was done.

Bailey Jones

I agree with Mr. Detmar. The 100s of voting bills being pushed through Republican legislatures are just the latest evidence of the decay and destruction that Cult45 has inflicted upon the once Grand Old Party.

Gary Scoggin

David. You are correct. Look at all the angst over voter fraud in Texas where Texas AG (and indicted felon) Ken Paxton spent 22,000 man-hours to unearth 16 cases of "voter fraud", all of which were inaccurate addresses.

Unfortunately, there are those who will never let go of the Big Lie: that rampant voter fraud caused Donald Trump to lose the election. This lie is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people and, sadly, it is dividing our country and will continue to do so as long as the former President feels the need to repeat it.

Carlos Ponce

Gary Scoggin is gaslighting. "unearth 16 cases of 'voter fraud', all of which were inaccurate addresses". Those 16 only represent cases in HARRIS COUNTY that have closure according to the Houston Chronicle. There ARE 254 counties in Texas, Gary Scoggin. Harris County is but one county. Those are the only ones that have gone through the cycle with a verdict and conclusion. They are the ones that have been CLOSED. There are many more still under investigation, under litigation, awaiting trial or under appeal. According to the Houston Chronicle 400 cases are still under investigation.

In 2018 " the attorney general’s office prosecuted 97 defendants for numerous voter fraud violations. This year alone[2018], Attorney General Paxton’s Election Fraud Unit – with assistance from a criminal justice grant from the governor’s office – has prosecuted 33 defendants for a total of 97 election fraud violations."

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/work-ag-paxtons-election-fraud-unit-results-arrests-4-members-organized-voter-fraud-ring-north-fort

In another 2018 case of election fraud:

"AG Paxton’s Elec­tion Fraud Unit Arrests Nine Alleged Par­tic­i­pants of an Orga­nized Ille­gal Vot­ing Scheme in Edinburg"

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxtons-election-fraud-unit-arrests-nine-alleged-participants-organized-illegal-voting-scheme

Take a look at one instance in 2020:

"The office of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton announced 134 felony charges were filed against Gregg County Commissioner Shannon Brown and three co-defendants in connection to an alleged vote harvesting scheme involving a Democratic primary in 2018."

https://abc13.com/texas-vote-by-mail-fraud-ken-paxton-in-ballot-gregg-county-commission-arrested/6544331/

And the list goes on. If you haven't figured it out this partial listing already amounts to more than 16.

And it continues in 2021:

"AG Pax­ton: San Anto­nio Elec­tion Fraud­ster Arrest­ed for Wide­spread Vote Har­vest­ing and Fraud" January 13, 2021

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-san-antonio-election-fraudster-arrested-widespread-vote-harvesting-and-fraud

And there's more to come.

The BIG LIE is there was no election fraud in the 2020 election.

Gary Scoggin

Carlos, thank you for reminding me of the number of counties in Texas. Believe it or not, I still remember that fact from my Texas Geography class in the ighth grade. Even if all 400 cases you mention are proven frauds, that number is miniscule compared to the eleven million Texas votes cast in the 2020 election. While everyone wants voting integrity, to fabricate a crisis around this is the true bit of gaslighting going on here.

Carlos Ponce

So how many fraudulent votes are acceptable in Gary Scoggin's book"

My answer: NONE!

Gary Scoggin

The level of inappropriate voting, including fraud, should be low enough as not to affect the outcome of the election. Preferably zero. However, there is a balance between keeping inappropriate votes (not fraud) low and creating obstacles to voting. In any regard, a few hundred votes did not swing the Presidential election.

Carlos Ponce

"as not to affect the outcome" In Galveston County, no problem. In Blue Counties it proved to be a problem. And Nationwide.....[scared] But 6 counties in key states put a false person in office. Just wait and see.

Norman Pappous

Gary, you say "Even if all 400 cases you mention are proven frauds, that number is miniscule compared to the eleven million Texas votes cast in the 2020 election. While everyone wants voting integrity, to fabricate a crisis around this is the true bit of gaslighting going on here."

So the miniscule number negates the desire to ensure greater voter integrity? Because if the miniscule number of fraud means that other things should be concentrated on, then can we discuss the miniscule number of semi-automatic rifles used as an instrument of murder in our nation? Or how about the Covid infection rate in kids under 20 years-old? Do those miniscule numbers mean we can ignore those issues?

Gary Scoggin

Norman, yes. Those minuscule numbers for assault weapon murders and young covid cases mean we should give them much lower priority than many other issues. Just like the small numbers mean we shouldn’t handicap widespread voter access for the minuscule cases of voter fraud.

Gary Miller

Millions of Americans witnessed hundreds of cases of election fraud. Over 400 bills have been introduced in state legislatures to limit election fraud. These bills are the result of citizens urging state government to put a stop to the fraud they witnessed. The pathetic thing is there are people who witnessed fraud but claim there was none because the media says there was none. Believing if the media didn't report it proves it didn't happen.

Gary Scoggin

I see the MAGAs got the memo and continue to perpetrate the Big Lie.

Carlos Ponce

That's not a lie, Gary Scoggin. Election fraud is real and proof is emerging every day.... but not on mainstream media. Stay tuned. Soon the evidence will reach the boiling point.

Gary Scoggin

"Not on the mainstream media" - Which specific sources should we monitor for authoritative reporting? Are they broadcast networks, publications, or YouTube channels? (I know you don't like to give specific answers for fear of being proven wrong, but humor us all and give us one here.)

Jim Forsythe

"Election fraud is real and proof is emerging every day", please post your proof.

Carlos Ponce

Soon the evidence will reach the boiling point.

Gary Scoggin

Carlos - It's unsubstantiated stuff like this that causes me to not take anything you say seriously.

Carlos Ponce

And it's you not taking me seriously that's going to make life interesting once the truth is revealed. I'm trying to think of new ways of saying: SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!

Gary Scoggin

Every time you post I become increasingly convinced that day will never come.

Jim Forsythe

How long is "Soon"?

Carlos Ponce

Oh, Ye of little faith!

Carlos Ponce

How long is "soon"???? SOON! Too fast for some, not fast enough for others.

Norman Pappous

the left screams bloody murder if just one voter is denied their right to vote but is apparently ok with a similar number committing voter fraud.....

Gary Scoggin

If it were just one person being denied the ability to vote and just one person committing fraud, I wouldn’t scream bloody murder. I’d be thrilled. But then I’m not a member of the “left.”

Carlos Ponce

Gary Scoggin posts, "But then I’m not a member of the 'left.' ”

Your posts betray you.

Carlos Ponce

No one legally entitled to vote should be denied that right. The proposed Texas legislation does not deny the right to vote to anyone legally entitled.

Likewise, one fraudulent vote is one too many.Using your convoluted logic, if one person is murdered while another is born, you'd be happy. [rolleyes]

Gary Scoggin

You are indeed the master of the silly analogy.

Carlos Ponce

No analogy, just analyzing.

Gary Scoggin

I can work with that. You are the master of the silly analysis.

Carlos Ponce

No, it's analytical.

Bailey Jones

You're right Norman. The left sees the right to vote as important enough that we want everyone possible to vote - even at the risk of a few fraudsters getting through. The right wants to make sure that not a single fraudster gets through, even at the risk that some citizens are denied their right to vote. It depends on what you value more - voting rights or voting security.

Gary Scoggin

At the risk of sounding like our esteemed colleague from Hitchcock with a bad analogy, I'll ask, Is it worth a criminal going free to prevent an innocent man from going to prison? There are tradeoffs, and even the best intended laws have imperfections. We have to decide where the proper balance is.

Bailey Jones

Gary, to go off topic - this is why I oppose capital punishment - because innocent people are convicted of capital crimes.

I'll add an analogy - gun control. How hard do you make it to get a gun so that everyone who wants one and is eligible can get one, but not a single criminal can? I think that if you applied the restrictions on voting to gun ownership - ID for every gun purchase, registration at least a month prior to purchase, no purchases by mail, very limited venues for purchasing, etc., it would be seen as excessive and oppressive. A common retort is "criminals will always find a way to get a gun, why make it so hard for legitimate gun owners?" It's the same with voting fraud. These are both Bill of Rights freedoms.

One can look at the consequences of criminality in both of these situations. Voter fraud has no effect unless it is very substantial - it's extremely rare that an election is actually stolen by fraud. Criminals with guns kill people every single day.

Carlos Ponce

Bailey posts, "The right wants to make sure that not a single fraudster gets through, even at the risk that some citizens are denied their right to vote." More gaslighting.

Carlos Ponce

Bailey posts, "Voter fraud has no effect unless it is very substantial ...." Problem is Democrats have it down to a fine art and have gotten away with it for decades so even if caught their sentence is light.

Carlos Ponce

From Hispanic Republicans:

More MENTIRAS from the Democrats on "Voter Integrity.

Yesterday the Harris County Democrats sent out an email attacking our elections.

They blamed the evil Republicans that support bills relating to Jim Crow laws and poll taxes. WHAT?? That's strange because only one party has a history of systemically disenfranchising Hispanic voters in Texas...THE DEMOCRAT PARTY. They were the Party of Jim Crow. They were the Party of poll-taxes. Yet, once again, we're watching the Democrats lie, lie and, again, lie to suppress the very people they claim to champion.

Time for some truth! Senate Bill 7 by Senator Paul Bettencourt strengthens our voter laws and helps eliminate fraud -- taking power away from the party bosses who use voter fraud and intimidation to suppress their own community and disenfranchise their own voters.

It wasn't that long ago that LULAC had to sue the Texas Democrat Party for systemically disenfranchising Hispanic voters. You may not remember because this wasn’t something the media wanted to cover. But in 2009 the 5th Circuit Court ruled against the Democrat Party's delegate process as violating Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act in the famous Texas Two-Step case. 2009 was not that long ago and NOW they want the Hispanic communities’ trust. ¡NI PENSARLO!

The Democrat Party has a history of oppression, Jim Crow, segregation, and poll taxes. That is their legacy -- no matter what MENTIRAS they tell. But we know. And more and more Hispanics know -- just look at the 2020 election results in South Texas!

Senate Bill 7 has moved to the Texas House. Show your support for the bill by signing our petition and contact your State Representative to support election integrity! Show the Democrats that WE know the truth and WE will not be suppressed!

https://www.hispanicrepublicansoftx.org

To read about LULAC v. the Democrat Party read:

"Washington, DC – Today a three-judge federal panel headed by Judge Edward Prado of the 5th Circuit Court in West Texas issued an order denying the Texas Democratic Party’s motion for summary judgment and stated that section 5 of the Voting Rights Act applies to delegate selection rule changes made by the Texas Democratic Party. The decision was unanimous."

https://lulac.org/news/pr/texas_two-step/

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