Let's apply some logic to who actually owns the government shutdown. The House approved a spending bill and sent it to the Senate. The Senate didn't approve the bill and sent it to Trump.

If, and when, the Senate approves a spending bill and sends it to Trump and he vetoes it, then he owns the government shutdown.

Until President Trump vetoes a spending bill, this shutdown belongs to the Senate. I don't care which political party you choose to blame; that blame belongs squarely on the shoulders of the Senate. If our congressmen and women had to work with no pay, as many government employees are having to do, this shutdown would be over in a heartbeat.

Raymond Summers

Texas City

Locations

(154) comments

Carlos Ponce

The shutdown belongs to Congress. Trump met with Chuck and Nancy. He brought them candy - Skittles, Baby Ruth, and other confectioneries. He asked Nancy about the possibility of re-opening the partial shutdown. Would there be any money for the wall within 30 days? Nancy said, "No." Okay, "bye, bye".
Nancy's unwilling demeanor of no compromise is responsible for the shut down.
Oh, she did offer him a dollar. She's not taking this seriously.

Emile Pope

Garbage. He said that he was responsible for the shutdown on national TV. Extortion is never right. donald is personally keeping the government shutdown by demanding something to reopen it.

Carlos Ponce

"He said that he was responsible for the shutdown on national TV.:
Fine. Remember the sign on Harry Truman's desk: "The Buck Stops Here." A President always take responsibility for what occurs during his administration.
Remember when Bill Clinton and Democrats fought against a Balanced Budget in the 90s? But now they take credit for it although it was forced on them by Newt Gingrich and the Republicans.
Trump is giving Nancy a chance to get input into wall construction. One way or another it WILL be built. He could declare a National Emergency now and get it done but he wants a joint bi-partisan effort. Already Angel Families are placing the death of loved ones in Nancy Pelosi's hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooEYU301RPg
Rest assured that unless it is bi-partisan, these families will be out in 2020. If another person is killed by an illegal between now and the election rest assured these families will inform who worked for them and who worked against especially if Democrats take it to court.

Gary Miller

MR. Summers seems to forget the bill the House sent to the Senate would have required 60 votes to confirm before sending to the President for signing. All Senate Republicans voted for it, no Democrats voted for it. I therefore blame Senate Democrats for the shutdown.

Robert Braeking

Civics 101 lesson. House originates spending bill. Senate amends bill and returns it to the House. House sits on its hands. Senate owns nothing.

Emile Pope

The Senate won't even allow a vote on the bill. The Senate didn't sent anything to the House. Apparently you know nothing about Civics or facts...

George Croix

Does the Republican Party have 60 Senate votes?
Why, no.....and have not had that for...years.....
7th Grade civics tells us why that's a significant number.
Quoting:
"Apparently you know nothing about Civics or facts..."
Spoken like a subject matter expert...................again...........[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Carlos Ponce

Emile if the bill would go on the Senate floor it would fail. Add funding for the wall and it has a chance of passing.

Emile Pope

And exactly who would vote against the bill?

Carlos Ponce

"And exactly who would vote against the bill?"
Senators who believe in the rule of law, want to stop human trafficking, drug trafficking, sex trafficking, etc would vote for a bill with wall funding.
Of course if you're for drug trafficking, you won't.
If you're for sex trafficking, you won't.
If you're for child trafficking, you won't.
If your campaign financers want workers who work for sub-standard wages, you won't.

Emile Pope

Then let’s have the vote. I want to see the people you’re describing. Let’s expose them. McConnell shouldn’t be trying to hide them from us. What’s he afraid of?

Carlos Ponce

It's obvious who "they" are, Emile. And they will be exposed if necessary. There still is SOME civility in DC.

Emile Pope

So you agree with McConnell protecting these disreputable people? With him keeping the government shutdown in order to protect their identity? Interesting...

Carlos Ponce

The disreputable people you mention include most of the Democrat Party leadership. If McConnell were to point fingers you know what the Liberal media would do. He's giving them time to either mend their ways, come clean as to their motives or give themselves enough rope to hang themselves. It's DC politics as usual, Emile.

Emile Pope

Evidence or just a misguided opinion. And when has McConnell ever protected Democrats? You’re just making things up again...

Carlos Ponce

No, Emile. It's called being informed. But if you really want the scoundrels revealed (and that includes Republicans in addition to Democrats) I'll send word.

Emile Pope

donald and McConnell are at the top of the list...

Carlos Ponce

No, Emile is.

Ron Woody

I can not do this again today!

Carlos, I do not understand how you can do this over and over although I do appreciate your efforts.

Democrats have voted for the barrier before, experts, including former Obama admin, say additional barrieds work and is necessary, no one was ever building a "Great Wall of China", no one ever believed Mexico was going to write a check for the wall (if revised trade agreements help, perfect).

How Chuck, Mitch, Nancy et. al. can look at any Angel Family knowing they have used immigration policy and border safety as a political ploy to raise money for their parties and continually divide the country is disgusting.

This President is one of the people that has worked for a genuine solution for two years. He has been torpedoed by members of both parties more than once.

Why is the guy that has been there for two years getting blamed when the ones there for 40 can not even pass appropriations?

Emile Pope

The Senate refuses to vote on a bill to reopen the government. This deception being to justify this behavior doesn't change anything. It just shows how misinformed people are...

Ron Woody

Mr. Pope why do idividuals who have voted for border barriers/infrastructure/security previously in amounts larger than $5 billion refuse to do so now?

President has been consistent in his actions and statements to defend and protect our country. The others of both parties are just hypocrites and far from any title of public servant.

Emile Pope

They didn’t support a wall...

Carlos Ponce

Let me make sense out of Emile's posts:
"They didn't support a wall....It just shows how misinformed people are..."
Now it makes sense.

George Croix

More word games...more semantics....more sophistry, Pope......

That steel 'wall' Jim Acosta was standing in front of when he proved Pres. Trump right was part of the 700 MILES of border security barrier that the top voices AGAINST anything similar now voted FOR in 2006.....I believe there are still about 3 dozen in the Senate alone who voted for physical barriers.
That the issue has devolved to semantics on their and their supporters' part does not preclude the fact that any rational human recognizes that 'slatted steel barrier" as a WALL, but, in a nod to the perpetually rear end puckered, I'd urge Pres. Trump and the remaining folks on The Hill who CARE about USA citizens BEFORE illegal aliens to FORGET even saying the words 'The Wall', and instead hang tight to fund and build the exact same thing but call it a 'fence' or a 'physical barrier'....

Sometimes, you DO have to play to the lowest common denominators to get anything useful done.....[whistling]

Bailey Jones

Congress writes the budget. The president can lead his party by setting priorities. A real leader, faced with a divided congress, can use the art of the deal to sugar coat a bitter pill, like a border wall, in something that makes it palatable, like comprehensive immigration reform, a path to citizenship for the DACA kids, and a foreign policy that addresses the root causes of the refugee crisis. Lessor leaders can't.

Ron Woody

Mr. Jones the President has been in Office two years and has consistently tried to get Congress to address a decades old issue doing exactly what you state. Elected officials from both parties have torpedoed his attempts and they are the ones that have been there for the decades old problem. Who are the lesser leaders?

Do you believe we should just keep kicking the can down the road so our grandchildren can deal with the continuing issue?

Can you not appreciate someone that after two years of being lied to by both parties has had enough and maybe wants to fix the problem and is willing to do what ever it takes to get a resolution?

I for one am tired of both parties playing the American citizen for fools. I find if people ignore the personality and hubris of the current President they will find he is doing much of what he has said he would do.

This man has not told one group of Americans "to punish" another group, he has not used the IRS to punish his enemies. All of our Presidents have flaws, the media highlights our current President's more because he was not supposed to win, he is not a DC elite and he truly is trying to change government which inerrupts the elite power base.

I will ask one more question who do you think cares more about remaining in DC? The President goes back to an exceptional life being able to do whatever he wants and will probably return to a top ten TV show whenever he wants. McConnell, Pelosi and Schumer have nothing without DC other than the millions their insider information and influence has allowed them to gain from abuse of the American people.

Bailey Jones

I try to keep up with politics but maybe I missed Trump's proposal for comprehensive immigration / DACA / foreign policy reform. Can you point me to it? Cuz all I've heard from Trump for 3 years is The Wall.

Ron Woody

His four pillars from a year ago was very close to that and a good start and the Freedom Caucus killed it. It was a good compromise and the government should have been shut down then and blamed the Freedom Caucus.

Do you not believe the four pillars were most of what you asked?

Carlos Ponce

Here you go Bailey, take your pick, most over a year ago:
"Trump Calls For 'Bill Of Love' Allowing DACA Recipients To Remain: January 9, 2018
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/09/576824141/trump-calls-for-bill-of-love-allowing-daca-recipients-to-remain
"Donald Trump's DACA Deal Is an Embrace of Amnesty - The Atlantic"
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/trump-embraces-amnesty/539790/
"Trump to Offer Citizenship to 1.8 MILLION Illegal Aliens" January 25, 2018
https://www.libertyheadlines.com/trump-offer-citizenship-1-8-million-illegal-aliens/
"Trump: Immigration bill should be a 'bill of love' " Jnuary 9, 2018
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/politics/donald-trump-bill-of-love-immigration/index.html
"Trump: Immigration solution should be a 'bill of love'" January 9, 2018
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/368107-trump-daca-solution-should-be-a-bill-of-love

Bailey Jones

Carlos, those all look great. Especially the first story : "The president also addressed the issue of a border wall with Mexico, saying the U.S. needs one "in certain areas obviously that aren't protected by nature" and where existing fences are in bad shape and need to be fixed or rebuilt. But Trump also said, "There are large areas where you don't need a wall." I suggest he go back to his position of a year ago and put all these ideas into an integrated comprehensive package - or more likely, pay someone to do it for him. If he brought a sensible and comprehensive plan before the American people, he would win the PR battle. I wonder why he won't? Could it be because his base is opposed to these ideas?

Carlos Ponce

Bailey Jones posts, " I wonder why he won't? Could it be because his base is opposed to these ideas?"
His position has not changed since the campaign. Those ideas you found in the article "in certain areas obviously that aren't protected by nature", "There are large areas where you don't need a wall," etc were said by him during the 2016 campaign, in 2017 in 2018 and 2019.
The "base" heard those remarks, read those remarks and embraced those remarks. He hasn't changed his position. It's the Liberal press that mis-reports his stance. That's why he calls it FAKE NEWS.
Win the PR war? If they could hear or read what he actually said, he would win. But the Liberal news has their own agenda.

Bailey Jones

Ron, thanks for the reminder - I had forgotten about his push for the four pillars (it's so hard to keep up). It has some aspects that I don't support, but it's still better than "a wall" as an approach. It seems like Trump has flipped from something that the most conservative members of the congress wouldn't accept to something that only the most conservative members will accept.

Emile Pope

Shutting down the government because you can’t get your way???!!! Having people lose their livelihood in order to keep a campaign promise which actually goes against a campaign promise???!! Guess they’ll understand while they shiver in the streets...

Ron Woody

It is not about getting his way it is about fixing the problem!!!!! Even Schumer has said it is necessary by his previous votes.

Ron Woody

No one is shivering in the streets because of the shutdown, but thanks for the theatrics. Do you write copy for CNN by any chance?

Jim Forsythe

The shutdown has not gone on long enough for most of that to happen.
Ron, do you think after 6 months that will be true.
How longer can a person not pay their mortgage, and still own a house?
People on shutdown, will start running out of savings shortly.

George Croix

Jim, how long will the victims of illegal alien criminals be dead, or suffer from injuries?
How long before honest people forced to pay for dishonest trespassers get their money back......
TWO sides to the story, not just one.............

Even Jim Acosta has come around to showing us all how well a border barrier works, live on TV, so if a total Trump hating hack like him demonstrates that barriers work, even if he was too dumb to realize he was doing so, then get to extending the existing ones, and stop blaming the only guy actually trying to put US citizens and legal residents FIRST over illegal aliens....

Ron Woody

Mr. Forsythe, I have no idea how old you are and it appears you have been fortunate enough to never experience past due accounts, three to four months behind on a mortgage, been on food stamps or long periods of under/unemployment. I have and no one is going to lose their house because of the shutdown. You are far to intelligent to believe this.

Who owns the mortgages on these government employees? Financial Institutions.
Who writes the legislation and regulations that determines how these financial institutions operate? Congress and some of these same federal employees that are furloughed and will receive the pay for the time they do not work.

So do you believe that the financial institutions are going to do mass foreclosures on the employees that help write the regulations that they are guided and work for the people that pass the legislation that determines their profits?

Sir, you are not that foolish or naive!

Now the contractors and people that rent is another matter. But why would a business person with rental property go through the challenge of removing a quality tenant when they know that their money will eventually be received?

Jim Forsythe

Mr Wood, I was out of work because we were on strike for 5 month. Some of the people did lose their houses , car and so on.
Yes, some will get back pay but for the ones working and not getting paid at this time, it does not help in the now. If one is a single parent and required to report to work without pay, the $350 dollars for child care comes from where? Add to that if you have tolls , gas, parking fees, food. These people are paying to work.
Now add in the contractors that are not going to get back pay, how long is a bank going to carry them? Unless you do not count contractors, yes some will lose their houses if this continues very long, including full time government workers.
Remember the President said this could last years.
If you believe that it is only going to last 3 months than maybe they will not lose their houses. How long do you think a bank is going to carry them? Did the banks take away houses during the housing crises in 2007,08,09?


Carlos Ponce

Jim, George Bailey would have helped you pay your bills during the strike.
(Note: George Bailey is a metaphor for a loan from a Savings and Loan type institution.)

Jim Forsythe

It would be nice if we had Ranger Gilman at this time, but we do not. Same with George Bailey.
No one is going to help for a extended time.
It's hard to get a loan when you have no income coming in. Maybe you have done so, if not, take my word for it..
If you have a house loan , they want the money. Same with a car loan. If you food shop, they want money before you can take the food home.
Water company wants money, same with gas. You also have to pay for medical insurance.
If you think a bank can help someone for a extended period of time, they can not in most cases. The money they lend has to have some way of being paid back, in a timely fashion.
This is what Trump just said. "We will be out for a long time’ unless Democrats budge, Trump says, as shutdown enters 4th week" so a timely fashion is not going to happen, unless someone budges.
.

Carlos Ponce

"No one is going to help for a extended time.
It's hard to get a loan when you have no income coming in."
Didn't you read the USAA link I provided?
Loans can be secured with collateral.

Jim Forsythe


USSA loans.
Not many qualify, and now the Coast Guard is going to be paid only a few of NOAA employees will be getting any type of help from USAA
"Other members are angry that the special loans USAA is offering to members of the Coast Guard and NOAA affected by the shutdown are not being offered to all federal workers who are not getting paid."
"Natalie Daniels, 30, is married to a Coast Guard member who is stationed in San Diego, where the cost of living is particularly high. She told ABC News that when she called to apply for a loan, before the emergency payment was issued on Dec. 31, she was told she didn't qualify because she already had an auto loan with USAA."

George Croix

He's blamed for everything since the dawn of time because Hillary lost to a rank amateur political beginner who has shaken DC to it's core by not CARING what the Old Guard thinks....
Yet, they all calll HIM 'petulant'.....

Can't fix that....

Jim Forsythe

Some play off Trump as never had been involved in politics, but that is not true. He has been involved to some degree since the 1980's.

2000: Trump enters the presidential race as a Reform Party candidate and receives more than 15,000 votes in the party's California primary. He also worked for the party.
If you mean that he did not hold a office before he was elected, that's true, But he is not a novice,

George Croix

Jim, in about the same way that you and I are not political novices......
We've talked about and canvassed our friends/neighbors for political support.
Put political signs in our yards.
That's all involved in politics.

15000 votes?
It takes that many potential voters to decide what Chipolte to go to on a Scooby Van Tour...[beam][beam]
We'll have to agree to disagree.
A guy who had the 'involvement' you mention ran against over a dozen long time politicians for the nomination, each of whom had several orders of magnitude more political experience and/or actually held elected office, then beat THE QUEEN of POLITICS, a lifetimer at feeding at the government trough, the ultimate insider, next to her husband, and who previously had only been beaten and tossed under the bus by her own Party.....[beam][beam][beam][beam]

Nit.
Not worth picking.

Ron Woody

Mr. Forsythe, you are correct. Who was receiving all the contributions he was making, let's see Clinton, Schumer, Romney, Peter King, Cuomo, people on both sides. This is a game that is being played by Congress (both parties) and the media.
Does anyone truly believe that if the government magically opens that Congress will do the right thing on immigration policy and border protection. I hope the government stays shut down until we have realistic immigration law, border protection, term limits, path to a balanced budget, etc. Congress' main job is to pass appropriation bills. They have done that three times in 40 years and I am supposed to believe they are all of a sudden going to find wisdom and do their job. No one in this forum can believe that!

There is a quote that I can not remember or find the citation:
"Any cause can survive without a god, no cause can survive without a satan"

Unfortunately Mr. Trump gives both parties and the media a satan which allows them to continue to do nothing.

I originally hear Newt Gingrich say that but I do not know if he is the author.

Gary Miller

The people are with Trump. 88% want the southern border controlled. The longer the shutdown (25%) lasts the more people are with Trump. Even Democrats are 77% in favor of immigration control. Trump claimed he shut down government, congress could force him to reopen government by approving the money he wants for a wall. Trump did shutdown 25 % of government, the house is keeping it closed. If the house approves the wall funding the Senate will agree and send it to Trump for his signature. Pelosi can reopen government any time she wants. Fund the wall.

Jim Forsythe

Controlling the border and the WALL are to different issues to some. Most people are in favor of immigration control. But we are not addressing the 70% of the problem, if the only thing is the wall.
One side says the wall the other says other means. The House has started sending bills to open the government up, except for funding the wall. The Senate will not take up the bills so the logjam at this time is with them.
Trump can open up the government anytime he wants.

George Croix

Jim, THE problem is with any people in this country illegally.
The ones already here are a problem to be dealt with. A visa overstay is ALREADY in the country. The longtime scofflaw illegals are already here.
MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of them.
Or, the 'manufactured crisis', as the usual suspects now pretend.
The ones still to come CAN be PREVENTED, in large measure, from BECOMING a problem, by not making it easy for them to set foot on American soil
THAT is the point at which they become a GI-NORMOUS burden, because with our stupid laws, they are virtually guaranteed to be released into the country with nothing but a 'promise' to come back for review.
ONLY the most unfixable, or the most partisan, believe that 'catch and release' crap is anything but what it is...BS.
I keep hearing "We don't need an 'ineffective' wall. There are other ways to prevent illegal entry."
Prevent what?
One illegal entry?
A dozen?
Sure as heck NOT hundreds, thousands, millions.....or they wouldn't be here and still coming!!!
I personally think the 'walls don't work' bunch are fullovit.
Walls DO work. Nothing is perfect, but a barrier beats open air.

So, question to the 'walls don't work' bunch. Walk your talk....
WHAT WILL WORK to prevent significant numbers, BIG numbers, of illegal aliens from entering this country BESIDES a barrier/wall?
Can you name anything?
Anything?
C'mon, speak up......
REMEMBER, once that illegal sets foot in this country, they become a financial drain at best and it only gets worse after 'released' by court order to 'promise to return'.
Nancy's favorite (besides lawnmowers to mow the grass...) is 'technology".
Hmmmm...ALL things done require the 'technology' for that particular thing to be employed. A wall is a product of 'technology'. The handcuffs used by the Border Patrol are products of 'technology'. Essentially, like most things said on the subject, it sounds good, but means squat.
Perhaps she/you mean 'electronic surveillance' or drones. Well, we HAVE those.
They only SHOW an intrusion, but THEN a human Border Patrol agent has to go try to apprehend them, and IF they have set foot on our side, the money drain starts RIGHT THEN and any and all other unnecessary problems......
SO, HOW will anything other than a physical barrier prevent/at least greatly deter trespassers from setting foot on American soil...or, the Get Out of Jail Free Card that has become thanks to the hand-wringers in BOTH Parties?
What?
A drone with a 'freeze ray' to freeze people in place until they can be taken into custody?
They are already HERE, on THIS side, even if science fiction came to life.
So....
Anything? Anything?
Anyone? Anyone?

Why not just admit that the ONLY thing that can work is a wall, a physical, difficult to breach barrier of some design. The same things you ALL live behind for relative security. THEY deter ACTUAL unwanted physical entry, not the video cam or the ADT sign. You don't wait until YOUR home is invaded to take preventive measures to make it difficult to do so, so why not apply the same standard to ALL OUR 'home', the USA?
Why not?
Because, IMO, of either flat out dishonesty, or political hackery....
I'd be more specific, but the two have become so much alike, it's hard to differentiate.....

Emile Pope

Like the Maginot line? Siegfried line? Great Wall of China? The Causeway?

Carlos Ponce

Funny, Emile didn't mention the Obama "Red line in the sand".[wink]

Jim Forsythe

George, as you and I do not agree on the wall, these are the other things that need to be done.
The path requires immediate, near-, and longer-term actions that should begin with changes to the U.S. asylum system, which is, indeed, in crisis in the face of growing backlogs of cases that take years to complete. Get rid of back log of asylum seekers by processing them in a timely manor.
Rework the visa system as we have too many types . There are about 185 different types of visas.
Take a close look at are immigration laws, and get rid of ones that are no longer needed. Write new laws that make sense.
Increase the use of E-verify. Require it for all employees and employers. Use it for other facades of our lives.
E-verify is the key to making sure most do not over stay visas.
These are just a few of the things that need to change.

George Croix

Jim, I'm for ALL of that, but where we part is right here:
"The path requires immediate, near-, and longer-term actions that should begin with changes to the U.S. asylum system, ....."
Begin with. That.
No.
It should BEGIN with stopping the problem's sizes from increasing daily, THEN attend to the problems we end up with after most new ones have been stopped.
Otherwise, all that's happening is like a fat guy grousing about needing to start a diet and promising himself he will, just as soon as he FIRST solves his immediate problem of getting rid of 3 dozen donuts, a gallon of ice cream, two packages of Snickers bars, and a 30# honey glazed ham....so he won't be bothered by them on his new diet.
His existing problem just gets BIGGER before he stops the REASON it's getting bigger.....

In our ex-line of business, it's like working to clean up oil from a leaking crude line before stopping the leak itself.............

Jim Forsythe

What I would like to see is speeding up the process.
I do not see us not following international asylum laws, so to me changing the way we process a person that is seeking asylum would help in reducing the numbers at the borders and would also reduce the numbers at the holding areas.

Carlos Ponce

Problem is many at the border have been TAUGHT what to say to get in. Most don't really qualify.

Emile Pope

Then let the courts decide...

Jim Forsythe

Carlos said "Problem is many at the border have been TAUGHT what to say to get in. Most don't really qualify."
What are the facts?
The U.S. granted 20,455 individuals asylum in 2016 ( in 2017 250,000 asked for asylum, a little less than 10% were granted.), according to the Yearbook of Immigration Statistics of the same year. More than 25% of approved applicants, or 5,611 individuals, were from the Northern Triangle countries — Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador.
Speedup the process.
Increasing the number of people taking info from them, we could find out who does not qualify, quicker.
Why is it several years-long process?
What steps are required? Once the application is received, an asylum officer will order background checks and fingerprinting, this could be started the first day. The next step could be speeded up with more personal. The applicant then schedules an interview with an officer to review the I-589. The applicant is allowed an interpreter and legal representation "at no cost to the U.S. government." Having more courts for the following would speed it up..
Only after the interview the officer will determine asylum eligibility and refer the application to an immigration court hearing. An immigration judge then grants or denies asylum.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, thousands more file for asylum, are put on a waiting list then allowed into the country pending a hearing. When the tome for a hearing comes - POOF! they're gone.
"About 80 percent of asylum cases in immigration court are denied or otherwise closed. That figure does not include thousands of people granted asylum outside of court."
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/07/05/fact-check-are-80-of-asylum-court-cases-not-approved/
Many cases are closed in absentia.
"Of nearly 100,000 parents and children who have come before the courts since 2014, most asking for refuge, judges have issued rulings in at least 32,500 cases, court records show. The majority - 70 percent - ended with deportation orders in absentia, pronounced by judges to empty courtrooms."
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/07/30/fearful-of-court-asylum-seekers-are-deported-in-absentia

Jim Forsythe

Why do we have a waiting list? Process them the first day, and have a hearing the next day. If not possible by law, then the very first day possible. Process faster and your complaints are fewer. Continue like we are now, and nothing changes except the waiting list gets longer.
Hire more people to speed up the process. We sent troops to the border and there is not reason they could not help in taking application from the seekers. Use ankle monitors. Requires that they use E-verify each day to check in. Or just make excuses why we can not control what's going on.


Carlos Ponce

Jim asks: "Why do we have a waiting list?" Too many who ares asking for asylum. Not enough judges. Trump has asked for more money to adjudicate and expiate the process. Democrats refuse to go along. Even when Republicans had the house, 60 votes were still needed in the Senate. Democrats would not go along.
And Jim posts, "Process them the first day, and have a hearing the next day. If not possible by law, then the very first day possible." Each must be questioned and then information verified.
What you are suggesting is, "You want asylum? Fine! You got it! NEXT!" That's tantamount to an open border. Or are you like Oprah? "You get asylum! And you get asylum! And you get asylum! Next! You get asylum and you get asylum and you get asylum!...."

Jim Forsythe

I'm not suggesting to approve all that seek asylum, but to increase the speed of filling out paper work, having a hearing and so on. Also to make sure if any are going to the USA we know where they are at all the time.
If you are not in favor of speeding it up say so.
We have to work with the laws that apply.

How long do suggests that Each must be questioned and then information verified. should take

Carlos Ponce

"If you are not in favor of speeding it up say so.
We have to work with the laws that apply."
The answer is to fully fund Homeland Security that includes funds not only to fund a wall but also to provide additional judges to "speed up the process".

Jim Forsythe

The budget for Homeland Security has discretionary spending that can be used.
Also if they asked for money for new judges, and did not try and tie it to anything else, they would get the money.

Bailey Jones

Absolutely - Democrats would love immigration reform - real solutions to a real problem. If Trump had proposed any of that, we would not be shutdown right now.

George Croix

What does that mean, Bailey?
That 'immigration reform'?
What does that involve?

Ron Woody

Mr. Jones, How close were the four pillars the President proposed to what you would like to see?

George Croix

Ron, I think Bailey is a she...if that's wrong, then my apologies to both of you....[smile]

Ron Woody

George, Thanks for that information point. But since gender is fluid I may be Rhonda tomorrow. :)

Carlos Ponce

"Democrats would love immigration reform - real solutions to a real problem." The rest of us calls it OPEN BORDERS.

Paula Flinn

No one wants open borders. That is right-wing nonsense. Opening the Government and Funding s Wall should be 2 separate bills. The House will not approve a bill to build a wall, now that the majority and leadership has changed. Trump is holding 800,000 people hostage. Acting petulant and angry does not help. He...”alone can fix it.”

Carlos Ponce

Duh, Paula, without a wall the borders are open now.
At the meeting Trump asked if we fund the government now would there be bill to fund the wall within 30 days. Nancy said no. So Trump said "Bye-Bye" and left. Nancy is refusing to compromise. I thought you Democrats wanted to see compromise. Must have been just political rhetoric.

Carlos Ponce

Paula posts, "No one wants open borders."
Tell that to the Democrat Party leadership in the House and Senate. Few problem here, since no Democrat politicians win in Galveston County especially in state wide races. It's other parts of Texas and the country where Democrats want open borders.

Jim Forsythe

The Democrat Party leadership do not want open borders, but do not believe that a WALL is the way. We have a much bigger problem with visa overstayers.

Former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating, a self-described “Reagan Republican”
“Unfortunately, too many conservatives — though they aspire to walk in Reagan’s footsteps — have forgotten that immigration reform is the most Republican of causes,” Keating wrote. “We cannot support open borders for trade but not for people. We cannot support the unfettered exchange of goods and ideas while building razor-wired walls that separate children from their parents. We cannot make America stronger and more prosperous by excluding tomorrow’s talent and industry.”

Carlos Ponce

If you don't want what the Border agents are asking for - you want Open Borders.

Carlos Ponce

"Former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating, a self-described “Reagan Republican”
SELF DESCRIBED, because people who knew Reagan would not call him such.
He claimed Ronald Reagan would want open borders? No, he would not.

Jim Forsythe

"He claimed Ronald Reagan would want open borders? No, he would not.'
Maybe you can not remember when Ronald Reagan said , "open borders both ways"
From the Republican presidential primary debate, April 23, 1980.
Ronald Reagan: Can I add to that? I think the time has come that the United States and our neighbors, particularly our neighbor to the south, should have a better understanding and a better relationship than we’ve ever had....
Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit—and then while they’re working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. And open the border both ways by understanding their problems.

Jarvis Buckley

Does anyone remember Popes forum posts when Schumer shut the government down?

George Croix

Jarvis, that's 'garbage'.
'Didn't happen'.
That's 'false'.
"Proof?"
"Links?"

Sound familiar......?

[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

George Croix

Note two favorite buzz phrases of the Democrat party:
"Common Sense Gun Control'
and
"Comprehensive Immigration Reform"

The former is utterly meaningless, because they never describe anything that IS 'common sense'. It's NOT 'common sense' to pile more failed restrictions onto honest citizens that do nothing to effect the dishonest ones...just more of the same that has always failed because it penalizes the wrong people. That's a form of insanity...repeating the same failures, hoping for a different outcome.

The latter is utterly meaningless, because they never describe anything that IS 'comprehensive'. It is not 'comprehensive' to vote for and pass laws that make it easier for lawbreakers to continue to break the laws already in existence and forgive en masse those already here illegally....those dishonest 'immigrants' are still among us, and NO effort is EVER acted on actually addresses that criminality or actually STOPS thousands of new scofflaws monthly from entering the country...just more of the same failures by different names, hoping foolish people believe that there will be a different outcome.

Note any commonalities in these two issues......?

Yet, these same people, offering ZERO but buzz words, platitudes, and talking points refer to the President who's attempting to take up for honest citizens and punish scofflaw criminals as _______________ (fill in a pejorative - they've all been used).

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise".

Not a good motto for a country......

Emile Pope

donald said that Mexico would pay for the wall. So why are 800,000 people out of work? Why is donald forcing American taxpayers to pay for something he said they wouldn’t have to pay for? Trying to justify cruelty based upon a lie is simply hypocrisy. Let him declare a national emergency to build it. Can’t wait till President Warren, Harris, or Biden declares healthcare, global warming, and racism a national emergency and takes action...

Carlos Ponce

Mexico will pay for the wall.

George Croix

Why were Americans forced to pay for 'affordable health care' that wasn't, or be taxed, despite saying they wouldn't?
Why can't we all sing and tap dance and play the harmonica?

I agree you can't wait for those things.....you and I both will be long gone.......
[whistling]

Carlos Ponce

Obama promised premiums would be lowered $2500.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so
Did he [crying] LIE????

Emile Pope

The discussion was about the government shutdown, the Senate’s refusal to vote on a bill to reopen it, and donald’s demand that American taxpayers pay for a wall he said Mexico would pay for.

Carlos Ponce

Mexico will pay for the wall and Obama LIED!

George Croix

Ah...equivalencies only count in one direction, huh.....
So, Republican 'lies' bad, even if not in play yet.
Democrat 'lies' irrelevant, even if already costing us.

Straight from a horses mouth.....

Emile Pope

So donald lied?

Carlos Ponce

Donald Trump did not lie about Mexico paying for the wall. Some just lack the mental capacity to understand how Mexico is paying for the wall. Do we include Emile in that group?

Jim Forsythe

If you are talking about USMCA then this still applies. Or is it a different way of paying for the WALL today?
You can not say it is already paying for the wall. It must be passed before any money that might come from USMCA is deposited in the government account. If that is not true, why is Trump not using NAFTA money now, as it is the same type of income.
After USMCA passes, if it does, any money that is produced can not be used for the wall without the OK from congress. 60 Senates votes required.
The new agreement may not go into effect until 2020 because leaders from the three countries must sign it and then Congress and the legislatures of Canada and Mexico must approve it – a process that will take time.

George Croix

It's using your own words, Pope...don't you even remember what you say?

You said he did, Pope, even though the play isn't over yet.
But, you KNOW his predecessor did, repeatedly, and the curtain is long drawn, and that's OK with you.

Nothing new there.......

Paula Flinn

Republicans sabotaged Obamacare.

Carlos Ponce

No, Paula, Obama care was doomed to fail from the start. From false promises about lowered premiums to "You have to vote for the bill to know what is in it". Premiums were increasing from the onset. Talk to a doctor. many HATED Obamacare with the multitudes of paperwork that came with it. Insurance companies wanted it, insurance companies abandoned it once it became law.
It's not a tax the Democrats cried. It's a tax Supreme court Justice Roberts decreed.
A families premiums will go down $2500 Obama promised. No, they rose BIG TIME.
If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. Some did. Too many did not.
ACA (AKA Obamacare) - NOT GOOD LEGISLATION.

Paula Flinn

So many people still on Obamacare, Carlos. Why haven’t the Republicans come up with a good plan?

Emile Pope

They have...but dying in the street doesn’t have the same appeal. Although the premiums are less...

Carlos Ponce

Paula asks, "Why haven’t the Republicans come up with a good plan?"
They did. It didn't have enough votes in the Senate. The senator from Arizona (may he rest in peace) promised to vote for it but rose from his death bed to vote against it.

Paula Flinn

Emile, the Republican plan had no provisions for pre-existing conditions. And, pre-existing conditions ranged from acne to cancer, and from diabetes to pregnancy. No provisions for drugs like insulin to cost less. No restrictions on Big Pharma. A baby born with a heart condition, like Jimmy Kimmel’s, would have a pre-existing condition under the Republican plan. If Sen. McCain had not voted it down, millions of people would have no healthcare.

Carlos Ponce

Paula posts: "Emile, the Republican plan had no provisions for pre-existing conditions." Yes it did, Paula.
Here is the link to the American Health Care Act of 2017:
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/BILLS-115hr1628eh.pdf
Now go to page 91 of the PDF:
SEC. 137. CONSTRUCTIONS. (b) NO LIMITING ACCESS TO COVERAGE FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed as permitting health insurance issuers to limit access to health coverage for individuals with preexisting conditions.
and on page 88:
"Stabilizing premiums for individuals with pre-existing conditions."
The American Health Care Act of 2017 (H. R. 1628) passed the House on May 4, 2017. It missed passage in the Senate on July 28, 2017 for lack of a promised vote from the Arizona Senator (May he rest in peace).
Paula, you really need to check before posting something so erroneous.

Jarvis Buckley

Pope you are a narsistic liberal , never wrong & President Trump
never right. We each have opinions
but occasionally we are wrong.
I was wrong by not investing more in the stock market last week , when yo declared it was crashing. Then it went up 1,000 pts. Not going to listen to you anymore .😀

Robert Braeking

Those like Pope are 40% of the population. I still stand by my Civics101 lesson. Until there is a bill to sign there is no issue. All bills must be either signed or vetoed by the president. There is also the pocket veto. If the president does not sign a bill within a certain time then it is considered vetoed. Then Congress has the option of over-riding that veto by 2/3 vote. Congress is the culprit.

Emile Pope

There is a bill. The Senate cannot vote on it because McConnell won’t allow a vote. Unless congress is in session. Then it becomes law. McConnell and the Republicans are to blame for the shutdown...

George Croix

Takes 60 votes to move a bill out of the Senate.
Schumer and his Democrats have ALL...ALL...said they won't vote for it.
Can't GET 60 unless some Democrats vote to advance the bill.

7th grade civics.............

Emile Pope

The House passed a bill without the wall. No Democrats said that they would vote against it. McConnell refuses to allow it to be voted on because donald opposes it. Apparently you failed Reading Comprehension along with Civics...

Carlos Ponce

McConnell refuses to allow it to be voted on because it is doomed to fail. Waiting on the Nancys to produce a bill that will pass, id est: a bill that includes funding for a wall.

Emile Pope

“McConnell refuses to allow it to be voted on” The House did their job. You just keep trying to make excuses for the Senate not to do theirs. And your convoluted logic and false facts don’t change that...

Carlos Ponce

The House DID NOT do its job. The president proposed a budget. It included money for a Border wall/fence/barrier. The original request came from those who actually secure the border (or try to). Don't believe me - here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY7coJedX4g
For the Nancys to ignore the budget request on pure political grounds is pathetic.

Emile Pope

Show me where in the Constitution it says that Congress has to submit a budget that the president agrees with. That’s why Congress can override a veto. Especially when the president is a Russian operative trying to shut down the government to help his partners...

Jim Forsythe

Fault by Omission,does not mean no reasonably.
Instead of three branches of government, in this case we have two. We have the House and the President trying to solve this and the Senate saying we will not vote on anything until the President says he is ok with it, so we will stay out of it. If what you said is true, the President would have no skin in the game, the outcome would be, what ever the House said they wanted. The President is trying to work it out, so he is just like the House as far as who is at fault.
When the Senate says that they will not vote until they are sure that the President will pass it, that makes the President driving the wagon. In this case the President is controlling 2 branches, which means since he is controlling the Senate, he may have two thirds at fault. The one's not willing to sign a bill that will fund the government is the Senate and the President. The two that do not want to fund the wall, is the House and the Senate. All 3 branches are at fault, If the President was not part of this, the shut down would not have happen. Unless the President was silent about the wall, he has fault just like the rest.

McConnell wants to keep his hands clean. He is not even following his own play book. The Senate is part of the branches of government and should act as such.
"In the 2014 speech, McConnell cast the Senate as the platform for solving the nation's most significant disputes. "The place where it happens, the place where all the national conflicts and controversies that arise in this big, diverse, wonderful country have always been resolved, is right here in this chamber," he said. Yet McConnell now refuses to take any affirmative action to come to an agreement. He is forcing the Senate to serve as an empty pass-through for the president's partisan, political agenda. Whatever you think of the shutdown, the Senate shouldn't be sitting out the debate, taking no position and expecting everyone else to do the work."

Carlos Ponce

"Instead of three branches of government, in this case we have two. We have the House and the President trying to solve this and the Senate saying we will not vote on anything....All 3 branches are at fault,..." WRONG, Jim!
The THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT are Executive, Legislative and Judicial. To pass a law ONLY TAKES TWO, Jim: Legislative to pass the Bill, Executive to sign it unless it is veto proof. The Judicial branch is only called in if the Constitutionality of a passed and signed law is challenged.
"All 3 branches are at fault" ???? What's the Judicial Branch have to do with this?
The House and Senate are NOT separate branches of government. Each chamber is part of ONE BRANCH - the Legislative. It is a checks and balances approach designed by our forefathers where the House is apportioned by state population but each state is equal in the Senate. Hence United STATES of America.

Jim Forsythe

Fault by Omission,does not mean no reasonably.
. We have the House and the President trying to solve this and the Senate saying we will not vote on anything until the President says he is ok with it, so we will stay out of it. If what you said is true, the President would have no skin in the game, the outcome would be, what ever the House said they wanted. The President is trying to work it out, so he is just like the House as far as who is at fault.
When the Senate says that they will not vote until they are sure that the President will pass it, that makes the President driving the wagon. In this case the President is controlling 11/2 branches, which means he is controlling the Senate since they are not helping.,. The one's not willing to sign a bill that will fund the government is the Senate and the President. The two that do not want to fund the wall is the House and the Senate.All are at fault, If the President was not part of this, the shut down would not have happen. Unless the President was silent about the wall, he has fault just like the rest.

McConnell wants to keep his hands clean. He is not even following his own play book. The Senate is part of the branches of government and should act as such.
"In the 2014 speech, McConnell cast the Senate as the platform for solving the nation's most significant disputes. "The place where it happens, the place where all the national conflicts and controversies that arise in this big, diverse, wonderful country have always been resolved, is right here in this chamber," he said. Yet McConnell now refuses to take any affirmative action to come to an agreement. He is forcing the Senate to serve as an empty pass-through for the president's partisan, political agenda. Whatever you think of the shutdown, the Senate shouldn't be sitting out the debate, taking no position and expecting everyone else to do the work."

Van Jones

Trump said it was on him.... Are you saying he’s a liar? Bahahaha

Carlos Ponce

The president always takes responsibility for what goes on during his administration. Remember the sign on Harry Truman's desk: "The Buck Stops Here".
Now taking responsibility and actually being responsible are not the same thing. If you don't get it, Van Jones, don't worry. Jethro Bodine had trouble with that concept too.[beam]

Jim Forsythe

I hope Trump does take responsibility for what goes on during his administration.
Donald Trump promised to drain the Washington swamp. Instead, he has surrounded himself with family members, appointees and advisers who’ve been accused of conflicts of interest, misuse of public funds, influence peddling, self-enrichment, working for foreign governments, failure to disclose information and violating ethics rules. Some are under investigation or facing lawsuits,others have resigned and five have either been convicted or pleaded guilty, including three for lying to government officials. Scandals plague all administrations, but Trump’s isn’t two years old and the allegations keep on coming.
Just a few of his best.
Paul Manafort Former chairman of Trump’s presidential campaign
Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser pleaded guilty.
Michael Cohen, a former lawyer for Donald Trump, was sentenced to three years in prison

Carlos Ponce

Mueller has pretty much said that no charges should be filed against Michael Flynn. Even the FBI agents who interrogated him said the alleged "lie" was not on purpose.

Jim Forsythe

He pleaded guilty and so it is. If he was not, he would have done so.
Spin it however you want, but he pleaded guilty. Even if the President pardons him , he will have will still have pleaded guilty.

Emile Pope

And accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt...

Carlos Ponce

Emile, Michael Flynn has not been pardoned.

Jim Forsythe

Spin it however you want, but he pleaded guilty

Mike Zeller

I believe the President when he said he would be "PROUD" to shut down the government. I don't believe Carlos Ponce and his buddy Jethro.[smile]

Jim Forsythe

Trump is no Harry Truman.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, others have compared Trump to Truman, and not just for the colorful metaphors.
"Bobby Knight compares Donald Trump to Harry Truman, who had the 'guts to drop the bomb' "
https://www.businessinsider.com/bobby-knight-donald-trump-harry-truman-2016-4
"Truman is the modern outsider most like Trump.blunt, plain spoken, aggressive, energetic and willing to fight the establishment," Gingrich tweeted.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/291253-mccaskill-blasts-gingrich-for-comparing-trump-to-truman
Of course you have Trump haters who dislike the comparison:
"[Claire] McCaskill blasts Gingrich for comparing Trump to Truman"
Remember it was Truman who was declared a loser in the 1948 Presidential Election. He is often shown holding up the newspaper headline: "DEWEY WINS".
Likewise Newsweek licensee Topix produced a Newsweek cover with "Madam President - Hillary Clinton's Historic Journey to the White House".
" 'For the past six months Newsweek Special Editions has been piecing together a Road to the White House Tribute Issue for both major party candidates,' Tony Romando of Topix Media said.
But Topix made a business decision to only print the Clinton version ahead of time given that she is almost universally favored to win the election.
If Trump wins, the Clinton copies will be trashed and the Trump version will be rushed to the printing presses — a simple business calculation, Romando said.
Rolando explained: 'Unlike hard news magazines, commemorative editions for sporting events, elections and unfortunately deaths are created weeks, months, and even years in advance. The largest publishers in America have dozens of tributes ready to print at plants across the country,' he said."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-newsweek-cover/
"NBC News and many other news organizations reported after Donald Trump was actually elected on Nov. 8, Newsweek published 125,000 copies of a $10.99 commemorative magazine with Clinton's picture on the cover and the headline "Madam President."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/madam-president-newsweek-copies-sale-online-buyer-beware-n690411
The comparisons of Trump to Truman are out there. But Jim doesn't accept them Sounds like a personal problem.

Jim Forsythe

You are going to hold up Bobby Knight as someone too look up to? This may be why you like Trump, as they have a lot of the same quality's. I worked with a man that refused to let his son play for him.
"If there was ever any doubt about Bob Knight’s irrelevance and bitterness, he confirmed both when he said “I hope they’re all dead,” Knight, a man who makes the Grinch seem like the Pope, told Patrick when cued up about his former bosses at Indiana. Endorsing the deaths of school administrators is crossing the line. "
Knight lived far too long doing what he wanted to do, saying what he wanted to say, choking who he wanted to choke. Knight choked Neil Reed at a practice in 1997.
Here's a look at some of the outbursts over the years by Bob Knight. This is the short list . If you would like the full list, I can supply it. 1975 — Upset over two turnovers in a Big Ten game, Knight grabs sophomore Jim Wisman by the jersey and jerks him into his seat. 1979 — Knight is charged and later tried and convicted in absentia for hitting a policeman before practice at the Pan American Games in Puerto Rico, although extradition efforts are later dropped. 1983 — Knight criticizes Big Ten officiating by standing at midcourt and cursing at Big Ten Commissioner Wayne Duke, 1985 — Tosses a chair across the court during a game against Purdue, 1993 — Is suspended for one game after a sideline tirade in a 101-82 victory over Notre Dame in which he screams at his player son, Pat, and kicks at him March 2000 — Is investigated by university after former player Neil Reed says Knight choked him at a practice in 1997. A videotape of the practice supports Reed. Sept. 7, 2000 — Is accused of grabbing a student by the arm, cursing and lecturing him about manners after the coach was addressed "Hey, Knight, what's up?" Nov. 13, 2006 — Knight approaches player Michael Prince, who was looking toward the floor, and sharply pushes his chin with an open hand, apparently in an effort to get him to look up while talking to him.
Knight throws a vase at a university secretary. Knight's son Tim suffered a dislocated shoulder and a broken nose during a scuffle with his father during a hunting trip


Jim Forsythe

Gingrich is a Longtime Friend of Trump, and would not expect anything less from a friend.

Carlos Ponce

The comparisons are valid.
Both use colorful metaphors. ✓
Both plain spoken men of the people.✓
Major publications proclaimed each lost presidency.✓
Truman recognized the country of Israel in 1948. Trump and other presidents recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital but Trump moved the American embassy there. So both are looked highly upon by the Israelis.✓

Jim Forsythe

Hope you are not talking about Bobby Knight .

Carlos Ponce

I mention the names TRUMP and TRUMAN, not Knight in my last post.

Carlos Ponce

Add Mike Zeller to the list of people who just don't get it - like Jethro Bodine.

Jim Forsythe

As Buddy Ebsen said after the “Beverly Hillbillies” ended "how could anyone even believe such a naïve thing."

Carlos Ponce

Jim, that was in reference to the rumor that Irene Ryan (Granny) was actually younger than Donna Douglas (Elly Mae).
"There were constant rumors spreading that Irene Ryan was actually younger than Donna Douglas, but wore extensive makeup as Granny. Ryan was born in 1902 and Douglas was born in 1933. Ryan was in fact 31 years older than Douglas. Buddy Ebsen later joked after the 'Beverly Hillbillies' family members had ended how could anyone even believe such a naive thing."
https://www.worldlifestyle.com/trending/things-producers-beverly-hillbillies-hid-fans/23?slides=1
It had NOTHING to do with Max Baer Jr.'s portrayal of Jethro Bodine.

Jim Forsythe

It has ever thing to do with Jethro Bodine one of the main cast members. If the show should not be believed, Jethro should not . Most people have grown past the “Beverly Hillbillies", but some are still watching them.

Carlos Ponce

"It has ever thing to do with Jethro Bodine..." How?
The comment was made by Ebsen about the rumor Irene Ryan was YOUNGER than Donna Douglas. This comment does not apply to Max Baer or his character Jethro Bodine. Show me how you think this comment applies to Jethro. It clearly does not.

Paula Flinn

I agree. Texas already has a river, we do not need a wall. A wall would prevent the Bighorn Sheep and other animals in Big Bend from drinking water from the river and would also prevent animal migrations. This would probably result in the extinction of some animals. The wall would cut through a butterfly sanctuary. The Texas ranchers who own land along the river would be forced to give up their land for the wall by “eminent domain.” There have already been articles written about the landowners planning on filing lawsuits and fighting to keep their land.
Most of the drugs coming in from Mexico come in by cars, tractor trailers, boats, and planes. There will be tunnels under the wall. In short, the wall would demand constant surveillance every 20 to 30 yards, or so, to prevent people from climbing it or tunneling under it. Constant surveillance! Just like the river!

Carlos Ponce

"fighting to keep their land."
The lawsuits are over how much money they get. The government through eminent domain can take over any property as long as proper payment for said property is made.
Amendment 5:
"....nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
The Supreme Court Case "Olson v The United States" held that just compensation normally is to be measured by "the market value of the property at the time of the taking contemporaneously paid in money."
In other words, you can file a lawsuit contesting how much money is paid but not to keep the land. You can try but the US Constitution wins on this one.
"A CNN analysis of lawsuits filed the last time the government seized land to build a border fence in 2006 found that property owners who fought to keep their land always lost..."
https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/03/us/eminent-domain-border-private-land-cases/

Paula Flinn

I agree with Mike Zeller. Pres. Trump owns this shutdown. He said so in the Oval Office on National TV.

Carlos Ponce

Paula, Does a principal take responsibility for everything that happens on his or her campus? He or she does. It doesn't mean he or she is actually responsible for what happened. Assuming responsibility and actually being responsible are two different concepts.

Emile Pope

And sometimes the person accepting responsibility is also responsible. Such as in this case...

Carlos Ponce

Not here Emile. But think what you want. It really doesn't matter what you think. If you voted straight ticket Democrat in the last election NONE of your candidates won.

Emile Pope

donald has to deny being an agent for Russia because he refused to do so the first time they were asked. He keeps the government shut down over a wall no one wants and he said Mexico would pay for. Has secret meetings with Putin (his handler) where any notes about it are confiscated. And withdraws the military from Syria which is exactly what Russia wants. But her emails...

Carlos Ponce

Emile, are you an agent for Russia? The Russian's aim in 2016 was to cause discord in American politics, distrust in President-elect and President Trump. So you are doing their bidding.
"a wall no one wants" - Typical Emile. I provide a link that shows border agents talking about a wall they want and you ignore it.
Mexico will pay for the wall. It's been explained infinitum. Apparently some lack the mental capacity to understand the concept.
Notes taken by translators become the property of the US government. Rex Tillerson was present at those "secret meetings" and says there's nothing there out of what Trump reported.
US troops are still in Syria and will continue under a SLOW withdrawal dependent on ISIS activity.

Emile Pope

False. donald sells fear based on racism. People with intelligence aren’t buying it. That’s why most people oppose his policies and a wall...

Carlos Ponce

"donald sells fear based on racism." Give me one example. You cannot because it is a false premise.
"That’s why most people oppose his policies and a wall..." You seem to be basing that false assumption on polls. Check the demographics of those polls. They're way off and do not reflect America.

Carlos Ponce

"That’s why most people oppose his policies and a wall..."
Apparently you are ignoring the pleas of Angel Families. I provided that link earlier too.
Emile, do you even CARE about what Angel Families want?????

Emile Pope

"Notes taken by translators become the property of the US government. Rex Tillerson was present at those "secret meetings" and says there's nothing there out of what Trump reported." Totally wrong. Sources?

Emile Pope

"The Quinnipiac poll also finds that 61 percent of voters support funding border security without the wall; that 59 percent think the wall is a bad use of taxpayer money; and that 63 percent oppose shutting down the government to get the wall."

Carlos Ponce

Emile, check the methodology. As usual, Democrats were over polled. The results are skewed in favor of a Liberal view.

Emile Pope

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-putin-meeting-1289318
If they were government property they donald broke the law by confiscating them. Where are they now?

Carlos Ponce

Emile, Newsweek got their information from the Washington Post. That link does show Rex Tillerson present at the meetings. "Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson." -WAPO. According to the WAPO article Tillerson briefed a "White House adviser and a senior State Department official" on the nature of the meeting with Putin. They all knew so nothing was hidden. You asked for "proof" but it was you who provided it. Thank you, Emile.
Here's a message from the president "Tell Vladimir I’ll have a lot more flexibility after the election." [beam]

Emile Pope

Apparently you failed to comprehend that tillerson was not present at all of the meetings. That donald had private meetings with Putin. Maybe you can have someone read it to you...

Carlos Ponce

Liberal WAPO disagrees with your assessment.

Emile Pope

Guess you couldn’t...

Emile Pope

Angel families? What do you call the families of mass shooting victims? The victims of police brutality? Of hate crimes? Do you care about what they want or is it convenient to ignore them? Holding the government hostage to get a wall built than most people don't want and donald said Mexico would build is inhumane and callous...

Carlos Ponce

The death of any innocent person is wrong. The death of loved ones from the actions of illegals is preventable with border security and that includes a wall.
Looks like you did not open the link I provided. Angel families say that a wall could have prevented a death. Do you care about what they want or is it convenient to ignore them? We're talking about tens of thousands, Emile, even by Liberal estimates.
Tell Nancy to stop holding the government hostage.

Randy Chapman

Emile, I like many want the wall built, and government shut down until then if need be. Yes, the taxpayers will float the loan to build the wall, but the wall will pay back in leaps and bounds. Just one year of illegal alien's drain on our government dwarfs the cost of building the wall. Once built, it will slow illegal migration and the welfare drain illegals add to our own generational welfare issues. It's a win any way you look at it.

George Croix

Since the subject was brought up, is there some reason why the killers of the hundreds yearly in South Chicago don’t get charged with ‘hate crimes’?
How the folks who kill Police officers - shouldn’t those be hate crimes?

As far as ‘the people don’t want’ something, I’d guess easily that most don’t want to be taxed.
Do away with taxation?
Maybe that would be a good way to eliminate illegals and generational citizen takers...no money for their benefits.....
Always good to be careful what’s wished for...

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