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Carlos Ponce

George Schmahl writes, "The statue is offensive to an important segment of our city’s population." That's an assumption, not a fact. Let the voters decide.

The monument is a tourist attraction. Isaac Fanuiel brought his friends to see it last weekend.

Jim Forsythe

“It’s time for the statue to come down,” organizer Isaac Fanuiel IV said. “It’s not just about the statue. We want to bring attention to the statue, but the issues are deeper than that. Issues of race are at the forefront; it’s time to talk honestly about that.”

Carlos Ponce

In other words, it's not about the statue.

David Hardee

Correct Carlos - the statues, icons etc. are the beard hiding their face. If you are the Traditional AMERICAN you are their real target. Isn't that clear when they keep expanding from confederate to Columbus to Jesus etc. for destruction.

ISRAEL JACK SR.

IT'S ABOUT SIN, THAT'S A HEART PROBLEM, JESUS AND ONLY JESUS CAN SOLVE THAT PROBLEM. JOHN 3: 16 READ IT.

Bailey Jones

"IT'S ABOUT SIN" - Mr. Jack, and confederate statues are monuments to that sin.

Wayne D Holt

Jim, the founder of Black Entertainment Television (BET) just said black folks laugh at white people who think removing a statue is important to African Americans. It is symbolic for white Americans who lean left but his remarks indicated what is needed is on-the-ground changes today in equal treatment, not gnashing of teeth over events 150 years ago.

Was he wrong?

Emile Pope

Yes.

Bailey Jones

He's but one opinion. I wonder what Bill Cosby thinks?

In a poll released last week, in the answer to the question "43. Do you support or oppose removing Confederate statues from public spaces around the country?" blacks supported removal at 84% (compared to 44% of whites). 67% of young Americans support removal, regardless of race. Interestingly, the same question in 2017 only got 39% support in 2017, now 52% overall.

In answer to the question "41. Do you think that discrimination against black people in the United States today is a serious problem?" 95% of blacks answered yes, compared to 62% of whites, with youth at 80%.

In both cases, opposition comes largely from old white men, which will surprise no one.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3663

Carlos Ponce

Check the demographics on that Quinnipiac University poll, Bailey.

As usual, over poll Democrats 33% to Republicans 25%, sampling error of +/-6.9 percentage.[yawn]

Bailey Jones

Oh Carlos - why do you always have to be wrong? The +/-6.9% sampling error applies to the 200 respondents who are black - a smaller sample means larger uncertainty. I'd think a math teacher would know that. The sampling error for the poll overall is +/-2.7%. Maybe you didn't read that part, or maybe you read it and decided that "lie by omission" was the only hope for your "Lost Cause".

As for the D/R split - "A new analysis by Pew Research Center of long-term trends in party affiliation – based on surveys conducted among more than 360,000 registered voters over the past 25 years, including more than 12,000 in 2018 and 2019 – finds only modest changes in recent years. Overall, 34% of registered voters identify as independents, 33% as Democrats and 29% as Republicans." - https://www.people-press.org/2020/06/02/in-changing-u-s-electorate-race-and-education-remain-stark-dividing-lines/

So the poll accurately samples Republicans and Democrats with reasonable accuracy.

But it doesn't matter because the polling answers are also broken out by party. Let's see how that train wreck went:

41. Do you think that discrimination against black people in the United States today is a serious problem? 60% of Republicans say NO. 96% of Democrats say YES. But what do blacks say? 95% say YES. Here we can see the serious disconnect between the old white men in the Republican party and the people actually experiencing discrimination.

43. Do you support or oppose removing Confederate statues from public spaces around the country? 80% of Republicans say NO. 85% of Democrats say YES. But what do blacks say? 84% say YES. Here we can see the serious disconnect between the old white men in the Republican party ("IT'S OUR HERITAGE!") and the people who were actually impacted by the Jim Crow policies the monuments were erected to reinforce.

Watching the Republican party under Trump is like watching the glaciers melt. Better get that golf cart decorated and those white power chants ready for the election - it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Carlos Ponce

It seemed appropriate since you write about the Black response. I should have made my self clearer on that.

Joe Mancuso

Cherrypick - To pick out the best or most desirable items from a list or group, especially to obtain some advantage or to present something in the best possible light. To select only evidence which supports an argument, and reject or ignore contradictory evidence.

Carlos Ponce

Not cherry picking, Joe, just aiming at brevity.

Joe Mancuso

Yeah, you tried using that excuse before too! Face it, Carlos, you got caught, AGAIN!

Carlos Ponce

Looks like I'm casting pearls before swine.

David Hardee

Do you really really think that among these scoundrels in this patch of malcontents will let it rest in the public venue or anywhere. Their newfound hate for OUR symbols and icons is without boundaries. If you are a believer in AMERICA you are the actual target.

Be prepared.

Emile Pope

Your symbol? Who are you?

Ted Gillis

Just send it back to the UDC. Thank them for their generosity, and tell them that we are through with it, as it no longer fits within our current master plans. The daughters can then re-gift it to some one else, while sharing the history of where it stood for all these years.

There is no shame in that. Times change and trends change.

Heck, my wife redecorates our house evey few years and tosses out stuff that is perfectly good all of the time.

Carlos Ponce

But most of Galveston County likes the gift.

Bailey Jones

[thumbup]

Lisa Gray

How about we not have knee jerk reactions which is what the left wants. Let's let this situation cool off and then discuss rationally. That might be hard for those whose agenda is to totally "transform America" though.

David Hardee

Pause and reflect is the only sane recommendation that has the possibility of acceptance.

Let's not let the "media" escape their overly energetic stimulation of the opposing parties. There will be no pause with the activist interviews and the partisan rhetoric constantly bombarding our society.

That castigation of the media is what my original posted comment on this thread intended to the editor,

Emile Pope

Pause and reflect is just another way of saying delay and do nothing...

Carlos Ponce

This too will pass.

Emile Pope

You mean wait and do nothing...

Carlos Ponce

"Nothing" was the majority answer in the GCDN Question of the Week. Emile, that statue does you no harm. It's not going to climb down off its pedestal after you.

Ted Gillis

Was a citizens survey taken before the statue was gifted to the county?

Carlos Ponce

No objections were voiced when the UDC announced the creation of the statue in 1911. There are no published GDN accounts of surveys nor objections then nor in 1912 when the statue was unveiled. Were your ancestors in Galveston at the time, Ted? Mine weren't. Perhaps any journals kept by those who were would reveal what a survey back then would show.

Emile Pope

No objections? Let’s see...1911...Jim Crow firmly established by law. Black people not allowed to vote. No black people in any elected positions and had absolutely no political or economic power. Did I forget to mention that lynching was legal? Who dared complain and to whom? The statue wasn’t put up to commemorate the confederacy, it was put up to commemorate the time the people were living in...

Carlos Ponce

No objections TO THIS STATUE were printed in the Galveston Daily News, Emile 1911-1912. If you think there was then PROVE it.

Blacks were not the only people lynched, Emile. Whites, Mexican-Americans, Chinese, Native Americans, Italian Americans, Greek Americans, Jewish Americans, Finnish Americans, German Americans etc. were also lynched,

Emile Pope

During the 50’s and 60’s, southerners used to say that Black people never complained. They never said that if they did they would be arrested or murdered. Guess they forgot that part...

Carlos Ponce

"During the 50’s and 60’s, southerners used to say that Black people never complained." Not the 50s and 60s I remember, Emile.

Emile Pope

Remember the term "Northern agitators"?

Carlos Ponce

The term, "northern agitators" was used by KKK Grand Wizard Samuel Green before I was born. So no, I don't remember it. I had to look it up. He died in 1949 so it does not fit your 50s and 60s timeline.

John E Sr. Macrini

The statue is Historical. Leave it where it is. Homes, churches, and parks where Confederates lived and gathered are also historical. Should they be moved or destroyed also ?

Emile Pope

Yes...

Carlos Ponce

James M. Brown used slaves to build his Ashton Villa. Ashton Villa served as Confederate headquarters during the Civil War. Should it be removed?

Emile Pope

Was the building a monument to the confederacy or the war?

Bailey Jones

No need to tear it down. Just locate the descendants of the slaves who built it and pay them for the labor. If you tore down everything in this country built by slaves - either directly or with the fortunes extracted from their sweat and toil - there wouldn't be much left.

Carlos Ponce

"Was the building a monument to the confederacy or the war?" It was Confederate Headquarters, Emile.

Bailey Jones

It wasn't confederate headquarters any more than the Ursuline sisters were the confederate hospital. Ashton Villa was commandeered by the confederates in 1861, commandeered by the union in 1862, then by the confederates again in 1863, and presumably again by the union in 1865. Similarly, the Ursuline sisters nursed soldiers of both sides during the war. Enough with the straw persons, Carlos.

Carlos Ponce

"The Brown House [aka Ashton Villa] was the headquarters for the Confederate Army and later the Union Army (the Confederates surrendered Galveston in the fall of 1862 but retook it in January 1863 during the Battle of Galveston Bay). "

https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/tx/tx49.htm

Emile Pope

It wasn't a monument to the confederacy...

Carlos Ponce

And neither is the monument on front of the Old Galveston Courthouse. It is dedicated to the men who fought.....and lost.

David Hardee

Here is a project that could produce a monument to share a space at the courthouse or be at Ashton Villa

https://blackartblog.blackartdepot.com/black-art-news/texas-juneteenth-monument-finally-finds-a-home.html

Ted Gillis

No, Carlos my ancestors were not in Galveston in 1912, however they were in south Texas and northwest Florida, both areas subject to Jim Crow laws at the time. I have no family journals or correspondence to prove my point, however there is a Confederate Cemetery in Alvin. My grandfather’s sister and her husband are buried there. That may be a perfect spot for this statue, wouldn’t you agree?

Carlos Ponce

'Dignified Resignation' is at 722 Moody, Galveston, Texas. The nearest museum is the Galveston County Historical Museum at 722 Moody, Galveston. It is already at a museum.

Emile Pope

Even Mississippi removed the confederate flag from their flag...

Carlos Ponce

The Confederate Battle Flag does represent the Confederacy and Mississippi decided to remove it from their flag. The flag carried in bronze by the statue is the Naval Jack. The flags on the plaque do represent the Confederacy but not the statue itself.

Ted Gillis

I thought the Galveston County museum was on Market St. in some old bank building. Did I miss something?

Carlos Ponce

Yes, Hurricane Ike. See:

"Galveston County museum to relocate to new home this week " Nov 30, 2014

https://www.galvnews.com/news/local_news/article_6c138838-791a-11e4-8550-bba9bb69d54d.html

"Before Hurricane Ike, which struck in 2008, the museum was in the former City National Bank building, 2219 Market St. While no artifacts were damaged in the storm, the building was not usable."

"A team of volunteers has worked with the museum’s small staff all year to pack up the artifacts and get them ready for the move to the new space at the Galveston County Courthouse, 722 21st St., said Nikki Diller, curator of the museum."

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