So, when 75 percent of the polled American population wants to hear from witnesses in the impeachment and the Senate ignores the wishes of the population, it's clear the Senate doesn't care about the people.

I don't think the Senate represents the will of the American people, and if that is the case, we apparently no longer have a representative government and it may be time to consider starting over.

Senators, please respect the will of the people.

Michael Moriarty

Galveston

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(35) comments

Claudia Burnam

So, the Senate is supposed to do the job the House of Representatives so royally screwed up? Better study the Constitution.

Claudia Burnam

The above is mine, not Claudia's. E G Wiley

Don Schlessinger

[thumbup]

Gary Miller

75 % of Democrats wanted Trump impeached. That isn't the will of the people. 92 % of Republicans didn't want Trump impeached. Not the will of the people but the will of many more people. President Trump is dividing america into two factions. His faction of law and prosperity is growing stronger with every Democrat attack on him. Ten years ago pollsters said Republicans and Democrats were equally divided with 30 % of the voting population on each side. The most recent polls say that is no longer true. They say Republicans are now 35% while Democrats have declined to 24%. Independents were 40% of voting population and are now 41%. Independents were divided nearly by half but today they claim they are 66% pro trump and only 34% anti trump. If Trump keeps dividing America into pro law and prosperity factions or anti American factions we are in good shape.

Carlos Ponce

"75 percent of the polled American population wants to hear from witnesses in the impeachment...."- Impeachment was OVER when Speaker Nancy Pelosi handed their findings over to the Senate. The Senate does not impeach. The House has sole responsibility for impeachment according to the Constitution. In the Trump impeachment we heard from SEVENTEEN witnesses. Weren't you paying attention?

If Democrats want ADDITIONAL witnesses they can have them - BACK IN THE HOUSE. House Democrats can go down to their chambers, follow legal procedure and subpoena their little hearts out.

You know what? Republicans wanted additional witnesses too. But when they asked for them during the House proceedings WHERE IT BELONGS, Schiff, Nadler, Pelosi and the House majority, namely Democrats, DENIED the motion to get them. Your concern lies with the DEMOCRAT HOUSE MAJORITY, not the Senate.

So REPHRASE your Letter: "So, when 75 percent of the polled American population wants to hear from witnesses in the impeachment and the DEMOCRAT HOUSE ignores the wishes of the population, it's clear the DEMOCRAT HOUSE doesn't care about the people. I don't think the DEMOCRAT MAJORITY represents the will of the American people, and if that is the case, we apparently no longer have a representative government and it may be time to consider starting over. DEMOCRAT HOUSE MEMBERS, please respect the will of the people." - Now that follows the rules.

Bailey Jones

Senators ARE respecting the will of the people. Democrats are respecting the will of the 90% of Democrats who disapprove of Trump. Republicans are respecting the will of the 90% of Republicans who approve of him.

Miceal O'Laochdha

Bailey, that is probably an accurate way to describe what is happening in the Senate chamber; although it is a more generous view of the motivation of individuals involved than I can muster. What the Senators are also demonstrating is their lack of respect for the oath they took to protect and defend the Constitution (and by significant extension, the system of federal government used in the US). Nor have they even given lip service to their more recent oath to consider the impeachment case objectively. In that regard, I fear more harm is being done to the American system of government right now than was at risk during the Nixon period. They are motivated solely by the desperate desire to retain their own cushy positions in life.

Consider this: "The president is elected by the entire Russian people and stands above the system of separated executive, legislative, and judicial powers." That goal of Vladimir Putin for Russia is, in my opinion, is currently being well advanced in the US by the exclusively partisan actions of the legislative branch of this country in this impeachment debacle.

Bailey Jones

The threat of demagoguery leading to a dictatorship is always a real one. And if I thought that Trump had the skills to pull it off I would be worried, but I'm not. America will weather Trump just as it weathered Jackson. And 100 years from now historians will hold Trump in the same disregard as they do Jackson today. But I do think that Trump will leave the executive branch stronger, and the legislative and judicial branches correspondingly weaker - much to the detriment of the country. And I think he'll leave what's left of the Republican Party in ruins, morally and intellectually bankrupt. As bankrupt as his Atlantic City Casinos.

Carlos Ponce

If you hold Jackson in disregard then donate all your Jackson Bills to charity. Does Bailey ever say, "NO JACKSONS!!!! Give me two Hamiltons, four Lincolns or twenty Washingtons instead!" ? Replacing Jackson with Harriet Tubman was announced four years ago.....

Bailey Jones

"Replacing Jackson with Harriet Tubman was announced four years ago....."

Yep - apparently the racist-in-chief doesn't like the idea. It's being delayed until 2028 - after Trump is long gone. I say "racist-in-chief" in honor of Trump's hero, the unabashed racist and architect of native American genocide, Andrew Jackson. But maybe not it's racism, maybe it's just misogyny - since she would be the first woman on a bill. Or maybe Trump just doesn't think she's hot enough.

Charles Douglas

Mr.Jones, we don't mind you feeling the way you do. You have that right. That is the reason conservatives are in America, ...to offset Liberals who feel the way you and others do about the direction of this country. The fact that we can discuss these issues like we have, just exemplifies the way it should be done in a civilized way. I CAN remember back in the day when Congress operated on these principles so many years ago. However, like the Great horsemen of the prairie, and the Great Western Culture of the plains, those days seem to have passed into the annals of history forever! Very few people goes to Congress to serve the people who sent them there anymore, rather they are there to take money from powerful LOBBYISTS, and rich special interest groups in order to enrich themselves! Many of these groups are financed by foreign money & agents. Self enrichment become our Congress people's number one priority! One reason Term Limits should be a must.

Carlos Ponce

"Or maybe Trump just doesn't think she's hot enough." That's okay. Bailey Jones thinks Harriet Tubman is VERY HOT!

Bailey Jones

We're yin and yang, Charles. Like two guys trying to get a blind man down a country road. When he gets too close to the ditch on the right I yell, "Move left!" When he gets too close to the ditch on the left, you yell, "Move right!"

Mike Zeller

REPUBLICAN SENATORS JUST MADE HISTORY........."It is disgraceful that, for the first time in any impeachment — judicial or presidential — a Senate trial will refuse to hear a single witness. More troubling, several Republicans now acknowledge Donald Trump’s guilt in orchestrating a nefarious plot." (Senators Alexander, Portman, Rubio). When books are written and guys begin to talk, you will see many more Republican Senators try to cover their behind.

Gary Miller

Mike. Juries don't ask for witnesses. If any Jurist asked for witnesses that could be grounds for a mistrial. They consider the case before them. Presenting witnesses is the prosecutors job ( the House in this case ) before going to trial. Witnesses to be presented at trial will be listed as prosecutors witnesses or Defense witnesses before starting the trial. There is never the jury's witnesses.

Carlos Ponce

Mike Zeller posts, 'It is disgraceful that, for the first time in any impeachment — judicial or presidential — a Senate trial will refuse to hear a single witness." Whoever said that is ignorant. Mike Zeller, you're old enough to remember the Bill Clinton Senate trial. The Senate called no live witnesses. They used videotape taken of Monica Lewinsky, Vernon Jordan, and Sidney Blumenthal from the House hearings. On February 4, 1999 the Senate voted 70–30 that excerpting these videotapes would suffice as testimony, rather than calling live witnesses to appear at trial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

And from the Congressional Record:

https://www.congress.gov/crec/1999/02/04/CREC-1999-02-04-pt1-PgS1199.pdf

Was it live or was it MEMOREX? Democrats can't tell the difference !

We heard from 17 witnesses during the Trump Senate trial, also pre-recorded. But this time it was DIGITAL!

Mike Zeller

"Baldwin said every impeachment trial in Senate history has included witnesses.

The research backs up her claim, though there are a few things to note. The Clinton impeachment involved video depositions, not live witnesses. And four people impeached by the House didn’t have a full trial in the Senate.

But the 15 people who faced a full trial in the Senate all saw witnesses called.

We rate this claim TRUE."

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2020/jan/21/tammy-baldwin/Trump-every-other-senate-impeachment-had-witnesses/ [beam] [thumbup] [beam]

Carlos Ponce

So Mike agrees with me "The Clinton impeachment involved video depositions, not live witnesses." And the Trump Senate trial involved video depositions, not live witnesses.

So if you include depositions and video as "witnesses" then the current Senate had 17 witnesses in the Trump trial. Clinton only had 3.

So Tammy Baldwin's statement, "Every other impeachment trial the Senate has ever had, including those for other federal officials aside from the two presidential impeachments … has included witnesses," is true if she includes the current one involving Trump.

And your post includes "And four people impeached by the House didn’t have a full trial in the Senate."

To rate this as "True" was wrong. Author Eric Litke is really stretching here. The rating should have been "Mixed".

Mike Zeller

[thumbup] Carlos Ponce agrees, Trump Impeachment Senate trial is the only Senate trial to not have witnesses. Senate vote to not have witnesses 51-49. [beam] Thanks for making my case. [beam] That really wasn"t all that hard to understand, was it? [beam]

Carlos Ponce

"Trump Impeachment Senate trial is the only Senate trial to not have witnesses." So tell me Mike and tell the world which LIVE IN PERSON witnesses did the Senate have in 1999 during the Bill Clinton trial? History records NONE. They had 3 and in 2020 they had 17 RECORDED witnesses.

Mike Zeller

If Carlos Ponce doesn't know the difference between having witnesses and having live witnesses, I can't help him. He needs to Google it.

Carlos Ponce

Mike, Mike, Mike, I know the difference. No live witnesses during either the Clinton or Trump Senate trials. Question is.... Do you know?

Mike Zeller

Carlos, I hope you're just pretending to be confused. There were 3 sworn witnesses in the Bill Clinton Senate Trial, Monica S. Lewinsky, Vernon E. Jordan Jr. and Sidney Blumenthal. A witness does not have to be LIVE, looking the Judge in the eye, to give their sworn testimony, I don't understand why you are so confused and only think LIVE testimony matters. There will be NO WITNESSES (LIVE or otherwise) called in the Trump Senate Impeachment trial (51-49). ONLY SENATE TRIAL EVER, JUDICIAL OR PRESIDENTIAL, NOT TO HAVE WITNESSES.

Carlos Ponce

Same thing happened in the Clinton Trial that happened in the Trump trial.

1999 - The Senate viewed video of the House impeachment hearing from three witnesses.

2020 - The Senate viewed video of the House impeachment hearings from seventeen witnesses.

To post,"ONLY SENATE TRIAL EVER, JUDICIAL OR PRESIDENTIAL, NOT TO HAVE WITNESSES." is FALSE.

Didn't you watch the 2020 hearings?

Mike Zeller

Your confused, Carlos, what do you think (51-49) was all about?

Carlos Ponce

The 51 - 49 was NOT to allow any Live, additional, non-recorded witnesses.

FACT: The Senate viewed 17 witnesses on video monitors. That's a fact!

Don't believe me? Here are some examples:

"They [House managers] also played videos of Fiona Hill and FBI director Chris Wray....."

"Deputy White House counsel Michael Purpura presented video from the impeachment inquiry of three envoys to Ukraine...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_trial_of_Donald_Trump

"The impeachment managers during their arguments used digital slides, graphics, and videos, including footage from House impeachment inquiry hearings, remarks made by President Trump to reporters in London during a NATO Summit, and by Mr. Mulvaney during a news conference in the White House Briefing Room."

https://www.c-span.org/video/?468163-103/senate-impeachment-trial-day-2-amendment-debate-subpoena-white-house-staff-defense-department&start=10717

"Throughout his presentation, Representative Schiff used digital slides, graphics, and videos, including footage from House impeachment inquiry hearings as well as clips of remarks by the president and from White House Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney during a news conference."

https://www.c-span.org/video/?468322-1/senate-impeachment-trial-day-3-opening-arguments-representative-adam-schiff

Apparently Mike was not paying attention.

Charles Douglas

Well guys ...I don't know what to tell yall. I really don't. I CAN tell yall that your party is wasting time, money, and opportunities to do other helpful things for this country, by constantly trying to oust the President! Imagine you see my thumbs typing this: " YALL WILL NEVER GET TRUMP OUT OF OFFICE!" YALL got a better chance of resurrecting Osama than yall have of ousting President D.J. Trump! However, keep spinning your wheels accomplishing nothing while Trump is out there fighting for America. We will count see in NOVEMBER who the people think served America and deserve to stay in power.[wink]

Miceal O'Laochdha

That is exactly my fear Charles, that Trump will never leave office...

Bailey Jones

https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2020/01/29/800834919/fresh-air-for-jan-29-2020-could-an-election-meltdown-happen-in-2020?showDate=2020-01-29

Carlos Ponce

Would that be a dream come true for you, Miceal O'Laochdha? Trump will leave office in January 2025.

Miceal O'Laochdha

Will there be an election in 2024? Will an opening still exist for anyone else to become president in the US by 2025? That is what concerns me. Mr. Putin no longer needs the phony dodge of shifting to the Prime Minister's job for a term after every two presidential elections, as was previously required in Russia. He has fixed that annoying requirement and is now clearly their president-for-life. Will the same thing happen in the US during the next four years?

Carlos Ponce

"Will there be an election in 2024?" Of course there will be an election in 2024. You are listening to false propaganda thinking otherwise. Don't be a fool!

Miceal O'Laochdha

When our current president simply refuses to leave; who is it that will make him do so?

Carlos Ponce

Your premise is in error.

Craig Mason

We sure will [beam]

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