In regard to Paul Griner’s letter ("The government can't just order us around," The Daily News, June 20-21): In the 1970s, when I was young and foolish, I thought nothing of drinking beers while driving, then tossing the empties into my truck bed.

When I visited my aunt on the East Coast, she was appalled that Texas refused to regulate drinking and driving. Most of us see it her way now.

I remember my father, a decade earlier, cursing the nanny state and cutting the seat belts out of his car. Today, most Texans endorse the government requiring us to wear them to save lives and reduce everyone’s auto and health insurance premiums.

The same year that my dad took a razor to his belts, drug users howled when the government, trying to reduce acid casualties, criminalized the recreational use of LSD.

Against my objections, my elderly mother insists on visiting the grocery store. Though she wears a mask and gloves, she's among the most vulnerable to people who think it a matter of constitutional principle to refuse to wear masks in public.

This seems to be the position of Griner.

I wonder at what point a love of liberty and of Jesus curdled into a sour disregard for the wellbeing of our neighbors.

Madison Searle

Galveston

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(16) comments

Carlos Ponce

"Against my objections, my elderly mother insists on visiting the grocery store."

You can go for her with cell phone imaging as you walk around the store stopping, zooming in, checking prices while having a conversation with your mom on the other end. She'll tell you what to put in the basket. She will tell you how she checks the ripeness of fruit, vegetables, etc.

Gary Scoggin

I think you missed the point.

Carlos Ponce

There are always alternatives, Gary Scoggin. She can protect her mother by giving mom a virtual visit to the grocery store. Then comes the hard part: making certain the merchandise is not contaminated.

jimmy winston

PLEASE JUST WEAR A MASK PEOPLE ITS NOT THAT DIFFICULT

Gary Miller

Jimmy. Wearing a mask is a CYA bureaucrat ordering something even if wrong.

jimmy winston

Whats the worst possible outcome of you wearing a mask? A slight inconvenience? Even if they are wrong (they arent), a minor inconvenience to your everyday life is not a big deal.

Gary Scoggin

Jimmy - you have to understand MAGA reasoning. If you give in and wear a mask, they'll be coming for your guns next. Kamala Harris said so, I'm sure.

Carlos Ponce

I did not know that, Gary Scoggin! Thanks for the info.

Gary Miller

Jimmy> Why do you, in all caps, insist on proving you are lower IQ than the CYA bureaucrats that want healthy citizens to wear a mask. If healthy they can't infect anyone with or without a mask.

Bailey Jones

Gary, I guess you're not interested in the science, so I'll just keep posting it for people who are:

"The time from exposure to symptom onset (known as the incubation period) is thought to be three to 14 days, though symptoms typically appear within four or five days after exposure. We know that a person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 to 72 hours before starting to experience symptoms. Emerging research suggests that people may actually be most likely to spread the virus to others during the 48 hours before they start to experience symptoms."

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/if-youve-been-exposed-to-the-coronavirus

"There are reports of asymptomatic infections (detection of virus with no development of symptoms) and pre-symptomatic infections (detection of virus prior to development of symptoms) with SARS-CoV-2, but their role in transmission is not yet known." - CDC

"There is evidence that the novel coronavirus can be spread before an individual develops symptoms. " - National Foundation for Infectious Diseases

"The incubation period for COVID-19, which is the time between exposure to the virus (becoming infected) and symptom onset, is on average 5-6 days, however can be up to 14 days. During this period, also known as the “presymptomatic” period, some infected persons can be contagious. Therefore, transmission from a pre-symptomatic case can occur before symptom onset. " - WHO

David Hardee

Mr. Madison, Unfortunately, this thread has wandered away from your subject to the pandemic. Not unusual.

Mr. Madison, you did a fine job of running correctly thru the revisions to the practical aspect of living under social norms, back then (chose your period/era). The driving with open containers, seat belts, razor blades, drugs, and masks are all practical (material) elements of society. Then out came the total disconnect from the practical world with this “I wonder at what point a love of liberty and of Jesus curdled into a sour disregard for the wellbeing of our neighbors.” You jumped into the abstract.

If you want to examine the ‘well being of neighbors’ related to love of Jesus and or liberty for their effects you cannot logically use seat belts etc. Those are all practical items in society.

When you make reference to Jesus you left the particle world. And joining with Jesus the word liberty you were not talking about the encroachment on liberty from the restraint of a seat belt, right.

The thrust of your “I wonder at what point a love of liberty and of Jesus curdled into a sour disregard for the wellbeing of our neighbors.” is meant to create a thought pattern in the reader. The phrase “our neighbors” is your euphemism for “Society”. And the “curdled into a sour” part gives the reader your feeling of the result on the current condition of our society. I’m no long-distance mind reader but the content and rhetoric gave me that context interpretation for your cryptic sentence. Please comment to clarify your meaning if my interpretation is wrong.

So to discuss Jesus, liberty, and society requires examining changes to mores, ethics, and culture caused by us and our neighbor that resulted in the curdling. Rather than delve into the exhaustive itemizing and describing the long litany of curdling(s) they are easily summed by and encapsulated in these words and their literal meanings - "progressive liberal".

The word “progressive” means: - happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step. Politicians have bastardized “progress” to delude readers as meaning better.

The word “liberal” means: - open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values. Politicians give it the meaning of “all inclusive” which is effectively no boundaries/nothing matters.

Together these words create a thought pattern of – moving without boundaries, or motion without restrictions, or going anywhere and doing anything, or whatever makes you happy.

So my conclusion is that curdling is the result of “progressive liberal” philosophy and it’s practitioners.

Wayne D Holt

Here's a thought: Do you know why there is such determined resistance to compulsory mask wearing, besides the scientific disagreement about their effectiveness? Because it is compulsory. Because government at all levels has gotten so very comfortable with compelling Americans to do every thing someone in Washington, Austin or City Hall thinks is a swell idea.

Bailey Jones is one of the folks who writes in these blogs often on the topic of civic responsibility, care for our neighbors, willingness to sacrifice for others. These are all characteristics that make life worth living in any community.

What we have, instead, is government that for all intents and purposes claims to own you, body, mind and soul. It compels you to wear seat belts instead of providing them and letting you, the sovereign American adult, decide. It dictates what you can put in your body. Until recently, it claimed to tell you who it was legal to fall in love with; now it appears to be illegal to disagree with who the government says is a fit partner. Where is there a fertile field for individual responsibility to flourish when Leviathan government claims a monopoly of care for society?

Compunction breeds resistance; this is a natural law that has been known for at least 2500 years as Lao Tzu observed, "Where laws proliferate, the Way has been lost."

It is not indifference to allow others to make choices that we disagree with. Stores may bar those without masks, or allow only those without. We can run like crazy when someone without a mask approaches or embrace them. This is human choice.

One of the themes that I continually flog here is voluntarism. America needs to become a society of voluntarism rather than compulsion if we want things like charity and goodwill to grow. It forces us to be more persuasive in discussing our position instead of relying on bribing a congressman to insert special language hidden deep in a bill to gain what we want.

Those who say we can never run society this way are just making the case that we should not be allowed to vote on anything. If you are not allowed to choose what is best for yourself, why do you think you should be allowed to choose what is best for everyone else?

Terri Abraham

Wayne, I thought the reason the mayor and now the city council made it mandatory was because people weren't wearing a mask just because they were asked. There have been pleas to wear a mask for weeks, and a lot of people wouldn't. There wasn't anything compulsory about it then.

Bailey Jones

Maybe that's why it doesn't bother me. I don't wear a mask out of any government compulsion. I do it of my own accord and choice - I've seen the science and want to protect the health of myself and my community. My employer didn't implement working from home and require masks and other precautions because the government required it - they've seen the science and followed it out of concern for their employees. The people I know who have restaurants didn't go takeout only and require customers to wear masks because of county rules - they did it because they've seen the science and want to protect their own health and the health of their employees.

Unfortunately we live in world where a large segment of society no longer understands or accepts science. It's just "another opinion", as a recent letter implied. It's these people who have forced governments to require masks and other measures - because some people are just too ignorant to do what's in their own best interest, and just too selfish to do what's in the interest of their community.

Paula Flinn

Bailey, I agree with everything you wrote. It’s important for everyone in a public place to wear a mask. VP Pence came to Dallas today with Dr. Birx, and both of them said numerous times that if you go out in public, you should wear a mask. Everyone has a responsibility to their community to keep others as safe as possible. It’s not the time to be ignorant, arrogant, or selfish.

Bailey Jones

Yes, every responsible leader of both parties is saying the same thing - wear your mask, wash your hands, keep your distance, stay home as much as possible. It shouldn't even be an issue.

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