So, the price to consumers in the United States for products produced in China, including raw materials used to manufacture or assemble products in the United States, is going up 25 percent due to Trump's tariffs.

To suggest this will bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States is pure baloney, something this president is truly great at.

To the extent we could retool to replace this loss of supply, our labor costs, the wages earned by many of the Trump base, would need to be drastically reduced.

So, get ready for price increases and product shortages in the near future.

Making America great again (at the expense of working Americans).

Michael Moriarty

Galveston

Locations

(76) comments

Emile Pope

But it diverts attention from the criminal enterprise that refers to itself as the trump administration...

Carlos Ponce

"Chuck Schumer ✔ @SenSchumer
Hang tough on China, President @realDonaldTrump. Don’t back down. Strength is the only way to win with China. '

Gary Miller

Emile. The criminal enterprise was the Obama administration that used $4 trillion bogus money printed by the Obama treasury used to buy stock. Without that the Obama criminal enterprise lost every year.

Gary Miller

Emile. US economy is $26 trillion. China economy is $13 trillion. Raising tariffs from 10% to 25%, on less than a trillion $ costs us 1/26th as much as it costs China. Half as much pain for us as for China.

Carlos Ponce

Tariffs have been in use since President Washington signed The Tariff Act of 1789.
“Give us a protective tariff and we will have the greatest nation on earth,” politician Abraham Lincoln said in 1847. Later as president, tariffs were enacted to pay for the North's military campaigns.
President Trump prefers a level playing field not tariffs but will use them in bargaining a trade agreement.
China has imposed tariffs on American goods for decades leading to a huge trade deficit.
If you don't like tariffs buy American and urge manufacturers to do likewise.

Emile Pope

Seen the stock market lately? Last year the stock market ended the year lower than it started. Raising the cost of consumer goods for Americans and trashing the stock market isn’t winning, its sabotage...

Carlos Ponce

Before commenting on the stock market, learn something about it, Emile. Every time there is a drop we see you having a "The sky is falling ! " moment. Then when it rebounds - SILENCE from Emile. Mildly entertaining but not useful.

Emile Pope

Actually it was a crash. And it wasn't the first time. Was it a rebound last year when it was lower than when it started? With President Obama there was no need for a rebound because it never crashed. It just kept going up, up, up. And it was still going up until donald came up with these ridiculous trade wars. The disaster that is trump...

Robert Braeking

Emile. Yo. Take heed. Let the market drop and slip in at the bottom. The fundamentals are there. You could profit nicely if you play this right. Let the mutual fund managers lose their idiot client's money and profit off of the egg-head factor.

Carlos Ponce

"Actually it was a crash." WRONG!
Emile, it does not meet the definition of a stock market crash.
"A crash is more sudden than a stock market correction, when the market falls 10 percent from its 52-week high over days, weeks, or even months."
What happened doesn't even meet the definition of a stock market correction.
Today the Dow Jones closed UP +207.06
Dince January 1, 2019 the Dow Jones is UP +9.45%
Over 52 weeks it is UP +2.54%
https://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/
Anyone who claims it was a "crash" doesn't know what they're talking about.

Emile Pope

How was it during Obama's administration? Trying to excuse this president's incompetence is laughable. Crashing one day and recovering a third the next is a disaster.

Carlos Ponce

"How was it during Obama's administration?"
When Obama took office the Dow Jones was at 7,949
At the end of Obama era the Dow Jones closed at 19,732 rising 11, 783 points in 8 years.
It is currently at 25,532.05 rising 5,800 points in just 2.3 years since Trump took office. At this rate after 8 years.......[beam]

Emile Pope

As usual your facts are wrong. When President Obama took office, the stock market was still plunging downward. It got down to 6626 before his economic agenda took over. When he left office, the market was at 20,269. That's a rise of 13,643 points and his economic plan kept the market going even higher until trump's stupid trade war with China and our allies caused it to crash and burn. Last year the market ended the year lower than when it started. How many times did that happen with President Obama? trump's a failure...

Emile Pope

Let's talk crash. Four of the worst stock market crashes occurred last year with trump. Eight of the 13 worst crashes occurred under trump. The rest were under shrub Bush. And people still trust republicans to run the economy...trump's a bum.

Carlos Ponce

As usual, Emile has no idea of what he is writing. All my FACTS can be verified.
"When Obama took office the Dow Jones was at 7,949"
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028567287
"At the end of Obama era the Dow Jones closed at 19,732"
https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-Dow-when-President-Obama-left-office
"rising 11, 783 points in 8 years."
That's called MATH, Emile.
"It is currently at 25,532.05 rising 5,800 points in just 2.3 years since Trump took office."
At posting, that was the Dow Jones Average. Currently it has RISEN +120.37 to 25,652.42
https://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/
And it does not meet the definition of a Stock Market Crash so your statement "Four of the worst stock market crashes occurred last year with trump," is without basis or truth.
Definition: abrupt double-digit percentage drop in a stock index over the course of a few days
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stock-market-crash.asp
Over the last 5 days, the Dow Jones is down -1.22%.
To be considered a "crash" it has to be -10.00 or greater.
Year to date it is up +9.96%.
Once more Emile has no idea of what he is posting.

Emile Pope

2.5% over a year??? How much did the market rise last year? -5.6% That's NEGATIVE 5.6% The S&P was down 6.2 % and the Nasdaq was down 4%. How is that winning. Sounds a lot more like losing...

Emile Pope

"As usual your facts are wrong. When President Obama took office, the stock market was still plunging downward. It got down to 6626 before his economic agenda took over. When he left office, the market was at 20,269. That's a rise of 13,643 points and his economic plan kept the market going even higher until trump's stupid trade war with China and our allies caused it to crash and burn." That's not from some article. That's from the actual chart. I don't get people to do my research for me and give me their opinions...try it sometime...

Carlos Ponce

I backed all my statements and Emile provides??????

Emile Pope

You provided what someone else said. I got my information from the Dow Jones chart which had the numbers on the day President Obama was inaugurated and when trump was inaugurated.

Emile Pope

And oh by the way, you did a Barr...you took part of the writing that you wanted and ignored the rest. Here's what you deliberately failed to include "March 6th of 2009 it hit a bottom of 6443.27. On January 19, 2017 Obama's last day in office
the Dow Jones closed at 19804.72. The Dow went up 13361.45 points during Obama's administration." You took the title from the writing and nothing else. Your "proof" only supports my case!!!!!

Carlos Ponce

No links provided....[rolleyes]

Carlos Ponce

Dow Jones
http://www.dow-jones-djia.com/2009/01/21/market-close-wednesday-012109/
Market Close – Wednesday 01/21/09
DJI 8228.10 +279.01 (+3.51%)
A little math and on Inauguration Day January 20, 2009 DI closed at
8228.10 - 279.01 = 7949.09
And what did I post?
"When Obama took office the Dow Jones was at 7,949". That's right on the money by rounding.
And Trump took office January 17, 2017
The previous Dow was down -5.27 (-0.03%) at 19,885.73
http://www.dow-jones-djia.com/2017/01/17/the-dow-market-happenings-for-tuesday-january-17-2017/.
And what did I post ?
"At the end of Obama era the Dow Jones closed at 19,732"
Not exact but close, my source missed it by 153.73
And what did Emile post?
"When he left office, the market was at 20,269."
Missed it by 383.27, mine was CLOSER.

Carlos Ponce

And the date March 6th of 2009 is Neither the inauguration date nor the date he left office.

Carlos Ponce

using the numbers from the DOW JONES website:
It is currently at 25,648.02 rising 5,762.29 points in just 2.3 years since Trump took office. At this rate after 8 years.......

Emile Pope

More garbage. Your link proved my point which is why you only included the title. I’ll write slower...when President Obama took office the Dow was still free falling. It continued to drop until it hit 6626. Then President Obama’s policies took effect and it rebounded and went up more than 13,000 points. The fact that you took a title on a link and ignored everything in the article because it proved you wrong speaks volumes...I’m done wasting my time...

Carlos Ponce

Silly Emile! Your numbers were off. Using the Dow Jones web site like you insist, my numbers were either spot on or close - closer than the ones you obtained. You insist on using that 6626 number which was neither at the onset of Obama's administration nor at the end changing the parameters of the original post.

Gary Miller

The disaster that is Trump? This month three more large companies reported they are returning to the US. Every month another two or three. China market has lost half but ours only down 2 or 3 %. China economy is so much smaller than US economy they must give in. Buy American and avoid tariffs.

Gary Miller

Emile> How much of Obama's gain was due to the treasury printing $4 trillion of bogus money that was used to buy stock. Facture that in Obama lost more than any other president. $4 trillion bought by the Obama Treasury is more than you claim his DOW gained.

Gary Miller

Emile. you need some help. The DOW is not the #1 indicater for our economy. The bond market is twice as important. The Dollar index is as important. While the Obama "criminal" conspericy was stealing the value of our paychecks by buying equities with $4 trillion bogus money the bond market shrank more than the DOW increased. Obama created Cheap money to convince you he was legal. The Trump dollar is stronger than the Obama dollar and recovering from Obama's theft. Compare the charts of the Dollar index and the Bond market with the Obama DOW and finally learn how easy it was to convince people like you he was doing anything for we the people.

Robert Braeking

President Trump could cure cancer and Emile Pope would find fault. I love it when he comments on things he knows nothing about. Economics and negotiation is not his bailiwick, obviously. Hide and watch, Emile. You people said the same thing about negotiations with Mexico and Canada. Hmmmm How soon we forget.

Jarvis Buckley

How do you know this Michael?

Cindy Acosta

Hmmm respectfully, seems to me if Chuck Schumer is supporting President Trump maybe this is something we all need to look at as an important issue for all Americans. Especially given China has declared they want to obtain electronic dominance by 2025. Did you know 90% of all electronic mother boards are made in Asia and currently 50% of those in China that come to America. The concern is the bugs implanted that can be disabled at any given if China wishes. This affects everything from our military to household products. Something to consider for our country and our children going forward. Unless of course one believes AOC and Beto are correct that the world will end in 12 years and then why worry about China........

Bailey Jones

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Trump's trade war leads to a more favorable trade deal. His particular brand of blunder and bluster (the proverbial bull in the china shop) has served him well. There's a great interview about his amazing ability to dupe the financial world here - https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2019/05/09/721726619/fresh-air-for-may-9-2019-deutsche-bank-and-trumps-finances?showDate=2019-05-09

Emile Pope

Excluding the bankruptcies, sham university, defaults, failures, stiffed contractors, and pitiful credit rating so bad that no one would lend him money and he had to go overseas to get financing. Or the failed casinos, vodka, steaks, magazine, airline, and his losing 1 billion dollars over ten years?

Wayne Holt

America has been on the other tack for 30 years and you see where it's gotten us. Significant technology transfers before trade, outright theft of intellectual property, massive Chinese government subsidies of their industries and slave wages for a population that increasingly lives in a 1984-like dystopia.

"Benefiting American consumers" through one-sided trade deals have had us eating our seed corn for three decades. It's time for a different approach. Will it be painless? Of course not. But you can bet Chinese leadership is looking at the prospect of tens of millions of Chinese workers who will be producing less because we will be buying less. It's a problem for us...and an even bigger problem for China.

And Bailey is correct: Whatever you think of Trump, he has managed to move the ball in areas that past presidents, both Democrat and Republican, have not managed to do for many years. His style is part of the negotiating process he uses of stick and carrot.

We've been feeding the Chinese carrots for so long they think they own the garden. I say let's see how America rises to the challenge of producing what we need again. If we have fewer plastic throwaway geegaws in Walmart, I don't think that would be a tragedy.

Bailey Jones

It's worth knowing that a lot of the "theft" of intellectual property isn't theft at all (although that certainly happens). Corporations sign over the rights to their tech in exchange for access to Chinese markets - it's in their contracts. It's been that way since China opened up in the 90s.

Wayne Holt

Exactly, and that is why the first thing I mentioned was technology transfers. The Chinese make it a fundamental requirement that American companies open a vein before they are allowed to trade there, by way of forcing them to provide for free what America has had to work to achieve through fundamental research, applied sciences and proprietary processes. All given away just for the opportunity to be able to trade in that market.

So again, I am 100% in favor of a different approach and if that requires restricting Chinese imports, I'll just have to do without the next Chia Pet and poisoned pet food shipments from The Middle (Finger) Kingdom.

Jarvis Buckley

Emile. Get a life.

david Dumas

[smile]The tariffs are another way that the average citizen will pay for the tax cuts for the rich and large corporations.

Gary Miller

Tariffs hurt American consumers. Tariffs kill Chinese industries. The US economy is so much bigger than the Chinese economy we can cope with tariffs much longer or deeper than China. A 1% loss for our DOW becomes a 10% loss for China.

Wayne Holt

Tariffs give Chinese political leadership night sweats. Americans seem not to know that when pork shipments from the US are restricted in turn by the Chinese, our farmers are badly hurt, no doubt. But to hundreds of millions of Chinese, their big meal of the day just got a lot more expensive or a lot smaller...or both. That translates into political unrest.

Take a look at what happens out in the hinterlands when the Party starts to make life harder for most of their people. It is real, it has happened in the past and it is going to happen again if the Chinese insist on going to the mat on a lot of this. They believed that they could change huge swaths of informally agreed on trade points at the last minute and Trump would be so hungry for positive headlines he would fold.

Instead, he MORE than doubled down. I think it is going to take a bit of time for Chinese negotiating psychology to catch up to the fact that America may not be the same trade "partner" we were when others were at the helm. And to my mind, well past time to do that.

Emile Pope

More than a 1% loss. Making things up again...

Carlos Ponce

Yesterday the Dow Jones closed UP +207.06
Since January 1, 2019 the Dow Jones is UP +9.45%
Over 52 weeks it is UP +2.54%
https://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/
Emile post, "More than a 1% loss. Making things up again..."
Yes, Emile, you're definitely making things up.

Emile Pope

2.5% over a year??? How much did the market rise last year? -5.6% That's NEGATIVE 5.6% The S&P was down 6.2 % and the Nasdaq was down 4%. How is that winning. Sounds a lot more like losing...

Dan Freeman

Using nominal figures the US is 20.5 Trillion, EU is 18.8 Trillion and China is 13.4 T.
Using purchasing power China is 25.3 T, EU is 22T, and US is 20.5 T. All three are enormous. But for a trade war China as a centrally planned economy may have surprising leverage. They also own large amounts of US debt. Finally if they choose to opt out of the next t bill auction there will be a significant rise in interest rates, leading to our paying them billions per day.

Mike Zeller

[thumbup]

Robert Braeking

The ignorance of the left on this issue is underwhelming.

Gary Miller

Robert. Liberals can't be educated. They already know everything they are willing to learn.

Mike Zeller

A Conservative found a magic genie's lamp and rubbed it. The genie said, "I will grant you one wish." He said, "I wish I were smarter". So the genie made him a Liberal.

Carlos Ponce

Sir Winston Churchill: “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”
At your age, Mike........[scared]

Cary Semar

Carlos, that quote you attributed to Churchill is apocryphal.

Carlos Ponce

Variants of that phrase have appeared since the 19th Century. This specific one is attributed to Sir Winston Churchill:
https://www.azquotes.com/author/2886-Winston_Churchill
http://www.searchquotes.com/Winston_Churchill/Politics/quotes/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/taking-on-scott-garrett-r_b_578934
In paraphrasing the quote, Churchill created this specific one so it is attributed to him.
Variant from 1938: "If you aren't a liberal (or radical) at sixteen you haven't a heart. And if you're still a liberal at twenty-five you haven't a head!"

Jim Forsythe

"All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome."
(George Orwell)

Steve Fouga

I would add that if you're still a conservative at 60, you're not paying attention. [cool]

Carlos Ponce

Not true, Steve. I'm paying attention to TRUTH. It's out there.

Bailey Jones

"Not true, Steve. I'm paying attention to TRUTH. It's out there." I have a theory that conservatives are biologically unable to realize irony.

Carlos Ponce

As a Geometry teacher I go by definitions and provable theorems, postulates and corollaries.

Steve Fouga

I see you appreciate irony after all. [wink]

Steve Fouga

It's way too early to judge Trump's tariffs, and it's way to easy to decry a Trump tactic just because it's Trump's. Or for that matter, praise it just because it's Trump's. Let's at least give it more than a few days!

Carlos Ponce

Trump's doing more to counter the trade and tariff imbalance than previous presidents. Give him credit for that.

Steve Fouga

Exactly. He's trying, and doing what he thinks will be most effective. I think it has a better chance of working than not working.

This is a great opportunity for him to show, in economic terms, whom we view as friends, and and whom as competitors. For example, if it were me, I would NOT impose increased tariffs on European allies. I'd rather Trump draw a distinction between China and everyone else. If he applies tariffs universally or indiscriminately, the tactic won't be as effective and may cause blocs to form in opposition to our trade policy.

Emile Pope

As his endeavors in the past have succeeded? This president's a bum...

Carlos Ponce

Emile, again your post makes me laugh!

Steve Fouga

He's definitely a bum, Emile, but his tariff approach with China might work.

Jim Forsythe

Tariffs are just a TAX paid by You and I. The new Tariffs cost has not be felt yet, as the goods have not reached the stores!
If the customers in the USA are willing to pay the new price,Tariffs will not make a difference in the amount of goods we get from other countries.
"With US consumers continuing to demand imported phones, laptops and computer accessories, mostly from China, analysts said the trade gap was likely to widen further "

World events are making a difference in the amount of exports from the USA.
"Exports, which fell for a third month in a row, also weakened in response to slowing global demand and a strong dollar, which is making US-made goods less competitive on the international market."

We have increased imports, even after the last rounds of tariffs
"Chris Beauchamp, chief market analyst at the spread-betting firm IG, said Trump’s $1tn of tax cuts and higher government spending had boosted domestic consumption and increased imports. At the same time, the high value of the dollar had discouraged foreign buyers from purchasing US-made goods, “making a mockery of the White House’s push to reduce the trade deficit”.

Are we ready for the retaliation that China may do. China holds the largest amount of USA debt of any country and could sell it off and not invest any more money in the USA.

Wayne Holt

Tariffs are meant to dissuade consumers from buying from the country the tariffs are laid against and to 1) buy domestically if available and economic or; 2) in the alternative, to buy from a trade partner with which we do not have tariffs in place.

It does not "tax" Americans unless Americans simply must buy a Chinese manufacture. In today's economic environment, there are alternatives to that option, and we should avail ourselves of them.

At some point, the desire to obtain the absolute cheapest price for goods will be seen as a long-term losing, even destructive, strategy. We are literally shoveling funding to a country that would love to replace us internationally in trade, influence and military readiness. We've already given away a lot of candy. Do we want to turn over the deed to the candy store while we're at it?

Jim Forsythe

Some people do not want to buy from China, but the cost of domestic goods is just tooo high
If you are a normal family that has very little extra money, buying domestic goods may not be a option. It is estimated that the these Taxes will cost a family about $800 a year.
We imposed 20% tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber: This has work out how. We are still buying lumber from Canada at a higher cost because of this TAX.
Why are we buying goods from China? Remember when we would buy from Mexico, because it was cheaper. Then it become not cheaper than other places such as China. So the factories moved and now one of the leading places is China for cheap. If the company's move again, the cycle will start again in some other country.
With the new tariffs on soybeans, China will speed up the growing of their own soybeans which they started last year.They have also started buying soybeans from Brazil.
Soybeans are a very important crop to USA farmers. that could be a thing of the past. This is a crop that most farmers get 3 or 4 crops a year from, and makes a difference in making a profit for the year..
The money the USA gets from tariffs go where? To the people that manufacture these goods, or into the federal governments hands. If these practices are harming someone, the money should go to them and not to the Government.

Dan Freeman

Interestingly, the two largest trade imbalances with China occurred during the first two years of the Trump Administration. No wonder he is trying of staunch to outflow of capital.

Carlos Ponce

"...the first two years of the Trump Administration." And who negotiated those trade agreements?

Robert Braeking

Emile, I hope you took advantage of the panic. It is over now as the Dow has returned to normal. Have a nice day.

Emile Pope

Really? It was 26000 Friday. It went down to 25,236 Monday, which is more than 700 points. Now it's gone up 500. That's still more than 200 points than it was last week. Normal? Normal? Down 200 is normal?

Carlos Ponce

Emile, if you don't know how the stock market operates you really shouldn't post on it. It goes up, It goes down - that's normal.
2015 - "The Dow Jones industrial average was down 531 points at the close, or 3.1%, adding to a Thursday’s 358-point decline."
http://fortune.com/2015/08/21/stocks-plunge-china-markets-dow/
August 8, 2011 The Dow Jones fell -634.76 points in one day.
http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/stock-market-august-decline/
Following Obama's re-election the Stock Market fell 313 points, or 2.4%,
https://money.cnn.com/2012/11/07/investing/stocks-markets/index.html
It goes down, it goes up. It goes down again. It comes up again. That's normal. Think of a football game. Your team loses 12 yards in one play then makes it up with a 25 yard pass play.

Dan Freeman

So you agree the current strength in the economy is also due to the eight years of Obama policies. Hurray you have seen the light.

Carlos Ponce

Under Obama there was growth in the stock market but stagnant in wages, employment, job participation rates, etc. Too much over-regulation.

Gary Miller

The first time I bought stock the DOW was almost $1,000. Today it's almost $26,000. Gaining $25,000, or 25,000 %. in 50 years is pretty good. In between it has gone down hundreds of times but always, so far, increased an average of 7.7% a year, compounded.

Robert Braeking

Emile, This is arithmetic. Not even mathematics. 200 points is 8 tenths of 1% of 26000. When the Dow is down 200 points it is insignificant. In the '60s 200 points was a lot. Now it isn't.

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