I remember in a college class being asked to write a story with a surprise ending. Mine was about dangerous automobile drivers, the ending being “the drivers were female.” Sorry about that, true then?

So, here’s my new “surprise ending” story. It answers the question “What was the most important single act that kept Donald Trump from being our illegitimate president?”

During Trump’s reign as president, he had a following of Republicans who either worshiped him — those who believed the extreme right-wing propaganda and lies — or feared him — politicians afraid of primaries Trump could influence. He reigned and reigns almost as a god. He can do no wrong, and changing any follower’s opinion of him is like trying to change their religion.

Remember, he planted seeds of election fraud and controlled his herd of propagandists. And to this day not all, but most, of the Republican herd is still preaching the Trump lie. Trump tried everything — lies, court challenges, intimidation of subordinates and law-breaking. Almost no Republicans stood up to him; simply standing by while the courts prevailed to deny Trump’s allegations, which were lies.

The threat was real. Trump with his money and court savvy was a real threat. He had, and used, lawyers like we use air. Make no mistake about it, Trump could be the president today and with his lawyers and slow courts, could remain so for the four years, after which he may have declared himself “President for Life.”

Two failed impeachments didn’t faze him; hundreds of lies, caught on every one, didn’t hurt him.

Six years now since we asked to see and he promised to show his tax returns and he’s still successfully holding out. Everybody already knows why.

He simply didn’t pay taxes like you and I and wasn’t man enough to defend it. He hid behind lawyers instead.

Remember Jim Jones controlled his followers; 918 of them drank his poisoned Kool-Aid and died.

Remember David Koresh controlled his followers; 76 died in a fire with him.

Remember Adolf Hitler controlled his followers; millions died.

Remember Trump on Jan. 6 controlled his followers; many are in jail and many yet to go. Lucky for us, his select followers, that day, were a bunch of idiots.

In the final Trump days, it was all about how Mike Pence could save the day. Several of Trump’s lawyers made cases for Trump that the vice president, during the electoral vote certifications, could declare some votes invalid.

Late in the night of Jan. 6, Pence had the choice of succumbing to Trump, like the near majority of Congress, take the safe, coward’s way, declare several states’ electoral votes invalid and anoint Donald president-elect.

In the face of real danger, Pence, a real man and my unsung hero, did his job. History will record this extraordinary, heroic event.

Caution to the blind followers: Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

Harvey Cappel lives in Texas City.

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(110) comments

David Hardee

The author using Jones, Koresh and Hitler references in this article resembles some of the propaganda the was presented by Goebbels.

In today's society civility like morals has decayed to the point that any assembly of people is likely to erupt in mob actions. On Jan. 6 that is what happened. Trump never instructed any to invade the capital building.

The author of this article builds a scenario of his own imagination as what was the causes and effects making a demonstration into a mob action, insurrection. Insurrection is a figment of imagination constructed from the anise of those that had badgered Trump from the time he slayed the Democratic parties dragon Hillary.

Painting Trump with your brush of denigration you have exposed how shallow your knowledge and unfairly you have evaluated him and administration.

If you want to make judgements, make it on the direct acts. If you consider Trump's suspicion that the process of election in 2020 was corrupt and that his efforts to cause the results (his loss) to be scrutinized and brought into a process of using the STATUTES and PROCEDURES available was his attempt to be - your denigrating term - "majesty" your wrong. There were sufficient acts from the Democratic dragon and minions to have justified all critical thinkers to react with disbelief in the election as being honest.

Biden won (period). Celebrate the results of your vote. Celebrate the continuation of incivility, immorality that is decaying what as the best hope of humanity. Keep the progressive liberals in power and we will never MAGA.

domenico nuckols

Nice article very true.

David Hardee

You posted a direct comment under my comment, so it is a personal quip direct at my comment. Because you are chronic with these useless quips I will, out of irritation, waste a one time only response, here.

Nuckols, banter with your silly quips with others. These snide and silly enticements to get a reaction are your consistent pattern on these threads.

Though I responded negatively to this article and castigated the author he does deserve respected for the bravery of conviction and effort, unlike you.

Be gone with your nuisances.

Dalton Logan

It was nice of you Mr. Nuckols to praise Mr. Hardee's rebuttal of Mr. Capels whimsical opinion piece.

Carlos Ponce

[thumbup]

Paula Flinn

Mr. Nuckols praised Mr. Capels original article, not Mr. Hardee’s ugly diatribe, as you very well know.

Carlos Ponce

Mr. Hardee did not have an ugly diatribe.

David Hardee

Paula, I'll use no marital or gender salutation since I wish to not offend depending on how progressively liberal Paula Flinn has descended. I want you aware I have posted a comment that contains a lengthy detailed recitation on the elements that have brought our society on the path of corruption. I expect you will declare it a "hateful diatribe" without any specificity, as usual.

Carol Dean

[thumbdown]Seriously, nuckols, do you even know what you are talking about?

Ed Buckner

Mr Hardee is right about some of what he says, but his implication that incivility is the province of the left is remarkable hypocrisy. Those on the right on the Daily News forum, including Mr. Hardee, have been as insulting and gratuitously rude as any commenters I've seen anywhere. If I were a bible-believer and thought Mr. Hardee was as well, I'd recommend Matthew 7:1-5 to him.

David Hardee

Bailey - recrimination from you is like mana from heaven because it opens the requirement for in kind response.

My referencing the Progressive Liberals as the source of incivility is fundamentally correct on every level of intellectual conclusion. Be informed that the act of disturbing the peace comes always from the belligerent to the norm. aka peace. What is the norm when addressing a society's stable structure. This question has been answered several time in the history of our country with all kinds of acts against the norm at specific times and places. Whether the out come was positive or negative to the evolution of our society can be seen in the effects only with the passing of sufficient time. In summary a disturbance of peace or rebellion is caused by the belligerent. The belligerent in the modern era (some 60 years) has been the liberalism nested in the democratic party. Those progressive liberal decays in the morals and the loss of respect (civility) are so obvious I should not have to itemize. But for you I will mention a few and hope you can apply enough remembrances over 60 years to grasp that these are trend setter with the result of decaying morals and civility.

1 Our society was civil in - offering a respectful salutation or giving your seat to and elder. Today the expression of "sir or mam" or any designation of gender (even pronouns) are considered derogatory - by todays progressive liberals - belligerents.

2. ago the act of pregnancy out of wedlock was a shameful event. Today the wedlock itself (marriage - nuclear family and responsibility for children ) is passé and liberals want their village (big tent ) to be the guardian of society's progeny.

3. Larry Flint - hustler magazine and the supreme court bowing to the progressive liberals, everything is "free speech" definition, burdened society into constitutional dictate that pornography can be openly exposed to fertile minds and displayed without boundaries in publications, and in the entertainment that is consumed by the public. Jesus in a bottle of urine is tody an appropriate artistic display, disgustingly. These seemed small an inconsequential, but they were the progenitors of worst to come, right.

My bible belief is secure in only one aspect of the book. In the book the rendition of the life led by Jesus the man, is the best example to be emulated. All other human models presented under the banner of religion are flawed in comparison. I am not hypocritical. I am a failure that is not able to constantly and consistently meet my goal to be kind. Though flawed I have never strayed in the endeavor to emulate Christ the man - Jesus's supernatural name,

seems that you Bailey have strayed from what was the norm. Was not your father a man of a religious cloth - officially? Did you find your self a rebel to that norm. Is it your superior intellect that conclude God and religion was a fallacy. Seems you are still in rebellion as an atheist. Has Matthew's message perfected you to the point you can cast the stone on others.

Well you have me, Bailey. I am no longer kind to these belligerents and malcontents because the undeniable evidence is that their trending is decaying the fundamentals of what was the best hope for humanity. And unlike Jesus my destiny is not to go docile to my death to fulfil a prophecy. I will respond in like kind to these rebels, belligerents and malcontents when they obstruct Making America Great Again.

David

Ed Buckner

Your incivility is not improved, even though you mistook who called you out on it.

Ed Buckner

I also responded to some of your points in a recent Daily News column--about my father and me--but I guess you didn't read it.

Ed Buckner

BTW, Mr. Hardee, the column I mentioned about my father, my atheism, and me ran on December 9th--I think in the Faith section. You won't agree with it, probably, but it does include answers to some of the things you posted here. https://www.galvnews.com/faith/article_474d87bd-bc56-5d8b-bb62-eb7ca20a8e47.html

David Hardee

Ed, I went and read the article on your relationship with your father and your intellectual transition from Christian to an active atheist. The product of Intellect and logic in those areas where mathematical proof is not existing (sciences of physics), ergo, in the realm of the mystical mind (psychology) beware, because - “to the rational mind nothing is inexplicable, and the rational mind is the “faithful” servant”.

Family dynamics can never be clearly understood or explained no matter how well described. I make that conclusion because I cannot understand my family dynamics even when I dedicate myself to self recrimination for what I have done. The only honest valuation is the results over the span of time. My father 's to son credo was - if they are doing well whatever I contributed was at least not harmful - ergo success.

Certainly by applying my credo to your father, he was successful since you have done well and obviously are a man with a psyche that is healthy by your standards, is illustrated by the fact you are open and put yourself forward as an icon to be emulated. Your persistence in proselytizing also proves that point.

But Ed - you are the consummate disturber of the peace. Rejection of norms is not always disturbing the peace. But to reject the norm and then commit acts that will harm those that cleave to that norm is rebellion and intentionally disturbing the peace. Rebels exist when there are opposing parties on both sides of an agenda. Rebels that confine themselves to their agenda and grow without intruding on others (have borders and respect the borders of others) contribute to peaceful coexistence - and even when those in opposition cross the borders do so respectfully without disturbing the peace all stays tranquil. Belligerents and malcontents are rebels with intent to disturb the peace.

Norms are that which is the tradition over a sufficient span of time to be majority rules. Whether the norms are qualified as good does not matter because it is the majority rule. And the rebel has the option of coexisting or leaving the borders and found another society with new norms.

Our USA has norms aka mores ( mores are the customs, norms, and behaviors that are acceptable to the majority of a society or social group. ... Mores and morals have similar meanings — mores are the morals of a group or society itself. Nested in a culture are all the mores and norms and often codified with laws rooted in those norms. The progressive liberals are the belligerents that are disturbing the peace by corrupting the coexistent culture(s) that Made America Good and the best hope of humanity.

If you track the declines in mores, morality, civility, integrity over the last 60 years there is indisputable evidence the once coexistent minority cultures (women libs, blacks, homosexuals, non-Christians, indigenous, new immigrants of many nationalities,) were assimilating as and in citizens. Today with a sense of power from inclusion into leadership positions declaring they were oppressed in the past they have have consolidate in the “big tent” to become progressive liberal belligerents and are the source and cause of the destruction of the nuclear family, decline in education standing, acceleration of abortions, decline in church attendance, and the producing bigger Nanny state with more federal intrusion.

Each of these (some intended to be benevolent) have become outrageous failed federal government programs i,e, -Social Security was established in 1935, 86 years to get it right and it is broke, -Fannie Mae was established in 1938 71 years to get it right and it is broke, - War on Poverty started in 1964, 57 years to get it right,

Then came the “Great Society” -$1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more, -Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965, 56 years to get it right and broke, -Freddie Mac was established in 1970, 51 years to get it right and it is broke, -The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before, 44 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

The video that Jack provided link to is an illustration of how all of our young people have because they have no icons, or mores to use as role models. Those attitudes of the young did not suddenly appear. Their attitudes are the product of 60 years of erosion in beliefs in the traditions of the pre-1960’s majority. The Atheist rebels along with progressive liberals are the primary culprits for the erosions.

David

P,s, - distinguished historian Heather Cox Richardson has written a TRUE rendition of a one sided dissertation. That kind of presentation is singing to the choir and not persuasive to a critical thinker. Read it again and put causes and effects to the process of absorbing the message. Also curious that the bio of Heather is so remiss in info - it is nothing but her resume/promotion of her as and scholar.

Ed Buckner

A long, reasonably civil, and reasonably thoughtful reply from David Hardee, but quite wrong-headed in some respects--deserving of a longer and more careful reply than i have time for now--but I will return to this.

David Hardee

Ed, In your reply I have a request. To satisfy my need to have a role model to evaluate myself against I have made the life of Jesus the man my role model - and fail often.

Were I an atheist where would I find and who do you suggest I use as a role model? Seriously!

David

David Hardee

Here on Jan. 6th the rhetoric from the Biden administration castigating those that are suspicious of the quality of his election and have seen the disgusting results of his performance makes Biden and his minions qualified as at minimum deceitful. Corresponding with that deceit the progressive liberals have inserted into the judicial a cabal of district attorneys who are bastardizing the system and laws with selective prosecution. The SWAMP is flourishing, society is polarizing, and we have literally elected self inflicted corruption.

That said, here is the response to in this thread by Mr. Buckner.

There is a central nerve throughout our society that is traditional, still. That central nerve is made up of the mores, morals, and culture of the majority of the population. That central nerve is what is being eroded by the acts of a dominant progressive liberal (president, congress, senate) federal power. It is a cabal made up of the malcontent minorities in our society that votes these progressive liberals into leadership. This cabal has reached power through the Democratic Party’s wrong headed legislation intended to be benevolent, sympathetic to the malcontent's perception of being victimized. These malcontents are non-traditional and highly identifiable subsets of our society as dependent on the federal, NGO, public assistance or practitioners of abnormal lifestyles.

The axiom bellowed by the progressive liberals is that the malcontents and abnormal lifestyles are caused by failure of the society not having compensated or supplied what would have made the malcontents satisfied.

The Democratic Party has produced many revisions and or reimagined the traditional mores, morals and culture in an attempt to attract these malcontents with benefits, successfully. Federal acts on behalf of these malcontent had the power to cause the actual path of deterioration in the central nerve of traditional society’s mores, morals and culture.

Mr. Buckner, very instrumental in our inability to have a dialogue that stays on a common path is that we have opposing understanding on what is an incident in society and what only will actually make the effect of an evolution on a society’s norms and culture. Specifically note that I have restricted myself to only that span from the end of WWII to the current day. Also confined to commenting on deteriorating society’s evolution, to the macro that absorbs all of our society’s subsets into a whole. And that when I use majority norms and culture it is that which is still dominant regardless of any ABNORMALITY of any or all minority or subset dwelling in the whole of our society.

Ed, I purposely declined from referencing any subset or individual (drop names) because the influences of an individual or subset, or leader of a subset has NO sufficient power that can MAKE a whole society change and cause an evolution to keep a progression of the change to accelerate.

You, Ed, often insert individual names or names of leaders of subsets into our debate as instrumental in MAKING change in society. But actually these individuals/leaders are but precursors and simply influences in sparking movements toward MAKING the federal act that has the power to create a change in the whole of society.

Each time any individual/leader is introduced to the debate it creates a tangent off the central point, society as a whole - because it infers that tangent had significant swaying force on society’s norms. In actuality MLK, Larry Flint (which I used because it was the case name on the Supreme court’s decision that did have the power to create universal change) were simply sparks to the eventual federal act.

MLK, Susan B. Anthony, and even those right wing (difficult to find the name of the leaders of the Proud Boys, BLM activist organizations) activist/leaders/organizers are incidental even though their prominence did eventually invoke the power of federal acts. Hope my point that these individuals/leaders were only belligerents that disturbed the peace, were incidental.

The indisputable conclusion that only the power and force that will change the society in whole is the federal acts - i.e. executive orders, legislative act, Supreme court opinions, and constitutional amendments.

You may reject my conclusion that progressive liberal federal acts, even though intended to be, at that moment benevolent, are and have been the only event to cause societal changes that, over time, that can be used to track cause and effect of degeneration of the mores and culture of our society. If you do reject my conclusion it is incumbent that you do so by presenting the causes and effects you assign to the obvious erosion of our morals and culture. Or if you do not agree that the mores, morals and culture of our society has deteriorated then give some examples of improvement in examples.

To support my position let me submit - As an example, let me draw your attention to the 21st amendment and the repeal of the benevolent intent of Susan B. Anthony’s prohibition. That is an indisputable Federal act gone wrong, right?

Another is that the Flint

So, I ask that we let the debate be isolated to only the evolving changes over the duration from the end of WWII and restricted to that which can only have a cause and effect on the whole society, from federal acts.

Rather than restating my prior dissertation (which is available in this thread) on the events and activities that will support my conclusion that the progressive liberal Democratic party is the generator of the disturbing the peace and setting in otion what culminated in acts of the federal that change society’s and over time has denigrated our mores and culture. I summarize the federal acts of most significance. Bear in mind each was enacted under a progressive liberal administration, and with a benevolent intent,

Beginning at the end of WWII, society was relatively peaceful, coexistent, civil and traditional. Incidental events were happening that seriously affected society. For edification I here chronicled a few - women in the workforce - occasions when the segregated units of soldiers had deadly confrontations, internment of Japanese nationals, and the segregated building of public housing, segregation of races, all were unsettling influences. Yet general tranquil and traditional cultures and mores were stable. Across all of society marriage, religious worship, schools, and births were stable. In 1944 the popular GI bill of rights was initiated to benefit/reward all soldiers. This statement might sound absurd but in the sphere of federal “equality for all” any act that particularizes any segment of society is discrimination. Consequently this gratuitous bill actually segmented society with and by entitling only those that were in uniform during the war effort. The duplicity of federalism in the treatment of the wwI veterans is shown and also the sacrifices of the at home society honored by the GI bill. Actually the GI bill precipitated a cascade of civil unrest when the blacks were having problems with getting/qualifying for the benefits. So the bottom line is that when the federalism issue a particularize act it is discrimination, period.

In 1954 society began the movements against segregation and federal troop forced integration of Arkansas schools by Eisenhower, a federal act. Civility and social traditions were severely in chaos in the 60’s. The Constitution was amended several times with benevolent intent. Each time the amendment particularized our society with some inclusion or excursion to a segment of society or a conduct by a state or organization. Each segmentation gave the force of the federal government the power to insert into society a tentacle for control on conduct of the culprit. Each time a federal bureaucracy was established to manage the society. The society interpreting the intention of benevolence of the Democratic Party increasingly gave consent at the voting booth. The federal government was growing in cost, size and power expotentialy. Benevolence and benefit are hand and glove to a victimized of some segment of society. Who would suspect a motive in federal acts of benevolence as duplicitous. Who could identify the unforeseen circumstances that would deteriorate society. Only over the passage of time would the revelations become obvious that nothing is free and can be harmful. Wisdom requires experience over time and the events of both success and failures. Knowledge

Now let's analyze the 80’s Larry Flint decision's effects over time. The issue was freedom of speech. Tradition was speech was free unless offensive, disturbs the peace. Traditionally speech was the oral transmission of thoughts. Publication of words in a written form was subject to scrutiny and litigation but not utterances. The Supreme court decision exploded the definition of speech to encompass physical objects. Under the decision freedom of EXPRESSION in any form is speech.

It is evident that all social engineering by the Federal government is a prescription for inequity and the source of disturbing the peace and offensive civil unrest.

David Hardee

We can go another round in our battle for a conclusion, Buckner.

The easiest rebuttal is - to reinitiate this conclusion - The condition of WHOLLY fragmented society today compared to the time when the WHOLE society was unified at VJ-day was last as to the mores, morals and culture show that over those years from 1945 to today have severely deteriorated. That conclusion “severely deteriorated” is indisputable. What has the POWER to create a change in the society as a WHOLE is only those ACTs by the triumvirate of the FEDERAL. The babbling of a leader, the acts of a group, the sermons of all the ministers, the burning of a city and natural disaster are all incidents that only INFLUENCE, but without the POWER of a FEDERAL act remain incidents.

Buckner, your correct there were gratuitous benefit and elevations for your particularizing (Women, men, whites, blacks, lesbians, gays etc. ) subsets of society. YES in their economics, housing, schools, and material objects they achieve improvements. As the result of FEDERAL acts conditions of certain subsets of society experienced monetary improvement but even this was by the FEDERAL PARTICULARIZING (discrimination). Why is it so hard to understand that there is no level of equality when there is a Force that makes an imbalance in the society, whether it is in economics or in the culture of a WHOLE society. The politician’s a rising tide raises all boats

My example of the GI bill seems to have been uninterpretable by you as an benevolent attempt that had unforeseen circumstances that resulted in traumatic social effects. Every FEDERAL act that particularizes is discriminatory. The original intent expressed by the founders and codified as best they could, in the Constitution, because they feared the power of the FEDERAL, has come to be the cause of deterioration of society. The FEDERAL is a swamp that we have literally elected and as a result we are suffering self inflicted corruption.

You want a litany of examples that are “realistic and meaningful” means you cannot see the forest for the trees. I assumed that one who could struggle through the concept of Gods and religions to arrive at the conclusion of ascending to self dignity is the only real deity would again ascend above a tit for tat arguing on INCIDENTS.

Though you cannot or will not accept that the INCIDENTS are simply influences and that without the POWER of the FEDERAL cannot MAKE the change I here resort to the circular argument you so eagerly want to avoid the indisputable conclusions.

You Buckner, claim “religion, Hollywood, education, political or cultural movements, etc., can “change in the whole”. A fact is that each of these have by a FEDERAL act been elevated into a bureaucratic required oversight and control. Religion is declared freedom, Hollywood was unleashed from the Hayes rule and give total freedom by Larry Flint opinion, Education was put under the control by the “Great Society” (the “Great Society” usurp the STATES prerogatives on the Health, Education and Welfare in one FEDERAL act), and the political arena was dramatically affected and made into a PARTICULARIZED war between the subset of society when the Constitution was amended to declare that races, genders, sexual were specically identified as parts of the WHOLE. As to culture - Culture defined - the ways of life including arts, beliefs and institutions of a population that are passed down from generation to generation. - it is the amalgamation of all the above. Ergo it is affected by any FEDERAL act that was done to any of its elements (arts, beliefs and institutions).

Again I submit that only the POWER of the FEDERAL can make and sustain a movement on the society as a WHOLE. Ergo is responsible for the path our society has been on from the last unified point in time WWII till today’s condition of a denigrated society respectively.

Here, Buckner, are a few tit for tat INCIDENTS to ponder. These are directly related to the quality of mores, morals and culture - not the prosperity or material lives.

Mores defined - the essential or characteristic customs and conventions of a community.

The most deteriorated is on MARRIAGE and its creation of a nuclear family which provided children with the guidance and security of biological parenting.

Morals defined - a person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.

conduct related to vulgar, lewd and promiscuous behavior in public has deteriorated severely!

The Hayes rule was abandoned - entertainment floods public with nudity, glorifying unethical, brutality, criminal activity.

The Supreme court Larry flint decision has untethered public display of any lascivious publications, gross activity, deprecation of honored icons,,, as protected under free speech.

Note - What is ludicrous is that the judicial system has declared that even the utterance of racial epithets or uttered threats can be prosecuted as hate crimes.

Culture defined - the ways of life including arts, beliefs and institutions of a population that are passed down from generation to generation.

Participation in religious institutions declined.

Delineation of activities restricted to genders in clubs and sports destroyed.

Self identification as a gender has been convoluted.

Attendance in unsupervised playground activities where children freely interact for learning to socialize and to burn off calories has stopped and obesity has become prevalent.

These are but some of the deteriorations that can be directly connected to a FEDERAl imposition on the personal lives of the citizens. I.e the bureaucracy’s that are in constant pursuit of justifying their existence hover over society seeking to swoop in on their lives at the slightest of opportunity.

This is an illustration of bureaucracy self preservation by overreach.

Any divorce or family disturbance or disciplinary action can and often does produce an invocation that will bring CPS, a division of HHS or one of its NGO tentacles into action. KidsAtRiskAcion (KARA) an NGO reports 37% of American children are reported to Child Protective Services by their 18th birthday (African American children are reported at 54%), for a total of 4 million child maltreatment referral reports received.

Most disturbing and disgusting is that obvious difference and effects on children of the nuclear vs out of wedlock single parent. Respect, vulgarity, and dedication to civility in the public venue is easily distinguished between the two. Children are the predictor of the path of a society. The village of LIBERALISM is the bane of a better future.

Carol Dean

Curious as to why you are always referring to the Bible when you don't believe what it has to say?

Ed Buckner

I've made myself pretty clear on that a number of times: I don't think the Bible is anything but a work of men--full of mythology, erotic poetry, often distorted history, some pretty good stories, some abominable moral ideas and some pretty good ones, thousands of literary and linguistic antecedents, etc. A book, or really a series of them, well worth reading and knowing about--but not an authoritative guide. I cite it for believers to ask them why, if they accept it as authoritative, they don't follow it. The Bible is quite culturally important and I do believe some of what it has to say--just not that it is the WORD OF GOD. I strongly support the right of others to treat it as the word of the god in whom they believe if they think that it is--but not to use governments to impose it on others. I support freedom of conscience/religious liberty ardently.

David Hardee

Reply to Carol Dean's question, "Curious as to why you are always referring to the Bible when you don't believe what it has to say?"

Only do to a prior comment that brought God, or religion, or bible into the thread will I use them in a response. I always avoid their use otherwise.

David

Ed Buckner

I assumed that comment was directed to me, not Mr. Hardee. (If I was wrong, apologies.) I certainly am not competent to reply on behalf of Mr. Hardee.

Carlos Ponce

Remember, Carol Dean, even Satan quoted from the Bible but took things out of context (much like many of our Libtrolls tend to do).

Have a Blessed Day!

Have a Happy New Year, Prospero año y felicidad!

Ed Buckner

Remember, Carol Dean, that believers and nonbelievers alike can quote scripture. (As there is no reason to think there is a Satan--only Satanist think there is--it's better to stick to human beings quoting it.) And anyone can distort or take out of context quotes from any book or document. The meaningful test comes when anyone asks a believer whether he follows the Bible and the believer says "Yes" but claims the instances where s/he doesn't are because another has taken it "out of context"--can the believer make a case that that has happened, or is the believer just choosing what to believe and follow? One can declare that he opposes abortion because the Bible says abortion is murder, for example--but cannot produce any text to support that.

Carlos Ponce

Harvey Cappel 's column is filled with Leftist propaganda and fabrications but even the simple minded have their say, so WRITE ON! Harvey.

Ed Buckner

Harvey Cappel says it well. And some of the Kool-Aid drinkers are already weighing in with wild irrationality, as expected.

Charles Douglas

People like the author of this cesspool of crap has to come out with feces in print like this Op-ed depicting Trump in a negative light, because that's all the LEFT have at this stage of the game! Think about that now. How can you praise and stand up for what Joe Biden has done in one year of hiding in a hole somewhere! The man is an utter embarrassment before the whole world! The man is like a trained monkey in a peanut gallery. Our enemies and allies alike are laughing at him with disdain!

This author thinking he is some type of "PR" wizard, or " Fix-It" man.. come bursting up here denigrating, vilifying, and excoriating Donald Trump & his supporters! He goes on about drinking kool-aid and such! I tell you what, I quit drinking kool-aid when I acquired enough sense to walk off the Democrats' mind controlling "SLAVE PLANTATION" designed to keep African-Americans and Hispanics poor, busted, disgusted, and dependent on government subsidies in order to harvest their votes and political support!

They fell so low in values, and character, they are now storming our schools trying to poison the minds of little WHITE KIDS into thinking they are inherently evil because God created them WHITE, and teaching little African-Americans and Hispanics they are inherently inferior because they are NOT WHITE, and that somebody owes them something! Yeah that's right! Isn't that why they are trying to pay minority teachers in Minnesota more money than WHITE teachers now, on the basis of SKIN COLOR? Is that REPARATIONS? Should I be.getting some well off WHITE Democrats house? What is this garbage?

This author and many like him have been ordered to create a diversion, a sh#&- pit of propaganda if you will! That's all they got! They entered a Jersey Mule in the Kentucky Derby, then "Fixed" the race where the mule would win! Now they have to live with the consequences of their actions! The Jersey Mule is on full display before the world, and every nation is laughing at him trying to run against thoroughbreds of other nations in races the Radical Liberals cannot fix, so now they are back to vilifying Trump! This is all they got! Somebody should remind them that you can run, run fast, and run hard, but you cannot run away from the truth!!!!

What is the truth? First, we have a RACIST, KKK affiliate who hung out with members of the Ku KLUX Klan for decades and helped them out by crafting and passing Anti-African- American laws as a Senator in Congress. We have a man who promised to heal and unify this nation but instead, he has divided, usurped the laws of the land, and the Constitution in order to please his ultra, wopped minded base, who wants to transform and transmogrify America into another Red China! He has, by his ignorance, and stupidly, caused the deaths of thirteen American military people for NOTHING man, and is busy purging out those from the ranks or our military, and out of the military academies who seems to be those who think for themselves and not what some fool prints on paper, or whisper to them!

We have laws governing integration ...and this man does not bother to enforce them, in fact he has opened up our borders to the world, so anybody can come in! He has no ability to think straight because his head stays so far up XI JINPING rear end he can't! This mule is an embarrassment and I will quit voting before I would support a man with his background, pedigree, along with his embarrassing, catastrophic performance so far! Lastly, I would like to inform some and remind others that, A MULE, IS A MULE, IS A MULE, .......and A MULE WILL ALWAYS BE A MULE! If you cross breed a mule what do you get? A JACKASS! ( HUNTER ).

Carlos Ponce

"cesspool of crap" - colloquially expressed and probably will offend some but very accurate.[thumbup][thumbup]

Carol Dean

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

Bailey Jones

Too late - that Kool-aid has become DNA, a dangerous mutation in the genes of the Republican Party. It's cancerous, and it's terminal.

All that's left are the hollow men, the stuffed men.

This is the way the Republican Party ends - Not with a bang but a whimper.

Ed Buckner

Ah, Bailey Jones--another T S Eliot/The Hollow Men fan. Good point about the DNA.

Sharon Stratman

Funny how education, and libraries, and used and useful minds show themselves.

George Laiacona

Trumpers will continue to deny that fact that on public TV the wannabe Dictator Trump sent the goons to the capital to do only one thing, that is to destroy our democracy and attempt to set him up for President for life. The intelligent American voters will remember January 6th and vote out of office all of the Republican traitors they can.

Carlos Ponce

Come mid-terms, a Liberal Congressman, Senator, legislator will be a rare bird.

Paula Flinn

Mr. Cappel is correct. VP Pence followed the Constitution and certified the electoral votes. Do not forget the role Speaker Pelosi played in making sure the votes were certified before returning to their homes that night. The strength of character of both VP Pence and Speaker Pelosi thwarted President Trump’s unlawful claim to the majority of electoral votes and the Presidency in the election of 2020.

Carlos Ponce

Liberals would like to drive a huge wedge between President Trump and Vice President Pence. While the President disagrees with Pence's decision he understands why this path was taken. They get along nicely.[beam]

Maris Helfrich

KUDOS to you, Harvey! You have done your civic duty PLUS with this article!

Yes, we are at the brink with this nonsense and dangerous reality hovering over our nation and its people! God help us! People like you, Harvey, give me hope. You have my full support with this article and may it do good for intelligent, responsible, compassionate, involved, caring, unifying, God-centered ....and, yes, LOVING people! As a Christian, I ask, "What would Jesus do?" It definitely wouldn't be Trump's way!

Carlos Ponce

Jesus will have the final say in this. It will defiantly be in President Trump's favor. God doesn't like the Jackal nor the Hyena who were placed into office under falsified results.

Gary Scoggin

Carlos, it’s been asked many times here - and only vaguely answered,if at all - what is the scriptural basis for declaring God and/or Jesus prefer Trump over other candidates?

Carlos Ponce

God's word. Read the Bible on heeding what His prophets reveal.

Craig Mason

Carlos God and or Jesus Christ are antithesis of Trump and everything he represents. Jesus Christ surrounded himself with the poor and afflicted while Trump castigates them. Trump showed us who he was in the primaries, by bribing porn stars, getting caught on tape bragging about sexual assault. Maybe you like folks who forcefully grab people by the p@ssy. Maybe you enjoy having yours grabbed, I don’t know. As a wise person told me once, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Charles Douglas

I suppose you are saying God would rather settle for a RACIST KKK affiliate con man, who champion, supports, and encourages the mass murder of the innocent by abortion or infanticide than he would one who bragged about being a womanizer during the primaries? Thats what you saying?

God sometimes uses pagan people for his own purposes. He did that with King Cyrus, and he was anything but Godly! He did the same with Nebuchadnezzar, and he surely was not a saint! Don't get me started! Joe Biden is a fake, and a hoax, who turned his back on the military, border patrol, on unions, and medical workers! He lied about closing down the Virus to get elected, he is now saying closing down the Virus is the Governors' job! He said he would unite the country in order to get elected, we are more divided now than at anytime since the Civil War!

He has weaponized the Justice Department, the CIA, NSA, SECRET SERVICE, and he has the FBI investigating school kid's parents as enemies of the nation! He is withholding Virus antibodies from Florida, Florida citizens, because he hates the Governor of Florida, and he discriminates on White Farmers at the urging of his Radical advisors. If it ever was a inclnation to start another Civil War, I would think we are seeing it now!

Crime and criminal behavior all over the country, with judges and juries afraid of the same criminals, looters, and rioters, they are supposed to put in check! Trump was a womanizer, so what! I was a half [censored] one myself, ...but I never was KKK affiliate, who made laws to jail African-Americans unproportioned to others who committed the same crimes and neither was Trump! They tell me that Hunter Biden's favorite name for "No Drama OBAMA" was that word that no BLACK man wants to be called! If Hunter was using it so was Joe! They both are a disgrace!

Gary Scoggin

Carlos, you wrote, “God's word. Read the Bible on heeding what His prophets reveal.” While I appreciate the reply, it lacks the same specificity of your previous responses to the question. As Donald Trump is not mentioned by name in the Bible, which particular scriptures directly refer to him? And given there are prophets of all stripes, which, if any, am I to take seriously. Your responses assume this is self-evident. If so, I certainly can’t discern it. As you claim to be a faithful witness, I am asking you to spread your revelation as explicitly as you can. The prophets of the Old Testament were not afraid to be direct and to go on the record against all who may oppose or even ridicule them. Do you have that same faith and courage?

Carlos Ponce

"God and or Jesus Christ are antithesis of Trump and everything he represents." That's a lie, Craig Mason.

Carlos Ponce

"As you claim to be a faithful witness, I am asking you to spread your revelation as explicitly as you can." Listen to His prophets. I provided a list in a previous forum only to be ridiculed. So far, they're batting 1000.

Bailey Jones

Gary, I was going to comment that SF Troll doesn't get his revelations from scripture, but rather from his ridiculous youtube prophets. But he beat me to it.

Here's my prophecy - DJ Trump will never be elected to office again.

I'd put money on it but we know the Trumpsters don't pay.

Carlos Ponce

God will have the final say, not Baaley the Libtroll.

Gary Scoggin

"I provided a list in a previous forum only to be ridiculed. So far, they're batting 1000." - Fair enough but searching through your thousands of posts over hundreds of topics is a bit of a daunting task when you apparently have the information readily available. I promise no derision (although I can't make promises from others.)

I am interested in how one can know whether a prophet is true or not, especially 2000 years after the earthly life of Christ. (For example, the entire religion of Islam is based upon the teachings of the person their adherents consider to be a prophet. (And this is an example, not a rabbit trail to head down here.))

Isaiah 12:2 says, "Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD, the LORD himself, is my strength and my defense; he has become my salvation.” So I ask you to be not afraid. I may not agree with your choice in prophets but I will treat your answer with respect.

Carlos Ponce

"I promise no derision (although I can't make promises from others.)"

The others will and have: Dec 30, 2021 6:00pm

You DO have a web browser, right?

Gary Scoggin

Carlos - Out of courtesy, I am interpreting your question, "You DO have a web browser, right?" as a rhetorical one and not a sarcastic or serious one. The answer is, yes, I certainly do,

I understand if you are wanting to avoid the "ridicule" (as you put it) of others. However, lacking a response to my question on sources, I am unable to consider your linkages regarding God's plan for Trump and his return to power with any credulity. In the event you change your mind about explaining your rationale, I will continue to ask this from time to time.

My bigger question remains, should you decide to address it: With so many people claiming to be prophets, how does one discern a true, God-inspired one from a false prophet? Personally, I believe that true prophets, while they may exist, are few and far between. The Bible lists only a couple of dozen or so (depending on your definition) over about a 1500 year time period. It's possible, I suppose, that there were others that didn't get mentioned.

Again, I am asking to understand, not as fodder for ridicule.

Carlos Ponce

"The answer is, yes, I certainly do" Then use it to find what I posted. Now the question is, do you know how to use your browser? Then the final question: do you use a real browser not "goo goo" which will steer you around like a nose-ringer bovine?

Gary Scoggin

Carlos - you could have chosen to be helpful in answering my question or you could have chosen to be sarcastic. I am disappointed that you have chosen the latter. So, I'll ask you again: How does one discern a true prophet from a false one?

You can continue to choose to not helpfully respond or you can choose to provide your insight to others. Either choice provides a learning opportunity for us all.

Carlos Ponce

Just wait. Nothing I provide with satisfy you so why should I bother?

Bailey Jones

Gary, maybe I can be of assistance -

"Carlos Ponce Apr 17, 2021 4:03pm

Remember, prophet Mark Taylor revealed the Lord's word Trump would nominate five Supreme Court Justices. You belittled that word from the Lord back in 2017. Three down, two to go. Add to that, another prophet said Clarence Thomas would replace John Roberts as Chief Justice."

Just googoo "Mark Taylor prophet" to find his book, The Trump Prophecies. You can find the 2017 version of his book here -

https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Prophecies-Astonishing-Tomorrow-Coming/dp/0998142670

There's also a link there to the "updated and expanded" 2021 version. I won't speculate on why a book of prophecies needs to be updated. And I certainly won't suggest that someone go through the 2017 version line by line and determine its veracity.

From the forward - In the words of Skywatch TV and Defender Publishing CEO, Tom Horn, "Mark Taylor is, so far, batting a thousand!"

Gary Scoggin

Thank you, Bailey. I’ll have to go back and look at it. Carlos, can you confirm that Mark Taylor is one of the prophets I should be following and taking seriously?

Ed Buckner

Bailey Jones, it seems sadistic or at least a bit cruel to use actual words that someone has posted against them like that. Can't you find it in your heart to let the deluded rant unmolested? Of course, maybe the much nicer (than me, at least) Mr. Scoggin will make actual good use of your faithfully quoting people.

Carlos Ponce

I stand by my post: "Carlos Ponce Apr 17, 2021 4:03pm""

Carlos Ponce

Gary Scoggin, you may do what you please. If you want to look up Mark Taylor it's up to you.

Bailey Jones

Ed, I'm afraid the sadism comes with the baby killing and Baal worshiping. It's an awful life but the Soros pension plan was just too good to turn down.

Gary Scoggin

I reviewed what I could find about Mark Taylor and his prophesies and, consistent with my word to Carlos, I am not here to ridicule. I would be less than frank, however, if I didn't say that I am less than convinced as I couldn't find evidence that differentiates him from just about any other person who claims to have God-inspired beliefs, especially about political matters. We all tend to believe those that tell us what we want to hear and its obvious that many ardent Trump supporters like what they hear from Taylor.

But now that I think I know Carlos' inspiration for his viewpoints, it enables me to better understand his point of view. While I still don't agree with much of it, at least I understand it.

Carlos Ponce

"But now that I think I know Carlos' inspiration for his viewpoints" You don't understand. God is my inspiration. He asks us to listen to his prophets and use His gift of discernment to tell those who following what He tells them and not those making things up. Mark Taylor is but one of many prophets... and he's NOT among those I listen to most.

Ed Buckner

Thanks, Mr. Scoggin.

Bailey Jones

Never let it be said that I won't come to Carlos' aid -

From the same thread -

"Carlos Ponce Apr 17, 2021 5:44pm

Bailey posts: "Here's a list of Carlos's youtube prophet's pronouncements, you may check their veracity yourself:"

That's just Mark Taylor.

How about Amanda Grace, Kat Kerr, Robin Bullock, hi swife Robin Bullock, Manuel Johnson, Kent Christmas, Mario Maurillo, Hank Kunneman, Brenda Kunneman, Steve Schultz, Father Frank Pavone, the late Kim Clements, the late John Paul Jackson to name a few....

Carlos Ponce Apr 17, 2021 5:46pm

And Deborah Williams who revealed two House leaders would die on the same day, one in the morning and one before the next day."

Here's the thread, because apparently, we've all been down this rabbit hole before.

https://www.galvnews.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_4e549d72-889c-54d0-9344-0ce070882677.html

Gary Scoggin

Thanks for that trip down memory lane, Bailey. The context around Carlos’ claims in this area is important. As I said before, I believe in God, and even the occasional miracle, but I’m skeptical of all who claim a special knowledge or revelation. For example, in the OT times, for every Isaiah or Jeremiah, there could have been hundreds claiming to be prophets that never made the Biblical cut. I’m dropping the matter for now but we can always revisit it if the need arises.

Carlos, I hope you don’t see my point as ridicule as that’s not my intention. My intention is a serious conversation about how extraordinary religious claims should inform public policy discussions.

Carlos Ponce

" but I’m skeptical of all who claim a special knowledge or revelation" Pray for the gift of discernment.

Gary Scoggin

"Pray for the gift of discernment." -- Perhaps I'm the one who has it. Have a good day.

Tony Brown

I want:

1. Non-inflationary economic growth that increases employment and raises wages for all people.

2. Energy independence at more affordable prices.

3. Secure borders.

4. Safe streets and communities (ALL of them).

Jim Forsythe

Trump lost because 51.3% of the voters voted for Biden. The vote was 81,283,361 to 74,222,960 resulting in Biden receiving 306 electro votes.

After certification of the votes, Biden became our 46th president on January 20, 2021. Unless Biden has to resign because of health or he dies, he will be our President until January 20th, 2025.

The next Presidential election will be determined by the independent voters, just as the last race was. As more voters leave the main parties, they will continue to look at how each party handles winning and losing and other issues. Also, one of the reasons Independents are increasing in numbers because some are being told they are RINOs, DINOs and so they are saying to themselves, why stay where I'm not wanted.

Carlos Ponce

"The next Presidential election will be determined by the independent voters" In other words a Republican will win AGAIN.

"Biden’s approval dips to new low as independents sour on his leadership"

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/bidens-approval-dips-to-new-low-as-independents-sour-on-his-leadership

By the way, Jim, I hope PBS is far enough to the left for you.

Jim Forsythe

Independent voters are just that. They do not have ties to one party and will vote for the candidate that fits their needs.

A poll from December 2017 found 35 percent of Americans approved of the job Trump was doing as president. That included 76 percent of Republicans, 31 percent of independents and 10 percent of Democrats.

Now 55 percent – of Americans disapprove of Biden’s performance, including 44 percent who strongly disapprove.

“The one good thing [for Biden] about losing independents and not doing as well with Democrats is those are groups you can win back.”

As it is 3 years until election time, we do not even know who the candidates will be.

Carlos Ponce

"As it is 3 years until election time, we do not even know who the candidates will be." We don't know who the Democrats will sacrifice, I mean, run.

Tony Brown

I was not finished.

5. A foreign policy that does not include abandoning Americans and allies behind in military conflicts, or appeasing Russia, China and others who seek to undermine us and our allies, both militarily and technologically.

If you believe that makes me a right-wing supremacist who has to settle for Donald Trump because Adolph Hitler is no longer available, well...you are clearly drinking a better brand of Kool-aid.

Jim Forsythe

Why are some becoming Independents, because they are tired of all the screaming, yelling, and name calling. He who disagrees is an enemy, ill-intentioned, part of a conspiracy, dumb — not exactly the way to change the mind of someone with whom you disagree. But it seems largely about going on the attack against those who see things differently, not trying to make them agree. Many didn’t like the Democrats at all, but they felt they had lost their party to a segment that had once been ONE segment of the party — not the party that called the shots.

Conservatives on talk radio, on cable, on Internet political sites make no attempt to hide the contempt and disdain they feel for those who are moderates or who are conservatives who believe in trying to reach some compromises, no matter how small. They’ve all but said “Get the hell out of our party” — and some Republicans who aren’t fond of Democrats are now doing just that. There’s little sign that the hard-liners will change their tune as they opt for a smaller tent with an ideological bouncer scrutinizing the crowd, looking for people to throw out of the tent.

Carlos Ponce

" because they are tired of all the screaming, yelling, and name calling" And that's why many plan on voting Republican in the mid-terms.

"Democratic Pollster Says Republicans Have ‘Big Advantage’ Heading Into 2022 Midterms" December 28, 2021

https://americanlookout.com/democratic-pollster-says-republicans-have-big-advantage-heading-into-2022-midterms/

"His [John Zogby's] data also show independents swinging to Republicans. 'While 93% of Democrats favor Democratic control, and 92% of Republicans favor Republican control — independents prefer Republican control of Congress 45% to 27% Democrat, leaving 28% undecided,' said his analysis of the survey of 777 likely voters nationwide, conducted Dec. 17 online. It has an overall margin of sampling error of 3.6 percentage points."

Gary Scoggin

Well said, Harvey. The MAGA cult is unlike any other in the history or our nation. Historians will write many books about the conditions that have brought us to the point where a sizable minority of our nation have come to worship such a man. This forum is a small example of what we see nationwide; several regular contributors have to reflexively resort to personal attacks in order to defend their adherence to the rules of the cult.

Bailey Jones

[thumbup]

Carlos Ponce

"The MAGA cult" Gary still doesn't get it.

Leigh Gottlob-Cowart

I agree, this forum is a small example of what's talked about nationwide. I suggest you put down this paper and seek more of that audience. There are plenty of disgruntled Americans that are sick of raking over the coals and arguing about the past election. Currently, people can't quit talking about the poor job Biden and Admin has done this last year and continues daily...but this group is razor focused on Trump and the past election. Scrolling through the bickering of the comments, some whining the same song over and over, boring and entertaining at the same time.

One has to only look at the numbers of people moving to the Red States. I'm encouraged to get more involved in the process. Meanwhile, drink your Kool aid and you might wanna put something in it to make it more of an adult beverage. Another shakeup is coming in 2022 and this time the voters eyes will be wide open.

And as far as debate over "the Insurrection" here's a link to a new video..."Capitol Punishment"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16252560/

And make no mistake there's still plenty of Kool aid to be had....share it around the campfire...

Craig Mason

Lowest new unemployment claims in over 50 years and the market (my investments) are red hot and producing record returns. Don’t care for Trump or Biden, but like the results I am personally seeing. I vote my pocketbook no matter the party.

Carlos Ponce

"Lowest new unemployment claims in over 50 years"

Check out the job participation rate, Craig. Unemployment claims are low because they quit looking. But liberal news will not report that....[rolleyes]

Carlos Ponce

Thanks for the link, Leigh Gottlob-Cowart, I understand "Capitol Punishment" is excellent. But don't expect our Liberal friends to view it. Truth will contradict their false narrative.

Charles Douglas

I worked with an old guy years ago named George! George was an easy going old White guy who was knowledgeable & efficient, but who moved at a snail's pace, day in, and day out ...no matter what!

One day a supervisor just happened to be in the same area as George and took note of his work speed, and lackluster work demeanor. So the supervisor after getting a belly full of watching George, decided to confront George in a testy confrontation. He said, " Dammit George, don't you have another gate you can move by?" George replied with a chuckle, " Ohhh ho-ho-ho yeah I got one more, but if you don't like this one, you "sho" ain't gonna like that one!" As George walked off the supervisor just looked on and shook his head!!!!!

I thought I would use a little humor to lead you into this warning from me. Buckle up!!! Fasten your chin straps, and your seat belts, because if you didn't like 2021, ....YOU "SHO" ain't gonna like 2022! I will go further than Ole George! You ain't gonna like 2023 and 2024 either!! Remember I told you so! That RADICAL LEFTIST mule which was engineered into office will see to it! There is going to be a harvest reaped from the seeds sown!

There will be consequences and repercussions forthcoming from the underhanded, under the table plotting, and backroom dealings done to get Joe China in office. Don't believe me just wait and see! Oh by the way, did the FBI ever find Hunter's diary they were trying to find before somebody else did? Imagine that, the American FBI, relegated to looking in garbage cans for some fool's diary to keep the fool's dad out of trouble! The dad said, " Hunter is the smartest man I know!" Yeah so smart he memorialized all his and his family's CROOKED money grabbing skemes on laptops and diaries, then misplaced the diaries and turned the laptops over to computer repair people to fix. That is real smart!

Jack Cross

I agree with Tony Brown and I might add; It is amazing that Trump is not in office and all of his policies have been rescinded, inflation is going through the rood, we can't even get the goods to the stores, Crime and killings are out of control we are begging Russia and the Arabs to pump more oil while we put restrictions on our clean refineries. We shut down pipelines and approve Russian pipelines, thus putting Russia in control of Europe's security by cutting off their fuel.

Them the U.S. is using taxpayer money to defend Europe through Nato. For what?

Does this make any sense?

Where is the equal justice, how can Eric Holder, Dr. Fauci, John Brennen, and Clapper all lie to congres and nothing happens.

Have you noticed that it was Hillary Clinton was the one wh started the Russian Hoax and still does.

More people in the history of the Republican party voted for Trump. I can understand people who believe Biden deserved to get more votes than any other president in the History of the nation. I can understand that people's hatred toward Trump is so strong that they believe all these failures are Trumps fault.

But why does the writer of this piece have to insult the millions of people who voted for Trump. Why would anyone turn a blind eye to the destruction? of American cities as business are burned down.

I see the corruptions by both sides and so do my friends. I vote on policy, I support the police, I obey the police and just about every one of these national happenings with the police, people would be alive if they just simply obeyed the police.

How can anyone support the Marxist Black Lives matter movement when thousands of black kids are being gunned down by other blacks every year,

Who is proud of these democrats' run cities?

This generation is the one that ended segregation, Opened the door of opportunity for anyone to rise as high as their ability allowed them. But you can't get their if you abandon you kinds, producing babies our of wed lock. This leads to crime, failing grades, along with failing schools. Asians fome to this country poor, can't speak the language and rise to the top in education achievements, because they have a strong family unit and place education as a high priority.

While the country crumbles around us, blaming Trump, staffing by equity and not the best qualified, continuing the blame game, re writing history is a distraction and is not going to uplift or make life better for anyone.

Jack Cross

I would encourage everyone to copy and paste this link. It is the 1987 CBS Report Award winning The vanishing Black Family. No one followed this advice, Today with open opportunities, things are worse, and still we are not focused on the real issue.

https://youtu.be/_vrw416MnJ8

Charles Douglas

Mr. Cross! You don't get it,...but then again you do! See, I know Democrats and their party strategy like I know the lines in my hands! I was with them a long time! I know how they think and I know their objectives as anybody should!

They will pick out a few BLACKS like Sharpton, Waters, & Clyburn, and reward them welll, and stick to all the rest! African Americans are getting sold out by the LEFT & members of their own race now,.. just like centuries ago! See, years ago the LEFT wanted African-Americans' LABOR, today they want every bit as much African-Americans' VOTES & political support!

They are so bold with it now they don't bother to hide their strategy from anybody anymore! All you have to do is listen & watch! Listen to their words! Words like, " IF YOU DONT VOTE FOR ME YOU AINT BLACK!!" " AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE A MONOLITHIC PEOPLE!" Joe Biden said all that, and you still got drone African Americans like Al Sharpton the Race Baiter, and Jim Clyburn running around preaching RACISM to anyone who will listen encouraging & stirring up BLACKS to vote for peple like Joe China! Sharpton & Clyburn will sell their gramdmothers out if a few dollars are in it for them! Asians have strong work ethics and are willing to work hard to accomplish their objectives, and they are not easy deceived to sell their own people out!

Carol Dean

So, my question is...Why are blacks so "open" to being "used". I thought they figured that out during the BO regime. BO kept promising them things he knew he was never going to do and yet, the blacks even started making excuses for his failures.

Maybe a smart thing to consider is that the same BO is writing Biden's "play book".

Charles Douglas

It goes deeper than that Ms. Dean! Once you have identified a likely behavior of an animal or individual, and you feed the inner workings of that behavior ...it become a problem for that animal or human to quit operating that behavior! You know things like ahhh..a bad eating habit, a special exercise routine, or expecting somebody to hand you something for nothing, stuff like that!

Democrats' stimuli of choice in controlling African-Americans are free government hand-outs, and constantly playing the RACE- CARD from the bottom of the deck! Now, helping themselves to make this process work encounters their making sure most minorities remain in a state of WANT, LACK, & POVERTY, by mixing four tablespoons of Bad Schools, and a cup of High Crimed Ghetto neighborhoods, along with one pint of menial job opportunities, and ...."WHAMMO" they have just created SLAVERY 3.0 ( I E Vote Havesting ). I think Mr. Cross bought some valid points foward and I think with his wise input, and my experience with the subject matter, there should be no doubt that we have nailed this at the root cause!

David Hardee

Mr., Douglas, your response and analogy is the most perfect description of how a mind set (bias) is began and feed to become an indelible mindset in the psyche of a individual for perpetuity. Thank you!

Sincerely, David.

Ted Gillis

The MAGA Cult are all paid crisis actors.

Ed Buckner

If you want to read a clearly written, balanced, effective summary of the Biden administration's almost one year in office, distinguished historian Heather Cox Richardson has written one-- https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/december-30-2021

Carol Dean

Gary, why don't YOU tell us the difference in a real prophet and a false prophet. You seem to think you know the difference. I'm with Carlos, you are getting a bit boring and repetitive. It is clear that you think YOUR opinions are the only ones that matter. Ta Ta.

Gary Scoggin

Carol…. I don’t know the difference, therefore, I assume anyone claiming to be a prophet is a false one. I am willing to challenge my assumption if presented with compelling evidence otherwise. Carlos claims he has figured this out but does not wish to share his sources or methodology. Lacking such, it is hard to find his claims credible. I’m sorry you consider this line of query boring and repetitive but it is central to many of Carlos’ posts and could provide greater context and meaning to his claims versus a simple “wait for it” or other simple response. I, too, am tired of waiting for a reply and will move on for now. Happy New Year.

Ed Buckner

I'm still not able, right now, to reply to Mr. Hardee's long comment, but I can at least give a preliminary reply to his follow-up: "Ed, In your reply I have a request. To satisfy my need to have a role model to evaluate myself against I have made the life of Jesus the man my role model - and fail often.

Were I an atheist where would I find and who do you suggest I use as a role model? Seriously!" And my reply is--Beware of making any fallible human (as we all are) an absolute role model. Learn about every apparently worthy human as much as you can, and study what makes him or her admirable, that you can try to emulate. I know atheists and agnostics who think Jesus was an historical/actual man and worthy of serious emulation in some respects (I think Thomas Jefferson, while not a Christian or an atheist, falls more or less in that category). I know other atheists who think Jesus was likely all or nearly all myth, not man. (Personally I'm undecided on that question.) I have a number of people I consider heroes--people worthy of making a role model in limited ways, some of them Christians: Jefferson, Lincoln, MLK, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B Anthony, FDR, John Lewis, Robert Ingersoll, James Madison, my father, and many others--but I know of flaws in all of these people. Life is not simple and you'll need complexity and nuance in choosing who to emulate.

Ed Buckner

I left out an important role model/hero: https://eji.org/bryan-stevenson/. Now--Below, for any who, like me, can get lost in the thread(s) and postings on this forum, is the comment from Mr. Hardee to which I’m replying—though my reply is not in the order of what he presented. I’ll use bracketed capital letters to show about where in his text my comment applies.

For example, I’d like to respond first [A] to his last comment, on the bio of Dr. Heather Cox Richardson and her posting, in which he is apparently commenting on the Wikipedia entry on her. He echoes a “complaint” on that site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Cox_Richardson) that it is more like a resume than a biography. I know from personal experience that Wikipedia entries are often submitted without the knowledge or participation of the subject and that in fact if the subject tries to correct or enhance information, Wikipedia editors object. In any case, I’ve never met HCR and know little of her bio. I’ve read and appreciated at least three of her books and dozens of her blog entries and I find her words clear and credible. Her conclusions and perspective are certainly not the same as Trump-supporting conservatives, so from their perspective those comments may appear to be only singing to the choir—but in fact any recounting of these facts may appear biased to a reader disinclined to accept them.

[B] I thank Mr. Hardee for the compliments, though they are somewhat overdone—I don’t in fact see myself as an “icon” to be “emulated.” I have self-respect and no shame about my conclusions, nor any regret if others come to similar ones, but proselytizing, at least in re atheism, is not a primary goal. I do ardently press for secularism as the only reliable means to protect religious liberty, but that is not personal.

[C] I’m a “consummate disturber of the peace” and “rebel” against mores and norms? Must I pretend I accept majority beliefs or at least go fins another culture if I don’t? That really makes no sense unless anyone who disagrees with the majority on important matters is similarly an inevitable disturber of the peace. Was Thomas Jefferson one for opposing royal power? Was MLK one for demanding equal rights for black folks and other minorities? Was Elizabeth Cady Stanton one for daring to suggest that women should be politically equal and empowered? Of course norms change over history—though sometimes not as people imagine—for example, some think political norms have now become fractious whereas before they were usually more civil. But Thomas Jefferson’s political enemies actually warned that if he were elected, he’d send federal troops to people’s houses and confiscate their Bibles because he wasn’t a Christian. And did we once have a stable upper class who were uniformly moral and upright? Not if we consider SC Democratic Senator James Henry Hammond in the 1850s who defended slavery and the South and who weathered a scandal over his rape of four of his own nieces—but went on to be a US Senator and Governor. And we need hardly recount the quite vicious horrors perpetrated on native Americans to persuade any reasonable person that “the coexistent culture(s) that Made America Good and the best hope of humanity” was not really present in the “good old days”—or ever.

[D] The decline in mores that Mr. Hardee and others are sure happened over the last sixty years is very much in the eye of the beholder. Some things are undoubtedly worse in our nation and culture since I was in high school in 1962, but other things are undoubtedly better. Even with something seemingly unambiguous, like births to unmarried mothers, the changes have been quite different by age groups—see https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data-visualization/births-to-unmarried-women/index.htm --and looked at that way, it is a complex matter, not a simple one. Crime rates, violence against women, incarceration for petty crimes, and dozens of other things are likewise ambiguous and complex, not simple declines (many violent crimes are less frequent now than in the 1960s.). And there *has* been substantial overall decline in church membership and attendance, but 1) why is that seen as a negative (other by church organizations)? And 2) is it good or bad that evangelical and fundamentalist varieties have fared much better than mainline denominations?

[E] Mr. Hardee’s confident assertions than all the federal programs he cites have failed are myopic—he claims they have, but objective evidence for his assertions is nowhere to be found.

[F] The atheists I know—hundreds pretty well, thousands only slightly—are mostly left of center but certainly not all. And there appears to be no evidence at all that atheists have been primary opinion drivers on any of these issues. In fact, most liberals and progressives are moderately to strongly religious (most Christians). Mere assertion doesn’t make it so, Mr. Hardee.

David Hardee Jan 1, 2022 11:59am

Ed, I went and read the article on your relationship with your father and your intellectual transition from Christian to an active atheist. The product of Intellect and logic in those areas where mathematical proof is not existing (sciences of physics), ergo, in the realm of the mystical mind (psychology) beware, because - “to the rational mind nothing is inexplicable, and the rational mind is the “faithful” servant”.

Family dynamics can never be clearly understood or explained no matter how well described. I make that conclusion because I cannot understand my family dynamics even when I dedicate myself to self recrimination for what I have done. The only honest valuation is the results over the span of time. My father 's to son credo was - if they are doing well whatever I contributed was at least not harmful - ergo success.

Certainly by applying my credo to your father, he was successful since you have done well and obviously are a man with a psyche that is healthy by your standards, is illustrated by the fact you are open and put yourself forward as an icon to be emulated. Your persistence in proselytizing also proves that point. [B]

But Ed - you are the consummate disturber of the peace. [C] Rejection of norms is not always disturbing the peace. But to reject the norm and then commit acts that will harm those that cleave to that norm is rebellion and intentionally disturbing the peace. Rebels exist when there are opposing parties on both sides of an agenda. Rebels that confine themselves to their agenda and grow without intruding on others (have borders and respect the borders of others) contribute to peaceful coexistence - and even when those in opposition cross the borders do so respectfully without disturbing the peace all stays tranquil. Belligerents and malcontents are rebels with intent to disturb the peace.

Norms are that which is the tradition over a sufficient span of time to be majority rules. Whether the norms are qualified as good does not matter because it is the majority rule. And the rebel has the option of coexisting or leaving the borders and found another society with new norms.

Our USA has norms aka mores ( mores are the customs, norms, and behaviors that are acceptable to the majority of a society or social group. ... Mores and morals have similar meanings — mores are the morals of a group or society itself. Nested in a culture are all the mores and norms and often codified with laws rooted in those norms. The progressive liberals are the belligerents that are disturbing the peace by corrupting the coexistent culture(s) that Made America Good and the best hope of humanity.

If you track the declines [D] in mores, morality, civility, integrity over the last 60 years there is indisputable evidence the once coexistent minority cultures (women libs, blacks, homosexuals, non-Christians, indigenous, new immigrants of many nationalities,) were assimilating as and in citizens. Today with a sense of power from inclusion into leadership positions declaring they were oppressed in the past they have have consolidate in the “big tent” to become progressive liberal belligerents and are the source and cause of the destruction of the nuclear family, decline in education standing, acceleration of abortions, decline in church attendance, and the producing bigger Nanny state with more federal intrusion.

[E} Each of these (some intended to be benevolent) have become outrageous failed federal government programs i,e, -Social Security was established in 1935, 86 years to get it right and it is broke, -Fannie Mae was established in 1938 71 years to get it right and it is broke, - War on Poverty started in 1964, 57 years to get it right,

Then came the “Great Society” -$1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more, -Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965, 56 years to get it right and broke, -Freddie Mac was established in 1970, 51 years to get it right and it is broke, -The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before, 44 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

The video that Jack provided link to is an illustration of how all of our young people have because they have no icons, or mores to use as role models. Those attitudes of the young did not suddenly appear. Their attitudes are the product of 60 years of erosion in beliefs in the traditions of the pre-1960’s majority. [F] The Atheist rebels along with progressive liberals are the primary culprits for the erosions.

David

[A] P,s, - distinguished historian Heather Cox Richardson has written a TRUE rendition of a one sided dissertation. That kind of presentation is singing to the choir and not persuasive to a critical thinker. Read it again and put causes and effects to the process of absorbing the message. Also curious that the bio of Heather is so remiss in info - it is nothing but her resume/promotion of her as and scholar.

Carol Dean

One word: FAITH

Ed Buckner

FAITH is indeed one word--but faith in what? And why?

Carol Dean

Faith in whatever or whomever you choose.

David Smith

Proof positive GDN. will let any one spread propaganda..

Meanwhile.. the Worst President In our history is destroying our country.. .. and 80 comments ate about Trump

Carlos Ponce

"the Worst President In our history is destroying our country" Let's hear from a Leftist source on Biden:

"Biden now sports the lowest net economic rating of any president at this point through their first term since at least Jimmy Carter in 1977. "

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/21/politics/joe-biden-jimmy-carter-economic-ratings/index.html

When even Leftist CNN makes this claim, it's obvious Biden is a failure. Only a true idiot would try to say otherwise. Now "true idiots", it's your turn.........

Dan Freeman

Selective reporting as usual. Biden's approval remain the lowest since President Ford in 1977, with the exception that he consistently out polls our 45th President.

Carlos Ponce

Dan you are comparing President Trump's LOWEST rating OVER FOUR YEARS to Biden's lowest rating over 11 months. Now, do a timeline study of approval ratings. At the same in office, President Trump has a higher rating.

Jan 3, 2022 Rasmussen gives Biden a 40% approval, 58% disapproval.

On January 3, 2018 Trump had a 44% approval 54% disapproval.

Rasmussen is a highly rated Polling Organization. Which do you prefer?

Bailey Jones

David, the letter is about how gullible and ignorant Trump supporters are, not how disappointed liberals are with Biden. Both things are true.

Carlos Ponce

The former may be the letter writer's intent but it is not true.

Ed Buckner

David Hardee gave, above, another long and winding (too winding in some places by far) disquisition, to which I hope, in due course, to reply--but it will be with a new post (like this one) rather than as a linked reply, because the links and connections are confusing and, I think, broken. Stay tuned.

Ed Buckner

The two biggest as yet unresolved difficulties with your perorations, Mr. Hardee, perhaps in fact the insurmountable difficulties, are 1. You assert things as obviously true that are true only in your opinion and not at all obvious as to what is meant OR that it is true. And, 2. You do not operationalize what you mean.

First, 1.: “The indisputable conclusion that only the power and force that will change the society in whole is the federal acts - i.e. executive orders, legislative act, Supreme court opinions, and constitutional amendments.” But this is not only not indisputable, it isn’t even clear. Are you denying that religion, Hollywood, education, political or cultural movements, etc., can “change in the whole”? Nearly every philosopher and scholar I’ve read, across all fields of study, from “leftist” to “arch-conservative” would heartily disagree. Or, second, “It is evident that all social engineering by the Federal government is a prescription for inequity and the source of disturbing the peace and offensive civil unrest.” No such thing is remotely “evident” nor even very clear as to what you really mean.

Second, 2.: You do only one thing by way of operationalizing: you declare that the period we should focus on is 1945 or 1946 to the present day (my own lifetime, in other words). That seems arbitrary but at least it allows for focus. (We can, as you suggested, set aside first the enactment and the repeal of selling alcoholic beverages, since this occurred well before WWII.) But then you degenerate into mere assertion. We are asked to accept that there has been “path of deterioration in the central nerve” of mores and morality just because you declare it. But your perceptions are too vague and sweeping to understand, much less to measure. Are families in general better off or worse off in 2022 than they were in 1945? In what way(s)? Are workers in general better off or worse off in 2022 than they were in 1945? In what way(s)? Are women in general better off or worse off in 2022 than they were in 1945? In what way(s)? Are voters involved in political decisions in general better off or worse off in 2022 than they were in 1945? In what way(s)? Is it better or worse that everyone is presumed to be a Protestant Christian until s/he declares otherwise? If women are far less likely to be beaten by their husbands, how good a thing is that? And of course you pass over strong improvements in the ability of people of different races who love each other to marry and procreate or of gay or lesbian people to or over ethnic and racial minorities who have demonstrably better lives than did their peers of 75 years ago.

You assert that “… if you do not agree that the mores, morals and culture of our society has deteriorated then give some examples of improvement,” when my position is that the mores, morals and culture of our society have changed in many, many ways—some of them positive from my perspective; others worse. If you could specify some things that you think have “deteriorated” I might agree with some and disagree with others, but at least we could debate it.

In short, your assertions are too vague to test and too broad to be realistic or meaningful.

Ed Buckner

The connection of this (see link) to the matters discussed above is indirect but very important-- https://bittersoutherner.com/2020/ahmaud-arbery-holds-us-accountable

Ed Buckner

David Hardee is quite apparently unable to step out of his closed circle. It makes no sense, if one is honestly trying to persuade and to prevail in a debate, to write things like "That conclusion “severely deteriorated” is indisputable." Of course divorce is hard, usually, on children. But declaring obvious truths like that does not make the case that rebels against religious or cultural orthodoxy are the cause of more divorces. Nor does it persuade any reasonable person when Mr. Hardee dismisses vast improvements (generally accepted as such) in our mores as acting as if women should be first class citizens or that gay and lesbians who love each other should be able to marry or that being a member of a racial or ethnic minority should not keep one from holding office or being promoted or hired. Mr. thinks there has been a moral decline--but cannot specify very well what that means or explain at all what caused it.

David Hardee

The thread(s) in and on this article have become disconnected and scattered making a continuum of associated comments difficult to organize.

Buckner and I have a dialogue I am responding to and if I happens to intrude on another thread please ignore.

d, you isolated on INCIDENT of MARRIAGE and then you want/referenced the factor of INCLUSION as being influences that elevation society over the year and NOT subjected to a FEDERAL act causing a denigration over the years to society as a WHOLE.

I, That once sanctified by both the State, religions, and the society as a WHOLE was only ACEPTABLE between A man and A women. Also SOCIETY as a WHOLE was rejected INTERRACIAL marriage. Also the WHOLE never anticipate HOMOSEXUAL marriage. Here we find is a perfect example to use in determining the primary cause of it having by FEDERAL act been a degeneration ON the WHOLE.

- There have been over the history of the GI bill many critical evaluation. A plethora of opining and statistical information is available for satisfying the interested. The general conclusions are that segments of society were impacted differently. the segments of Minorities of the society found the Bill as a source of discrimination when they applied for the loan and the education benefits because these segments did not meet minimums of qualification by the institutions responsible to give out (extend) the GI benefit. There was the a congressional bill but no FDERAL enforcement or bureaucracy to make the public institution comply. Ergo the GI bill required the WHOLE to be imposed with another FEDRAL act to MAKE SOCIRTY conform. This fact that a benevolent GI bill had detrimental effects and the society as a WHOLE became chaotic, irritated with incivility/racism caused by the GI bill. In this dilemma the FEDERAL had to again act to FORCE society to completely comply with the benevolent GI bill. in 1959 armed forces shepherd black students into the previously known as separate but equal white educational institutions. An now began another round of FEDERAL act that would force THE WHOLE to comply. The Constitution was again targeted with CIVIL RIGHT segmentations that would identify specifically the portions of society as entitled. And at as a tangent new Bureaucracies were funded and given Power to force the WHOLE (all private institutions and public institution - even private property owners) to comply with the new laws, Given this historical chronicle of the methods with which the WHOLE has been forced into a status of NON-DISCRIMINATION the effects have revealed - Marriage by all evaluations has on WHOLE deteriorated, the educational status and standings on a WHOLE comparatively has deteriorated, the indications related to CIVILITY (mores, morals and culture, have all) by relative to the POINT of one being unified (end of WWII) have deteriorated. These conclusions are irreputable by any logical and or statistical evaluation.

So, Mr. Buckner, this, today USA has under the LIBERALISM of benevolence of the FEDERAL acts is as a WHOLE has not PROGESSIVELY been on the path of being a BETTER USA.

You, Buckner, stated, " Mr. Hardee dismisses vast improvements (generally accepted as such) in our mores as acting as if women should be first class citizens or that gay and lesbians who love each other should be able to marry or that being a member of a racial or ethnic minority should not keep one from holding office or being promoted or hired." Please note that I have not referenced any of the segments by their individual segments. That is because they are merely components of the and consequently incidental to the WHOLE.

If you want to drizzle down into the how event these component's have faired (having been given artificial status that actually created tribalism with their presumptions of being victimized and the resulting competition and combativeness) under the BIG TENT, of PROGRESSIVE LIBERALISM, just render a more of your CLASS suppositions on the "vast improvements (generally accepted as such) in our mores." As a caveat understand we will be dwelling in the GENDER COFUSION where all the biological attributes are LIBERALIZED so genitalia and sports are in conflict, language and words are being reimaged, how the statistics demonstrate disparity between races in civil and criminal activities, etc. I do not wish to descend into the area where you and I allocate shame on those that are struggling with their challenges that were imposed by fate. Those that are struggling need and if inclined have in our mostly humane (at the local level) society benevolence/help within their reach - if they try.

David

Ed Buckner

Mr. Hardee is unable to find and demonstrate a coherent argument. I've no doubt that he holds the opinion that mores and morals have declined since WWII, but he cannot even explain reasonably what that means, much less make a case for his opinion being any more than his opinion.

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