Hi, Orf. What fills your mind these days?

After interrogating Jesus, Pilate asked: “What is truth?” Good question these days.

That question has troubled philosophers forever.

I probably can get a simpler answer to what is a lie.

You could check Webster’s.

Noah writes a lie is: “A falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception.”

Sadly, that seems fairly common these days.

The definition contains two parts: first is the falsehood, second is the purpose of deception.

Interesting, so merely making a false statement is not enough for a lie.

Yes, a falsehood can be a misstatement of fact or an error.

When I read in the paper that windmills cause cancer that isn’t necessarily a lie.

No, it’s merely an error or incorrect statement.

But if I’m shown it’s an error by a scientist or other expert, and then to repeat it to deceive someone, that’s a lie.

You understand.

How about if a president claims: “We have the best unemployment rate and employment numbers. We have the best numbers we’ve ever had in our country.” That is a hyperbole. But when it’s repeated 37 times to deceive voters, it’s a lie.

How about wages?

The president has said 76 times: “Wages are up for the first time in many, many years, decades, decades.” This is a lie since he has been told: “Actually, wages began a steady increase in 2014 but for many workers were stagnant in 2017, Trump’s first year in office.”

So that was a lie since it meets both parts of the requirement.

But Trump did give us the biggest tax cut in history. He has said it 181 times, so it must be true. It was bigger than Ronald Reagan’s.

Nope. The tax cut was eventually crafted to be the equivalent of 0.9 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the eighth-largest tax cut in 100 years. He keeps repeating it as an applause line, which makes it a humdinger of a lie.

How about the inauguration?

That is when we learned it was going to be a bumpy ride.

Why?

It began with a claim by Press Secretary Sean Spicer. The White House began calling the National Park Service on Jan. 21, 2017, pursuing better pictures.

Nothing wrong with that.

Not until The Guardian reported the White House staff ordered a government photographer to edit official pictures of Donald Trump’s inauguration “to make the crowd appear bigger following a personal intervention from the president.”

So a deliberate deception makes an error into a lie.

You got it?

How about people repeating “alternative facts?”

A fact is a thing known to be consistent with objective reality. Basically, if everyone agrees on something they simultaneously observe, that’s a fact. An alternative fact is a demonstrable falsehood. If it’s repeated in order to deceive, it is then a lie.

So, when someone repeats “alternative facts,” that’s lying.

So there are lies, damn lies, and alternative facts.

Dan Freeman is an occasional columnist for The Daily News.

Locations

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(65) comments

Carlos Ponce

First Dan writes, "That is a hyperbole." Then he writes, "But when it’s repeated 37 times to deceive voters, it’s a lie." That's your opinion, Dan, not shared by all. Perhaps pessimists share it. Not deceiving at all. Gather ALL economic factors together you will see the economy today is GREAT!

Use of hyperbole is common among leaders especially presidents. Obama used it all the time. Remember "HOPE and CHANGE" ? Coaches use it all the time to get the best performance out of their players.

If I said, "Good Morning, Dan!" would you retort, "What's so good about it?" This column seems to indicate you would.

Optimism builds winning campaigns. People don't want to hear doom and gloom from their leaders.

Remember this old song:

"You've got to accentuate the positive

eliminate the negative

Latch on to the affirmative

But don't mess with mister in-between

You've got to spread joy up to the maximum

Bring gloom down to the minimum

have faith, a pandemonium

Libel to walk up on the scene"

And:

"Blue skies smilin' at me

Nothin' but blue skies do I see

Bluebirds singin' a song

Nothin' but bluebirds all day long

Never saw the sun shinin' so bright

Never saw things goin' so right

Noticing the days hurrying by

When you're in love, my how they fly

Blue days, all of them gone

Nothin' but blue skies from now on

Blue skies smilin' at me

Nothin' but blue skies do I see"

GOOD MORNING, DAN!

Ray Taft

“It's not really that hard to cull falsity from fact.” OK, I’ll trust my eyes and not Freeman.

If things look better, then they are better. Instead of believing Freeman’s Schiff-like tall tale, I think I’ll believe what I see.

I’m doing much better than when Obama was president. And so are most people I encounter. Jobs are plentiful and wages are rising. People are doing much better and advancing up the ladder of success. Not the case when Obama was president. The working class definitely, without any doubt at all, have a friend in President Trump. Not so with Democrat Obama.

President Trump has surely turned things around, in spite of all the hateful opposition. I have no doubt, and don’t you doubt it either. And those like Freeman hate it, so they spin ‘lies, damn lies, and alternative facts.’

Remember that lying Democrats are notorious for accusing others of what they do. Re-elect President Trump to Keep America Great!

Carlos Ponce

Look at the following excerpts from State of the Union speeches:

"Tonight I stand before you to report that America has created the longest peacetime economic expansion in our history -- with nearly 18 million new jobs, wages rising at more than twice the rate of inflation, the highest home ownership in history, the smallest welfare rolls in 30 years -- and the lowest peacetime unemployment since 1957."

"Because of the hard work and high purpose of the American people, these are good times for America. We have more than 14 million new jobs, the lowest unemployment in 24 years, the lowest core inflation in 30 years. Incomes are rising, and we have the highest home ownership in history. Crime has dropped for a record five years in a row, and the welfare rolls are at their lowest levels in 27 years. Our leadership in the world is unrivaled. Ladies and gentlemen, the state of our union is strong."

"The lowest unemployment rate in over five years. A rebounding housing market. A manufacturing sector that’s adding jobs for the first time since the 1990s. More oil produced at home than we buy from the rest of the world – the first time that’s happened in nearly twenty years. Our deficits – cut by more than half. And for the first time in over a decade, business leaders around the world have declared that China is no longer the world’s number one place to invest; America is."

"At home, the recession is behind us. Well over a million more men and women are working today than were working 2 years ago. The average factory work week is once again more than 40 hours; our industries are turning out more goods than ever before; and more than half of the manufacturing capacity that lay silent and wasted 100 weeks ago is humming with activity. In short, both at home and abroad, there may now be a temptation to relax. For the road has been long, the burden heavy, and the pace consistently urgent."

The first two are from Bill Clinton, the third from Barack Obama, the last from JFK. All State of the Union speeches sound alike, don't they? Hyperbolic statements made with only a handful doing fact checks to contradict the claims made. Why? People want to hear a positive message.

Maris Helfrich

Beautiful "words" written by a speech writer....but as Dan Freeman explains....based on Trump's continuing "untruths" and "lies"! WORDS are cheap! The "words" I want to hear from him are "I regret" and "I'm sorry!" and the same from his base about the unethical and wrong things he does, and the offenses against others. A foundation stone of "character" and "religion" is the acknowledgement of making mistakes and the willingness to apologize...."forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us". No one can be RIGHT all the time ....such as Trump and his base seem to claim about him. Ridiculous and totally unnacceptable by intelligent- thinking citizens of this great country!

Gary Miller

Maris> One of Obama lies irritate more than others. He claims jobs created that he actually tried to stop and couldn't because they were on private property. Nearly all the full time plus overtime jobs added in the last three years of Obama's term were created by the energy industry drilling on private property. Obama forced employers to cut 40 hour a week workers to 20 hours and claimed new jobs added when the cut workers found other 20 hour jobs.

Bailey Jones

Mr. Freeman's letter is based on an assumption that I don't believe to be true - that assumption is that most people don't want to be lied to. As an engineer, I deal in absolute truths everyday - it's the only way I can do an effective job. And I try to apply that lesson to the rest of my life. But that's a personal choice. My experience is that most people are perfectly happy to be lied to. And that's people of all political, philosophical and religious creeds. It's a cruel irony that humans are smart enough to know what rational thought is, but aren't smart enough to know when they aren't employing it. That's not a moral judgement, just an observation of human nature. And it's one that we all need to understand if we're all going to get along.

Carlos Ponce

"most people don't want to be lied to" Sounds like if a woman asked Bailey, "Does this dress make me look fat?", Bailey would reply, "Of course not - it's your fat that makes you look fat."[wink]

Bailey Jones

Well... it is. [tongue]

David Hardee

Mr. Freeman - President Trump has several of the characteristics of a politician, i.e. Egotism, self aggrandizing and embellishing are prominent LIES in all politicians. Yet Trump is not a pure politician. Trump does not vacillate in order to appeal to the audience. Trump has an agenda and if you like his agenda you join and if you don’t like it he will shun you to leave. Trump’s big tent has signs at the entrance that clearly state his intentions.

A review of your postings indicates your disdain for the GOP. It is a reasonable assumption you are a Democrat. Consequently a reasonable conclusion is that your prerogatives have and will consistently be to demean the Republican office holders.

Evidently you find President Trump’s flaws detrimental to your well being. You presented your one sided ledger. Your obvious intent is political. You want to have Trump voted out of office. Your prerogative can be expressed in the next election. Till then, look in the mirror, critique the progressive liberal Democratic big tent candidates and clean up their flaws.

Vote wisely!

Paula Flinn

Thank you, Dan Freeman, for a thoughtful article. Many of us would like to see a different person, who does not lie everyday to the American people, in the Oval Office. A person whose Administration respects the Constitution and it’s checks and balances of the three different branches would be a welcome change. The recent State of the Union speech was a pack of lies. That’s why Speaker Pelosi tore it up.

Maris Helfrich

AMEN, Paula! I add my thanks to Dan Freeman for the article! So true about the "liar in chief"! And "scary" that this kind of conduct is acceptable by his cultist followers and brushed off as "normal" or " just political" jargon. Retribution, revenge and tactics of personal destruction have no place in the Oval Office which has become the "throne room" of a self-appointed dictator! God help our beloved Democracy!

Carlos Ponce

Looks like the morning Liberal Kool-aid has made its rounds!

Emile Pope

President donald is a crook. Violating the law to pursue your “agenda” is criminal. Supporting it because you agree with it is complicity.

Carlos Ponce

Wrong as usual, Emile. No laws violated.

Kelly Naschke

ANOTHER anti Trump diatribe from the tolerant left.....it’s getting comical at this point.

Michael Jozwiak

Carlos, find a hobby instead of consuming reply space. You must be really upset with the world and, obviously, cannot tell Presidential lies from financial facts.

Karen Griswold

Please give me the name of one politician who tells the truth 100%....even 90% of the time.

Don Schlessinger

[thumbup]

Emile Pope

That’s a ridiculous argument. Apparently since politicians (and everyone else) isn’t 100% truthful, then donald is forgiven for his thousands of lies? The excuses you people make for this disaster of a president are laughable...

Carlos Ponce

And Emile ignored Obama's thousands of lies. If you like your health plan.....

Emile Pope

Thousands of lies? Name the first thousand...

Carlos Ponce

If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.

If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it.

Every family will save $2000 on health care.

Will close Gitmo.

There is no spying on Americans.

Claimed his administration hired no lobbyists.

In 2009 claimed “more than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States.”

“More young black men languish in prison than attend colleges and universities across America"

“We signed into law the biggest middle-class tax cut in history”

“90 percent of the budget deficit is due to George W. Bush’s policies”

“The Capitol Hill janitors just got a pay cut”

“The day after Benghazi happened, I acknowledged that this was an act of terrorism”

“I didn’t call the Islamic State a ‘JV’ team”

“Republicans have filibustered 500 pieces of legislation”

“The Keystone pipeline is for oil that bypasses the United States”

“We have fired a whole bunch of people who are in charge of these [Veterans Administration] facilities”

Line in the sand.

"We're focused on production."

"The U.S. consumes more than a fifth of the world's oil. But we only have 2% of the world's oil reserves."

"Because of the investments we've made, the use of clean, renewable energy in this country has nearly doubled."

"There are no short-term silver bullets when it comes to gas prices."

Obama denied that proposed health care legislation would provide free health coverage for illegal immigrants.

“[W]e’ve done all this while cutting our deficits by almost three-quarters.”

“Anyone claiming that America’s economy is in decline is peddling fiction.”

“That’s what the Affordable Care Act is all about. It’s about filling the gaps in employer-based care so that when we lose a job, or go back to school, or start that new business, we’ll still have coverage.”

“Food Stamp recipients didn’t cause the financial crisis; recklessness on Wall Street did.” Actually the Community Reinvestment Act.

“We’ve protected an open internet…”.

“No nation dares to attack us or our allies because they know that’s the path to ruin.” Said hours after Iran seized two U.S. Navy boats and ten sailors.

“As someone who begins every day with an intelligence briefing, I know this is a dangerous time.” Actually does not attend every day.

“We are training, arming, and supporting forces who are steadily reclaiming territory in Iraq and Syria [from Islamic State].”

“Fifty years of isolating Cuba had failed to promote democracy, setting us back in Latin America.”

“more than half of manufacturing executives have said they’re actively looking to bring jobs back from China.”

“the only advanced country on Earth that doesn’t guarantee paid sick leave.” Canada and Japan did not.

"With all due deference to the separation of powers," he said, the court last week "reversed a century of law that I believe will open the floodgates for special interests — including foreign corporations — to spend without limit in our elections." Justice Alito ruled "not true".

"Starting in 2011, we are prepared to freeze government spending for three years. Spending related to our national security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will not be affected. But all other discretionary government programs will."

"But at a time of record deficits, we will not continue tax cuts for ...those making over $250,000 a year. We just can't afford it." HE EXTENDED the Bush tax cuts.

"I'd like to begin monthly meetings with both Democratic and Republican leadership. I know you can't wait."

“If you actually took the number of Muslims [sic] Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.”

Claiming he did not know Hillary had a secret server when he e-mailed her at that server.

More to come when I have time.

Carlos Ponce

Obamasaid that he supported the “basic concept of using medical marijuana for the same purposes and with the same controls as other drugs” and that he was “not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws.” -February 2010, DEA agents raided a medical marijuana grower in Highlands Ranch in Colorado, a state where medical marijuana is legal.

Promised all of the health care reform negotiations to be broadcast on C-SPAN. It never happened.

“I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits – either now or in the future. I will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period. And to prove that I’m serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don’t materialize.”

“We need to uphold the ideal of public education.” Sent his children to private schools.

Claimed that the U.S. Supreme Court had never overturned any laws that had been passed by Congress.

Claimed that written tests are a form of “racial discrimination”

Claimed to know more about Judaism than any other President.

“I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms.”

“I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”

Obama said that he wanted to simplify the tax code, his proposals would actually add thousands of pages to the tax code.

“This is the most transparent administration in history”.

Promised to wait five days before signing all non-emergency bills. Broke that promise 10 times.

Obama had promised that the website recovery.gov would list all “stimulus” spending in detail, a 400 page report issued by the Government Accountability Office stated that only 25% of the projects listed on the website provided clear and complete information regarding their cost, schedule, purpose, location and status.

Promised to accept public campaign financing and spending limits.

“I am not a Democrat who believes that we can or should defend every government program just because it’s there… We will fire government managers who aren’t getting results, we will cut funding for programs that are wasting your money and we will use technology and lessons from the private sector to improve efficiency across every level of government… The only way we can do all this without leaving our children with an even larger debt is if Washington starts taking responsibility for every dime that it spends.”

Said that criminal background checks constituted “racial discrimination”.

Claimed he was funded “not from huge donors at all.”

“We are our brother’s keeper.” But excluded helping brother George Obama pay medical bills. Dinesh D’Souza paid it.

“I cut spending by over a trillion dollars in 2011″. Actually increased spending in 2011.

Obama claimed that his “Cash for Clunkers” program would help the environment.

More to come.......

Carlos Ponce

“Do you support state legislation to: ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns?” Obama’s answer to the question was “Yes.” Then he denied it. “My writing wasn’t on that particular questionnaire.” ABC News reported otherwise.

Claimed that his 2013 inauguration was not funded by lobbyists.

“Today, I’m pledging to cut the deficit we inherited in half by the end of my first term in office.” Obama broke that promise.

Said that Romney’s pension was bigger than his own.

Obama falsely said that the Benghazi attack was a spontaneous protest against an anti-Muslim video.

October 2012, Obama said that “we got back every dime” of the bailout.

Said "Fast and Furious" was started when Bush was President. It started October 2009. Bush's effort, "Wide Receiver" was not the same.

Called Fort Hood shooting “workplace violence” instead of “Islamic terrorism”.

Said that switching to electronic medical records would make health care cheaper. It made it more expensive.

Lied about the cost of federal regulations.

Broke his promise to pass immigration bill his first year, and then lied about why he broke it. He blamed Republicans but Democrats had both Houses in 2009.

Falsely said that he goes skeet shooting “all the time”.

Said the deficit had gone down when it had actually gone up.

The sequester is not something that I’ve proposed.”

Said the Sandy Hook shooter used a “fully automatic weapon”.

"But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that’s $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 — immediately the surgeon is reimbursed." The American College of Surgeons says the cost was between $740 and $1,140.

“Right now, doctors, a lot of times, are forced to make decisions based on the fee payment schedule that’s out there. So if … your child has a bad sore throat, or has repeated sore throats, the doctor may look at the reimbursement system and say to himself, ‘You know what? I make a lot more money if I take this kid’s tonsils out.'”

Said he supports Freedom of the Press but secretly obtained phone records from Associated Press reporters and editors.

Accused a law abiding news reporter James Rosen of being “an aider and abettor and/or co-conspirator” in a criminal investigation.

Obama: “Did you lie?” Holder: “No.” Obama: “OK. That’s good enough for me. You’re cleared of any wrongdoing.” Eric Holder was charged with Contempt of Congress for lying under oath.

"We don’t think that top-down solutions are the right way to go. We believe in the free market. We believe in a light touch when it comes to regulations."

Said Catholic schools are “divisive”.

Raised Student loan interest rate from 5.3% to 6% to pay for ACA which violated his promise not to do so.

More to come....

Emile Pope

Simply making things up...

Carlos Ponce

Out of those that I posted, which do you say is "made up"?

Jim Forsythe

Just look at the last one. "Raised Student loan interest rate from 5.3% to 6% to pay for ACA which violated his promise not to do so."

President Obama didn’t increase the interest rate on student loans. He didn’t reduce it either. Congress sets the interest rates on federal student loans by passing legislation, such as amendments to the Higher Education Act of 1965.

The College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007 (before President Obama was elected) implemented a phased-in interest rate reduction on the subsidized Federal Stafford loan for undergraduate students, from 6.8% in 2007–08 to 6.0% in 2008–09, 5.6% in 2009–10, 4.5% in 2010–11 and 3.4% in 2011–12.

Since new loans starting 7/1/2012 were going to be at the original 6.8% rate, this put political pressure on Congress (it was, after all, an election year) to prevent the interest rate on new loans from doubling. Congress passed a one-year extension to the 3.4% rate.

In 2013, when interest rates on subsidized Federal Stafford loans to undergraduate students were once again set to be at the 6.8% rate, Congress decided to change the interest rate formula for all federal education loans. The interest rates would continue to be fixed rates, but each year would be at a different fixed rate, pegged to the last 10-year Treasury Note auction in May plus a margin. The new rates would be effective from July 1 to June 30.

Thus, we switched from having fixed rates of 6.8% on unsubsidized Federal Stafford loans (and 3.4% on subsidized Federal Stafford loans) and 7.9% on Federal PLUS loans to the following formulas for each year’s fixed rates:

Undergraduate Federal Stafford Loans. 10-year Treasury Note + 2.05%, capped at 8.25%

Graduate Federal Stafford Loans: 10-year Treasury Note + 3.6%, capped at 9.5%

Grad PLUS and Parent PLUS: 10-year Treasury Note + 4.6%, capped at 10.5%

The interest rates were initially lower that some of the fixed rates in effect prior to 7/1/2013, albeit higher than the 3.4% rate on the subsidized Federal Stafford loan. But, they have the potential to eventually go higher than all the previous fixed rates. Given that we are now in a rising interest rate environment, the interest rates are likely to exceed the previous fixed rates within a decade.

Jim Forsythe

"Said Catholic schools are “divisive”." Text of what Obama said. It was about why people and churches need to live together and not apart.

The president also told the Belfast audience that peace in Northern Ireland is a "blueprint" for those living amid conflict around the world, while acknowledging that the calm between Catholics and Protestants will face further tests.

With respect to Catholic education, Obama said "If towns remain divided, if Catholics have their schools and buildings, and Protestants have theirs, if we can't see ourselves in one another, if fear or resentment are allowed to harden, that encourages division. It discourages cooperation."

Jim Forsythe

Carlos said ""But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that’s $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 — immediately the surgeon is reimbursed." The American College of Surgeons says the cost was between $740 and $1,140." trying to say the total cost would be less than $1,140.

Carlos, what Hospital will do anything between $740 and $1,140. A prosthesis is expensive, physical therapy increases the cost. Unless you are not going to use anesthesia, that increases the cost. You have to go to the Doctor before the operation, which increases the cost, that cost alone runs up to $400.

The last time I had surgery it cost about that amount. Hospital costs averaged $3,949 per day, which you may reduce by negotiating the cost.

How Much Does Amputation Cost? Typical costs:

For patients not covered by health insurance, the typical cost of an amputation ranges from $20,000 to $60,000 including the surgeon's fee, facility fee, anesthesia and medical supplies. The cost depends partly on the part of the body being amputated; a toe amputation would be at the lower end of the cost range, while an above-the-knee amputation would be at the higher end.

Amputation surgery generally is covered by health insurance, often even in cases where a patient chooses to undergo the surgery because of pain or a limb that is not useful.

For patients covered by health insurance, typical out-of-pocket costs would include a copay or coinsurance for an inpatient surgery of 10 to 20 percent or more of the total cost, which would stop at the annual out-of-pocket maximum.

What should be included:

Before the operation, the surgeon will do an examination to determine how much tissue to remove.

On the day of surgery, anesthesia will be administered and the patient will be hooked up to machines that monitor body functions. Then the surgeon cuts through skin and muscle, clamping and stitching healthy blood vessels and shaping skin and muscles to make sure a prosthesis will fit well onto the stump. In some cases, the surgeon leaves the flaps of skin open for a few days to check for unhealthy or infected tissue that might need to be removed before closure.

After surgery, a hospital stay of five days to two weeks usually is required.

The Society for Vascular Surgery offers an overview of amputation.

Additional costs:

After amputation, physical therapy is necessary.

Many patients who undergo amputation have a prosthesis made. The cost of a prosthesis ranges from a few thousand dollars for a very basic prosthetic limb to more than $40,000 for a more high-tech limb with a computer chip. Many health insurance companies have very low caps on the amount they will pay for prosthetics, so many patients end up paying out-of-pocket. Prosthetic limbs also wear out and have to be replaced.

Carlos Ponce

"Congress sets the interest rates..." Who SIGNED the bill, Jim???? Congress CANNOT unilaterally set that rate. In his 2012 State of the Union Speech, Obama asked that they not be raised. "At a time when Americans owe more in tuition debt than credit card debt, this Congress needs to stop the interest rates on student loans from doubling in July." And before the 2012 election, Congress voted to extend the lower interest rates. Post-election was a different matter. 2013 Congress H.R. 1911 passed legislation to increase interest rates: Undergraduate -"a rate equal to the high yield of the 10-year Treasury note auctioned at the final auction held prior to such June 1 plus 2.05 percent; or 8.25 percent," graduate - a rate equal to the high yield of the 10-year Treasury note auctioned at the final auction held prior to such June 1 plus 3.6 percent; or 9.5 percent". And the Bill was signed by President Barack Obama August 9, 2013.

Carlos Ponce

Jim agrees Obama said "Said Catholic schools are “divisive”.

Carlos Ponce

"Carlos, what Hospital will do anything between $740 and $1,140."

The American College of surgeons reported that rate, not me.

Read "Obama Missteps on Foot Amputation Pay to Surgeons"

https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/strategy/obama-missteps-foot-amputation-pay-surgeons

"President Obama got his facts completely wrong," according to a statement from the ACS, whose 74,000 members make it the largest organization of surgeons in the world."

Jim Forsythe

"The American College of surgeons reported that rate, not me". You are the one that posted it in the GDN, so you own it. Just where are you going to get a amputation and care required in the Galveston area for the amount you stated? Please list the care facilities that will do it for that price.

Just the OR costs a average cost of $62 a minute,... and takes on a average one hour. That $3720 on the average with out problems, which happens with people that are diabetic!

What you are quoiting is what Medicare will reimburse, not what it cost!

This comes from the same site as you used.

"Surgeons are neither reimbursed by Medicare, nor any provider for that matter, for foot amputations at rates anywhere close to $50,000, $40,000 or even $30,000. Medicare reimbursements to physicians for foot amputations range from approximately $700 to $1,200."

In fact, the cost of a foot amputation includes payment to the hospital for several days' stay, to an anesthesiologist and rehabilitation specialists, and for wound care after the surgery is over. But the surgeon doesn't charge those amounts. A 2007 article in the Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association estimates the cost of a lower extremity amputation at $30,000 to $60,000, with an additional $43,000 to $60,000 for subsequent care for 3 years.

https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/strategy/obama-missteps-foot-amputation-pay-surgeons.

Carlos Ponce

"Just where are you going to get a amputation and care required in the Galveston area for the amount you stated?"

2009 rates, 2009! And that was reported by the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, the American College of Surgeons, and the California Medical Association. And there are other costs involved - room costs, medication costs, anesthesiologist and rehabilitation specialists, and for wound care after the surgery is over. But the surgeon doesn't charge those amounts.

"In 2001, the costs of diabetes-related amputations were estimated to be $38,077 per amputation."

https://www.apma.org/files/FileDownloads/TR-JAPMA-Article.pdf

By 2014 the cost was $70,000:

https://www.apma.org/Media/PRdetail.cfm?ItemNumber=15108

Jim Forsythe

In 2009, nowhere in the Galveston area was a amputation less than $2000, unless you did not use any pain killer and did not use any supplies. What you keep pushing is the is what Medicare will reimburse, not the total cost. Just as you posted "In 2001, the costs of diabetes-related amputations were estimated to be $38,077 per amputation."

Carlos Ponce

That price includes everything - not just the amputation, room, anesthesia, medications, etc.

Carlos Ponce

I hope you do not have to undergo surgery anytime soon but if you ever do, ask for an itemized bill. You will find out the 2020 cost of that surgery is only part of that bill.

Jim Forsythe

The price Obama quoted was for everything included . No-one is going to receive a

amputation without a room, anesthesia, medications, etc. No medical business is going to remove a body part without all that, so to try and say the cost is just $2000 or less is not being realistic.

Jim Forsythe

What I said was that Obama said this. Carlos, make sure not to skip the if's.

"With respect to Catholic education, Obama said "If towns remain divided, if Catholics have their schools and buildings, and Protestants have theirs, if we can't see ourselves in one another, if fear or resentment are allowed to harden, that encourages division. It discourages cooperation.""

He was saying we must all come together or remain divided.

Carlos Ponce

"The price Obama quoted was for everything included " In context the doctors said Obama was wrong. But Jim is going to stand up for and defend Obama and disregard what surgeons dedicated to saving lives think. That's mis-placed loyalty, Jim.

As for his comments about Catholic schools, if Trump made a similar remark about madrasas in this country, you'd be crying Islamophobia.

Carlos Ponce

Jim can post whatever he wants (within GCDN guidelines) but Scottish Catholics were offended by Obama's remarks. See

"US President undermines Catholic schools after Vatican Prefect praised them"

http://www.sconews.co.uk/news/29253/us-president-undermines-catholic-schools-after-vatican-prefect-praised-them/

"The US politician made the unfounded claim despite a top Vatican official spelling out the undeniable good done by Catholic education in a speech in Glasgow on Saturday and in his homily at Mass on Friday."

The Scots call Obama a liar.

Jim Forsythe

A Scottish newspaper(The Scotsman) calls on its readers to 'remember what kind of man Trump really is.'

Trump's latest trip abroad has been unfolded exactly as one might have predicted based upon his prior travels: humiliating himself and the United States, angering our allies, pleasing our enemies, and garnering plenty of protest.

That protest includes a scathing editorial from The Scotsman, arguing in great detail that Trump "is a racist, a serial liar, and either a sex abuser or someone who falsely brags about being one in the apparent belief that this will impress other men in a metaphorical 'locker room.

Ted Cruz calls Donald Trump a 'pathological liar' after Mr Trump suggests Mr Cruz’s father was linked to JFK .

Carlos Ponce

Here we go again about Ted Cruz who KNOWS it was mere political rhetoric. Question is - will Jim????

Emile Pope

Just taking statements President Obama make and calling them lies? Still waiting for that check from Mexico...

Carlos Ponce

"I often stated, 'One way or the other, Mexico is going to pay for the Wall.' This has never changed. Our new deal with Mexico (and Canada), the USMCA, is so much better than the old, very costly & anti-USA NAFTA deal, that just by the money we save, MEXICO IS PAYING FOR THE WALL!" - President Trump

Jim Forsythe

When the USMCA starts, it does not mean that the money will be for Trump to do what he wants. The money will belong to the USA and not Trump. He will have to budget it, or continue to take money away from funding for things like the military.

Trump couldn’t get Congress to agree to pass funding for his wall, even when Republicans had complete control of both chamber, so he has resorted to an executive power grab to get it built. He’s trying to seize $3.8 billion in Pentagon funds and redirect it toward building the wall.

When President Donald Trump ran on building a massive border wall in 2016, his claim that Mexico would pay for it was a empty promise. Mexico has paid zero for wall. Mexico being part of USMCA, does not mean they are paying or will be paying for the wall!

"sunset" the deal after 16 years

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.), an ardent free trader and only Senate Republican to oppose the deal, argued that the deal will actually limit trade through measures that "sunset" the deal after 16 years, weaken protections for U.S. investors and apply new supply chain requirements.

The USMCA includes a "whole series of protectionist measures that are designed to diminish trade and investment," Toomey said on the Senate floor.

Carlos Ponce

"or continue to take money away from funding for things like the military." Are you that out of touch, Jim? SCOTIS ruled it was okay to use on the border barrier for now.

"Supreme Court allows Trump to use disputed military funds for border wall"

And here's a LIBERAL source just for Jim:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/supreme-court-lets-trump-use-disputed-military-funds-for-border-wall.html

Jim Forsythe

Trump is not getting funding for the wall from the USMCA. "build the wall and make Mexico pay for it." has not happen, and will not.

Programs that will take a hit this year under the money grab includes the Air Force’s F-35 program, which is set to lose $156 million for procurement, with aircraft funding in total to take a $1.4 billion hit.

Shipbuilding will also suffer, with the landing helicopter assault replacement program losing $650 million and the expeditionary fast transport program losing $261 million.

Another $1.3 billion meant for equipment for the National Guard and reserves will also now be funneled to border construction.

“We urge you to bear in mind that Congress has paid for the projects you have cancelled once, and we are under no obligation to pay for them a second time.”

Carlos Ponce

"Trump is not getting funding for the wall from the USMCA. "build the wall and make Mexico pay for it." has not happen, and will not." That's a ridiculous statement, Jim. The increased revenue as you previously stated goes into the general fund. More money for everything. The law states military funds can be used for border security including the border "fence" .

https://www.govregs.com/uscode/10/284

SCOTUS has ruled this legal. No amount of Liberal doublespeak can prevent the funding.

Carlos Ponce

Michael Jozwiak, die Gedanken sind frei!

Charles Douglas

I enjoyed this article also because it reveals several things about individuals' thinking or thought patterns in this country. First, there are people in this country who have guilt complexes about dwelling in a country of prosperity and plenty. They are like their prior President who felt a need to not only apologize to the rest of the world, but had an overwhelming desire to change this nation to be not above and exceptional to the rest of the world but bring it back, to be in the same condition other nations existed in. He even said so out of his own mouth!! "I will fundamentally change this nation and the world before I'm finished!" He almost did to! He wrote checks "CROOKED" was expected to cash for him, but up POPPED "TRUMP DIESEL!" Trump has been a thorn in the side of the LEFT and the DEEP STATE since he took his hand off the swear-in bible! He is slowly but slowly ...draining the SWAMP! One of the things I'm learned about the Kingom Of Darkness, is if you put pressure on it,..that KINGDOM will put pressure on you! So will the SWAMP! The second thing this article shows is the demonic desire of the LEFT to get rid of an individual who gets results! This President has a unique abiliity, or gift to accomplish the spectacular or the unexpected! This drives the Devil, and his minions crazy! TRUMP DIESEL rolls into this nation's capital and start reaping and producing results .. delivering on promises he campaigned on! He kept those promises. He delivered for Israel, where the last President stabbed Israel in the back! He helped African-Americans, HISPANIC, ASIANS, & WOMEN live better, obtain jobs, and getting off welfare! He returned America to be the most powerful deterrent to rogue nations in the world by having a military second to none and by killing terrorists like Soleimani and Abu Baghdaddi! He destroyed the ISIS CALIPHATE in a matter of months when the last President was scratching his head seeking answers. So, "PEEP" this! The LEFT is scared to death, ..they only have lies they say TRUMP told and his bad attitude to charge him with. I don't give a d@÷> about Trump's attitude!!!! I care about RESULTS!! I sent him to DC to get RESULTS!!!!!!

Charles Douglas

I'm not finished yet! The LEFT used counter-intelligence tactics meant to be used for spying purposes, but they used this on President Trump and his campaign! They used, wiretaps, & spys meant to be used against foreign governments, The CIA, FBI, NSA, FAKE NEWS, and the DEEP STATE, with all the power which came with them to frame, set up and to destroy TRUMP, and those on his campaign, but failed. The hole they dug for him THEY fell into IT! Then, they had career spies in the National Security Group to set up a Fake Quid Pro Quo charge, by the use of a Non whistleblower, and that failed! NOW....from coast to coast they hum in unity ..." TRUMP IS A LIAR...HE LIES AND LIES!" Is that the best the LEFT can do? To this I say .. Trumpites will support this President for making America Great, and Keeping it Great! We don't want FREE STUFF WHICH ISN'T FREE!! We dont want open borders, we don't want our First, Second, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments taken away, we don't want the Electoral College changed. Learn this and LEARN it well, TRUMP DIESEL is the leader of this country for the next Five years!![beam]

David Hardee

Carlos, well done! Seems you recorded Obama's multitude of "lies" and Emile is referring to Trump's few "lies" that were repeated a multitude of times.

Carlos Ponce

I've got hundreds more to fulfill Emile's thousand but he's simply going to post "Simply making things up..." again without bothering to see for himself or inform me of at least one he finds "made up" so I can provide evidence.

Richard Cacioppo

[thumbup] painful to be reminded of all the lies and damage we had to endure. Spot on!

Charles Douglas

Here is one lie Mr. PONCE ...which you might have missed! " I WILL Fundamentally Change this nation and the world before I'm done!" ...Barack H. Obama. Don't remember if you included that one. That was one of his BIGGEST lies! Let me say this, without hesitation "ah-tall"..Mr. Carlos Ponce is one of the GREATEST GDN " Forum Participators of All-time!! I remember him from way back years ago on this forum! The man is an "OG" along with Gary, and Mr. Gray with the GDN!! Hats off to these guys.[thumbup]

Paula Flinn

I would say that President Obama fulfilled the promise to fundamentally change this nation by getting the ACA passed, saving the American Automobile Industry, saving the Banks, promoting new housing and construction, giving a one time incentive, passing the Lilly Ledbetter Law for equal pay for women, passing many environmental regulations for clean air and water, saving more animals on the endangered list, banning lead shot protecting animals and birds, honoring Native American burial grounds, banning harmful pesticides being sprayed on our field of grain and other foods.

First Lady Michelle Obama introduced a more healthy diet for children in public schools. The Obama’s believed in improving inner-city public schools. Advances in science and technology were applauded and acknowledged.

President Obama limited logging, fracking, mining, and drilling which destroys the land and opposed offshore drilling which can destroy oceans.

OWe have lost so much with President Trump reversing everything that Obama accomplished. Our quality of life is not as good, and our confidence in our leader, who calls things he doesn’t like “hoaxes” and “witch hunts,” is gone.

Your list of Obama “lies” were not true “bald-faced” lies like Trump’s are. Obama’s promises embodied his vision and what he hoped to do for the country and the world. Trump’s lies are “after-the-fact,”. And we know his statements and tweets aren’t true because he lies about things that have already happened, like his (not so perfect) phone call to the Ukraine, which he knew was flawed.

Obama apologized when the insurance policies some people held were not acceptable by the ACA because they didn’t cover diseases or conditions of pre-existing conditions. He really thought more people could keep their doctors and their plans. So it was a mistake, not a lie. My own plan was not lacking in that respect. I kept my Doctor and my plan. With the passing of the ACA, millions of children received healthcare that had not been able to before. When the Republicans removed the mandate, the premiums went up. The Republicans sabotaged the ACA.

Also, had Mitch McConnell and the Republicans been more accepting of the President’s vision, Obama would have fulfilled his promises and ideas

more completely.

Trumps lies are lies about what has occurred already. Obama’s “lies” were promises unfulfilled because the Republicans were unwilling to approve of Obama’s vision for improving people’s lives. The Republicans didn’t want Obama to succeed. And that was very obvious. He and his wife and children were insulted by right-wing ideologues like Steve Bannon and Rush Limbaugh that displayed their racism. The “noose” jokes were not funny.

With all of the chaos in Washington D.C, most of us would love to have Obama back as our President, even with the flawed Iran Deal and the unfairness of the Paris Accord, and other treaties and agreements the US invested in where they paid more than other countries. We had allies before Trump, and we had hope for the future.

The US is bigger and richer than most European countries. Much is expected from a country that has so much to begin with. Profits and greed of CEO’s are not the things that makes a country great.

The small farmers who didn’t get fair subsidies are having a very hard time. They had markets for their crops during the Obama years. Trump’s raising tariffs on other countries products hurt the small farmers. Many have gone out of business now. They have little hope of getting those markets back.

I would say that Republicans accuse the Democrats of doing “evil“ things that they are doing themselves. Everything Trump accused Hillary of being, he was himself. He was crooked and corrupt, and he still is

History will not judge Trump lightly. The President is busy proving what an untouchable dictator he can be by breaking the law and behaving badly without consequences. I think that the Republican Conservatives are on the wrong side of history.

They declined to impeach President Trump out of fear of him and the fear of losing their jobs.

Carlos Ponce

And with that nonsense you have written, President Trump will be re-elected.

Bailey Jones

I see Carlos is up to his old tricks - diversion and the straw man.

Is there seriously anyone here who cannot see that the lies of Donald Trump are different, both qualitatively and quantitatively, from every other president we've known in our lifetimes? I'm left to believe that some of you must be following the famous Trump/Orwellism -

"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening."

Carlos Ponce

No straw men here, Bailey.

Bailey Jones

"I would not be just a nuffin'

My head all full of stuffin'

My heart all full of pain

I would dance and be merry

Life would be a ding-a-derry

If I only had a brain"

Carlos Ponce

I wish you had one too, Bailey![wink] Maybe one of the Democrat presidential candidates will promise to give you one. On second thought, based on their statements, I don't believe they have any to spare.[ohmy]

Charles Douglas

Nowww! Let me think! Naw! Naw! Just let me think! Let me see now: 1) The Russian Hoax - Didn't work. 2) Stormy Daniels- Didn't work. 3) The Great Quid Pro Quo Set-Up - Didn't work. 4) The Great Democrat Who Would Take Trump Out " Michael Avenatti - He just got convicted on one of many SLIM-BALL THEFT & FRAUD charges and is locked up and will no doubt be dis-BARRED. Everytime the LEFT and The DEMOCRATS come after Trump with their half-baked ideas and silly plans of destructions, they end up making spectacles of themselves! One question, "Who Next or What Next?" Bring it!!!! Since I can't convince the LEFT of who they are actually fighting, ...then LET the chips fall where they May! I remember back in 2016, in the Republican Primaries, JEB Bush, and Marco Rubio, and several others were good at saying, "Donald Trump will NEVER be the Republican Nominee!" Guess who was not only the Republican Nominee but also the Oval Office Occupant? Donald J Trump! Why am I saying this? Okay, go to Vegas and figure the world's odds of TRUMP beating the BUSH DYNASTY, and the CLINTON POLITICAL MACHINE and waltzing into the White House. Look, allow me one more chance and this will be the last time I will mention it: "There is no Wisdom, Insight, nor Plan which can prevail against the LORD!"....Proverbs 21:30. I might add that King Balak of MOAB and the Giant GOLIATH the Philistine, missed all the clues too, so don't feel bad for you are not alone! You can lament, cuss, agonize, hate, and lie on Trump all you want, but Donald John Trump is not going anywhere, can't yall see that yet? Man!!!!!!

Paula Flinn

And how did he get it, Charles? By lying and “branding” his opponents. By not being held accountable for his crimes. By paying off the lawsuits filed against him. By hiding his tax returns. By hiding his incompetence. By Lying about almost everything (starting with crowd size) to deceive you and the rest of the American people. Part of his plan is to destroy the careers of people who told the truth when they were subpoenaed to testify about Trump’s own words and deeds. What kind of person does that? A coward (with power) seeking revenge. The cruelty is the point of this Administration. Did you miss all of those clues?

“Can’t y’all see that yet? Man!”

Charlotte O'rourke

I enjoy reading Dan’s editorial commentary as it makes the reader put on the critical thinking cap. I read the first line and thought ORF what does a disease have to do with falsity. I’m still smiling as I looked up different meanings.

I don’t like deliberate lying and “alternative facts” - regardless of political party. I don’t condone deliberate rudeness and incivility in political discussions - regardless of political party.

This editorial is a keeper.

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