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Craig Mason

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Bailey Jones

Willful ignorance seems to be rampant. I suppose that's to be expected after 4 years of a reality TV presidency. And I get it. "Magical thinking" just feels better than rational fact-based thinking, which is often difficult and disappointing.

"Do you believe in fairies? Say quick that you believe!

If you believe, clap your hands!

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you! And now to rescue Wendy!"

Dan Freeman

So called herd immunity will not happen unless you believe in pseudo-science and pixie dust.

Wayne D Holt

Complete and utter balderdash that has been refuted point by point by world-class epidemiological research institutions, Oxford trained pathologists, countless studies done for decades, new research using the most sensitive measuring instruments available to human beings...and yet the hysteria continues.

I have provided since mid-March countless links, direct quotes, research summaries and the professional opinions of some the best minds on the planet that what we have been told is the case, and what the case is, simply aren't the same thing. Or is Stanford not legit enough for you?

I find the same headline numbers shouted out time and again, yet when I painstakingly post the verbatim words from professional bodies that call into question the entire basis of this malarkey, it goes unanswered.

It is not ME making the claims. Unless and until evidence is presented that discredits the sources I have laid out here time and again, you are spouting nonsense...or at best unproven hypothesis.

The idea the "science is settled" is flim flam and just the Big Lie repeated ad infinitum. When the direct supporters of the mouthpieces for this narrative can be shown to financially unpin, and direct, outcomes that benefit pharmaceutical makers and their highly paid front-men, it behooves us to use a little common sense and follow the money.

Instead, the excitement builds for vaccines that genetically alter you, have been rushed through research, have never been used en masse on humans and provide total legal immunity to the producers.

If the truth is so obvious, the naysayers so easy to refute, the resistance to the narrative such abject ignorance as claimed here, why is every organ of institutionalized news, healthcare and social media united in erecting a wall of silence they seek to surround alternative information with? Easy to understand. Because the narrative we're getting CAN'T STAND SCRUTINY. Your ears are being covered, your eyes are being blinkered because to allow you to see and share all the information, uncurated and uncensored in content would spell the end of the story for the grotesque example of human control this has become.

Bailey Jones

Here's the problem with your posts, Wayne. They don't address observable reality. Here are the observable facts, a sequence of testing, hospitalizations, and death that has repeated itself, in unerring fashion, in every country on the planet.

It goes like this.

1) Testing indicates a surge in COVID cases. This is ALWAYS followed in a couple of weeks by

2) A surge in hospitalizations, often straining or exceeding the capacity of the health care system, which is ALWAYS followed in another 2-4 weeks by

3) A surge of deaths, often straining or exceeding the capacity of the coroner/funeral system.

This pattern repeats, always the same, in city after city. The disease burns through an area then pops up somewhere else with the exact same pattern.

You claim that the tests are useless. Why then does the number of positives go up just before a surge in hospitalizations? The simple and obvious reason is that the tests actually do what they have been proven to do in scientific trials - they detect the presence of viral infection.

You post a lot of "experts". And it's the same class of experts that I see appearing in every conspiratorial explanation of events. It's never someone on the front lines fighting the disease, like the one I heard from today, who has treated COVID patients for 270 days without a day off. It's always some guy with a college degree in a similar related field who is sure - with no scientific evidence to back up his conjecture - that the people who are doing the real work have it all wrong.

Any explanation for the observable reality has to explain that reality:

1) Testing shows a surge in cases

2) Hospitalizations surge

3) Deaths surge

If the tests aren't detecting viral infection, what are they detecting? If people aren't being hospitalized due to complications from COVID, then why are they being hospitalized? If COVID isn't killing people, why are we having these unprecedented spikes in deaths in city after city after city all around the world?

What is your explanation for our reality?

Wayne D Holt

Bailey, how can you miss the obvious when I couldn't have made the point more clearly since at least May?

"1) Testing indicates a surge in COVID cases. " You're already off the rails. Testing is done using the rtPCR tests. My last few posts have quoted the Infectious Diseases Society of America and former VP and chief scientific advisor of Pfizer Pharmaceuticals as pointing out what the HUGE problem is with the test results you just accept. I didn't make this up: the people who work with this data outline exactly how your starting point is wrong. Gary Scoggin, who is not a supporter of my position, took the trouble to learn more about the test and the associated issue with it, including the fact the Nobel prize in Chemistry winner who invented the test said it was not a tool to be used of diagnosis. Go back to my previous post; you either missed it or don't care to address it. A "surge in cases" is easy to understand when the tests are turning up RNA fragments of every kind of cornona virus, including Covid. These are then listed as "cases," which mean you had to take a test to know you had it.

2) Present the evidence in your claim. I want to see something more than a CNN headline from a CDC bulletin. Present the studies or just one from an independent institution or research team that shows Covid hospitalizations are overwhelming the medical system across the country. You should also provide some information on why people with co-morbidities dying WITH Covid--as shown by the hyper amped up cycle testing--are dying OF Covid. You should also explain why the CDC included pneumonia and common influenza along with Covid numbers.

3) As 2) above. Where is the data coming from that "city after city" is being overwhelmed? I want to see the same level of source cite that I have provided since May, which have been studies and not CDC press release level. After all, if we were having this discussion in April, I would be able to quote the CDC as saying masks on health people was unneeded.

"If the tests aren't detecting viral infection, what are they detecting" See 1) above

"If people aren't being hospitalized due to complications from COVID, then why are they being hospitalized?" For starters, for all the usual respiratory issues that are experienced every year, for their primary morbidity which may be aggravated by Covid or by other factors. They may also be hospitalized for conditions that are tangential to Covid, but financially advantageous to the hospital. As Snopes confirmed, Medicare premiums of $13,000 to $39,000 flow to hospitals with "Covid" admissions rather than flu or pneumonia. I wonder if that mght inflate Covid numbers. I wonder, wonder, wonder...

"You post a lot of "experts". And it's the same class of experts that I see appearing in every conspiratorial explanation of events. It's never someone on the front lines fighting the disease..." Stanford, Oxford, now thousands of doctors worldwide including front line providers, independent journalists not on the payroll of GAVI or Big Pharma? Thanks for the heads-up that you prefer isolated anecdotal evidence over a global pushback over this narrative. I will bet you money that 95% of the sources I quoted since March are more credentialed in the relevant science than Dr. Fauci, apparently your go-to guy.

I don't have more time to go over what has been thoroughly explained since May, at least. Please jump on the vaccine train when it roars into town and let me know how that goes after a year or two.

Here's a parting shot that should make your day regarding your position of the crucial role masks play in preventing the spread of Covid: "...there was no statistically significant difference between those who wore masks and those who did not when it came to being infected by Covid-19."

"When it comes to masks, it appears there is still little good evidence they prevent the spread of airborne diseases. The results of the Danmask-19 trial mirror other reviews into influenza-like illnesses. Nine other trials looking at the efficacy of masks (two looking at healthcare workers and seven at community transmission) have found that masks make little or no difference to whether you get influenza or not." Authored by two nobodies: Carl Heneghan is professor of evidence-based medicine at the University of Oxford and director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine and Tom Jefferson is a senior associate tutor and honorary research fellow at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, University of Oxford.

Wayne D Holt

Also noteworthy: Bailey, you like to throw around "conspiracy" as sort of a universal solvent against legitimate evidence. You know, or at least should know, "conspiracy theorist" was a term first widely trafficked by the CIA beginning in the late 1960s to discredit critics of Security State policies and to dissuade and divert inquiry that would prove to be difficult to explain, should the public begin to accept it.

A FOI demand by the NY Times in 1976 unearthed a CIA psychological operations dispatch with the purpose of influencing American public opinion by countering investigations of Security State operations. Two brief excerpts:

"The aim of this dispatch is to provide material countering and discrediting the claims of the conspiracy theorists..."

"b. To employ propaganda assets to and refute the attacks of the critics. Book reviews and feature articles are particularly appropriate for this purpose. "

It should also be noted that Operation Mockingbird was a CIA operation whose goal was to put CIA journalist assets into every influential news source in America beginning in the late 1950s. The object was to massage, shape and, when necessary, fabricate "news" to benefit the policies of the military/industrial complex and the .00001% wealthiest of the population.

When folks see the words "conspiracy theorist" it is usually either a deliberate attempt to obscure the underlying issue or, as in Bailey's case I assume, from drinking too deeply at the MSM fount.

Bailey Jones

Well, Wayne, I was hoping that you would be able to provide me with a map that would allow me to see your theory in light of my observations of the sequence of testing, hospitalizations, and deaths. But, if I understand you correctly, the tests aren't detecting anything, the 74,573 laboratory-confirmed COVID-19-associated hospitalizations are not due to COVID (and aren't in excess of what is seen in a typical year), and the 268,134 deaths that have been attributed to COVID complications are deaths due to other causes (and aren't in excess of what is seen in a typical year).

I simply can't accept that interpretation. The reason I can't is that it implies coordinated fraud on a massive scale on the part of health care workers, doctors, scientists, coroners, medical examiners, and civil servants in every city and country in the world - people who fake test results to provide a surge in testing, people who then fake hospital records to show a surge in hospitalizations, and people who then fake death certificates to provide a surge in deaths. It's too much. I'll take the simple answer - there's a pandemic happening.

I do appreciate your link to the Denmark mask study. It may well be that when the science is done it's proven that wearing a mask won't protect you from infection. But since the main reason for wearing a mask is to protect others - and this study didn't address that - I'll keep on wearing my mask.

It's an interesting outcome though - since we** know that practicing the three tenets of the protocol (wearing a mask, washing your hands, and maintaining social distancing) does have an effect on the spread of COVID. (** "We" being those of us who believe that COVID is a real disease with real and devastating consequences.) If masks aren't effective, and the science is starting to look like spread by surface contact is also not a big concern - that only leaves social distancing. And that conclusion implies more lockdowns.

Wayne D Holt

Bailey, to take your last point first: I have ALWAYS and at ALL TIMES supported social distancing, the same practice I have used for 20+ years to avoid the flu and avoid the flu shots. I have no problem with voluntary distancing: in fact, voluntary distancing is the only method I am aware of that would satisfy both the rabid maskers and the rabid anti-maskers. The reason is simple: it puts in the hands of every single person the ability to calibrate their risk/reward and adjust their behavior accordingly. If you see me coming without a mask, you may move 3, 6, 9ft away, to what you consider to be safe. I have done the same thing for years, including stepping out of elevators before the doors closed if someone is coughing. I am 100% in favor of that, NOT mandatory emergency orders and lockdowns that are selectively designed and selectively enforced. I also have no obligation to let your fears or your risk/reward profile limit my ability to earn a living, travel as I wish, worship when I want, etc. Quarantines have always been used on those who had an infectious disease. Only with Covid-19 has the entire population of the world been subject to lockdowns for a disease that has a fatality rate of <2%, most being those with co-morbidity.

The rest of your post gives me insight into why this has been such a difficult topic for you and I to reach agreement on. Fundamentally, you trust information we are given from the government as to reasons and I simply do not. Based on a long history of deceit, treachery, corruption, self-dealing, double standards and violence against those who disagree with it, my default position is to doubt what I am told from the top. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue; the system itself is corrupted by the power and wealth it bestows on those who put personal enrichment over the well being of the American people.

I have a current Johns Hopkins study that fairly disposes of the "settled science" of Covid as the source of excess deaths. It is another example of buy on the rumor, sell on the news data reporting. I'll try posting tomorrow when I have more time.

Thomas Carpenter

Kudos gentlemen!

Ted Gillis

I use the scroll button on all of Charles’s posts, because he asked me to some time ago, and on David Hardee’s because he also asked me to, and now on Wayne’s posts too, because I can’t figure out what heck he is talking about.

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