The PATRIOTIC HOUSE REPUBLICANS voted to raise the debt ceiling about a month ago. Lalacona, are you forgetful or or just misinformed? Read
"House Republicans pass US debt bill, push Biden on spending - House Republicans have narrowly passed a sweeping debt ceiling package as they try to push President Biden into negotiations on federal spending " Apr 27, 2023
McCarthy is beholden to the handful of super-MAGAs that got him elected Speaker. People linked Marjorie Taylor-Greene that just want to burn it all down and have little taste for actually governing. Biden, playing to his constituency, wants to shine a light on the radical Republicans and appear strong by not yielding an inch and insisting on a “clean bill.” Trump, of course, complicates this by saying a national debt default is not so bad.
It’s time for McCarthy, Biden, assisted by McConnell and Jeffries, to get off the butts, check politics at the door and fix the mess they have created.
And Joe "Slow" is beholding to the "WOKE-LEFTISTS..."Go Green Or Else Radicals" ...and Xi JINPING and Red China! McCarthy needs to stand his ground! It is time somebody stood up to this Incompetent, KKK LOVING, OLD RACIST in the Oval Office bent on destroying America! [beam]
That's because I'm not one of the usual blind sheep traveling with my head down following the WOKE-LEFT's divisive plans at all cost! I don't need Yall's hand-outs, therefore I call it like I see it....EVERYWHERE I GO! [beam].
The WOKE-LEFT don't like African-Americans like me, because I know their pmay-book! Anymore questions? [beam]
Gary S. > Fixing the mess requires the debt limit not being raised again. Not this year or ever. The government has enough monthly income to pay all constitutional required bills without borrowing a penny. The only thing shut down would be the 30% of government we should not have. No default needed. The debt limit should not be raised. Keep it where it is and run government on income without borrowing any thing.
Gary S. . Spending is not governing. Governing is spending only what is required not buying votes with government freebies. The US is well on the way toward "BANKRUPTACY" which will be far greater problem than not raising a bloated debt limit.
The debt ceiling is unconstitutional according to the 14th Amendment. It is a political albatross with potentially catastrophic economic consequences that should be jettisoned. The budgeting process is where spending should be proactively discussed and agreed upon. There should be no decision not to pay the bills on expenditures that have already been made.
I think the legal consensus is that the 14th Amendment approach wouldn’t pass a Court challenge, regardless of the Court composition. The context of the 14A was picking up debt of the slave states and reparations for freed slaves during Reconstruction. I don’t remember the details offhand but I heard a great interview with a constitutional law professor (who was sympathetic to Biden) lay all of this out.
Gary, I know that there are differing legal opinions about that since it has never been challenged. However, I ascribe to the opinion of Laurence Tribe, Professor of American Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School. He recently stated that he believes that the President has the duty to pay the nation's debts under the 14th Amendment so that the full faith and credit of the United States shall not be questioned. Therefore, he said that he believes that it is one of the President's Constitutional duties to protect the United States' full faith and credit. That makes sense to me.
Diane > Tribe had a different idea several years ago. He wanted to protect Social Security by converting all "tax deferred wealth" like 401 K and IRA accounts to SS and using the money for extra SS payments for citizens who had owned the accounts. Over half [ 52.29 %] of the National debt is owned by US Citizens, enough to pay off the national debt. It would not be a debt default just a conversion of citizen's wealth to future SS payments.
An interesting article in yesterday’s WSJ asserts that the 14A mandates the government to pay interest first and other functions of government second, that is, it is illegal for the government to default on debt. It must shut down sufficient government operations necessary to free up cash flow for interest payments.
(Thanks Chris D. For sharing the article with me.)
Gary S.> Our government doesn't run on what some idiot at WSJ says. The Constitution Rules us and the WSJ. The 14 amendment was passed to address problems after the Civil war. It has nothing to say about The debt limit. Some spend and spend Democrats are hoping some dummys can be convinced the 14 is the way for unlimited spending. The SCOTUS would reject that Idea in short order.
A President must be careful about evoking the 14th. it has never been used and I believe it will not be used this time.
If used, it would be challenged in the Supreme Court and take some time to decide if it can be used. While being decided if it can be used, the USA would either be in default, or a temp budget would have to happen.
If it is decided the President can use it, nothing would prevent a President from evoking the 14th for whatever they wanted in terms of a budget, regardless of what anyone else wanted.
Would the President 14th amendment budget be used from then on, verse the House and Senates budget?
According to Professor Tribe, as a Presidential duty it would not end up being litigated. I'm not sure how it applies to a budget, since the wording applies to debts already incurred that must be paid, not the budget, which is a separate process.
Although Section 4 was undoubtedly inspired by the desire to put beyond question the obligations of the government issued during the Civil War, its language indicates a broader connotation. . .. '[T]he validity of the public debt'. . . [embraces] whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations and applies to government bonds issued after as well as before adoption of the Amendment.
Refer to the CURRENT Supreme Court majority, Jim. It rejected the BROAD interpretation of Roe v Wade and you expect them to accept their BROAD interpretation here? [rolleyes]
As Perry v. United States is still what we go by, " '[T]he validity of the public debt'. . . [embraces] whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations and applies to government bonds issued after as well as before adoption of the Amendment" is the rule, unless it is changed.
The Supreme Court will not change this because it spells out what to do. They would refuse to rule on this, as it has already been ruled on.
Placing the USA in a position of defaulting on dept is not what the Supreme Court would want to be known for.
Just as other have said, the 14th would be used to pay some of bill's in a order. Just let Social Security not send out money and see what a mob of gray-haired protesters do, when they are fighting to survive.
Any politician that would vote against paying Social Security, would not stand a chance of reelection.
The House has already passed a debt limit increase and budget reversion. The only way we can have a debt default would be if Biden Vetoes them. Actually a default can't happen even if he does. US monthly tax income is 70 % of budget. That 70% will pay all debt service and all required of budget.
Our man McCarthy will raise the debt ceiling when the WOKE-LEFT stop operating on spending frenzies like schools of piranhas in water feeding on a big dead prey! "COOL" needs to.stop giving our hard earned taxes to his buddy XI JINPING by spending it on the Green Deal, and that would help! [beam][beam]
Also, when the WOKE ,stop using our tax money to buy votes by paying for others' college loans, war materials, & Reparations....then we will raise the.ceiling,... until then ....NO! LOLOLO [beam]
Evidently you haven’t noticed that when the traitor Republicans are in power the debt ceiling isn’t a problem. But it’s the opposite when they are not in power.
Evidently Lalacona hasn't noticed that when the PATRIOTIC Republicans were in power the debt ceiling was raised to cover CONSTITUTIONAL provided for expenditures such as Defense. They want to raise the current debt ceiling but cut back on the huge amount of PORK in the current budget before it becomes LEGACY.
The 2023 Congressional Pig Book Summary contains items that were:
Requested by only one chamber of Congress;
Not specifically authorized;
Not competitively awarded;
Not requested by the President;
Greatly exceeds the President’s budget request or the previous year’s funding;
During Donald Trump’s presidency, the U.S. national debt increased by $8.18 trillion, a percentage increase of 40.43%. Donald Trump was in office for only 4 years compared to 8 years for Barack Obama.
Once again, Jim does not get it. D-E-F-E-N-S-E. D-E-F-E-N-S-E. D-E-F-E-N-S-E! Because of the Obama administration's actions there was a need to increase the DEFENSE budget. That expenditure is from the United States CONSTITUTION. On the other hand, Biden era expenditures contained a LOT OF NON-CONSTITUTIONAL PORK in addition to the Constitutional provisions. House Republicans are willing to raise the debt ceiling as long as some of the PORK is cut.
Which of the following years did Trump spend all that money on defense. Spending on the military has increased under Biden, but that is just a natural thing that happens with each passing year. All President have pork in their budgets.
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(42) comments Back to story
Can someone please explain just why the traitor Republicans could raise the debt ceiling three times for the Trump character but not once for Biden?
The PATRIOTIC HOUSE REPUBLICANS voted to raise the debt ceiling about a month ago. Lalacona, are you forgetful or or just misinformed? Read
"House Republicans pass US debt bill, push Biden on spending - House Republicans have narrowly passed a sweeping debt ceiling package as they try to push President Biden into negotiations on federal spending " Apr 27, 2023
https://www.galvnews.com/news_ap/business/house-republicans-pass-us-debt-bill-push-biden-on-spending/article_be094144-cac0-5416-ab65-2679c759c056.html
McCarthy is beholden to the handful of super-MAGAs that got him elected Speaker. People linked Marjorie Taylor-Greene that just want to burn it all down and have little taste for actually governing. Biden, playing to his constituency, wants to shine a light on the radical Republicans and appear strong by not yielding an inch and insisting on a “clean bill.” Trump, of course, complicates this by saying a national debt default is not so bad.
It’s time for McCarthy, Biden, assisted by McConnell and Jeffries, to get off the butts, check politics at the door and fix the mess they have created.
And Joe "Slow" is beholding to the "WOKE-LEFTISTS..."Go Green Or Else Radicals" ...and Xi JINPING and Red China! McCarthy needs to stand his ground! It is time somebody stood up to this Incompetent, KKK LOVING, OLD RACIST in the Oval Office bent on destroying America! [beam]
For someone that always complains of WOKEness, it is interesting that you're always the first to bring racism into the conversation.
That's because I'm not one of the usual blind sheep traveling with my head down following the WOKE-LEFT's divisive plans at all cost! I don't need Yall's hand-outs, therefore I call it like I see it....EVERYWHERE I GO! [beam].
The WOKE-LEFT don't like African-Americans like me, because I know their pmay-book! Anymore questions? [beam]
So, I will ask you a straight-up question. Is the US defaulting on its debt a very bad thing that should be avoided at all costs?
You tell us Gary
I was asking Charles, but if you ask me - Yes, it's a very bad thing that should be avoided at all costs.
Gary S. > Fixing the mess requires the debt limit not being raised again. Not this year or ever. The government has enough monthly income to pay all constitutional required bills without borrowing a penny. The only thing shut down would be the 30% of government we should not have. No default needed. The debt limit should not be raised. Keep it where it is and run government on income without borrowing any thing.
Gary S. . Spending is not governing. Governing is spending only what is required not buying votes with government freebies. The US is well on the way toward "BANKRUPTACY" which will be far greater problem than not raising a bloated debt limit.
The debt ceiling is unconstitutional according to the 14th Amendment. It is a political albatross with potentially catastrophic economic consequences that should be jettisoned. The budgeting process is where spending should be proactively discussed and agreed upon. There should be no decision not to pay the bills on expenditures that have already been made.
I think the legal consensus is that the 14th Amendment approach wouldn’t pass a Court challenge, regardless of the Court composition. The context of the 14A was picking up debt of the slave states and reparations for freed slaves during Reconstruction. I don’t remember the details offhand but I heard a great interview with a constitutional law professor (who was sympathetic to Biden) lay all of this out.
Gary, I know that there are differing legal opinions about that since it has never been challenged. However, I ascribe to the opinion of Laurence Tribe, Professor of American Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School. He recently stated that he believes that the President has the duty to pay the nation's debts under the 14th Amendment so that the full faith and credit of the United States shall not be questioned. Therefore, he said that he believes that it is one of the President's Constitutional duties to protect the United States' full faith and credit. That makes sense to me.
Diane > Tribe had a different idea several years ago. He wanted to protect Social Security by converting all "tax deferred wealth" like 401 K and IRA accounts to SS and using the money for extra SS payments for citizens who had owned the accounts. Over half [ 52.29 %] of the National debt is owned by US Citizens, enough to pay off the national debt. It would not be a debt default just a conversion of citizen's wealth to future SS payments.
An interesting article in yesterday’s WSJ asserts that the 14A mandates the government to pay interest first and other functions of government second, that is, it is illegal for the government to default on debt. It must shut down sufficient government operations necessary to free up cash flow for interest payments.
(Thanks Chris D. For sharing the article with me.)
Gary S.> Our government doesn't run on what some idiot at WSJ says. The Constitution Rules us and the WSJ. The 14 amendment was passed to address problems after the Civil war. It has nothing to say about The debt limit. Some spend and spend Democrats are hoping some dummys can be convinced the 14 is the way for unlimited spending. The SCOTUS would reject that Idea in short order.
Turski, even Janet Yellen says the 14th Amendment does not apply.
Read: "Yellen Calls Invoking 14th Amendment to Raise Debt Limit ‘Legally Questionable’ " New York Times May 11, 2023
Carlos, as we noted, there are differing opinions about this issue. I happen to ascribe to Professor Tribe's opinion.
I happen to agree with the current majority of the Supreme Court which relies on original intent.
Diane > Inteligent people stopped beleving you or Tribe long ago.
A President must be careful about evoking the 14th. it has never been used and I believe it will not be used this time.
If used, it would be challenged in the Supreme Court and take some time to decide if it can be used. While being decided if it can be used, the USA would either be in default, or a temp budget would have to happen.
If it is decided the President can use it, nothing would prevent a President from evoking the 14th for whatever they wanted in terms of a budget, regardless of what anyone else wanted.
Would the President 14th amendment budget be used from then on, verse the House and Senates budget?
According to Professor Tribe, as a Presidential duty it would not end up being litigated. I'm not sure how it applies to a budget, since the wording applies to debts already incurred that must be paid, not the budget, which is a separate process.
The 14th Amendment applies to debts incurred during the Civil War.
Although Section 4 was undoubtedly inspired by the desire to put beyond question the obligations of the government issued during the Civil War, its language indicates a broader connotation. . .. '[T]he validity of the public debt'. . . [embraces] whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations and applies to government bonds issued after as well as before adoption of the Amendment.
"its language indicates a broader connotation" The Supreme Court would not agree. Look up ORIGINAL INTENT.
As the above post ( May 23, 2023, 1:49pm) was from Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935), the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on it.
Look on page 294 US 354 of Perry v. United States.
Refer to the CURRENT Supreme Court majority, Jim. It rejected the BROAD interpretation of Roe v Wade and you expect them to accept their BROAD interpretation here? [rolleyes]
As Perry v. United States is still what we go by, " '[T]he validity of the public debt'. . . [embraces] whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations and applies to government bonds issued after as well as before adoption of the Amendment" is the rule, unless it is changed.
The Supreme Court will not change this because it spells out what to do. They would refuse to rule on this, as it has already been ruled on.
Placing the USA in a position of defaulting on dept is not what the Supreme Court would want to be known for.
Just as other have said, the 14th would be used to pay some of bill's in a order. Just let Social Security not send out money and see what a mob of gray-haired protesters do, when they are fighting to survive.
Any politician that would vote against paying Social Security, would not stand a chance of reelection.
"Placing the USA in a position of defaulting on dept is not what the Supreme Court would want to be known for."
Going against the United States Constitution is not what the current Supreme Court would want to be known for.
Keeping what the Supreme Court ruled in 1935 in place, is not going against the United States Constitution.
In 2023, an average of almost 67 million Americans per month will receive a Social Security benefit.
Let the monthly payments stop and watch as the gray-haired protesters converge on the one's responsible.
The House has already passed a debt limit increase and budget reversion. The only way we can have a debt default would be if Biden Vetoes them. Actually a default can't happen even if he does. US monthly tax income is 70 % of budget. That 70% will pay all debt service and all required of budget.
Passage by the House only matters if it is subsequently also passed by the Senate. Which none of this has been.
H.R.2811 - Limit, Save, Grow Act of 2023
It passed the House on April 26, 2023
It was received by the Senate May 1, 2023 and read
May 2, 2023, read for 2nd time in Senate.
May 4, 2023 sent to Senate Budget Committee where it sits.
Bernie needs to do more.
Our man McCarthy will raise the debt ceiling when the WOKE-LEFT stop operating on spending frenzies like schools of piranhas in water feeding on a big dead prey! "COOL" needs to.stop giving our hard earned taxes to his buddy XI JINPING by spending it on the Green Deal, and that would help! [beam][beam]
Also, when the WOKE ,stop using our tax money to buy votes by paying for others' college loans, war materials, & Reparations....then we will raise the.ceiling,... until then ....NO! LOLOLO [beam]
Evidently you haven’t noticed that when the traitor Republicans are in power the debt ceiling isn’t a problem. But it’s the opposite when they are not in power.
Evidently Lalacona hasn't noticed that when the PATRIOTIC Republicans were in power the debt ceiling was raised to cover CONSTITUTIONAL provided for expenditures such as Defense. They want to raise the current debt ceiling but cut back on the huge amount of PORK in the current budget before it becomes LEGACY.
The 2023 Congressional Pig Book Summary contains items that were:
Requested by only one chamber of Congress;
Not specifically authorized;
Not competitively awarded;
Not requested by the President;
Greatly exceeds the President’s budget request or the previous year’s funding;
Not the subject of congressional hearings; or,
Serves only a local or special interest.
31 trillion ......
Obama = 8 trillion
Biden .. so far 3 trillion
Thats 11 trillion
Of 31 trillion .. .. 35%
During Donald Trump’s presidency, the U.S. national debt increased by $8.18 trillion, a percentage increase of 40.43%. Donald Trump was in office for only 4 years compared to 8 years for Barack Obama.
Once again, Jim does not get it. D-E-F-E-N-S-E. D-E-F-E-N-S-E. D-E-F-E-N-S-E! Because of the Obama administration's actions there was a need to increase the DEFENSE budget. That expenditure is from the United States CONSTITUTION. On the other hand, Biden era expenditures contained a LOT OF NON-CONSTITUTIONAL PORK in addition to the Constitutional provisions. House Republicans are willing to raise the debt ceiling as long as some of the PORK is cut.
CUT THE PORK!
CUT THE PORK!
CUT THE PORK!
CUT THE PORK!
Which of the following years did Trump spend all that money on defense. Spending on the military has increased under Biden, but that is just a natural thing that happens with each passing year. All President have pork in their budgets.
U.S. Military Spending/Defense Budget
Year % of GDP
2022----$858B
2021----$800.67B-----3.48%
2020---$778.40B-----3.72%
2019---$734.34B-----3.43%
2018---$682.49B-----3.31%
2017---$646.75B----3.31%
2016---$639.86B----3.41%
2015---$633.83B----3.48%
2014---$647.79B----3.70%
2013---$725.21B----4.05%
2012---$725.21B----4.48%
2011---$752.29B----4.84%
Silly Ted. You know NOT ALL MONEY is spent on Defense. He would like to spend it all on CONSTITUTIONAL items but.... remember PORKULOUS?
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