Government Shutdown Protest

Federal worker Craig Rhodes protests the government shutdown with others outside of NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston on Tuesday, Jan. 15, 2019.

Last week, The Daily News published an editorial warning of the potential pain sitting on the doorsteps of those affected by the protracted partial federal government shutdown.

Less than a week later, federal workers sent home during the shutdown missed their first paychecks.

Leonard Woolsey: 409-683-5207; leonard.woolsey@galvnews.com

President & Publisher

(115) comments

Emile Pope

Yes they are. But when one side says that if you give them everything they want then they’ll return things to normal it’s not negotiating, not compromise...it’s hostage taking. And the willingness of donald to do this while ignoring the hardship faced by American workers shows his indifference to people not named trump...

Carlos Ponce

"We want to work with rank-and-file Democrats," White House Director of Strategic Communications Mercedes Schlapp said Tuesday morning.
Minutes later, the White House announced that those rank-and-file Democrats had decided to boycott the lunch.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-wanted-eat-democrats-lunch-s-why-they-didn-t-n959131
If you're not willing to sit down and talk, how can you compromise?
"But when one side says that if you give them everything they want then they’ll return things to normal it’s not negotiating, not compromise...it’s hostage taking." Emile Pope
Trump has reduced his asking price from $25 billion to $5 Billion. THAT'S COMPROMISE, Emile! Democrats don't want compromise. They don't show up to negotiate. According to Emile's post Democrats are "hostage taking".
To post Trump is "ignoring the hardship faced by American workers" is disingenuous. He wants government to reopen. But he also wants to protect this country from drug smugglers, sex traffickers, etc.
Hardship - Police Cpl. Singh's family is undergoing hardship. Or don't you care?
There are tens of thousands of Angel families. Here's a partial list:
http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp
And yes, there are more than 14 listed. The lack of a proper Border Barrier will add to that list. Or don't you care?
Many are left off the list including teens Kayla Cuevas and Nisa Mickens killed by MS-13 gang members - “ '10 are in the country illegally, two have green cards, and one is a U.S. citizen,' CBS News reported. One of those gang members was previously deported, according to The New York Post." 17 were killed by this gang in Long Island.


Emile Pope

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

MLK

Carlos Ponce

Nice quote, Emile. Looks like MLK knew you.

Doug Sivyer

Emile Pope you are absolutely correct. tRumpos lack of leadership and empathy for the people this really hurts is deplorable. We come to expect this irresponsible behavior from this man.

Carlos Ponce

Doug Sivyer, have you no empathy for the tens of thousands of Angel Families?

Carlos Ponce

Take things in perspective. The shutdown is a hardship for some. But it was not unexpected. Government workers I know prepared for it.
Hurricanes Ike and Harvey were hardships on those who live in this area as well. Some lost their homes. If you prepared, you survived.
Think of the story of the ant and the grasshopper.
http://read.gov/aesop/052.html

Gary Scoggin

So, these concerns are the workers' fault for not being sufficiently prepared. When you were a government employee as a teacher, how long would you have worked without a paycheck, even with the expectation that you'll be paid someday? A week? A month? Three months? A year? How long should you have been prepared for? How long does it take a family just starting out to build a proper reserve?

Carlos Ponce

Gary Scoggin, having an emergency fund is common sense. My friends did. They are inconvenienced but not put out. I have enough saved for several years. I'm saving it for my old age but if need be, it's there.

Dwight Burns

Your statements are a slap in the face to those Government Employees who keep this Country moving forward.

Gary Scoggin

Just curious. For the people here, how long would you continue to show up for work without pay, not knowing how long you’d be furloughed but hoping based on past precedence that you’d be paid retroactively when it’s all over? At what point would you try to find another job?

Doug Sivyer

Maybe 1 week, then its buh bye!

George Croix

The paperwork to provide full back pay has already been signed, Gary...while Nancy and her buddies were vacationing...
But, since you asked, I've showed up for work without pay for as long as a month MANY times in my life.
That;s how long I once had to wait for payday...monthly.
But, you say, I KNEW I'd get paid.
So do the gov't workers.
Again, when we talk about 'fault' keep in mind that the money in play here is NOTHING.
5.7 Billion is chump change compared to the total federal budget right at 4.4 TRILLION. It's the equivalent of a guy making 44 grand a year P&M'g about spending 57 bucks for home security.
The people claiming 'immoral' or 'won't work' or some other absurdity, should get some perspective....
So much for the BS so many of them spout about 'no matter the cost if it saves just one life' on any of a multitude of subjects....

Gary Scoggin

It’s not much money in the grand scheme of things but to many of our local Coast Guard families, it’s a lot. And I was glad to see the guarantee for backpay.

Carlos Ponce

I spoke with a Coast Guard family yesterday at the museum. They're all for the border wall and back President Trump. By the way, he flies rescue helicopters for the USCG.

Ray Taft

Officer Ronil Singh is a government employee who will never again get a paycheck because he was shot dead by an illegal immigrant. How many dead Americans are acceptable to government workers?

Without a border wall about 2,000 Americans die every year at the hands of illegal aliens due to open borders and mass illegal immigration. Democrat Speaker Pelosi refuses to meet with President Trump or even meet with the Angel moms—mothers of children brutally murdered by illegal aliens.

America needs and wants The Wall. President Trump is standing up for all Americans. It is obvious that the Democrats are a party of open borders and crime. They want nothing to do with the major Humanitarian Crisis on our Southern Border.

For the first time in a generation, we have a president who is telling the truth about the crisis on the border and doing something about it. All government employees should be telling Democrats to build The Wall and reform immigration, things that Congress has promised to do for a decade.

Emile Pope

With all of the murders by firearms in this country committed by American citizens, the repubs have done nothing about gun control or even background checks. Yet an extremely low number of Americans killed by illegal immigrants causes an immediate reaction and calls for measures that most people oppose and will not work. It's like Calvera said in the Magnificent Seven " You'll do much better on the other side of the border. There you can steal cattle, hold up trains... all you have to face is sheriff, marshall. Once I rob a bank in Texas; your government get after me with a whole army... whole army! One little bank. Is clear the meaning: in Texas, only Texans can rob banks."

Carlos Ponce

Tell me, what gun control measures would have prevented the deaths of 10 in Santa Fe High School?
Background checks were included in the Grassley - Cruz Bill. It did not pass due to Democrats in 2013. They want to re-introduce it in 2019. Would Emile support such a bill?
"Yet an extremely low number of Americans killed by illegal immigrants..."
What do you consider "an extremely low number", Emile? Documented by the Texas DPS are over a thousand in recent history in this state. That's just one state. Tens of thousands in the country.

Emile Pope

Show me where in the Grassley-Cruz bill it provided for universal background checks and I'll never disagree with anything you write ever.

Carlos Ponce

Text of Grassley - Cruz Amendment to S. 649:
https://www.scribd.com/document/136468111/Grassley-Cruz-Graham-Amendment-to-S-649
Purpose: To address gun violence, improve the availability of records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, address mental illness in the criminal justice system, and end straw purchases and trafficking of illegal firearms, and for other purposes
S. 649
To ensure that all individuals who should be prohibited from buying a firearm are listed in the national instant criminal background check system and require a background check for every firearm sale, and for other purposes.

Emile Pope

The sound of silence...

George Croix

So, Pope, if I have to background check my daughter, part of that 'universal' silliness, before giving her a Glock 36, that will save mass killings......?????
You outdo yourself regularly.....
At some point, actual action against criminals, rather than excusing or ignoring them, might be an approach worth taking. Criminal control. Catchy phrase.....
And. maybe some childhood discipline, and some stable home life, and being held responsible for ones actions during the growing up process, etc.....
You know, those things that some folks like to label with an 'ism' or 'ist' word of some kind......

Emile Pope

If you had bothered to read the universal background check bill called Mancin-Toomey you would have seen that there was a family exemption. But asking a donald supporter to read or gather facts is asking far much than they are capable of...

George Croix

But, Pope, YOU specify a specific bill, just a general statement about background checks.
So, you got a general reply.
Ask some neighborhood 6 year old the difference......

George Croix

Make that "...DIDN'T specify....."....

I'll be specific about that.....

Emile Pope

You made the statement that universal background checks would require your child to go through one if you gave her a gun. That’s garbage. Trying to explain away your ignorance doesn’t change that.

Ron Woody

Senator McConnell and Senator Schumer have been members of Congress for 38 years. Speaker Pelosi has been a member of Congress for 31 years. Who is foolish enough to believe that if the government magically opens Congress will do their job and protect this country and its citizens. The President has been lied to by members of his own party and members of the opposition party. They have both told him they would address the issue. Prior to his attempt to end DACA he gave Congress six months to identify a solution and address this un-constitutional policy as stated by President Obama who implemented the policy.
This is not a debate about whether a border barrier is needed or not or whether it will work or not, that is not even debatable. Richard Kerlikowske, Former Commissioner of Customs & Border Patrol and Former Director of National Drug Control Policy has stated an increased/improved barrier is necessary, "because it works". This has been stated by virtually every professional (that is not concerned with who gets credit) that has been working on the border or responsible for border security from the last 30 years.
Almost every member of Congress has voted for improved border security, inclusive of increased border barrier at some point in their career. What is different now?
A little bit of history, in 2006, there was still an immigration issue, financial institutions were ripping off the American citizen with bad mortgages and investment vehicles and the war in Iraq was still going. What did Congress pass a bill to ban ONLINE GAMBLING!!
The current Speaker of the House does not care about what the professionals say nor did she ask the Secret Service about security concerns before her political ploy to delay the State of the Union.
I will say it once again, "Any cause can survive without a god, no cause can survive without a satan." The President gives both parties a satan so they can continue to do nothing but divide our country and not do their jobs.
Sorry for the long comment, but this is just not difficult and I am extremely frustrated that few ever hold Congress, both parties, accountable for doing their job.
Term Limits Please!

Paula Flinn

You are forgetting that the President “owns” this one. He said so on National TV. There had been very little compromise in Congress way before Trump took office. This is Government by temper tantrum by a President who listens to right-wing TV commentators like Ms. Coulter.
The President should have a separate bill on opening up the government. It should not be connected to the vote for the wall. They should be separate votes becaus

Carlos Ponce

Paula posts, "You are forgetting that the President 'owns' this one."
Good. He's putting the safety of the country ahead of petty politics.
This is no temper tantrum.
BUILD THE WALL!!!!!!!!

George Croix

PF, 'owning' was the start...it's not a free pass for the other elected representation to sit on their ask me about its and P&M....except for the politicking angle.....
The opponents cheerfully spend more than 5.7 billion a MONTH on illegal aliens, so it's not an issue of money for them, unless they really ARE stupid.....
So, what's that leave as an issue......

Paula Flinn

They should be separate votes because they are separate issues.

Ron Woody

I agree that they are separate issues but that is the game that Congress plays with the American citizen. I want the issue solved. I want immigration reform with border security. Every one agrees that increased border security, including an increased/improved barrier is required. What evidence do you have that an ineffective Congress that only cares about their re-election is going to provide improved border security if the government is open - NONE!!!!
This is not about a temper tantrum, this is not about who is going to pay for the wall, this is not about an election promise, this is not about whether it is a concrete wall, steel slats or whether the barrier runs the entire border. This is about improved border security in which both parties have previously agreed and rarely funded. I want a solution and unfortunately because of the incompetent individuals in Congress, from both parties this is the only viable way to get to that solution.
I will repeat other facts - 38 years in Congress and McConnell and Schumer have passed all the appropriation bills THREE TIMES!!! Now you tell me they will protect my granddaughter (whose father is a Mexican citizen) if the government is opened.
NOT A CHANCE!!!!
The Speaker of the House has made it clear that she does not care what the experts state. She does not care about American citizens. She does not care about getting Appropriation Bills passed. So what does this "Master Legislator" care about? I will include the author "of the Long Game" in that comment also. These individuals care about their power and bank accounts and they (or others like them) will be doing the same thing long after President Trump is gone. We will still not have a solution.
I am thankful that we have at least one individual that in all honesty, obviously does not care whether he gets re-elected or not, because he would do things completely differently. He does however listen to the experts and believes this is part of the solution. I dare say no Congressman from either party has shown the same fortitude to protect all Americans.

Emile Pope

it's about a wall. donald has said it over and over again. He was offered money for border security but wouldn't take the deal because there was no money for a wall. And he has made it abundantly clear that he will not open the government unless there is a wall built regardless of who it hurts.

Ron Woody

Mr. Pope I respect your sentiments, but are we referring to any border barrier that every professional responsible for border security says is required to adequately provide that security. Will someone anyone explain to me how a barrier will ever be provided if the government magically opens? Congress will not do this and this will be an issue forever and ever and ever as it has been for decades.
Mr. Pope as an American who I am guessing believes in the sovereignty of the United States and protecting its citizens are you OK with Congress continuing to play the Americans as fools and do nothing but fund raise and divide the country?

Emile Pope

No they don’t. Simply making that up...

George Croix

But, Nancy said 'border security' would be 'mowing the grass'.....
This from the person 3rd in line to the Presidency.....
Better a stump.................

George Croix

Sooooooo predictable.................
[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Carlos Ponce

Paula says they're separate issues. Not really. Both deal with the border.

Carlos Ponce

If you feel stressed due to the partial government shutdown, take comfort in the words of this song:

If tomorrow all the things were gone I'd worked for all my life
And I had to start again with just my children and my wife
I'd thank my lucky stars to be livin' here today
'Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can't take that away

And I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me
And I'd gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God bless the USA

From the lakes of Minnesota, to the hills of Tennessee
Across the plains of Texas, from sea to shining sea
From Detroit down to Houston and New York to LA
Well, there's pride in every American heart
And it's time we stand and say

That I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me
And I'd gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God bless the USA

And I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me
And I'd gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God bless the USA

Thank you, Lee Greenwood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E

Bailey Jones

Thanks, Carlos, that's really helpful. Maybe you could sing it to the woman I heard interviewed this morning on NPR. After paying her rent and utilities she's now $400 overdrawn. She's an "essential" worker so she still has to work. But she can't afford to pay for daycare, so she has to call in sick. Call in sick too often and she loses her job. She's skipping meals to make sure she has food for her kids. She's thinking maybe she'll have to walk away from her lease and move in with her parents. Then, when all of this is done, start over again - get a new job, build her credit back up, find a new apartment. 100,000 of the 800,000 unpaid workers earn less than $50K/year and live paycheck to paycheck. Many are in crisis right now. But thanks for your support. It's very useful.

Ron Woody

Exceptional comment Ms. Jones. Thus the dilemma that decades of Congressional incompetence has created. Again, I refuse to put the blame on the newcomer. Regardless of his party or name!

Carlos Ponce

Bailey Jones, I don't think she wants too hear me sing. That's why I provided the youtube link.[beam]

Jarvis Buckley

Leonard my friend. You know they will be paid. No government shutdown has ever resulted in they workers not receiving back pay in full.
To indicate that they won't be paid puts you on the same level of socialist behavior as the rest of the never Trump crowd. Am I wrong Leonard?

Gary Scoggin

So how long would you work without a paycheck with the expectation that you'll be paid someday? A week? A month? Three months? A year?

Bailey Jones

Federal workers will be paid back. Those who can weather a few weeks without pay will do just fine. Those who can't will suffer - they will miss car payments, mortgage payments, day care payments, utility payments, medical insurance payments. I stopped by my favorite donut shop on NASA Parkway yesterday and asked about business. It's down. Way down. Dozens of small businesses around JSC depend on federal workers. People aren't buying donuts, or eating lunch, or having their cars serviced, or their clothes dry cleaned. None of these businesses will be reimbursed. A buddy runs an eye clinic, he's not getting Medicare payments and can't meet payroll. Another friend who is trying to start a new business can't get his SBA loan. My daughter needs her tax refund but the IRS isn't sending her the info she needs. These are all real people experiencing real pain.

Bailey Jones

"Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible." - Donald J Trump, 11:01 AM - 8 Nov 2013

Gary Scoggin

'He needs a sign on his desk, " The buck stops THERE."

Carlos Ponce

Why does he need such a sign, Gary Scoggin? He accepts responsibility. I'm glad he is. Someone has to put the safety of Americans on the forefront.

George Croix

He can borrow ex-Pres. Obama's.....[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Gary Scoggin

Obama’s said “The buck stops with Bush.” It’s probably going in his Presidential Library.

George Croix

Gary, when you're right, you're right.....[cool]

Ron Woody

Is it not just as much Leadership to demand that Congress do their job to protect the American people, especially since they have voted for funding previously. Many may say that leadership is doing what is right regardless of the pain and suffering involved, personal or otherwise.
There were many Loyalists or Tories that fought on the side of the British and it meant that their lives would be easier and uninterrupted. It is often difficult to do the right thing. Something that Congress has failed to realize for decades. It is something that most Americans recognize, especially those whose family has served in the military and paid the ultimate price.

Carlos Ponce

"Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible." - Donald J Trump, 11:01 AM - 8 Nov 2013
He must have been thinking about Nancy Pelosi.

Paul Hyatt

Typical of the MSM.... Whine and moan about something that they have helped promote for years. The leftist democrats and the MSM has been pushing for open borders for over 20 years and they will fight to the death to continue this insanity until this nation is destroyed.... I do wonder why GCDN has walls and doors with locks on their place of business and their employees homes. Are they immoral and racist and they claim that Pres. Trump is? Or is it that they are trying to protect what is theirs and protect their families? If that is the case then why are they so stupid that they can not see that We The People want our nation secured in the same fashion.... The writer of this insanity thinks he knows what he is talking about but in the end foolishness comes pouring forth from his pen and his lips....

Gary Scoggin

Where in Leonard's essay did he advocate for open borders? He was pointing out the hardships on many people out of work due to the shutdown. Surely you're not such a snowflake that you get bent out of shape when someone tells a part of the story that's inconvenient for you?

George Croix

That job is already taken, Gary....[beam][beam]
By the usual suspect....

Jarvis Buckley

I really can't believe the GDN allows folks with opposing views to call fellow commentor's ignorant & stupid , or snowflakes. Really Leonard these uneducated comments shouldn't be allowed in my opinion. I'll end with my favorite saying. I'd rather be called a snowflake , than Jeff Flake.

Ron Woody

Mr. Buckley, again thanks for making me chuckle.
I have sent emails to Mr. Woolsey with concerns about the Letters to the Editor that are published with misinformation but not about the comments. I take the comments for what they are. Decent social discourse. I am thankful that names are listed. Anonymous statements are the worse.

I will also state the reason I like reading Mr. Woolsey's columns is whether I agree or not I believe he is sincere in his words. I have only been reading GDN for a year and I enjoy the local information and discourse it provides in my new home.

Jim Forsythe

Jarvis
"Surely you're not such a snowflake" is not the same as calling someone a snowflake.
Are you upset about people being called leftist democrats and having socialist behavior ? If not, why not.

margo holst

The definition of "snowflake" is so muddled I don't think anyone takes it with the perhaps the writer intent. Time for it to melt, DJ Kava CB/Beaumont.

Carlos Ponce

" leftist democrats" and "socialist" A bit redundant but accurate.

Gary Scoggin

Are you asking Leonard to screen and censor all comments or just the ones you don’t agree with? It wasn’t clear from your statement.

George Croix

NO.
No screening and censoring of contributors.
But, it de facto exists in editorializing when there's nobody of opposing views to provide even a smidgen of balance, so............

Jim Forsythe

A question to ask is what did the 800,000 government worker and 4,000,000 contractors do to deserve this.

The shutdown has just started and some family's are about to default on a lot of loans. The longer this goes on the bigger the hit to their credit rating. Because of the shutdown it will cost them extra money for years to come because of a lot of what we do is based on credit rating. It may also make it that they can not quality for loans because of bad credit rating.
If they never go back to work because the issue is never settled, they will never see a penny of the money they are owed.
Remember the President said, this could last a year or more.

With the President calling back more worker without pay, he just made it where if they had found work to hold them over, they now most likely will have to quite the paying job and go back to one that will not help them NOW .
Is that the plan, call them all back, never compromise on the wall, and not have to pay the workers?

Ron Woody

The plan is to get adequate border protection that all the professionals have stated includes a border barrier of differing types. Mr. Forsythe why has this not been done before? It has been an issue for decades. Why are we blaming the one person that is willing to sacrifice his re-election to fix the problem?
How do you propose the problem get fixed if it just keeps getting kicked down the road?
No has yet made a case that Congress will fix the problem if government is reopened because they won't.
I say let's pass legislation that no one in Congress gets paid, until they approve all the appropriation bills annually, instead of the tricks they continually play to keep government open and their fundraising going.

Jim Forsythe

Ron, how did I blame the President in the above post?
If the President is willing to sacrifice his re-election to fix the problem (WALL), it must mean that more people are against the WALL, than for it. Otherwise he would not be concerned.
The Rasmussen Reports is the Presidents favorite poll, as he has quoted them many times.
07/31/17 "A majority of likely voters in a new poll doesn't think the U.S. should build a wall along the country's southern border. The conservative-leaning Rasmussen Reports poll finds that 37 percent of likely voters said the U.S. should construct a border wall in an effort to curb illegal immigration. But 56 percent of respondents disagree."
All the professionals never agree on anything and the WALL is no exception.
Below is the condensed version of what I think needs to be done. If you want anything expanded, please say so.
As you and I do not agree on the wall, these are the other things that need to be done.
The path requires immediate, near-, and longer-term actions that should begin with changes to the U.S. asylum system, which is, indeed, in crisis in the face of growing backlogs of cases that take years to complete. Get rid of back log of asylum seekers by processing them in a timely manor. Change laws if necessary.
Rework the visa system as we have too many types . There are about 185 different types of visas. The majority of the immigration problem (70%) is from visa overstays.
Take a close look at are immigration laws, and get rid of ones that are no longer needed. Write new laws that make sense.
Increase the use of E-verify. Require it for all employees and employers. Use it for other facades of our lives.
E-verify is the key to making sure most do not over stay visas.
These are just a few of the things that need to change.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, E-verify is good but not foolproof.

Carlos Ponce

Jim, I don't believe in polls but since you mention Rasmussen how about one from 2019 and not 2017?
Monday, January 14, 2019
Most voters continue to favor strongly controlled borders and reject House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s charge that it is immoral for the United States to build a border wall.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 53% of Likely U.S. Voters think it is better for the United States to tightly control who comes into the country. Thirty-nine percent (39%) disagree and say it is better to open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/january_2019/voters_want_strong_borders_say_wall_is_not_immoral
Friday, January 11, 2019
In the midst of a government shutdown over disagreements about building a border wall, two-out-of-three voters still think illegal immigration is a serious issue, but nearly half of voters think the government isn’t working hard enough to stop it.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters think the government is doing too little to stop illegal immigration, up five points from 43% who felt the same way in August. Twenty-eight percent (28%) believe the government is doing too much to stop illegal immigration, down from 34%, while 17% think the government’s level of action is about right.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/immigration_update_jan11

Jim Forsythe

If you do not believe in polls, why post one?

Jim Forsythe

"Jim, E-verify is good but not foolproof." If used correctly, it is a very good way of reducing the number of immigrates that are not suppose to be here. At this time, we are not using it to it's full Potential.

Carlos Ponce

There are people skilled at helping the illegal obtain the documentation necessary. It will cost money.
Look at the form. They know how to circumvent the system.
file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/i-9-paper-version-1.pdf

Gary Scoggin

Given the news that Donald Trump had Michael Cohen hire someone to manipulate polls in his favor, it’s probably wise not to trust them.

Jim Forsythe

Carlos , that's a link to a Temp folder and is not the one anyone will use . The system we have now is voluntary and not required except for government jobs. What we are doing now is not all that's needed. We must require the use if it for all jobs, and put teeth in enforcement including any illegally obtaining documentation, which should be automatic jail time. What we are using now is just a start.
Form I-9 is used for verifying the identity and employment authorization of individuals hired for employment in the United States.
To more easily complete Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification, you can download the PDF directly to your computer.
ABOUT E-VERIFY
E-Verify is a web-based system that allows enrolled employers to confirm the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify employers verify the identity and employment eligibility of newly hired employees by electronically matching information provided by employees on the Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification, against records available to the Social Security Administration (SSA) and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

Carlos Ponce

Gary Scoggin, do you honestly believe Michael Cohen?

Carlos Ponce

"Carlos , that's a link to a Temp folder and is not the one anyone will use ."
Instructions are to open the file, print it and fill it. Somebody may use it.

Carlos Ponce

"If you do not believe in polls, why post one?"
Because apparently Jim Forsythe believes in polls - even old ones. The numbers are skewed to the Left. One must add/subtract to find reality.

Gary Scoggin

Carlos, I believe Michael Cohen about as much as I di Donald Trump. The difference now is that Cohen’s statements are being corroborated and he’s looking at more jail time if he lies.

Carlos Ponce

Cohen is not a reliable witness.

George Croix

Heck, Gary....Cohen didn't get elected, either, so why not excuse him because of that?[beam]
Hillary's felonies and espionage were corroborated yet she got a pass from ther FBI and the Justice Dept. for doing several orders of magnitude more wrong/illegal that Cohen.....
So, why not let Cohen off the hook....?
Simple......Trump Derangement Syndrome....imo.....[wink][whistling]

Gary Scoggin

I just checked again and Hillary lost. If she'd won, I imagine we'd be seeing special prosecutors and all sorts of stuff, just like we are with Trump. If the FBI is so inclined to do that fine. But her loss puts a limit to the damage she can do with her crooked behavior. That doesn't excuse it btw. I haven't drunken the Trump Kool Aid so I still believe in the integrity of the FBI. That makes me a minority among the correspondents in this forum, I realize.

Crooked behavior by the President has severe ramifications for the country. We need to know how extensive Russian interference in our political system is and what role the President played, if any, intentionally or unintentionally, in that interference. I hear all the time, that the Russians have been doing this for years and all of that -- but never have they tried to interfere at the scale and level of sophistication that happened in 2016. This is a national security issue.

My, we've strayed a long way from the impact on the shutdown on Federal employees, haven't we.

George Croix

No.
We're still talking about people treated differently for the same things...........[beam]

George Croix

Buzzfeed.
The folks who did such a good job with the phony 'dossier'.....
Yep.
There's a credible source.............

Carlos Ponce

Gary Scoggin posts: "Given the news that Donald Trump had Michael Cohen hire someone to manipulate polls in his favor, it’s probably wise not to trust them."
From Peter Carr, Spokesman for Special Counsel Mueller:
"Buzzfeed's description of specific statements to the Special Counsel's Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen's Congressional testimony are not accurate."

Gary Scoggin

The story that the Mueller team spoke to was the one about Trump allegedly telling Cohen to lie to Congress, not this one. Try to keep up.

Carlos Ponce

There's more to it than that. Please keep up, Gary Scoggin. And consider the sources of that "bombshell" that bombed. Jason Lepold, a former Los Angeles Times, Dow Jones, and Vice News reporter who has been at BuzzFeed since 2017, was involved in several major scandals that called into question the veracity of his reporting....
In 2002, Salon.com removed a story Leopold had written as a freelancer for the site. Salon said that as it investigated a piece he wrote about Enron, including an allegation of plagiarism against him, Leopold “distributed an account of events” that was “riddled with inaccuracies and misrepresentations.” Ultimately Salon said it “reluctantly had to conclude” Leopold’s piece carried “an instance of plagiarism,” despite his strong denials.
https://kbzk.com/cnn-business-consumer/2019/01/18/reporter-with-checkered-past-comes-back-with-trump-tower-moscow-bombshells-for-buzzfeed/

George Croix

Jim, I recall 93 days and 125 days when I didn't do anything to deserve being forced to work jobs I did not hire in for and was 'trained' to do so only to a standard that would guarantee I might know enough to not get killed or cause great damage, and with NO days off during the 93 time and ONE day off during the 125 one, and the attendant problems with that....no, not the same exactly, but forced is forced.....
Your post is written AFTER papers already signed to provide full back pay, so speculation otherwise is not appropriate, even if fun and convenient....[beam][beam][beam]......no thanks for that to the Other Side, busy vacationing in Hawaii and Puerto Rico.....and going to the circus on CNN......

Jim Forsythe

George you may have been forced, but you received a paycheck. I know what it is like to go for a extended time without a paycheck and the number of years it takes to recover from it. Back pay does not pay the bills now.
The government employees that are required to work are not eligible to receive unemployment. The ones not forced to work may be able to get unemployment but not a job, if they follow the law.
The office that would rule on the following is part of the shutdown.
"The federal law the government employees might be running afoul of is part of the United States Code that deals with the salaries paid to government officials and employees, under a section called "Bribery, Graft and Conflicts of Interest." In a nutshell, it says federal employees aren't supposed to supplement their salaries with outside income. If they do, the penalties could be steep."
"Punishment could be up to five years in prison, the law states. Employees also could be fined up to $50,000 for each violation or the amount of the compensation they received, which ever amount is"
As far as Hawaii and Puerto Rico. In a tweet Sunday, Jeanine Pirro took back the claim without apologizing, writing: “During my exclusive interview with Pres Trump I said Speaker Pelosi was in Puerto Rico with a bunch of her Democrat colleagues. I based that on numerous reports that turned out to be wrong. The Speaker’s office says she has been in DC all weekend and I take them at their word.”
The 30 or so Democrats who went to Puerto Rico were not there to “celebrate” anything, however. They were there to focus on recovery from Hurricane Maria, which hit the island in September 2017 as a Category 4 storm, inflicted $90 billion in damage on the island, and killed 2,975 people, according to the Puerto Rican government.
As for being in Hawaii , she was a phone call away if Trump wanted to get hold of her. It does not take that long to get back to DC if she was needed. She did not leave the USA.


George Croix

Jim, that phone call away works BOTH ways............

George Croix

MILLIONS upon millions of our fellow citizens were out of work for years and on food stamps and unemployment and lost things, and the Great American Middle Class went to Second Class behind Canada thanks to productivity and economic strangling policies and regulations and leading from one's behind. For the first time ever people polled said they expected their children to be worse off than themselves. And the usual suspects continued their worship at the alter of 'The New Normal' when the then President told us all to get used to it, because it would take a 'magic wand' to get better......
So, NOW....
Keep 'resisting'.....it works great......

Emile Pope

Who forced you?

George Croix

Try to find that neighborhood 6 year old and ask them to explain this, too, to you....

George Croix

The subject was forced, Jim.
And, for Pope, I was forced by my employer, IF I wanted to keep my job. I could have quit.
The exact same situation of 'force' as the current government workers face. They CAN quit....
Of course, most capable of understanding can see the difference between a discussion of associated similarities, and with exact equals......most......

Emile Pope

Your employer forced you out of your job? So you were fired?

Emile Pope

No answer? Were you fired? Laid off? Why were you not working? Those government employees didn’t walk off the job so quit trying to compare them to you.

George Croix

I SAID they could QUIT if they CHOOSE. They are not being held in servitude.
Quit trying to create your own personal realities.....

Jarvis Buckley

Gosh the stock market went up again
today!!

Jim Forsythe

At this time in their terms stock was, Obama up 48.6% Trump up 21.9.% Bill Clinton up 16.1% George W. Bush down 26%
At this early date in the Presidency, the stock market is not a good indicator. Bill Clinton had a gain of 228.8% after 8 years, which may never be matched. Does this gain tell anything about how good a President he was?
For Trump to match this %, the market would have to reach the 40,000 range at the end of his term, if he is reelected..

Carlos Ponce

"Does this gain tell anything about how good a President he was?"
Presidents are usually not judged by the movements of the stock market.Bill is judged for not keeping his pants up in the Oval Office.

Jim Forsythe

So stocks means nothing on how a President is doing. All this talk about the stock market and Trump means nothing.
"Bill is judged for not keeping his pants up in the Oval Office." He is not the only one.

Carlos Ponce

"He is not the only one." I heard JFK did not use the Oval Office for his trysts. He allegedly used the White House swimming pool.

Gary Scoggin

“Presidents are usually not judged by the movements of the stock market.” They all seem to take credit when stocks are moving up.

George Croix

That's a fact, Gary, and they blame the Other Guy when they go down...or, they used to......[wink]

George Croix

Bill was smart enough to sign of on the Republican economic plan.....
Ya gotta be smart to pull the wool over so many eyes for decades, and alley cat around down the hall from the wife.....

Gary Scoggin

Bill was smart enough to let Greenspan do his thing and lucky enough to ride the wave of the tech revolution.

George Croix

That, TOO........
Of course, he was also 'preoccupied' with other, uh, distractions from the grind of governing....[beam][beam][beam][whistling][innocent]

George Croix

ps:
I bet 'ol Bill NOW he wishes he'd gotten bib Laden when given the chance, instead of just an intern....[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Emile Pope

So. Ow donald says that if he’s given everything he wants he’ll reopen the government and offer a temporary reprieve to the people he’s been trying to throw out since day one. And we know how good he is about keeping his word. Just ask his two ex-wives...

George Croix

So, Pope, you 'evolved' to caring about 'keeping one's word' AFTER the Nobel Prize Winner left office, huh?
Well, better late than never....
[beam][beam]
I suppose followers of the laureate can't be expected to know anything about negotiating....[rolleyes]

Emile Pope

Nothing that you say about President Obama will change what a despicable person donald is....

Carlos Ponce

Deplorable, despicable, from Hillary Pope.

George Croix

I'm not trying to change either Pres. Trump or your opinion of him, Pope...it's your right to think what you want. If you'd ever pay attention you'd know I don't personally like the guy at all.
I simply happen to consider ex-President Obama to be, so far, several notches more lowdown than Trump. So far, Pres. Trump hasn't gotten 4 Americans killed then lied about it, repeatedly, on national TV......
We'll see if my opinion changes in the next 6 years.......not much chance yours will, any more than mine ever change will of the recently departed from office guy.....
Difference?

Emile Pope

4 Americans? Are you serious? How many victims of mass shootings do you ignore? And donald lies all the time. Pathological liar in chief...

George Croix

Are YOU really that out of it, Pope.? Naaahhh...just grasping at straws in the face of the hay bale of reality....
But, Since you want apples in an orange bag, OK....It's ALSO true that Barack knowingly lied to blame 'the video' multiple times for the 4 dead Americans. Gotta not 'interfere with the 2012 election'.....
JUST as he lied and blamed and sought more restrictions against honest gun owners for mass shootings...heck, he even blamed the POLICE for the death of a strong arm punk in Ferguson. BUT, then invited the vile BLM trash born of that series of lies to the WH for a visit.
Lying about DEAD, especially when complicit in some of it, and especially when palling it up with people CALLING for 'dead cops now' seems a little bit worse than claiming to have had the biggest inauguration crowd.....on this planet, anyway....
Maybe that's what the Nobel was really for...that 'might do something someday' thingy....."Best Base BSer".....[beam][beam]

We'll see in 6 more years whether Pres. Trump sinks low enough that someone else starting a political career in a known, convicted domestic terrorists' living room seems like a high point...[lol][whistling][rolleyes]

Emile Pope

Apparently Walmart restocked...

George Croix

I notice you can't refute, so you regurgitate, Pope. Nothing new there.
[beam]
Well, that's OK...a lot of animal species throw up when faced with the reality circumstances dangerous to them, and can't escape.
[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

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