In 2006, Congress passed the Secure Fence Act, which mandated the construction of multilayer pedestrian fencing along about 600 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border.

It passed with big, bipartisan majorities: 283 votes in the House and 80 in the Senate. Some top Democrats who are still in the Senate today supported the fence: Charles Schumer, Dianne Feinstein, Ron Wyden, Debbie Stabenow and Sherrod Brown.

Just the next year, Congress made clear it didn’t really mean what it said. The new law was amended to make fence building optional.

In 2013, Congress got back into the fence game. The comprehensive immigration reform bill included something called the “Southern Border Fencing Strategy.” It called for 700 miles of at least single-layer pedestrian fencing along the border. It wasn’t a standalone measure; the fence was to be part of a broader package of border security measures, alongside provisions that would create a process by which the nation’s 11 million illegal immigrants would ultimately gain a path to citizenship.

With citizenship in the deal, Democrats were fully on board for a border barrier. The bill passed with unanimous Democratic support in the Senate.

In the House, the Republican leadership blocked the bill from coming to a vote.

The bill would have given a provisional legal status to illegal immigrants who did not have criminal records. But the border security measures, including the fence, had to be funded and built first.

Today, Democrats will not even support a relatively small amount of money, $5 billion, to build a portion of the barrier that Trump wants. A possible deal — wall funding in exchange for DACA legalization — fell through earlier this year, in part, because Trump added new demands to the wall proposal, but also because a federal judge in California stopped the president’s move to rescind DACA.

The court said a president cannot use executive action to undo an executive action of a previous president. The ruling was later backed up by other courts, and it gave Democrats assurance they might get what they want from the courts without having to give away anything in a deal with Trump.

And now the Democratic position appears to have hardened further still. Nancy Pelosi recently called a border wall “immoral.” How could her party make any deal to support, even a little bit, something her colleagues believe is immoral?

It is unclear whether Pelosi thinks all the barriers currently in place on the U.S.-Mexico border are immoral, but it seems clear that she would never support any new ones.

The U.S.-Mexico border is nearly 2,000 miles long. Significant parts of it are so rugged that barriers are simply unnecessary. According to the Border Patrol, there are now 354 miles of single fence along the border. There are 37 miles of double-deep fence and 14 miles of three-deep fencing, for a total of 405 miles of pedestrian fencing. In addition, there are 300 miles of vehicle fencing, which keeps cars and trucks from crossing the border but allows people to move freely.

The 2013 bill would have replaced that with 700 miles of pedestrian fencing, some of it multilayered. Now, amid a partial government shutdown, Trump, despite his years of talk about a “wall,” would very likely take such a deal. The question is whether there are any circumstances under which Democrats would ever agree to what they once supported.

Byron York is a nationally syndicated columnist.

(117) comments

Emile Pope

Trump said that Mexico would pay for the wall. Now he threatens to shut down the government unless the American taxpayers pay for it. His statement that the wall will be paid for by trade agreements that haven’t been approved and will only benefit individuals has been exposed as a complete lie. The writer fails to include these facts in his attempt to justify the actions of an intolerant bully.

Carlos Ponce

Mexico will pay for the wall. Several forum users have explained how this will happen. President Trump has explained how this will happen. Emile refuses to accept it. Must be beyond him.
The reason why Democrats refuse to fund wall/fence/barrier funding is that they want another "Read my lips" moment. They want to hang this promise as unfulfilled for the 2020 campaign. "Ha, ha, ha! He promised a wall and couldn't deliver! Ha, ha, ha!"
So far, President Trump has kept most of his campaign promises: Promises made, promises kept. Even with construction going on some Liberal forum users ask "How much of it is NEW! How much of it is NEW!" Does it matter if it is a replacement? If what is there isn't working and its replacement meets border patrol standards then that's good.
What Byron York points out in his column is the hypocrisy of the Left. Hillary Clinton voted for a barrier. Barack Obama voted for a barrier, Chuck Shumer voted for a barrier, etc. What's different now is that Trump is president. Democrats are putting their HATRED of Trump above national interests.
Please don't quote a worthless skewed poll that says Americans don't want a wall. Polls are often wrong. Just ask Hillary Clinton.
A wall is NOT immoral. It protects us from drug traffickers, sex traffickers, child traffickers. There are a lot of OTMs (Other than Mexicans) crossing illegally. While the majority are from Central America, some are from the Middle East with terrorist connections.
Will a wall stop all the "bad hombres"? No. But it will free up agents to go after visa overstays and others that are already here.
BUILD THE WALL!
I tried emailing Hillary Clinton but she won't accept messages from outside her Congressional District. You have to enter your zip + 4 digits to send her a message.

Emile Pope

Donald’s explanation has been dismissed as garbage. It’s as stupid as saying that the tax cuts will pay for the wall. Promises made, blame everyone else when you fail. How’s his healthcare plan coming? Stock market? Deficit? His promise to be too busy to golf? None of the people you mentioned voted for a wall and apparently the public doesn’t want it either according to the last election. Repeating Donald’s lies about terrorists and traffickers doesn’t make it true...

Carlos Ponce

"Donald’s explanation has been dismissed as garbage." Yes, but only by Emile.
Healthcare plan was stopped by one man. But he's gone now. RIP
"Stock market?" When Barack Oblamer left office the Dow Jones was at 19,827. Yesterday the Dow Jones closed at 23,433.16. That means the Dow Jones average is UP over 3600 points since Trump took office.
Doctor wants him to be physically active and so he golfs. Doctor's orders.
Wall construction was not on my ballot nor anyone else's ballot in this country so your claim is WRONG. You are making things up, Emile.
And it's not Donald Trump's claims about terrorists and traffickers. That information comes from the Department of Homeland security. The President repeated it because most news agencies refuse to.

Gary Miller

Build the wall but keep the partial shutdown of government. 15 days and counting the stock market is up 13 of 15 days. Up nearly 2,000 pts. 700,000 Democrats aren't being paid. Some are signing up for unemployment while others are looking for private sector jobs. Not having the wall costs the US $250,000,000.00 a year. $25 billion for the wall would be an excelant investment.

Paul Hyatt

What I would like to know from the wall or Trump haters is this, if you hate having a wall so much to secure our borders, why do you lock your home and car? Why is Puglosi allowed to have a wall around her home to secure it and We The People are not allowed to have a secure border wall around our home which is America? If you all who hate Trump so much and love the illegals so much why are you all NOT bringing them into your homes? You all speak out of both sides of your mouth and it is plain for all to see except for those of you who are blind, and that includes the media in this nation....

Emile Pope

My lock isn't a 15 foot concrete wall so your comparison is laughable. Pelosi, if she has a wall around her house, paid for it with her own money. If you want the wall, you and your fellow travelers pay for it out of your own pocket. Or there's Mexico...

Carlos Ponce

Emile, that wall/fence/barrier will protect you too!
"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child". William Shakespeare King Lear
And you haven't kept up with the truth. The border patrol and President Trump is asking for a STEEL barrier so you can see the other side, not concrete. When the prototypes were being made Trump said being able to see the other side was a plus.
"So, we need a form of fence or window. I said why you need that—makes so much sense? They said because we have to see who’s on the other side. If you have a wall this thick and it’s solid concrete from ground to 32 feet high which is a high wall, much higher than people planned. You go 32 feet up and you don’t know who’s over here. You’re here, you’ve got the wall and there’s some other people here." Jan. 14, 2018
https://www.wsj.com/articles/transcript-of-donald-trump-interview-with-the-wall-street-journal-1515715481

Bailey Jones

Pelosi - you can't even see through your hate enough to spell her name correctly - doesn't have a wall around her house.She lives in a 3 story red brick home on a corner, with nothing but a sidewalk for protection. I assume the rest of your argument is based on equally specious facts.

Carlos Ponce

Nancy Pelosi owns more than one house. You must be writing about her San Francisco house. Now do a web search on her Napa Valley House. It has walls.

Bailey Jones

Yes, her Napa Valley estate does have a wall around portions of it. It's 3-4 feet tall. I think they call that "decorative". Pics here - http://www.theamericanmirror.com/photos-nancy-pelosi-attacks-immoral-trump-wall-living-behind-wall/

Carlos Ponce

Additional: Nancy Pelosi is paying on 6 mortgages. Her Zinfandel Lane estate in Napa Valley is valued between 5 and 25 million. It lies 65 miles north of her Congressional District. There are vineyards on that estate. She maintains the San Francisco house to list it as her "residence" to run for California's 12th Congressional District.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-richest-nancy-pelosi-vineyard-story.html

Bailey Jones

Yep.. She and her husband have made a small fortune in real estate. That seems to be all the rage among politicians these days.

Carlos Ponce

Did you check the wall at her Napa Valley estate?

Bailey Jones

Democrats don't want to fund Trump's wall because, frankly, no one on the left likes Trump. But there are also more substantive issues. Trump's approach is a mighty wall, and presumably detention camps to hold anyone who dares to breach it. That satisfies the conservative desire for order and punishment, but does nothing to address the causes of the problem. What Democrats want is a compassionate and humane response by the richest country in the world to a refugee crisis that America has had a large part in creating in Central and South America. (Net border crossings by Mexicans are actually negative these days.) Dems would like to see potential immigrants and asylum seekers be greeted at the border, giving food, water and medical attention if required, have their applications quickly processed and their cases adjudicated, and in the mean time, held with family, friends, or any of the thousands of charitable organizations that are open to holding them while they wait. Democrats want a generous work program were migrant workers can come to the US and provide the labor that American agriculture other industries need, and then return to their families - passing freely back and forth across the border, as they used to. Democrats want a path to citizenship for the DACA kids - those who have proved, by their good conduct and productivity, that they are good candidates for citizenship. And Democrats want the US to do something about the lawlessness and chaos in Central America, in countries where we have sponsored civil wars, propped up cruel and corrupt dictators, and pumped full of gangs and drug money. In other words, Trump wants a wall, Democrats want a solution. When Trump proposes solutions, he'll get his wall.

Carlos Ponce

" What Democrats want is a compassionate and humane response by the richest country in the world to a refugee crisis that America has had a large part in creating in Central and South America."
In other words Democrats want OPEN BORDERS. Judge Holbrook was right!

Bailey Jones

lol. Those are other words indeed, Carlos.

Gary Miller

Bailey? If we passed a law that illegal migrants could "never" vote would Democrats still want open borders?

Paul Hyatt

Detention camps started with Obama just like the separation of children started with him. When is the left ever going to come to grips with that reality. Where were you all during that time?

Ray Taft

Democrats now oppose The Wall because they want to stop President Trump from getting it done. It’s all political and nothing else. Every reason opposing The Wall is a lame excuse to stop The Wall from getting built.

Trump intends to keep his promises and that is what he has been doing. Trump has exposed Washington as a pack of do-nothing crooks and liars. Trump is in fact Making America Great Again for average Americans, and we know it. Trump has done many things in his first two years that Democrats and RINOs claimed could not be done. To stop Trump, they feel they must stop The Wall from being built. Democrats are hurting themselves by flip-flopping positions just to oppose Trump.

Opposing The Wall is all about politics. Period.

Paula Flinn

In 2013, citizenship for illegal immigrants who hadn’t committed a crime and DACA kids and young adults was in the bill. Senate Democrats backed it and it passed the Senate. The House Republican Leadership refused to bring the bill forward. I guess they didn’t want to give President Obama the victory on such important legislation. Playing politics? The Republicans did it then. Hypocrites now.

Carlos Ponce

I believe Paula is referring to the " Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013" AKA the Gang of 8 Bill, a bill which:
provided permanent residence for illegal aliens and a path to citizenship for illegal aliens. Not good.
The Republican Gang of 8 members were John McCain, Jeff Flake, Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham.

Carlos Ponce

And Obama's lack of a victory dance was not the reason for letting the bill die. It was a bad bill. Reagan granted amnesty (Simpson-Mazzoli Act) on a Democrat promise on other legislation to control the border. Democrats never fulfilled their part of the deal.

Bailey Jones

And what is "Build The Wall" except a silly political tag line that Trump uses to rally his supporters? (Trump: And who's going to pay for it? Crowd: Mexico!!!) If Trump had campaigned on the idea of a comprehensive package of border security, immigration reform and foreign policy to address the root cause of this refugee crisis, no one would be arguing. Trump has a golden opportunity to actually fix immigration - something that hasn't been done in decades, something that would truly make him a historically great president. But that kind of big thinking seems to be beyond the capability of Trump and his party. Or maybe it just doesn't fit with his anti-immigrant anti-refugee rhetoric

Carlos Ponce

"And what is "Build The Wall" except a silly political tag line..."
No, its a call for Border Security that the on the ground agents are calling for. Why are Democrats ignoring them? Trump didn't dream it up. He asked Border Patrol (CBP) and ICE agents what was needed to protect the border. Among other things they asked Trump to BUILD THE WALL! Republicans listen to the men and women who actually protect our borders. Democrats go[tongue].

Bailey Jones

I'd be interested in knowing when Trump asked Border Patrol (CBP) and ICE agents what was needed to protect the border. Because I remember him stating the very day he declared his candidacy (June 16, 2015), "I will build a great wall ― and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me ―and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words."

Carlos Ponce

"Or maybe it just doesn't fit with his anti-immigrant anti-refugee rhetoric."
Anti-immigrant? Anti-refugee? His wife is an immigrant. He is against ILLEGAL immigration and for LEGAL immigration. And there are SPECIFIC reasons one must give to claim refugee status. If you have to cross the border ILLEGALLY then chances are you DO NOT qualify. Trump is for LEGAL, properly VETTED immigration. And refugees who qualify under American law are welcome.
Bailey Jones, please learn something before you post. Your post is full of inaccuracies.

Bailey Jones

The world is experiencing the greatest refugee crisis since WW2, Out of 68,000,000 people displaced by war, violence and persecution, America has taken in a paltry 22,000, the smallest number by far in the past 50 years. This is Trump policy. So far, Trump has banned nationals of eight countries from entering the United States, reduced refugee admissions to the lowest level since the resettlement program was created in 1980, cancelled the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, and ended the designation of Temporary Protected Status for nationals of Haiti, Nicaragua and Sudan. That doesn't sound like a pro-immigrant, pro-refugee program to me. But maybe I'm wrong. Just point me to Trump's immigration reform legislation and I'll reconsider my position. I certainly want to be accurate.

Carlos Ponce

Follow the RULE OF LAW. Anyone can claim refugee status but under the law are they legally entitled? A few are, most are not.

Jarvis Buckley

Sometimes I intentionally make remarks , that are not complimentary to the progressive liberal democrats.
I do that out of frustration for the remarks made by the half dozen or so Trump Haters that troll GDN's articles & degrade our President.
The facts are our president has done more positive things for all the citizens of our Country than the last 3
Presidents combined & he's only been in office a little less than two years. My New Years resolution is to try to evaluate each comment that appears on these forums & try to see their point of view. I also plant to use a more diplomatic approach in my responses.

Emile Pope

More positive things than the last three combined? If you believe that then an evaluation is definitely needed...

Bailey Jones

[thumbup]

Randy Chapman

Can we just take a page from the Democratic playbook and eliminate presidential term limits and simply crown Trump king as the "progressives" wanted to do with Obama?

George Croix

Deja vu all over again.
More two-faced opposition to reality BS from all points of the political spectrum.

An 800 BILLION dollar 'stimulus' disappeared with almost NO accountability for where it went, except a rather lame sounding 'shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought'.
Little to no specific records of anything done with it that would save USA federal taxpayers yet more money down the road.
That same amount would most likely allow building a wall encircling the entire USA, not just around the southern border.
Just the one down south WOULD save USA federal taxpayers hundreds of billions - period - from not paying for 'free stuff' for so many illegal aliens.
SO, the opposition isn't about money, unless some 1st grader is arguing it, as what's been asked for wall use in this budget is a total budget rounding error...
It's ALL politics.
BOTH political sides have detractors of actual useful border security. The 'come on in and get amnesty and a voter registration card' is the biggest bunch, with the c'mon in and work labor jobs so we can pay you less than we'd pay citizens' right behind them.
This last bunch, the 'conservatives', in name only, is why, as of today, we have no wall funded right now after 2 years, having caved to the right wing DC status quo folks who only run on the ticket, but don't believe in it. Yes, the Senate supposed to be is needed to pass it all, and Chuck has had his finger up his year for two solid years opposing the SAME things he himself advocated for just a few short years ago. His underlings go along to get along. BUT the Majority, McConnell's folks, COULD have simply taken a note from the Left's playbook and lowered the threshold to vote to a simple majority, and that would have been that, so they equally suck when it comes to border invasion limitation.
Soon, the blame swaps to the other folks.
All a game.
As long as they, both sides, can jerk the base(s) around with silly and even stupid back-and-forth over who-said-what, who'll-do-what, as if the same commonalities of everyday life for each of us are somehow suspended for this subject, then just more can kicking down the road.
Here's my New Years wish.
A fervent one.
I wish for the wall opposition members of BOTH Parties....BOTH....that whatever negative financial, physical, and criminal effects of this invasion of America fall right on their heads worst of all.
My personal response to the 'if those guys want it, then let them pay for it' bunch.
Well, if you guys don't want it, fine, so here's hoping you are the ones who suffer most for lack of it.
Too late for the Kate Steinle family for that, as but one case..............
Better late than never....

IMO, as always....

Emile Pope

The right could have followed the Left’s playbook and elected a competent leader to represent themselves and this country instead of selecting a corrupt, amoral, narrow-minded bully as their representative. Did I fail to mention is incapable of telling the truth? If only...

Carlos Ponce

"followed the Left’s playbook......" Obama sure had you fooled![beam]

Emile Pope

And now the government’s shut down...just like Donald’s casinos, university, airlines, magazines, vodka, and steaks...

Carlos Ponce

Remember the 2013 government shutdown? That one lasted 16 days.

Emile Pope

donald doesn’t have a habit of reopening things...when’s his foundation scheduled to restart?

Emile Pope

Did the New Jersey Generals win their division this year?

Carlos Ponce

Poor Emile! You're jumping the fake shark in this forum!

George Croix

Pope, I must admit, your guy DID get a Nobel Prize, so richly deserved, and history making. The only one, I believe, ever awarded for what great thing somebody might someday accomplish, rather than after they already did so.
I hear Obama's been asked by the Nobel Committee to return it...unused...and the cash award, too...with interest.....
Might just be a rumor, though.....[whistling]

George Croix

ps:
Enough of the Right DID follow the Left's playbook on the wall...they sat on their B-hinds talking out of both sides of their mouths for 2 years.
Shame on them...too.....
I'll make a note that on 1/5/19 you got one right.........partially.......[beam][wink][rolleyes][whistling]

Paul Hyatt

Obama was competent? Hillary was competent? Are you serious? Both were fools and jackals....

Emile Pope

donald shut down the government because he couldn’t get the American taxpayers to pay for a wall that he promised Mexico would pay for. In the end it all came down to being another donald scam...

Carlos Ponce

No Emile, a wall is needed for American security. But if you want to think such nonsense, go ahead. It wouldn't be the first time for you.

Emile Pope

Did donald shut down the government?YES! Didn’t he promise that Mexico would pay for the wall? YES! Is he now asking the American taxpayers to foot the bill? YES!! So your no means ignorance of the facts or refusal to accept them...

Carlos Ponce

"Did donald (sic) shut down the government?" Since the bill never reached his desk, the real answer is no. But being president, he'll accept the responsibility.
"Didn’t he promise that Mexico would pay for the wall? " Yes, he did. And how Mexico will pay for it has been explained ad infinitum. But apparently that economic concept is beyond the mental capabilities of some individuals.
"Is he now asking the American taxpayers to foot the bill?" Of course. Just like all expenditures the government collects revenue then allocates it through Legislative action.
"So your no means ignorance of the facts or refusal to accept them.."
Is ignorance of the economic process in this country preventing Emile from grasping the situation? Apparently.

Emile Pope

Garbage! The bill didn't reach his desk because the REPUBLICAN leader of the senate refused to allow it to come to a vote. His explanation of how Mexico will pay for the wall has been shown to be a lie. The trade bill hasn't been approved and any monetary benefits go to private individuals not government coffers. Facts instead of repeating unsubstantiated claims. But you now admit that donald lied when he said that American taxpayers wouldn't pay for a wall. I never heard him say that they would during his campaign. Has Eastasia always been at war with Eurasia?

Carlos Ponce

"The bill didn't reach his desk because the REPUBLICAN leader of the senate refused to allow it to come to a vote."
So you admit Donald Trump did NOT stop government. GOOD!
And who has shown that Mexico paying for the wall is a lie? No one.
The money comes from Mexico to Americans. Money is then paid through the tax system to the American Government. The American Government then uses those funds to pay for needed government expenditures. A wall is NEEDED. Only a partisan uninformed zealot would claim it's not.
An analogy: A spouse in a familial relationship needs a new car. The old car is costing too much to upkeep, is not reliable and should be replaced. It's not big enough to handle the family needs. The spouse then secures those funds through other sources: changing electricity companies for example. The new car costs less to upkeep and is more economical so it eventually pays for itself.
Now substitute border wall for car.
The president asks for a new wall. The old wall is costing too much to upkeep, is not reliable and should be replaced. It's not big enough to handle the nation's needs.The president then secures those funds through other sources: renegotiating NAFTA. The new wall eventually pays for itself since fewer illegals will get in. The illegals are currently costing BILLIONS more than the cost of the wall.

Emile Pope

Ridiculous. First there is not a wall now. So there is no replacing it. Your car analogy is inane. What if I’m happy with my car and would rather perform simple repairs rather than buy a new one. No idiot gets to purchase a car that I did not want and send me the bill. They bought the car let them pay for it...and oh by the way genius, the money I save by NOT buying a new goes directly to me for my enjoyment. Ya burnt!!!

George Croix

Yet the idiots get to spend your federal and state tax money for unnecessary illegal alien maternity care and deliveries, emergency room visits, social services, education, et al, and send you the bill, in the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars, and you vote FOR that.

Too bad our most recent ex-Pres. has now decided he really never said, on video, what he did about border security.
If HE asked for 5 billion bucks to save hundreds of billions, you'd be calling anybody against that some kind of 'ism' or 'ist', as usual............

A study in self-contradiction............
You also supported spending 800 BILLION of your tax dollars on 'shovels', that only shoveled s.....stuff
So, money is not the problem, is it.........[rolleyes][whistling]

Carlos Ponce

" First there is not a wall now." Now THAT'S Ridiculous. Part of one is there but it is insufficient. To save money they used steel military runway material. But you cannot see through it, nor is it tall enough. There are pictures of steel panels with numbers on them. Looks like wall, acts like a wall. It's a wall.

Carlos Ponce

Here's the picture of the border wall Emile says does not exist. It is inadequate - not see through as the border patrol wants and not tall enough.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160304-us-mexico-border-fence-wall-photos-immigration/
There comes a time when maintenance on an older vehicle becomes not cost efficient. Remember Obama's "Cash for Clunkers" program? Some hold on to their older vehicles despite the fuel efficiency and lower maintence costs of a newer car. But there comes a time when common sense prevails. So readers when you see a Hoopty on the streets of Galveston you can guess who the driver is.
I saw an episode of the Science Network's series "Unearthed" The Inca had fortified Cuzco with a nice impenetrable wall. Problem was the wall did not go all the way around the city. Spanish Conquistadors found the gaps in that wall and conquered the Inca. Lesson?

Randy Chapman

Another Donald scam? “If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan.” “We’re going to lower your premiums by up to $2500 per family per year.” “I will sign a universal healthcare bill into law…that covers every American.” Just a few of Obama's whoppers! And just on the subject of healthcare.

Emile, calling Trump a liar is not really working for you as well as you think it. Do you think we've forgotten the Liar-In-Chief, President Obama?

Emile Pope

Whataboutism is a Russian gimmick. Your president is a liar and trying to sidetrack it my mentioning others is useless garbage. It doesn’t change what trump does. Unless you have proof that trump didn’t lie then save it. Trump lied when he said that Mexico would pay for a wall and now he is holding the government hostage until the American taxpayers pay for it. Despicable...

Carlos Ponce

Thank you for your uninformed biased opinion, Emile Pope - poster child of the far Left. Keep it up. Let the readers know what Democrats are thinking. Trump won Galveston County with 60.01% in 2016. With more rants like Emile's an even bigger landslide in 2020.[beam]
(Democrats, I don't really know if Emile's views are those of your party but readers believe they are.)[rolleyes]
What's that? Democrats made inroads into Galveston County in 2018 you claim? Not really. On November 8, 2018:
Ted Cruz won by 59.53%
Randy Weber won by 60.9%
Greg Abbott won by 63.56%
That looks pretty consistent. Know why? It's the crazy rants of crazed Democrats that wins elections for Republicans in Galveston County.[beam]
Thank you, Emile!

Emile Pope

Apparently you didn't comprehend what I wrote...

Carlos Ponce

We ALL comprehend, Emile. It is you who does not realize you are actually helping the president.

George Croix

Don't like Pres. Trump wanting to get some control over the border?
Then, how about ex-Pres. Obama, then Senator Obama, who was for it, before he's now against it.......

"We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States, undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country."

"We all agree on the need to better secure the border and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants," Obama added. "We are a generous and welcoming people, here in the United States, but those who enter the country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law."

Barack Hussein Obama 2005

Spoken with his first of what have now become two faces............ [beam][whistling]

Emile Pope

Unless you can show where President Obama supported a wall, then all your comments are garbage...

George Croix

Sure.
Nice try, though.
You're no less credible than you were before deflecting...again........
[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

Randy Chapman

Myopic much?

Lou Brown

Obama may not support a wall now, just like most of the democrats, but they all have "walls" around their houses, to keep them safe!

Jim Forsythe

Using this thinking, anyone that does not have a wall around their house, is not in favor of the wall!

Maybe you agree with.
A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak.

Carlos Ponce

But everyone who has a home has WALLS.[beam]

Carlos Ponce

What is it about a border wall/fence/barrier the Democrats don't like?
Walls work. Just ask those who protect the border, members of CBP and ICE will tell you they do.
Will it keep ALL people out of the country? No. there will be gate to allow people in LEGALLY. They will be properly vetted. No more sneaking into the country. Most illegal drug arrests are made at border crossings. Does that mean illegal drugs don't get into this country through illegal crossings? No. They know there's a chance at getting caught if they use a proper border crossing so they cross at other places without walls, agents, surveillance. That's how many illegal drugs get into this country.
In addition, to illegal drugs, there are child traffickers, sex traffickers sneaking into the country where there are no walls.
You want an electronic surveillance system? Fine so do I, So does the president. So does the border patrol to SUPPLEMENT an actual wall. Without the multitude of agents to run the monitors and be on site to apprehend electronic surveillance just gives you an overhead picture or an infrared image of people crossing illegally. By the time an agent gets there........GONE!

George Croix

Jim, if you have a house you HAVE walls, unless you live in a pole barn.

And, a shutdown means the President is weak???
Bull-o-knee
That's not so for ANY President.
Weak WOULD include all the hysteria over a 'shutdown' that is not actually so of 80% or so of the government's functions. If 20% of the units at the plant shutdown, the whole refinery is not shutdown.
Just more semantics and media baloney.
NEITHER side is without fault for the PARTIAL shutdown. The Republicans sat on their B-hinds for 2 years on the primary subject, and new Majority Dems are only looking for 'impeachment' fodder (as none is to be found, so far....) and for their base to get 'baser', and for tickets to Hawaii.....[beam][beam]
The current stalemate, argument is NOT over nothing more than a rounding error in the budget, it's over Pres. Trump getting to claim a win.
The folks 'working without pay' might want to stop swallowing whole the crap put out on the Left, and ask THEMSELVES why they have walls on their abodes, and whether they'd get in a big fight over a tenth of a percent of their budget....

Jim Forsythe

"But everyone who has a home has WALLS." and "wall around their house," are not the same .
The wall Lou and I was talking about is the one that is not holding up the structure.
By your way of thinking if the border wall is built, a house would also have to be built connected to the wall..
Under your plan, the cost would skyrocket.

Maybe you agree with.
A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak.

Carlos Ponce

"are not the same ." WALLS are WALLS.
Not only do your house walls keep out the elements and hold in the air-conditioning in the summer they also keep out varmints and that includes the two legged kind. But your house has windows and doors. Kept them open 50 years ago but rarely today. The concept is the same. A border wall/fence/barrier keeps varmints out.

George Croix

Bull-o-knee....
The purpose of walls isn't to hold up a roof.
That can be done with simple poles or just the framing or any type of vertical or even angled beam.
Walls are to keep outside things outside (or, for prisons, vice versa....)
Wind. Rain. Cold. Heat. Trespassers. Burglars. In-laws................[beam]

JHC!! There's no hope when smart people are reduced to arguing that a wall one place is not a wall, but 50' away is............

We already HAVE a few hundred miles of border wall.
What now, the Dems want to tear THAT down, after voting FOR it???
The entire Party should abandon Hillary and Bernie and that 1024th Indian and the crazy new 'Green New Deal' character who can't count past a few trillion, and just stick with John Kerry, who can at least claim to have consistently been before things before he was against them.........

Emile Pope

Now we have the ridiculous argument comparing 15 foot concrete walls to the walls of a house. How inane. Houses also have ROOFS! Are you now going to propose a border roof? Will Mexico pay for it also? That sound you hear is people laughing...

Carlos Ponce

Keep posting, Emile! You may have assured Donald Trump of a another victory in Galveston County. Can you send your posts to other parts of the country?

Jim Forsythe

"Walls work. Just ask those who protect the border, members of CBP and ICE will tell you they do."
Other people have other ideas. Some think that the wall is low on the list of what we need.
If the President wants to continue the shutdown he needs to revisit what he said in the past.
"A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak." - Donald Trump, 2013

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.
1:01 PM - Nov 8, 2013

“Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the President’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead. And he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t like doing that, that’s not his strength. And that’s why you have this horrible situation going on in Washington. It’s a very, very bad thing and it’s very embarrassing worldwide.”
“Well, very simply, you have to get everybody in a room. You have to be a leader. The president has to lead. He’s got to get [the Speaker of the House] and everybody else in a room, and they have to make a deal. You have to be nice, and be angry, and be wild, and cajole, and do all sorts of things. But you have to get a deal.
Trump also said that further down in history "when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president."


Jim Forsythe

As Trump has indicated that the shutdown could last up to a year, people that are going without pay will start to look for different employment. Back pay does not pay the bills now!
The disruption affects many government operations and the routines of 800,000 federal employees. Roughly 420,000 workers were deemed essential and will work unpaid just days before Christmas. An additional 380,000 will be furloughed, meaning they will stay home without pay.
Government contractors are often overlooked when it comes to the threat of a government shutdown. Now that the government is shutdown, contractors are wondering how it will affect them. It's estimated that over 100,000 contractors are going without pay that will not be reimbursed.

George Croix

The American Taxpayers are going without hundreds of billions of dollars a year that should be spent on citizens and legal residents, and thousands of Americans are without loved ones KILLED by illegal aliens.
Cry for them, not the ones aiding that to happen over and over and over......

THIS time, Pres. Trump is right...so far.....
Might as well go for broke, "double down"....what are the opponents, Left AND Right, gonna do about it?
Impeach him? [beam][beam][beam][beam] Now, there's a new threat.......

Gary Miller

This week president is standing strong. Next month or next year congress will fund the wall and a bunch of un needed Democrats will go back to sleeping on the job.

Emile Pope

Easy to say when he isn't feeling any hardship from the shutdown...

George Croix

Not feeling any hardship?
You and about a 150 million others have been giving the guy nothing BUT hardship since ya'll couldn't convince her to take the Scoob y Van to Wisconsin.
Hardship?
ONLY people down in our range feel hardship from pay delays. NONE of the people on EITHER side in DC are hurting for a paycheck.
BUT 'hardship' is also footing the bills for millions of illegals and hundreds of billions of dollars and attending funerals or filing insurance claims or recuperating from injuries that NEVER were supposed to happen, just because of all the leftists in this country who want to brown nose for future voters, along with any already doing so illegally, and any rightists who just want cheap labor.
Hardship, indeed........
This COUNTRY's hardship.
Your kids/grandkids in SCHOOL hardship.
Etc.

The people who oppose border security that WORKS already HATE the Pres. anyway, and they'd still hate him if he folds, so he has ZERO to lose....nada....zip....bupkis......

Gary Miller

I just heard a Democrat say the wall won't work. If they really think it won't work why not fund it and reopen the government? If the wall doesn't work they can still import illegal migrants for future voters.

Jim Forsythe

Democrats have a lot of work to do in the House, It will be a busy year coming up.
The Senate will have a lot of items that will require bi-partisan work.

Part of what the House is working on is keeping open departments that are important for running the Government.
If the Senate and the President do not want to pass these bills from the House, the public will know where each stand.
If someone wants the Government to stay shutdown until a Wall is approved, they know who to support.
If they would like the Government to open up the important departments and also work on border security, they know who support.

Funding the IRS is the first bill they are working on . If it is not open you may not get your tax refund, if you have one.
The House is working on FY19 Funding Bill That Includes $250 Million for CDFI
The bill is virtually identical to the funding measure passed by the Senate last year. The Senate did not include the RBC or CFPB provision in its bill.
“While President Trump threatens to keep the government shut down for ‘years,’ Democrats are taking immediate further action to re-open government, so that we can meet the needs of the American people, protect our borders and respect our workers,”
Pelosi said the House will consider the Financial Services funding measure first since it includes the IRS. Enactment of that measure would allow the IRS to process taxpayers’ income tax refunds.
The Financial Services Measure contains $250 million for the CDFI—the same amount as in the bill the Senate passed last year. The Trump Administration has proposed eliminating the program. The House called for $214 million for the program in last year’s spending measure.

Carlos Ponce

"virtually identical" -That's like saying Ruth Vader Ginsberg is virtually identical to Mae West. [beam]

Jim Forsythe

Part of what the House is working on is keeping open departments that are important for running the Government.
If the Senate and the President do not want to pass these bills from the House, the public will know where each stand.
If someone wants the Government to stay shutdown until a Wall is approved, they know who to support.
If they would like the Government to open up the important departments and also work on border security, they know who support.

Jim Forsythe

How Ruth Bader Ginsburg helped Felicity Jones play her in biopic 'On the Basis of Sex'
"On the Basis of Sex" is a move about Ruth who has a cameo in it. If you compare the young Ruth to Felicity Jones they look a lot alike. Maybe not May West, but most are not.
But their origins were beside the point for director Mimi Leder, who "kept looking at pictures of young Ruth and comparing them to Felicity Jones," she says. "There was a striking resemblance"

Carlos Ponce

"virtually identical"? NOT !

Carlos Ponce

"Funding the IRS is the first bill they are working on . If it is not open you may not get your tax refund, if you have one."
Let your heart not be troubled, Jim. Tax refunds will be sent out according to the IRS. Processing will commence on January 28th.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-07/irs-will-pay-refunds-during-government-shutdown-official-says

Jim Forsythe

"The IRS announced Monday evening that despite the government shutdown, it will process tax returns starting Jan. 28 and issue tax refunds as planned, a move ordered by the White House earlier in the day."
Employees still need to be trained to do returns based on Trump's tax reform. They didn't name the date they will begin accepting returns; probably have to wait until they train the people to do them.
It should be interesting since the Treasury department isn't funded yet. What are they going to pay the refund checks with - IOU's?
Also on Monday, the NTEU announced that it had filed a lawsuit against the government for forcing some federal employees to work without pay. This is the second lawsuit filed on behalf of federal workers.National Treasury Employees Union, which represents IRS workers.

Fair Labor Standards Act comes back into play.
The American Federation of Government Employees, one of the largest federal workforce unions, said it filed the lawsuit because it isn't fair to force people to work without pay and disrupt paychecks, especially for workers who protect public safety. Some of the people most affected by the policy are border patrol agents, airline security workers and immigration enforcement personnel. "Our members put their lives on the line to keep our country safe," said AFGE President J. David Cox Sr. "Requiring them to work without pay is nothing short of inhumane.
The union sued the government after the 2013 shutdown, arguing that Fair Labor Standards Act requires that all employees are paid on time for their services. Last year, the U.S. Court of Federal Claims concluded that employees were entitled to twice their back pay because of the violation.


George Croix

Pass the only real fair tax, one that taxes EACH dollar the same, no matter who earns it, and the IRS could be sent to pound sand.
But, noooo......

Carlos Ponce

"Democrats have a lot of work to do in the House.."
If the bill is worthwhile, Republicans will work with them. We have seen a lot of bills that will go no where. But this is typical.

Carlos Ponce

This CBS report from April of last year.
"Construction for new Texas border wall begins"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL08sbhHzRA

Jim Forsythe


"Construction for new Texas border wall begins" What you are talking about is not in Texas and just replaces old fence.. New Mexico is progressing on its 20-mile border fence construction west of Santa Teresa, replacing old posts and rail barriers.
The New Mexico project predates the 2018 bill.

Carlos Ponce

New car, Jim?
No, it's 2019 but a REPLACEMENT car. Not new at all.[wink]
CBS describes the fence as "new". Jim Forsythe has a mental block prohibiting him from calling it such. You're being silly, Jim.

Jim Forsythe

The number of miles in New Mexico will be the same. This is replacement, not new miles of fence.
New fence would be fence where none existed before.

Carlos Ponce

"New fence would be fence where none existed before."
No, Jim. It's a new fence. CBS thinks so, I think so. The president thinks so. You've crossed the line from silly to inane.
New wife, Jim?
No, she's a replacement. SHEESH!

Emile Pope

donald always said he wanted a fence. A wall and a fence are the same thing. Eastasia has always been at war with Eurasia. War is Peace Ignorance is Strength. Freedom is Slavery...

Carlos Ponce

It's a barrier, Emile. It's a wall. It's a fence. Does it matter what it's called?
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Juliet in William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet
"The importance of a person or thing is the way it is; not because of what it is called. Simply, it means the names of things cannot affect what they actually are."
https://literarydevices.net/a-rose-by-any-other-name/

Emile Pope

Yellow tape is a barrier. Tell ya what. Trump said that it was to be concrete and paid for by Mexico. Was he lying then or is he lying now? Yes...

Carlos Ponce

Mexico will pay for it. Be patient, Emile! And Trump has always said he will do what those who patrol the border agents (ICE and CBP) say is needed. I explained this back in 2016 during the campaign.
Are the steel bollard posts sunk into the ground? No they are embedded in CONCRETE.

Jim Forsythe

Why are you talking about my wife?

If the old fence is gone, then the fence that replaces it , is not new, just a replacement.
If the fence is 20 miles long and get replaced, it is not now 40 miles long. It is only 20 miles of fencing.

Carlos Ponce

It's new. Even Liberal CBS calls it's new.
People don't call new items replacements.
This is my new car - not a replacement car.
This is my new wife - not a replacement wife.
This is my new house - not a replacement house.
I have no idea about your familial relationships, just making an analogy. It's NEW wall.

Jim Forsythe

Trumps plan of calling more IRS workers back without pay is going to cost us because of Fair Labor Standards Act. If he would push for the funding plan the House is passing, it would bring back all IRS worker without having to pay 2 time wages. What he is trying to do will not bring all back .

Also on Monday, the NTEU announced that it had filed a lawsuit against the government for forcing some federal employees to work without pay. This is the second lawsuit filed on behalf of federal workers . National Treasury Employees Union, which represents IRS.
Fair Labor Standards Act comes back into play.
The American Federation of Government Employees, one of the largest federal workforce unions, said it filed the lawsuit because it isn't fair to force people to work without pay and disrupt paychecks, especially for workers who protect public safety. Some of the people most affected by the policy are border patrol agents, airline security workers and immigration enforcement personnel. "Our members put their lives on the line to keep our country safe," said AFGE President J. David Cox Sr. "Requiring them to work without pay is nothing short of inhumane.
The union sued the government after the 2013 shutdown, arguing that Fair Labor Standards Act requires that all employees are paid on time for their services. Last year, the U.S. Court of Federal Claims concluded that employees were entitled to twice their back pay because of the violation.


Carlos Ponce

Let your hear not be troubled, Jim. They will get paid.

Jim Forsythe

If he would push for the funding plan the House is passing, it would bring back all IRS worker without having to pay 2 time wages

George Croix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdAyn89hFIo

That's Chuck (and a host of others.....) .
MultiFACEted.
Two of them.
At least.

Emile Pope

I believe that some clueless individuals who claim that the wall, fence, or whatever they are calling it would be paid by Mexico through increased tariffs on their goods. Apparently they fail to comprehend that these tariffs would be paid by the American consumer not Mexico. And if Mexico lowers the tariffs on American goods the benefits go to the Mexican consumer. And here's the kicker...since any extra profit is made outside this country, the businesses can offshore the money and not pay any taxes on their profit. So thanks to donald, the taxpayers pay for the wall, the consumer pays more for goods, and the businesses get a tax free profit. Tired of wining yet?

Carlos Ponce

The money from the wall will not come from tariffs, Emile. It is apparent you still fail to grasp how Mexico will pay for the wall.
Currently under NAFTA the United States has a trade deficit with Mexico. In 2017 alone it amounted to $63.6 billion. Under USMCA there should be less of a deficit and could eventually result in a surplus. Congress would be foolish not to pass the USMCA. Does passage of the USMCA mean Mexico will send us a check $63.6 Billion? No. But that money will be kept in the United States - a net plus for the US economy. That money will mean increased manufacturing, increase in jobs, salaries, etc here in the USA. The income taxes from corporations benefiting from USMCA and the salaries of workers will pay for the wall.
To put it simply, $63.6 Billion will no longer go to Mexico. It will be kept here. The wall will be paid for. And don't forget the "C" part of USMCA. The billions in trade deficits with Canada will be lessened and could eventually result in a surplus if passed.

Emile Pope

Do you have any, any idea of what trade deficits are or how they work? They have nothing to do with profit or loss whatsoever. So decreasing the trade deficit won't add money to the economy or the federal government. If A car costs 20,000 and I get it at a 20% discount, the difference doesn't go the government or the economy. It goes to me. To insist that "phantom money" would be paid by a treaty that isn't even approved makes no sense.

Carlos Ponce

"Do you have any, any idea of what trade deficits are or how they work?" Yes, but from your post it looks like you have to study more, Emile.

George Croix

After watching the Dem rebuttal of the Presidents's Oval Office speech last night, I have three wishes to make:
1) That Pelosi/Schumer actually SAY specifically what was 'misinformation' in the President's talk
2) That Pelosi/Schumer actually SAY what THEY would DO for 'border security' without additional barriers
3) That Pelosi/Schumer are not in pain when the corncobs so obviously alimentary are removed.....[beam][beam][beam]

Even Politico, hardly a screaming mad right wing bunch, announced the results of their poll Tuesday morning that found 42% of the polled consider the southern border crossings to be a crisis, and another 37% that they are a problem. That's 79%!!!
Only 12% said they were not a problem - this would be the Nancy/Chuck/et all types.
One can only speculate about the remaining 9%.

On the subject at hand, having been for it before now against it, these two have decided that, rather than act to protect Americans rather than illegals, if they just try hard enough, they can STILL reverse the outcome of the 2016 election....!!!

Can't fix that...............

Emile Pope

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/09/politics/trump-wall-pay-mexico/index.html

Have a nice day...

Carlos Ponce

If someone were to post a FOX link, would Emile view it?
"The wall will also be paid for indirectly by the great new trade deal we have made with Mexico." That sounds right.

George Croix

You'll make a great broken record in your next incarnation, Pope.

"This bill won't cost taxpayers a SINGLE dime."
"This bill will save Americans 2500 dollars a year.
"This bill will make affordable health care available to all Americans."
"This bill is NOT a tax."

You have one, too, Pope.

We're already living with your buddy's promises...after 8 years.
Remains to be seen whether the new guy is successful in his or not....after 2 years.

I'd provide multiple links, but even you can't deny the promises......you san simply ignore them...as usual...........

Emile Pope

Trying to bring up something else down not change the fact that donald blatantly lied about who would be paying for the wall. Unless you have evidence that he was telling the truth then spare us the whataboutisms. So, who’s paying for the wall donald said Mexico would be paying for?

Carlos Ponce

Emile, the situation has already been explained. Mexico is supplying additional funds through USMCA that will be more than enough to pay for the wall. If you still do not understand it, print my post, find a fifth grader. He or she will be more than able to explain it to you.

George Croix

Your consistent, Pope.
One man's trash is another's treasure was written with you in mind.
imo

Emile Pope

Provide the links...

Carlos Ponce

Emile, I have provided the information. You provide the fifth grader.

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