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Bailey Jones

"The truth unquestionably is, that the only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion. Tired at length of anarchy, or want of government, they may take shelter in the arms of monarchy for repose and security.

"Those then, who resist a confirmation of public order, are the true Artificers of monarchy—not that this is the intention of the generality of them. Yet it would not be difficult to lay the finger upon some of their party who may justly be suspected. When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanor—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the nonsense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may “ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.”

-Alexander Hamilton, 18 August 1792

Ted Gillis

Oh, and here I thought you were talking about Ted Cruz.

Carlos Ponce

"unprecedented"?????? The AP writers should check the history of the United States before printing that LIE.

Carlos Ponce

History :

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Electoral-Commission

"Electoral Commission, (1877), in U.S. history, commission created by Congress to resolve the disputed presidential election of 1876 between Republican Rutherford B. Hayes and Democrat Samuel J. Tilden. For the first time since before the Civil War the Democrats had polled a majority of the popular vote, and preliminary returns showed Tilden with 184 electoral votes of the 185 needed to win, while Hayes had 165. Three states were in doubt: Florida, Louisiana, and South Carolina, with 19 electoral votes among them. The status of one of Oregon’s three electors—that had already been given to Tilden—was also in question."

Ted Gillis

Well I think it’s pretty “unprecedented”. So there, using the republican reason of logic makes it not a lie until proven to be a lie by the challenger demanding that the publisher of said lie, proves that he was not lying.

Carlos Ponce

Ted, I've provided proof that this action is PRECEDENTED. AP writers LIED.

Bailey Jones

Yes, Carlos - there's no doubt that this is not the first time Republicans have tried to overturn an election, as your article makes clear. Equally clear is your 8th-grade debate club tactic of ignoring the actual story. So let's go through it point by point:

"Trump has enlisted support from a dozen Republican senators and up to 100 House Republicans to challenge the Electoral College vote when Congress convenes in a joint session to confirm President-elect Joe Biden’s 306-232 win." This is a fact.

"Despite Trump's claims of voter fraud, state officials have insisted the elections ran smoothly and there was no evidence of fraud or other problems that would change the outcome. The states have certified their results as fair and valid. Of the more than 50 lawsuits the president and his allies have filed challenging election results, nearly all have been dismissed or dropped. He’s also lost twice at the U.S. Supreme Court." This is a fact.

"On a call disclosed Sunday, Trump can be heard pressuring Georgia officials to “find” him more votes." The complete transcript of this call is here: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html

"But some senior lawmakers, including prominent Republicans, are pushing back." This is a fact, as evidenced by:

“The 2020 election is over,” said a statement Sunday from a bipartisan group of 10 senators, including Republicans Susan Collins of Maine, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Mitt Romney of Utah." This is a fact. (The full statement is here - “The 2020 election is over. All challenges through recounts and appeals have been exhausted. At this point, further attempts to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the 2020 Presidential election are contrary to the clearly expressed will of the American people and only serve to undermine Americans’ confidence in the already determined election results. The voters have spoken, and Congress must now fulfill its responsibility to certify the election results. In two weeks, we will begin working with our colleagues and the new Administration on bipartisan, common sense solutions to the enormous challenges facing our country. It is time to move forward.”)

Republican Gov. Larry Hogan of Maryland said, “The scheme by members of Congress to reject the certification of the presidential election makes a mockery of our system and who we are as Americans.” full statement - https://governor.maryland.gov/2021/01/03/governor-hogan-statement-on-attempts-to-oppose-certification-of-presidential-election-results/

Former House Speaker Paul Ryan, a Republican, said in a statement that “Biden’s victory is entirely legitimate" and that efforts to sow doubt about the election “strike at the foundation of our republic.” This is a fact. Full statement - “All our basic rights and freedoms flow from a fidelity to the Constitution and rule of law. This principle is not only fundamentally American but a central tenet on conservatism. Under our system, voters determine the president, and this self-governance cannot sustain itself if the whims of Congress replace the will of the people. I urge members to consider the precedent that it would set.

“Efforts to reject the votes of the Electoral College and sow doubt about Joe Biden‘s victory strike at the foundation of our republic. It is difficult to conceive of a more anti-democratic and anti-conservative act than a federal intervention to overturn the results of state-certified elections and disenfranchise millions of Americans. The fact that this effort will fail does not mean it not do significant damage to American democracy.

“The Trump campaign had ample opportunity to challenge election results, and those efforts failed from lack of evidence. The legal process was exhausted, and the results were decisively confirmed. The Department of Justice, too, found no basis for overturning the result. If states wish to reform their processes for future elections, that is their prerogative. But Joe Biden’s victory is entirely legitimate.”

Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the third-ranking House Republican, warned in a memo to colleagues that objections to the Electoral College results “set an exceptionally dangerous precedent.” This is a fact. Excerpts from National Review - https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/liz-cheney-objecting-to-electoral-college-votes-sets-exceptionally-dangerous-precedent/

One of the more outspoken conservatives in Congress, Arkansas Republican Sen. Tom Cotton, said he will not oppose the counting of certified electoral votes on Jan. 6. "I’m grateful for what the president accomplished over the past four years, which is why I campaigned vigorously for his reelection. But objecting to certified electoral votes won’t give him a second term—it will only embolden those Democrats who want to erode further our system of constitutional government.”

Cotton said he favors further investigation of any election problems, separate from the counting of the certified Electoral College results. - This is a fact

Other prominent former officials also criticized the ongoing attack on election results. In a brief op-ed in The Washington Post, the 10 living former defense secretaries -- half who served Republican presidents -- said “the time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived.” This is a fact. Full op-ed is here - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/10-former-defense-secretaries-military-peaceful-transfer-of-power/2021/01/03/2a23d52e-4c4d-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html

The unusual challenge to the presidential election, on a scale unseen since the aftermath of the Civil War (see - not really unprecedented), clouded the opening of the new Congress and is set to consume its first days. The House and Senate will meet Wednesday in a joint session to accept the Electoral College vote, a typically routine process that's now expected to be a prolonged fight. - facts.

Trump is refusing to concede- fact.

Trump is whipping up crowds for a rally in Washington - fact.

Cruz's coalition of 11 Republican senators vows to reject the Electoral College tallies unless Congress launches a commission to immediately conduct an audit of the election results. They are zeroing in on the states where Trump has raised unfounded claims of voter fraud. Congress is unlikely to agree to their demand. - fact

The convening of the joint session to count the Electoral College votes has faced objections before. In 2017, several House Democrats challenged Trump’s win but Biden, who presided at the time as the vice president, swiftly dismissed them to assert Trump's victory. - fact

Another fact - Trump lost.

One more fact - Biden won.

Carlos Ponce

Sit back and watch God at work.

Bailey Jones

Carlos, you've been taking the Lord's name in vain almost daily for weeks. I expect I'll soon have an opportunity to add the word "smote" to my comments.

Carlos Ponce

No, Bailey. I am just relaying what the Lord has told his prophets.

Bailey Jones

Not God's prophets, Carlos, your idols.

"If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. A prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded is to be put to death."

16 days and counting. It's not too late to repent.

Carlos Ponce

No, Bailey, they are GOD'S PROPHETS.

Ted Gillis

But according to republican logic, the AP has to prove that they didn’t lie, so until they do so, they didn’t. It doesn’t matter how many times you say otherwise.

Carlos Ponce

Sounds like Ted Gillis illogic not Republican logic.

Ted Gillis

Listen to Josh Hawley. His logic is even more convoluted than what I stated.

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