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Diane Turski

Thank you for providing a comprehensive and clear explanation regarding this important impeachment procedure.

Gary Miller

Diane>Now we know why Democrats think voters are stupid. They know you and think you are an example of all voters.

Emile Pope

Is that why they always make fun of their intellect and education? Why Democratic voters tend to be better educated than Republican ones? Why Democratic voters tend to be more knowledgeable and better informed than Republicans? Or why Fox viewers tend to be less?

Gary Miller

Emile> I was a Democrat until I decided I didn't want to associate with people as stupid as the Democrats I knew. I became a Republican because I wanted to associate with people smarter than I. So far I was right.

Carlos Ponce

Schiff only accepted three of the witnesses sought by the Republicans. Doubtful Trump will be impeached. Some are hoping that he will. Why? In the Senate they can call upon all these witnesses Schiff refuses to bring to the hearings. What would Hunter Biden have to say? How about Eric Ciaramella? And while it would be troublesome to call the Chief Inquisitor Adam Schiff to the stand they can call on members to his staff with no problem. Will you watch the

Adam

Schiff

Show?

Bailey Jones

I'm watching. I'm watching the examination of witnesses by Schiff & co., as well as the cross examination by Nunes & co, as should all Americans.

If this is all a chimera, I'm sure the Republicans can put it to rest in a timely manner. One wonders why, if the president is so obviously innocent, he refuses to allow the main players (Giuliani, Mulvaney, and others) to testify under oath before the nation. Surely they could shut this down in a moment and show the whole world how dishonest the Democrats must surely be, if Trump is in fact innocent.

Carlos Ponce

A simple end to this. Give each witness a copy of the official transcript of the phone conversation. Ask him or her to circle the part that violates the law. "Do me a favor" is NOT criminal. When they cannot identify anything as criminal then dismiss each witness. It should be over in less than an hour.

In the vernacular of my students this was an A and B conversation and Schiff should C his way out of their business.

Emile Pope

The part where Donald withheld the aid to Ukraine. The part where he ordered his staff to ignore a legal subpoena and not testify. The part where he refused to provide information required for the impeachment inquiry. The part where he obstructed an investigation. The president is a crook...

Gary Miller

Emile> Pay attention. Trump did not withhold aid and did not mention aid in the phone call. Witnesses so far testified under oath it was their OPINION based on what they heard from others who also based their opinions on something from someone else. If this is all Shifty has Pelosi may shut this farse down PDQ.

Bailey Jones

Another Trumpian obfuscation. The phone call in isolation is not the issue. It's one bit of evidence to the issue. There are multiple meetings, texts, conference calls, and speeches, all part of the coordinated back channel campaign to force the Ukrainian government to announce publicly that they were embarking on an investigation of the Bidens, and re-opening an investigation into whether it was the Russians that interfered with the 2016 election. (There is no evidence of illegality on the part of the Bidens, and there is no evidence that it was the Ukrainians, not the Russians, who tried so hard to get Trump elected. These are both old allegations and have been thoroughly investigated by American intelligence.)

Carlos Ponce

The phone call is the basis of the impeachment investigation. Remove the base and everything else falls.

"There is no evidence of illegality on the part of the Bidens". That's the standard answer because it was NEVER investigated. So what would be lost by putting Hunter on the stand if they did nothing illegal?

"These are both old allegations and have been thoroughly investigated by American intelligence." Standard line - no truth in it. It was NEVER, repeat NEVER investigated.

While we're at it let me show you a REAL "quid pro quo": "They were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, ... we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, ‘You have no authority. You’re not the president.’ … I said, call him. I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. ... I looked at them and said, ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.’ Well, son of a bit** He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time." Joe Biden speech at the Council on Foreign Relations on Jan. 23, 2018.

Now, if what Joe said is true, that's illegal. Or are you calling Joe Biden a liar????

Emile Pope

Ordering staff to refuse to cooperate with a legal investigation is impeachable itself. refusing to provide information is also.

Bailey Jones

"Hunter Biden did not violate any Ukrainian laws -- at least as of now, we do not see any wrongdoing," according to Ukraine's (new) prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko in an interview with Bloomberg. In regards to a 2013 business transaction that was part of the investigation, Lutsenko said, "(Hunter) Biden was definitely not involved. We do not have any grounds to think that there was any wrongdoing starting from 2014 (when Biden joined the company).

According to Reuters - "Interviews with more than a dozen people, including executives and former prosecutors in Ukraine, paint a picture of a director who provided advice on legal issues, corporate finance and strategy during a five-year term on the board, which ended in April of this year.

Biden never visited Ukraine for company business during that time, according to three of the people.

They also said that his presence on the board didn’t protect the company from its most serious challenge: a series of criminal investigations launched by Ukrainian authorities against its owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, a multimillionaire former minister of ecology and natural resources. The allegations concern tax violations, money-laundering and licences given to Burisma during the period where Zlochevsky was a minister."

Now, I've said before, and will repeat it again, I think the whole Biden thing stinks of corruption - same as the business the Trumpkids are involved in. But there's no evidence that it's illegal.

Carlos Ponce

"Ordering staff to refuse to cooperate with a legal investigation is impeachable itself." Laughable, Emile, considering Obama did it all the time citing "executive Privilege." So Obama should have been impeached????

Carlos Ponce

"Obama Official Won't Testify to Congress" Jul 16, 2014

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/16/us/politics/obama-official-wont-testify-to-congress.html

"The White House said Tuesday night that it would refuse to allow its director of political strategy to testify Wednesday before a Republican-led House committee investigating whether the administration had illegally conducted political activity in the West Wing."

"Obama won’t let top aide who revealed he lied about Iran nuke deal testify to House on the deal" May 17, 2016

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/05/obama-wont-let-top-aide-who-revealed-he-lied-about-iran-nuke-deal-to-testify-to-house-on-the-deal

"White House snubs Chaffetz, refuses to let aide testify after controversial Iran remarks" - May 17, 2016

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/white-house-snubs-chaffetz-refuses-to-let-aide-testify-after-controversial-iran-remarks

June 20, 2012 - Obama refused Congressional Subpoena into documents on "Fast and Furious"

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/us/obama-claims-executive-privilege-in-gun-case.html

Emile Pope

More garbage. You cannot invoke executive privilege when you are the object of an impeachment inquiry. Ask Nixon. And you cannot order your staff to refuse to testify in order to prevent them from testifying about illegal acts you are accused to committing. Garbage out, garbage out...

Emile Pope

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon

Carlos Ponce

"You cannot invoke executive privilege when you are the object of an impeachment inquiry. "

"It’s a powerful but sometimes murky concept that allows presidents to shield certain information about goings-on in the West Wing from the public, the courts, and Congress." https://fivethirtyeight.com

The US v Nixon judgement was very limited requiring Nixon to hand over tapes. Trump has turned over the transcript of the conversation in question. Nixon was in his second term when the impeachment was started. SCOTUS would be reluctant to take on a case that would take months to decide from subpoena to oral arguments to a final decision thrusting it into the waning months of an election cycle. They probably will not hear it deciding that people can vote him out if they don't like him.

Gary Miller

Bailey> What the Bidens did may not have been against the law in the highly corrupt Ukraine but was against US law. The Ukraine government told US justice system members of Ukraine government tried to help HRC (AKA Hillary R. Clinton) in the 2016 election. There is still no evidence Russia tried to help Trump but there is proven evidence HRC conspired with Russians trying to hurt Trump in 2016.The Bidens and HRC are guilty.

Miceal O'Laochdha

Carlos, could I suggest a alternate simple end to this? Suppose neighbor A asks neighbor B to use his lawnmower. And neighbor B says yes but, I need you to do me a favor though: I want to "investigate" your wife for a few hours. Neighbor B's response is NOT criminal. But, I don't think neighbor B should be the President of the US, either...

Carlos Ponce

Not a good analogy, Michael.

Carlos Ponce

I mean Miceal.[beam]

Miceal O'Laochdha

Carlos is probably right. In this scenario, neighbor B would not ask to "investigate" his neighbor's wife, he would just go up and grab her by the...…..; when you're famous they just let you do that. Either way, not someone of whom to be proud.

Bailey Jones

Don't waste your time. Carlos has bought the line that there's no difference between a legal quid pro quo - "hey, we need you to fire the prosecutor who's obstructing our joint effort to eliminate corruption in your country" and the illegal, "hey, I need you to investigate the Bidens so I'll have a campaign rally talking point".

Quid pro quo is standard operating procedure between countries. Asking another country to help you win an election is not. One is legal. One is not.

Gary Miller

Democrats announced 19 minutes after Trump was sworn in that they must impeach him. For three years they have tried and failed. This is their most recent attempt but likely not the last. Why don't they just vote to impeach and let the Senate vote to exonerate or just throw the impeachment out when received? This writer is obviously an anti Trumper with a totally biased reading of events.

Gary Miller

After watching this mornings Schiff show I think Pelosi would be better served if she ended it before it gets worse. Shifty's witnesses testified they had opinions based on hearsay from other people who had opinions based on hearsay.

David Hardee

The wheels of government are turning appropriately. We must trust them to deliver justice. The government is us. We elected them because they are elites, leaders, wise, most qualified among us. Is there doubt that American society is not wise enough to elect patriots dedicated to do best for the American people. Just observe American society and you understand why government is disgusting. The swamp creatures are in society. We are getting our just deserts.

Bailey Jones

"The wheels of government are turning appropriately. We must trust them to deliver justice. The government is us." - I agree completely.

Carlos Ponce

Remember this moment when President Trump is re-elected: "The wheels of government are turning appropriately."[beam]

David Hardee

Some of the creatures parse out only that which fits their narrative That is the bane of justice.

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