Monument to Monument march

Protesters cover a statue honoring Confederate soldiers in front of the Galveston County Courthouse, 722 21st St. in Galveston, on Friday, June 19, 2020. Close to 100 people marched from the 1859 Ashton Villa, where a statue of a legislator holding the bill making Juneteenth a holiday stands, to the courthouse to call for the removal of the Confederate statue, named “Dignified Resignation.”

Protesters across the country, including here in Galveston County, are calling for the removal of statues that depict Confederate heroes or otherwise reflect the era of slavery. In many cases, they have defaced, destroyed, covered or removed them.

The Question of the week is: 

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(54) comments

Victoria Lewis

They are a part of an ugly history, but history nonetheless. They need to be placed in museums. With whatever writings approved of by curators, hopefully included would be the ugly histories of these people as well.

Tax money most times went to the construction of these monuments, and statues. So why waste the money when they can go live in museums and help out other charities. Thats usually what museums do anyway. Help a charity with ticket sales.

Carlos Ponce

"Tax money most times went to the construction of these monuments" Not the one in front of the Old Galveston County Courthouse. It was paid for by the UDC, United Daughters of the Confederacy, donated to Galveston County.

Jack Reeves

[thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

David Cody

Great idea

Comment deleted.
Gary Scoggin

Are you volunteering?

Charles Wiley

I’m afraid that the destruction of our history will further divide us. I think we’ll find that the overwhelming majority of us are not in favor of removing monuments from public places.

Claudia Burnam

[thumbup] E G Wiley (No relation to Charles Wiley)

Wayne D Holt

[thumbup]

Jack Reeves

[thumbup]

Ray Taft

The Democrat party is the party of slavery, Jim Crow laws, the KKK, racism and monuments to their defeated Confederacy.

So it would be much better to start by getting rid of Democrats first.

Remember it’s Democrats who put those monuments to their racism there, even though Democrats and their media friends don’t want you to think about that.

Gary Scoggin

Glad you got your daily Democrat rant in, Ray.

Ray Taft

Thanks. Can’t leave it to TDN and you Democrats to do it!

Comment deleted.
Ray Taft

You’re right it’s Democrats who are the racists because they put the monuments there.

And for decades they remained there in Democrat run cities - no poll required for the Democrats racism, because it’s blatantly obvious.

And in Democrat run cities that is where the Democrats decades long racist doings led to all the protests.

jimmy winston

please answer my question. How many confederate flag waving losers will vote for Biden this year, if they are all Democrats?

Carlos Ponce

"How many confederate flag waving losers will vote for Biden this year, if they are all Democrats?" ALL OF THEM! But don't worry, Trump will still win.[beam]

Charles Douglas

If there is not LEFT,..then who will erect a statue of Soleimani, Abu Al Baghdadi, and XI JINPING..here? Some Progressives got indignant when TRUMP DIESEL had SOLEIMANI knocked off! Hey, I'm not saying......but I'm just saying!

Meg Cagnola

You can't change history, but you can learn from it. Removing the statues will not change what was a way of life way back when. How about removing all of the Union statues up North?

Bill Silkowski

Leave them be. You can't erase history nor should we

Gary Scoggin

This isn't about erasing history, it's about putting it in perspective. For instance, I find the statue at the courthouse less offensive than a prominent monument to jefferson Davis, for example. The soldier in the statue was a common man, in many ways a victim of circumstance, whereas the Confederate leaders led an act of treason in order to support an economic system based on slavery.

Here's a thought experiment: The plaque at the courthouse statue has the phrase “purity of motives, intensity of courage and heroism.” Surely that applied to the Union soldiers as well. Could we erect a statue of a Union soldier beside the existing one? You know, someone who sacrificed to preserve the nation. Would that be acceptable?

Bailey Jones

When I was in California a few years ago doing some testing at JPL, we went sightseeing and found a Defending the Union monument in old downtown Pasadena. It was very similar to the confederate statue at the courthouse - except without the "defeated" part. The problem with adding a Union monument is that Texas wasn't in the Union. That's why I like the idea of an emancipation / Juneteenth addition - it's something historically relevant to Galveston. I'd like the city to move towards becoming a Juneteenth celebration center - especially if Juneteenth becomes a national holiday and the Juneteenth National Trail gets established. And that's why I oppose the removal of this particular statue (though not confederate statues in general) - you can't have Juneteenth without an utterly defeated confederacy. I think some sort of "fall of the confederacy" / "rise of emancipation" set of statues is the perfect solution.

Carlos Ponce

Gary Scoggins asks, "Could we erect a statue of a Union soldier beside the existing one?" They tore down a statue of Ulysses Grant, too and he was Union.

Gary Scoggin

"They" is not "We". What happened elsewhere is interesting but irrelevant as to what happens here. What about a statue of a Union soldier in Galveston? Would that be appropriate?

Carlos Ponce

Iconoclasts are iconoclast.

Gary Scoggin

After all, as many here like to point out, Lincoln was a Republican and also leader of the Union. It seems like we need a statue of a Union soldier here to emphasise our Republican heritage. What I don't understand is why all the good Republicans are defending statues of Democrats. (Where's Ray Taft when you need him? He's the one wanting to get rid of all the Democrats. Let's start with the statues.)

Carlos Ponce

"Lincoln was a Republican and also leader of the Union." He's on the one cent piece and people want that removed, too. Maybe they'll let him stay on the $5 bill.

Gary Scoggin

Just interested, What "people" want Lincoln removed from the penny. I hadn't heard that but I believe it. Just because....

Carlos Ponce

For one Senator John McCain, in the 2017 S. 759, the Currency, Optimization, Innovation, and National Savings bill.

Gary Scoggin

Well, he's dead. Is there anybody else?

Joe Mancuso

The bill Carlos refers to did not say anything about removing Lincoln from the penny. The bill called for stopping the production of pennies for a 10 year period. Absolutely nothing about removing Lincoln.

Read the bill here:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/759/text#:~:text=To%20save%20taxpayers%20money%20by%20improving%20the%20manufacturing%20and%20distribution,notes%2C%20and%20for%20other%20purposes.&text=This%20Act%20may%20be%20cited,National%20Savings%20Act%20of%202017%E2%80%9D

Joe Mancuso

Oops, the link I posted had some special characters that GDN didn't like.

The bill Carlos refers to did not say anything about removing Lincoln from the penny. The bill called for stopping the production of pennies for a 10 year period. Absolutely nothing about removing Lincoln.

Read the bill here:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/759/

and click on the "Text" tab to read the entire bill.

Bailey Jones

Poor McCain - always the Trumpsters' whipping boy. You'd think they'd be satisfied with the whippings he got in the Hanoi Hilton while serving his country instead of pretending to have bone spurs. He wanted to eliminate pennies entirely, not because they had Lincoln on them, but because they cost more than a penny to make and are therefore a money making operation that actually loses money. A lot of Republicans use to want to do that, back when Republicans use to believe in pinching pennies.

But you're right - they sure love these old bronze, racist, slavery defending Democrats. What's up with that? Maybe they think the statues use the same bronzer as their president.

(BTW, Ray and Gary M are on the anti-confederate statue train. It's really just the Trumpuppets who aren't.)

Carlos Ponce

No "penny" means no Lincoln on the one cent piece or anyone's likeness for that matter.

But now BLM activist Shaun King says it is permissible to take down any statue of Jesus with "white" features. Really?

Carlos Ponce

"He's on the one cent piece and people want that removed, too."

He = Lincoln

one cent piece = what most people refer to as a "penny".

Since Joe is nit picking I must point out our one cent piece is not really a "penny" A "penny" is actually a British variation for pence, a British coin. The U.S. Mint's official name for our coin is "cent". But "penny" was used in Colonial America and although inaccurate has become an understood name for the one cent piece.

"Penny wise and pound foolish" is a reference to two British coins

Jim Forsythe

According to the U.S. Mint, both the penny and the nickel have been produced at a loss since 2006 because the materials used to cost more than the value of the coins. By some estimates, producing a single penny can cost more than 2 cents. And in the aggregate, production of both pennies and nickels results in a loss of about $436 million per year.

Carlos Ponce

Bailey, why are you complaining? White Confederates immortalized in brown bronze. I would think you would find that poetic justice. [beam]

Gary Scoggin

So we are at the point we get to in these long threads where Carlos starts getting silly. Time to move on.

Carlos Ponce

"both the penny and the nickel have been produced at a loss since 2006"

I see but "Copper and its alloys (brasses, bronzes, cupronickel, copper-nickel-zinc, and others) are natural antimicrobial materials."

Nickel?

Silver is also used to fight microbes. A silver dollar was dropped into a sailing ship's barrel of drinking water and pioneer's barrel of water to prevent it from going bad.

"Prior to refrigeration, silver coins were used to help keep milk and water fresh longer."

Carlos Ponce

So we are at the point we get to in these long threads where Gary Scoggin starts complaining. What's the matter, scrolling wheel conked out? "Oh no!" cries Gary Scoggin, "There's another post! I know I mustn't, I shouldn't but I have an overpowering urge to READ that post! I have NO will power!" [sigh]

William Bower

I believe that it is the plaque that is the problem. “Purity of Motive”? Perhaps in the history books of the mid 20th century but those myths have long been debunked

Carlos Ponce

The plaque isn't the problem since "purity of motives" refers to the defense of their homes, their farms, their families as defined in the unveiling ceremonies in 1912.

Carlos Ponce

They have removed statues and/or destroyed statues of white men including George Washington, Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson who were not associated with the Confederacy. They have or will remove Black icons we grew up with from the store shelves. And who haven't they touched? Vladimir Lenin! His statue still stands in Seattle.

Bailey Jones

I think Carlos may be on to something with his beloved Uncle Ben and Aunt Jemima "Black icons". (icon - noun, a person or thing regarded as a representative symbol or as worthy of veneration)

The Fremont Lenin sculpture - although on private property and therefore irrelevant to any discussion of public monuments - "is often decorated, appropriated, or vandalized with various intentions, both whimsical and serious", according to the website. Maybe that's a solution. Let's paint up old "Dignity in Defeat" in blackface. At least for Juneteenth. We can do rainbows for Pride, paint his flag "I surrender" white for the 4th of July, hang a bag of toys from his sad little sword at Christmas, stick a pumpkin on his head at Halloween, etc.

I'm really liking this idea.

Gary Scoggin

It could be like the Cadillac Ranch outside of Amarillo. It's open season for graffitti artists; they get painted all the time. They've been painted over so many times that there may not be any steel left underneath.

Bailey Jones

[thumbup]

Carlos Ponce

"blackface painted lawn jockeys I use to see". I hear you replaced them with pink flamingos and garden gnomes when the neighbors complained.

Comment deleted.
Bailey Jones

Blackface is racist??? Really? You mean all of those blackface painted lawn jockeys I use to see everywhere with their coal black skin, snow white eyes, and big red lips were racist? You know - the ones that were such a large part of our southern heritage? Do you suppose that's why they were all removed? Because they were offensive?

Comment deleted.
jimmy winston

I bet you would be the first round pick

jimmy winston

If it takes a statue to remind us how bad slavery was, how stupid the confederate states of America were, or how badly the south wanted to keep people as property, then we have a lot larger issues. Why cant you teach you kids in your house that slavery is bad and have to rely on a statue to do it? If you think that statues honoring traitorous losers are important piece of our society, would you also like to see statues in Germany honoring Hitler? I am sure European Jews would love the "its a part of our history and we cant ever forget it" argument.

I say we tear down the stupid statues and melt them down to whatever raw material is and and send it to the scrap yard.

Charles Douglas

Democrats are so skilled at taking what belongs to others and doing something with them, ....statues, and money included! I must confess I never in my life heard my father talk to me or my siblings about how hateful and dreadful a statue was! He preached to us about working hard, staying out of jail, and prison, making good grades and competing in life! Matter of fact, I never heard a statue use the "N" word, or say, " If yall don't vote Democratic Yall AINT BLACK!" Both utterances are on the same level concerning racial humiliation and disgust to me! They both are words used to keep African-Americans on the Farm Of Contentment, feeling inferior, and in their place! I myself have never told my sons, "Watch out for that statue over yonder now, because it will keep you from getting those Masters Degree both of them ended up getting! " Watch out for that statue down the street because that one will keep yall from excelling in sports which one of them did!" No I told them I was there for them, I worked hard and expected them to do the Same! I told them to stay out of trouble, compete, and NEVER come through my front door with less than a "B" anywhere on their report cards! Yes,..I threaten them, because I needed to. I also bought plenty automobiles and did other things as rewards for their greatness and accomplishments! I don't know anybody, who wants to teach a kid to teardown stuff, loot, beat old women with 2x4(s) ..Sucker punch 92 year old women,..on the streets! I fail to see how those things will help the young progress in maturity nor in life! I have a great nephew who I have been watching and encouraging since he walked on the YMCA Pee-Wee basketball courts in League City! He has received a full ride for a four year education, and a shot at the NBA from a D1 school in Athens Ohio as a result of righteous influences in his life, financial support from his family, including me, and Hard work with a lot of HUSSLE! Sorry, I did not mention a statue to him either! What is soooooo amazing is, ... he never asked about one! Personally ...I say do your thing ...because we are doing our! Sometimes I feel sad that I never got to play for Darrell Royal at Texas ....but when I think hard about it, my goodness, they would not let me play for ORVILLE ETHEREDGE who coached the LaMarque High Tigers,......with players like Norman Bulaich, Phil Trotter, James Crowder, Steve Jamail, and Sidney Worsham! I passed through towns in Texas riding to Grambling State with signs over the door saying "COLORED ENTRANCE" in the rear-------> . So, I say to #&# with a statue,... I need to watchout for men who walks, talks, and breathe. The "DEMS" can watch and destroy men made of stone.

Charles Douglas

Now I will have to see how far the LEFT is going with this erasing history ruse! On top of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Andrew Jackson being slave owners and gracing statues in various places in America, even having their names on towns and cities, I have found out there were at least TWO famous men who fought the Hispanics at the Alamo who owned SLAVES ...big time! I hate to ask this,.....I really,..really do, but I GOT TO ASK THIS FROM THE LEFT: What are we going to do about the two RACISTS on Mount Rushmore, and the Two famous RACIST DEFENDERS of the ALAMO WHO OWNED SLAVES? Will we burn the ALAMO down, or blow MOUNT RUSHMORE up? We have to do something if yall are serious, don't yall See? People will call yall liars if yall are not consistent! What are we going to do? Jim Bowie, Colonel Travis, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson! OLE General Grant had some too! ( The LEFT is serious about this, ...well I'm glad I enjoyed the Alamo when I did! )

PS See now what conservatives are talking about?

Bailey Jones

It's not about slavery, Charles - you have to judge people by the times they lived in. It's about treason. Slavery was widely accepted in those days. But treason was every bit as treasonous in 1860 as it is now.

And another thing - what aspect of the person is the statue portraying? I hear people say about Lee, for instance, oh - he wasn't just a confederate general, he fought in the Mexican war, and he ran West Point. I have no objection to a statue of Lee dressed in his Mexican war uniform, or his West Point uniform. But that's not the way he's portrayed. He's portrayed on his traitor's uniform on his big grey horse, Traveller. Similarly, if your town has a statue of the town founder, who also happened to be a slave owning traitor who took up arms against the nation he swore allegiance to, but the statue is him in his banker's suit as the town's leading businessman, I don't have a problem with that. If the statue depicts him in his traitor suit, or with a whip beating his slaves, then I do have a problem with that. It's all about context, and nuance, and that gets lost in these debates.

Charles Douglas

Mr. Jones, you got to be speaking for yourself, and if that is the way you feel, so be it, but I cannot believe that is the way everybody out there pulling down statues and burning American flags around their heads feels. Treason probably is nowhere in their vocabularies! Their crys are RACISTS and SLAVE OWNERS! I heard they tore down a statue of Francis Scott Key ...the Man who wrote the Star Spangle Banner the other day. Francis was a union soldier who they say owned SLAVES, ..and defended slavery against abolitionists. Ulysses S. Grant won the war against the South, and he owned slaves! They tore his statue down! Treason did not have a thing to do with all these acts! Now William Travis, and James Bowie, were SLAVE OWNERS, and they fought at the ALAMO, ..they are heroes, like Andrew Jackson, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson. They tore down Washington's statue the other day. Queston: What will the LEFT do about Travis and Bowie? What will the LEFT do about Mount Rushmore? Lasty,...What will the LEFT do about the ALAMO? Now we will see how real this crap really is! If this RACISM, HATE, and SLAVE OWNING ....movement is really real, or is it a ruse, ... or a slight of hand trick to get at the HISPANIC AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN vote! Another thing before I finish, the Devil, through Obama, has already chosen KAMALA HARRIS as the running mate to O'Biden! If I'm lying I'm Crying, & there are no tears on my cheeks! If you don't believe me go hide and watch! I prophesied this two months ago! Stacey Abrams, and the rest of those WOMEN never had a chance! Obama made Kamala the pick months ago! Wait and See! Obama is sweet on Harris! ......Just wait and See!

Samuel Collins III

https://savingplaces.org/press-center/media-resources/national-trust-statement-on-confederate-memorials#.XvFKNq9Onqs

Samuel Collins III

https://savingplaces.org/confederate-monuments-faqs#.XvFLIK9Onqs

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