Galveston County residents, groups and faith leaders are calling for an end to a federal immigration policy under fire for separating children and parents found entering the country illegally.

Critics of the practice marched in Galveston last week and were planning another protest later this month meant to raise awareness of a situation many view as a humanitarian crisis unfolding at the U.S. border, they said. At least one religious leader said he planned to share his opinion of the amoral nature of the policy with his congregation and encourage action.

Tens of thousands of parents and children, mostly from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, have in recent years been caught crossing the U.S.-Mexico border illegally with stories of fleeing drug cartels, extreme poverty and gang violence. The United States can’t send them back over the border unless they are Mexican citizens, and instead must refer their case to an immigration judge, according to The Associated Press.

The Trump administration in May announced a “zero tolerance” policy to take a harsher stance on illegal crossings at the Mexico border by prosecuting adults and, in turn, separating them from their children. The practice had apparently been in place for several months before the announcement, but came into sharper view in recent weeks.

An estimated 2,000 children are being held in facilities run by the Office of Refugee Resettlement within the Department of Health and Human Services, many in Texas, while their parents or accompanying adults face legal proceedings. Supporters, including Attorney General Jeff Sessions, have argued the policy serves as a deterrent to illegal immigration.

But the policy drew sharp criticisms from all corners, including many local residents who view it as cruel and an affront to American values.

‘IT’S VERY SERIOUS’

The country should find reasonable solutions to address immigration, but the separation policy is inhumane and ineffective, said Robert Quintero, deputy director for District 8 of the League of United Latin American Citizens, which covers 32 counties in southeast Texas.

“We’re all for abiding by the laws, but there’s no reason to tear apart families,” said Quintero, who marched on the Seawall last week against the policy. “Ripping up families just to get a point across or using them as a bargaining chip for building a wall is wrong. It’s inhumane.”

Local faith leaders weighed in Tuesday, calling the policy obscene and amoral.

“It’s a very serious, serious problem,” said the Rev. Ray Pinard, associate pastor at Moody Methodist Church in Galveston. “To separate children form their parents isn’t right. We can do a lot better.”

It’s a tradition of the United Methodist Church to offer guidance and opinion on different matters and encourage its members to “prayerfully come to their own opinion,” said Rev. Jerry Neff, senior pastor at Moody Methodist Church.

“We trust them to do the right thing,” Neff said.

‘CLEAR AND WISE COMMAND’

During a meeting Tuesday, church leaders had discussed the policy and their staff members’ moral stances on the issue, he said. Neff planned to raise the discussion with his congregation, provide his opinion and encourage them to contact their elected leaders to share their views.

“Our church is open to all people,” Neff said. “It’s up to my members to determine what they believe on this, but my opinion is I think it’s our moral responsibility to be the voice for those who may not have a voice.”

“It grieves me to see families being separated. I just don’t believe that reflects the values of this nation. Most of these people are not trying to enter illegally, they’re knocking on our front door seeking asylum. We have the right to expect a secured border, but this is not the way. This is obscene.”

The government policy felt vengeful and does not reflect the family values the country espouses, he said. That some officials had used verses of Bible Scripture to justify the policy was wrong, he said.

Sessions said many of the recent criticisms were not “fair or logical and some are contrary to law,” The Associated Press has reported.

“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order,” Sessions said. “Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves and protect the weak and lawful.”

‘CONGRESS TO VOTE SOON’

Taken out of context, the Bible has been used to justify atrocious acts, including slavery, but those justifications ignored the overall text, Neff said.

“You can’t frame an opinion and particularly government policy based on two or three verses of Scripture while ignoring the fact that the majority of the Scripture talks about how we are to care for the orphaned and widows, to care for the powerless,” Neff said. “I suggest Mr. Sessions go to some more Bible studies.”

Texas senators this week said they opposed the policy, but neither called for the Trump administration to immediately end the practice.

Sen. John Cornyn, a Republican, said Tuesday on Twitter opposition to “zero-tolerance immigration” was the same as “tolerance of illegal immigration without a plan to enforce the law.”

“We will provide both a way to enforce the law and a humane and compassionate family unification proposal for Congress to vote on soon,” Cornyn said.

Republican Sen. Ted Cruz said Monday he was announcing legislation this week to keep families detained together and increase the number of federal immigration judges from 375 to 750 to more quickly adjudicate cases, he said.

“Once their cases have been adjudicated — under my legislation, in no longer than 14 days — those who meet the legal standard should be granted asylum and those who don’t should be immediately returned to their home country,” Cruz said.

Rep. Randy Weber said the United States should strengthen its border policy, but refrained from casting blame.

“Let me be clear from the start: no one wants to see children separated from their parents,” Weber said. “We must secure our border first and foremost, and in doing so, we must shore up our immigration policy and eliminate loopholes so we are not back in this same situation years from now. In the process, we will do everything possible to keep families protected and together.”

‘THE DEMOCRATS’ FAULT’

Neither mentioned President Donald Trump in their statements. With backlash mounting — from former first ladies and national evangelical leaders — Trump has insisted Democrats are to blame for the policy in which children are being held in fenced cages away from parents, according to The Associated Press.

“I say it’s very strongly the Democrats’ fault,” Trump said Monday, citing more lenient policies that had not charged all migrants who had crossed illegally, according to The Associated Press.

While Trump’s new immigration policy doesn’t call for families to be separated, as pointed out by Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, the policy makes separations inevitable, according to The Associated Press.

In April, Sessions announced a plan: The United States would have “zero tolerance” for illegal crossings. If a person doesn’t arrive at an appropriate port of entry to claim asylum, the crossing is deemed illegal and prosecuted even if the person does not have a criminal history. With the adult detained and facing prosecution, any minors accompanying them are taken away, according to The Associated Press.

Trump has repeatedly said Democrats are to blame and cited a “horrible law” that separates families. But no law mandates that parents must be separated from their children at the border, and it’s not a policy Democrats have pushed or can change alone as the minority in Congress, according to The Associated Press.

But White House spokesman Hogan Gidley has said any crisis belongs to Democrats because they are the ones who rejected Trump’s initial immigration plan, according to reports.

‘NOT IN BEST INTEREST OF KIDS’

Lisa Blair, a Galveston restaurant owner, marched last week with dozens of other residents against the policy and planned to participate in future rallies, she said.

While she was the board chairwoman of The Children’s Center in Galveston, the center had taken in unaccompanied migrant minors, she said. She had a view then of the issues children faced who had fled violence in their home countries, she said.

“In most cases, they were traumatized because of what they’re leaving and they’re here and didn’t really have anyone” but the center, she said.

The children often needed social work, therapy and transitional services, which the center tried to provide with its available resources, Blair said.

But the situation was different because the children had arrived alone, she said. That the government would intentionally separate parents and children was an outrage, she said.

“This is not in the best interest of the kids,” Blair said. “I’m horrified at the thought of what’s happening.”

Marissa Barnett: 409-683-5257; marissa.barnett@galvnews.com

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(130) comments

Steve Fouga

I'll check back in the morning to read the comments from our vocal conservatives. I mean, how dare the GDN report on an administration outrage?!

Ray Taft

Just so you know. Liberal privilege dictates that liberals can feign outrage over anything a conservative does even if it is lawful or if a liberal did the same thing or worse. It’s a political game to them - they use people. So no surprise that liberals feign outrage over the Trump administration enforcing the same law that Obama enforced.

Gary Scoggin

Steve.. like you I wait with baited breath and in anticipation of amusement for the Regulars to parrot the Administration talking points. I would offer to rebut them with facts but introducing perspective around here seems to be a fool’s errand.

George Croix

What facts of that errand make it worse for the current Pres than previous, Gary?

George Croix

C’mon. Speak up. Share the amusement.

George Croix

C’mon now. Make your case. Or just imply what you consider the people who are unworthy of your errand running are.
Good thing selective indignation is not itself a crime huh.
C’mon. Back your talk.
Speak up

George Croix

Uh huh

Gary Scoggin

Actually I had stuff to do all day and I’m just getting back. Even us old retired guys are busy sometimes.

Gary Scoggin

I haven’t read through all 96 comments but I imagine they track what you hear about everywhere else.

The difference is the current administration’s policy (just changed a couple of hours ago) that leaves no prosecutorial discretion to handle illegally attempting to enter the country as a civil mater instead of a criminal one. Once into the criminal system, removal of the children is mandatory. That’s the difference between this President’s policy and those of his Democrat and Republican predecessors.

I’m glad I could clear that up for you.

George Croix

Steve it looks like your bell ringing to signal outrage depends on who’s pulling the rope.
Say it ain’t so. 🙂

Rusty Schroeder

The law is the law. The locals mentioned should do relief efforts in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador if they want action. Maybe Lisa should open up a Sunflower Café down in Guatemala and put some of these families to work so they don't have to travel 2000 miles to enter the US,,,,, ILLEGALLY. Look at Germany and France right now because of open border policies. This lunacy depicted by the liberal press is hypocrisy at its finest, turn the tables 4 years and there was no problem. You don't see Mexico housing these immigrants do you. The system might not be the finest, but until another is reached and agreed upon it's what we have and have had since George W. Bush signed it into law. Apparently they are getting fed and are without fear of getting killed by their own government right now. That's a lot better than we are doing in this country in many parts, Chicago is a prime example.

Gary Miller

Correction! Trump is enforcing the law passed by Democrats and signed by Bill Clinton in 1997. Bush didn't enforce it. He provided "family" shelters to keep families intact. The liberal courts closed his family shelters by claiming they were illegal because the kids were held WITH their parents for over 20 days. No outrage by Democrats or "lying media" while Obama separated three times as many families as Trump. Play grounds, game rooms,TV, separate clean beds, three square meals a day, classrooms and free healthcare is not the cage the "lying media" claims. Good conditions the first time in their lives.

Carlos Ponce

BIG HUGE LIE. It's not Trump's policy. It comes from the Supreme Court, the Ninth Circuit Court and the ACLU: (Janet Reno, Attorney General, et al., Petitioners v. Jenny Lissette Flores et al.-1993), (Flores v. Meese- 1997)

According to US Congressman Henry Cuellar (DEMOCRAT representing Texas Congressional District 26 (around Laredo) the practice of separating children from their parent(s) occurred under the Obama administration (See CNN interview with Henry Cuellar conducted by Fredericka Whitfield).
Separation happens only if officials find that the adult is falsely claiming to be the child’s parent, or is a threat to the child, or is put into criminal proceedings. So the US government was and still is acting on behalf of the child's best interest. Why keep a child with a child sex trafficker? Same policy under AG Loretta Lynch as with AG Sessions. Same policy under Obama's DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson as with Trump's DHS Secretary Kirsten Nielson. Jeh Johnson falsely claimed separating children did not occur but pictures and documents and Rep. Henry Cuellar (D)' s statements show otherwise.
The widely circulated pictures of 'children in cages" were made in 2014 during President Obama's tenure.
Does Lisa Blair want children kept with the child sex traffickers who brought them? I don't think so.
Does Lisa Blair want children kept with imprisoned parents? I hope not.
According to Manuel Padilla, chief of the Rio Grande Valley Sector of Customs and Border Protection, a known MS-13 gang member and killer came to the border with his 1-year old in tow. Keep them together?????
Does Lisa Blair want children kept with adults with no familial relationship? "Just come to the border with a child, any child and they'll let you in." Not good.
What does Lisa Blair want? Seems like TWO things. Belittle Donald Trump for enforcing decades old US Law and OPEN BORDERS FOR ALL!!!!!

Gary Miller

It is the "lying Media" that used photos from Obama's 2014 cages and claimed they are current. Why didn't the "lying media" use those pictures in 2014? Because they claimed every thing Obama did was perfect.

Carlos Ponce

My cousin Robert Quintero says “We’re all for abiding by the laws, but there’s no reason to tear apart families.”
Families are torn apart EVERY DAY because of legal proceedings. So do we let every convict free to be with his children or do you want the child incarcerated with his parent?
Separation of families:
There are only THREE reasons this happens.
1. No familial relationship can be established.
2. The parent endangers the child.
3. The parent is subject to legal proceedings.
SAME EXACT reasons given during the Obama administration. But you ignored it when it happened during his administration.
"there’s no reason to tear apart families"
Robert should address his remarks to the parents of over 10,000 who sent their children unaccompanied to the US border.
If you ask the children they'd rather be home with family and friend in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, etc. But no one listens to them.

Carlos Ponce

From the Josh Lederman AP The Daily News, Huntington, PA March 15, 2014
"Separation of families, is in part, an incidental consequence of Obama's 2012 executive order that removed the threat of deportation of kids brought to the U.S. illegally but did not extend that protection to their parents."
Why didn't you march in 2014? Same policy, same law, same separation of families.
"What is not clear is how far Obama will go - or what options are even available to mitigate the pain without consent from Congress. A former law professor, Obama has insisted that he's already 'stretched my administrative capacity very far.' 'I cannot ignore those laws any more than I could ignore any of the other laws that are on the books,' Obama said last week in a virtual town hall with Spanish-language media outlets."
https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/obama-vows-to-examine-deportations-1661741
To the marchers:
If you cared for the children you would have marched four years ago. Looks like you hate Trump more than you care for the children.

Carlos Ponce

“This is not in the best interest of the kids,” Blair said. “I’m horrified at the thought of what’s happening.”
Where were you when this was happening during the Obama administration?
It's the law, Lisa, it's the law, not who is president.
HInt:
"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." - Abraham Lincoln

James Bowles

great response and point on

Ron Shelby

Even if a bit of this political spin istrue,..that does not make it right. And this is DEFINITELY ramped up in just the last 2-3 months. It did not happen like this even a year ago so something else has changed significantly. It's just not morally right.

Rusty Schroeder

It's called the human trains that have been coming for the last 6 months to a year. Where have you been Ron? What do you suggest we do with these families, give them all a travel trailer and food and clothing vouchers? Worked real good after Katrina, ask Houston.

Paul Hyatt

Wonder why the progressive left and its lapdog media hounds were not reporting this when the Obama administration was doing the EXACT same thing using laws that the progressive left had passed? Why the "Fake" outrage now?

Gary Miller

Ron! You didn't care when Obama did it because the "lying media" didn't tell you about it.

Christopher Smith

Thanks GCDN for reporting on this. Ripping these families apart is being done in our name and we all share the blame for it. This practice is shameful and needs to end. We can enforce our laws without causing unnecessary pain and suffering. For those interested in finding ways to help these families here is a good list https://www.texastribune.org/2018/06/18/heres-list-organizations-are-mobilizing-help-separated-immigrant-child/

George Croix

You left out the illegal in illegal immigrants.
Oversight?

James Bowles

Of course the fake news paper would leave out ILLEGAL...they have an agenda

Rusty Schroeder

New term, asylum seekers, can't make it up.

Paul Hyatt

Wonder why the progressive left and its lapdog media hounds were not reporting this when the Obama administration was doing the EXACT same thing using laws that the progressive left had passed? Why the "Fake" outrage now? The media did not report it much back then because they were protecting the rotten Obama administration.... How sad that people do not even know what is happening around them....

Bill Cochrane

Where is the outrage concerning the parents that bring their children along when the break the law? If an American family brings their children with them when they shoplift, the parents are detained and charged, and their children are taken by Child Protective Services. In most cases, like the children in this issue, the children are placed in a much better environment than which they came from. At first the media showed the children in a clean facility, new clothes, TV’s, video games, food etc. Now that has changes to children crying. I call BS.

George Croix

Does anyone know of any American citizens detained for breaking our laws who are allowed to take their children to jail with them?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Another manufactured two faced outrage.
There’s probably some reason for no outrage when the last two Admins. did the same thing. Wonder what it is??

Gonzalo Gonzalez

Carlos, many posts. Seems like you're trying to convince yourself more than others that this is anything other than a cruel and useless strategy.

George Croix

It is something more. It’s a two faced strategy to gin up a crisis selectively aimed in one direction. It works because of who all it’s aimed at.

Carlos Ponce

No, Gonzalo, teaching the uninformed and misinformed has been my life. I know the facts. Just trying to spread TRUTH.

George Croix

ps:
What time are the protest going to be held by the same folks for US citizen kids removed from Mom when she is jailed?
I’d like to see who shows up.

Lisa Blair

In most cases when parents bring children across the border, they are seeking asylum, which is legal. They work through the legal process. Some are allowed to stay, some are deported. The same facilities that are being used to warehouse the kids now could be used for families, keeping them together. When asylum seekers were released to sponsors while awaiting legal hearings the cost to tax payers was far, far less than this current policy.
There’s no justifiable reason for treating children legally seeking asylum inhumanly.

Josh Butler

I thought they were just separating potential criminals and those deemed to be using children to get across the border, when they aren't really their children.

Josh Butler

in other words, those crossing the border illegally.

David Doe

So far, the numbers aren't adding up. Over 80% of the asylum cases processed have found that these children Are Not with parents! These numbers show that most people either don't know the Truth or are lying or both. Please don't make erroneous statements as it makes you look uninformed.

Josh Butler

Maybe I was mistaken. I agree separating asylum seekers is not right. But going back to catch and release is not the solution, either.

Josh Butler

No, I was not mistaken. Legitimate asylum seekers are not being separated. There is so much misinformation out there, it's sickening.

Bill Cochrane

Lisa, this not about anyone seeking legal means of coming to the United States. This is about people from countries that are trying to enter illegally. They are breaking the law. Not a new law.

Paul Hyatt

ROFLOL.... If you knew the stats on that you would not say what you did. Most of the ones seeking asylum do NOT come back and can not be found unless they break the law again, then they might be sent back unless a progressive judge is handling the case and then they will be given freedom.... I do wonder why the leftists of this nation lock their doors on their cars and their homes? After all if we are not allowed to lock down our borders then why should you be allowed to lock your doors? A nation without secure borders soon ceases to being a nation.... Look at Europe!

Rusty Schroeder

I was waiting for that terminology, asylum seekers. If they are truly asylum seekers, why cross countries to enter the US illegally? Fill out the paperwork in their home country and wait for the appropriate response then come to the country legally. Are you advocating another Cuban Refugee crisis ? I bet these children and parents are being treated and housed better than those that were encamped in tent cities.

George Croix

No. LEGALLY seeking asylum requires entering at a specified port of entry not just wading across anywhere. Anyone following the law to seek asylum is NOT separated from family.
Illegal entry is not the same as legal entry no matter how much the difference escapes too many.

Josh Butler

Does anyone think that maybe some of these children are being used as pawns for the Obama Era catch and release policy? Of course, the fake news media is completely one sided on this issue, failing to report the complexities. It is more complicated than ' just quit separating families'. Are we supposed to keep releasing potential criminals into our population, while we go through the legal process, when the prospect of relocating them again is not a given? Shame on the media in this country.

George Croix

Releasing into the population is bad enough. But then we have to spend finite bucks to school the illegals. THAT law needs changing. I note with some of Gary’s amusement no great push by the usual suspects to RETURN the untold thousands of illegal alien unaccompanied minors to the loving arms of their families.
There’s a reason for that

Josh Butler

I read somewhere that there were up to ten thousand minors who were unaccounted for during the Obama administration due to catch and release.

George Croix

They’re all being sponsored and provided for by the advocates of them. Aren’t they???🙄🤔🤑🤕

James Bowles

Kate Steinle was permanently separated from her family by an illegal! Thousands of Border Agents and Police have been separated from their family because they were killed by illegals. Also how many innocent have been killed by illegal drunk drivers? Too many!

James Bowles

Most of the kids are coming with MS-13 members, not parents. All parents have to do is go to a port of entry rather than sneak across. We do NOT need more illegals

James Bowles

How come its those that love abortions that are now hating children being separated temporarily from their families? Hypocrites?

Claudia Burnam

If the so-called asylum seekers were actually seeking aslum they would report back to for their court hearings and not disappear in the population E G Wiley

Rusty Schroeder

Congratulations Marissa, your article will be the highest commented on since Drag Queen Reading Hour at the Library.

George Croix

I’m still waiting on the ‘facts’ that can be introduced to the discussion proving the opposition to law breakers wrong. Popcorn is getting cold.
Oddly, from a political angle, guess which Party refuses to even vote on reforming immigration policy unless it involves amnesty?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Now, take another guess at how many of these ‘separated’ kids are not even the children of the ‘parents’ there are ‘ripped’ from?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Now, guess which Party shut the government down over immigration but now refuses to even vote on abill unless it is amnesty.
Anyone?
Anyone?
I think the law SHOULD be changed and actual kids of illegal alien parents allowed to stay with them. But the illegals should also be denied entry and IMMEDIATELY turned back across our border. That would be better
Unite nearly a FULL page total newsprint devoted to support for lawbreakers over citizens. Hasn’t been that much total touting hugely improved jobs and unemployment figures. Guess why?
Anyone?
Anyone?

Gary Miller

George! You just offered the solution to the problem. Get rid of Democrats.

George Croix

No.
We don’t need uni- think in leadership. Opposing ideas are useful. Unwillingness to have any? Not so much. The optics should convince more than a few independents that doing nothing and not allowing anyone else to either cas become the new definition of ‘competent’, and reject it. In a sane world.
Well , heck, I just killed my own case....

George Croix

One more thing for Steve and Gary and Lisa and the GDN reporter and the ‘advocates’ quoted in the article - how many of these folks are you personally sponsoring and thus guaranteeing they’ll return for the court hearing?
I expect, but could be wrong, that you’ll all signal 1, but use your middle finger to do so.

Alan Waters

As a retired law enforcement official, I must thank Carlos Ponce for his well researched comments. What do you think should happen when we arrest a single mother for shop lifting at Walmart with her 6 month old child in a stroller. Should we separate the child and mother? Should CPS separate the mother from the child and provide proper care until an investigation into care for the child is concluded? This really isn't any different. An adult is KNOWINGLY committing a crime while having their children in their custody and care. What is different?

Rusty Schroeder

Donald Trump and liberals that can't stand that America finally has a leader who is enforcing written policy, that's what's different.

George Croix

Absolutely. Had we been saddled with Madam President we’d have what Kerry said in a speech he gave was the eagerly awaited ‘world without borders’.
Now, we just get the denigration for giving a dam_ about our country more than others.

Gary Miller

The difference is political.

George Croix

Right this minute Speaker of the House Ryan at the behest of the
President announced that TOMORROW the House will vote to change the immigration law related to separation of children and provide funding of more detention centers for ACTUAL families. The legal way. We’ll see WHO votes for it without trying to demand full amnesty. THEN if the House does pass the vote we’ll see if Schumer even lets Senate Dems vote for the very answer he claims to want.
Look for Pres Trump to allow actual families to be detained together by executive order if the vote fails the House and when it fails the Senate.
Even that is better than just not enforcing our laws when we don’t like them

Rusty Schroeder

If that happens I can't imagine the spin the democrats will come up with next. Basically voting against what they are arguing for, popcorn still in bag next to microwave.

George Croix

Rusty it’s already happened repeatedly as EVERY attempt to redo immigration law has been stopped cold by the Senate minority that also shut the government down due to what they claimed was the need to reform immigration. NO WAY to make this left wing rank hypocrisy up!!!

Steve Fouga

George says: "Look for Pres Trump to allow actual families to be detained together by executive order if the vote fails the House and when it fails the Senate."

It looks like he's going to do it ahead of the vote, knowing the vote will fail. He could do it without an executive order, simply by ordering Sessions to rescind the zero-tolerance policy. But an executive order is more dramatic, so that's what he'll do. Good for him; it's the right thing. Now the administration will have some breathing room to create a rational plan, should they decide to do so.

Carlos Ponce

It will have be temporary because it contradicts an ACLU, 9th Circuit Court and Supreme Court agreement known as the Flores Settlement Agreement (1997). The agreement states that minors cannot be held longer than 20 days. Since their "parents" are held longer that means their kids will now also be held longer. ACLU isn't going to be happy. They want EVERYBODY set free immediately, NO BORDERS.

George Croix

Why would the vote fail? Isn’t it the right thing to do?

George Croix

The GDN staff supplies the titles for Letters to the Editor.
Note the one they supplied to a June 12 letter:
“We're soon to be a nation based on whim, not law”
Gotta love it .....😏🤔🙄

Steve Fouga

Wow, this is even more pathetic than I expected!

Legions of local conservatives defending a cruel, unnecessary, and incompetently planned Trump Administration policy. I'm not exactly surprised by the arguments, just by their volume and vehemence.

You guys certainly didn't disappoint! [cool]

George Croix

Pathetic, Steve?
Right word....wrong direction

Rusty Schroeder

No mirrors in your house are there Steve?

George Croix

Not to worry though. As usual the hearts will over rule the heads and the ‘children’ will be allowed to stay with their ‘families’, real or imagined.
Of course, the DEAD kids of American families separated from their parents by illegal aliens will not be given the same opportunity.
Pathetic?????
Revel in own yourself-righteousness, Steve, as you accuse others.
You benefit from the fact that emotion nearly always beats sense when the only goal is to win.




Steve Fouga

Self-righteous! Pot calling the kettle black? [cool]

A competent administration would have gotten its ducks in a row BEFORE enacting a zero-tolerance policy. They would have foreseen the obvious outcome that families would be separated in great numbers, and anticipated the backlash. They would have written and easily passed legislation that overrides or rewrites the Flores consent decree so that parents (or MS-13 members) entering illegally could be maintained in custody together with the children for a period long enough to sort out the criminals from the legit asylum cases. Then they could have deported families as units. Knowing the numbers that a sudden zero-tolerance policy would generate, they would have built commensurately sized facilities. They would have created a plan to track and reunite families in criminal cases that required deportation.

Those are things a competent administration would do. My conclusion is that either they are incompetent, or that they did this on purpose to "rally the base" ahead of midterms, which, by dint of the moral outrage I see from GDN conservatives, is clearly working. Or they did it to attempt to force Democratic acquiescence to bill that includes a border wall, something that will never happen, thus using children as pawns for political gain.

So, George says, I'm self-righteous for decrying a policy that is both unkind and unnecessary, and reeks of administrative incompetence. I say I'm just being a good American by expecting more from my government than ready-fire-aim buffoonery.

George Croix

Of course.
A good American.
Which now is defined as the means must be tailored to facilitate the most popular end?
Then the other good Americans like yourself in the Legislature will rally and support a legislative fix in the House and Senate on this.
Good to know.

Steve Fouga

Not if it includes funding for a border wall.

George Croix

How about walls on their homes?
Are the leftists in favor of those?
So, as a nation we're like the woman who refused an offer to have sex with a man for 25 cents, but accepted for a million dollars. To the first she replied "What kind if woiman do you think I am?" and to the second the man replied "We' ve already determined that, now we're just negotiating price'.

Steve Fouga

It depends on how much the walls cost.

Carlos Ponce

"incompetently planned Trump Administration policy."
Funny, I did not know Trump had anything to do with the Reagan administration, the Bush administrations, the Clinton administration (The court case leading to this policy is JANET RENO V JENNY FLORES), or the Obama administration. The idea that Trump and Sessions dreamed this up is a MYTH perpetuated by the Leftist media.
"You guys certainly didn't disappoint!" Common sense and Letter of the Law NEVER disappoints.
Trump doesn't like the policy either so as Abraham Lincoln said, "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."
Can he do it on his own as Chuck E. Shumer mandates? He could try but that that would be met by another Leftist filed lawsuit filed in a Leftist court with a Leftist Judge presiding. Best leave it up to CONGRESS.
Note to Steve: Janet Reno was Bill Clinton's Attorney General. Remember WACO and Elián González?

Steve Fouga

Good grief. I guess you didn't read my post. I'm way ahead of you, Carlos.

Carlos Ponce

Flores v Meese is a 9th Circuit Court proclamation. Not easy to "overwrite". The ACLU was responsible for the case. They aren't going to take it easily and will probably put efforts to overwrite into litigation for years to come. Flores v Meese took 9 years to settle, ran the course through the Reagan, Bush II and almost all of the Bill Clinton administrations.

Carlos Ponce

PS, although Jenny Flores tried going into the US in 1985 and the case wasn't settled until 1997 there were 9 not 12 years of litigation involved.

Jim Forsythe

If we are going to take custody of children, we must know whereabouts.
"But while testifying before a Senate subcommittee on April 26, Steven Wagner, acting assistant secretary for the Administration for Children and Families, said the Office of Refugee Resettlement was not able to account for the whereabouts of 1,475 migrant children it had placed. "
Jeh Johnson, who served as homeland security secretary under Obama, said he did not separate children and parents despite the enormous surges of unaccompanied minors and families that came across the border in 2014 fleeing Central American violence.
"In three years on my watch, we probably deported or returned or repatriated about a million people to enforce border security. One of the things I could not do is separate a child from his or her mother, or literally pull a mother from his or her arms," Johnson said “I just couldn’t do it.”Obama’s top domestic policy adviser, Cecilia Muñoz, said the Obama administration did consider a similar policy, but determined it heartless.
"The administration's decision to separate families is a new, discretionary choice," said Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse, another one of several high-profile Republicans to speak out in recent days. "Anyone saying that their hands are tied or that the only conceivable way to fix the problem of catch-and-release is to rip families apart is flat wrong. There are other options available to them."

Carlos Ponce

"Jeh Johnson, who served as homeland security secretary under Obama, said he did not separate children and parents ..." He's lying. Congressman Henry Cuellar (D) from Laredo says it happened along with documentation and pictures.

George Croix


“If we are going to take custody of children, we must know whereabouts”
C’mon ..... whereabouts are the thousands / millions released into this country who never show back up as the law calls for?
Answer: Don’t care because the only goal is let more in

Jim Forsythe

Any Senators, against separating families .
"The administration's decision to separate families is a new, discretionary choice," said Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse, another one of several high-profile Republicans to speak out in recent days. "Anyone saying that their hands are tied or that the only conceivable way to fix the problem of catch-and-release is to rip families apart is flat wrong. There are other options available to them."
Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, announced Monday he would introduce legislation that mandates keeping migrant children with their parents when they're detained at the border.
Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Republican from Utah and the longest serving GOP senator in history, called the practice of separating families at the border "wrong."
"While I firmly support enforcing our immigration laws, I am against using parental separation as a deterrent to illegal immigration," tweeted GOP Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas. "My concern, first and foremost, is the protection of the children."
Louisiana Republican Sen. John Kennedy described the situation this way: "I think the whole thing is a hot mess." "I support the practice of arresting people who break the law," he said, but he added that he would like children to stay with their parents. "That would be my strong preference."
"That's an issue of great concern to me. And we're still looking for ways to do more to keep families together in this legislation," Florida Republican Rep. Carlos Curbelo told reporters last week.
Others.
Jeb Bush– called the policy “heartless,” on Twitter, a direct response to President Trump’s assertion on that same medium that “children are being used by some of the worst criminals on earth as a means to enter our country”

“Children shouldn’t be used as a negotiating tool,” Bush responded. “[Trump] should end this heartless policy and Congress should get an immigration deal done that provides for asylum reform, border security and a path to citizenship for Dreamers.”
Anthony Scaramucci, a former advisor to President Trump, said Saturday he believed the policy was not humane and called on Trump to “[fix] this problem.”


"All of us who are seeing images of children being pulled away from moms and dads in tears were horrified," he told reporters Monday. "This has to stop."
Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine: “What the administration has decided to do is to separate children from their parents to try to send a message that, if you cross the border with children, your children are going to be ripped away from you,” she told CBS yesterday. “That is traumatizing to the children who are innocent victims. And it is contrary to our values in this country."
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.: "President Trump could stop this policy with a phone call," he said on CNN. "I'll go tell him: If you don't like families being separated, you can tell DHS, 'Stop doing it.'"
House Speaker Paul Ryan: “We don’t want kids to be separated from their parents,” he said on Thursday.
Former first lady Laura Bush: “I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart,” she writes in the Washington Post. “These images are eerily reminiscent of the Japanese American internment camps of World War II, now considered to have been one of the most shameful episodes in U.S. history.”
Evangelical leader Franklin Graham: "It's disgraceful, and it's terrible to see families ripped apart and I don't support that one bit,” he told theChristian Broadcasting Network.
The conservative New York Post: “Stop breaking up families at the border.”

Carlos Ponce

Much of the remarks you post is just political grandstanding.
No, it cannot be stopped with just a "phone call" as Lindsey Graham suggests. He knows better. It is contingent on Congress to deliver immigration reform. But no one wants to go there because what they come up with will not please everybody. Congress has never been one to rush into this territory prior to a midterm or general election. Trump is pushing them to take a stand.
Since the EO violates the terms of the Flores Settlement expect a lawsuit.

Jim Forsythe

Whatever your take on this issue , contact your Senator, your Representative, President with your point of view.

George Croix

Now? Or wait till November😀😀😀😀😀😀

Jim Forsythe

Now.

Carlos Ponce

Pictures of Galveston Progressive Connection and LULAC strolling down Seawall Boulevard in protest.
https://www.galvnews.com/blogs/in_focus/collection_f57239b5-8f1e-59dd-94c2-c3d7492dda16.html#2
"Speakers at the march urged attendees to call their representatives as much as possible and to vote in the mid-term elections in November."
So, it's about the MID-TERMS! Well at least they got a nice walk out of it. Good exercise.

George Croix

As expected the politics wins again. Pres. Trump just said he’ll sign an executive order ‘children fix’ today.
Here’s hoping no harm comes to any American citizens from ‘the children’ but when it does anyway I certainly hope it’s to the ones who so badly wanted them here and not to anyone that believes in the rule of law.

Steve Fouga

Hahaha! If this were a competent administration, you could have had both: rule of law and no unnecessarily cruel policy. Their instincts are right in wishing to close the border, but their planning... not so much.

Carlos Ponce

The "cruel policy" as you put it. dates several decades over several administrations: Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama. Were they ALL "incompetent"?????

Steve Fouga

Nope. The cruel policy I refer to is the one invoked April 6, 2018, by the Justice Department -- the "Zero Tolerance" policy of the Trump Administration. Inexcusably poorly planned and implemented. Only incompetent fools, or politicians trying to make a splash, would roll out such an impactful policy without months of preparation. The Carter, Reagan, both Bush, Clinton, and Obama administrations were all far more competent than the Trump administration, which are a bunch of amateurs.

Good instincts on immigration, but lousy execution. Glad he's revoking the separations, though. It's the right thing to do.

Carlos Ponce

Zero tolerance is not cruel. It simply means enforcing all the laws on the book, equally and fairly without prejudice. If a law isn't going to be enforced, why have it?

Steve Fouga

Sometimes zero-tolerance is good practice, but not always. Separating families is cruel. There were ways to avoid it, but the administration chose not to.

Gary Scoggin

Zero Tolerance, in this case, was the removal of prosecutorial discretion, not ignoring the law.

Carlos Ponce

The law is the law. Despite what you think, President Trump KNOWS he's not above the law and to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore. Obama talked that talk but he did not walk that walk.

Carlos Ponce

Court rulings have the same effect as law.

Gary Scoggin

Carlos, were you paying attention? The law provides options for prosecutors. The recent policy closed off one of those options.

George Croix

But it is not cruel to send your kid alone across Central America and not cruel to our own kids to load up the schools with illegals..
Is there a new dictionary out that redefines ‘cruel’?
How about some sympathy for the millions in THIS country not getting 30 grand a years spent on them

Carlos Ponce

"Carlos, were you paying attention? The law provides options for prosecutors."
I m not referring to prosecutors. I am referring to the court cases Reno v Flores and Flores v Meese and the resulting Flores Settlement issued by the 9th Circuit Court.

George Croix

Fair enough.
Explain the more competent immigration approach of the last Admin. , or the one before it. Would that be the come one come all approach, or the turn them around at the border orders counted as deportations approach, or the support for sanctuary cities approach, or simply the go with the polls and optics approach?
All of the above?
Perhaps just use the perception is reality approach...like Hollywood.

Steve Fouga

Hmmm. Would I rather have an ineffective but well-executed approach, or an effective but poorly executed one? Pick your poison. I guess if I were willing to take the political heat, I'd rather have the effective but bumbling one.

Personally, I think the Trump Administration did everything right except for the family separation part. If they had just found a legal way to circumvent Flores first, and prepared for the big influx of detainees, they would be hailed as heroes for stemming illegal immigration without resorting to a $25B wall! But, of course, they didn't.

I tell you, George, this administration is egregiously incompetent. Trump is strictly an idea man. Some of his ideas are dead on, but he needs backup because often the devil is in the details.

George Croix

Let’s see if he gets any American embassy personnel killed then blame a video before we compare incompetencies....

Gary Miller

President Trump issued an executive order to detain the children of legitimate families until court immigration hearings have been completed. Children not with real families will continue to be handled according to the Bill Clinton law as it was written. It's likely children detained with real families will not have as good facilities as they had before because the family detention shelters were forced to close by Democrat judges during the Bush administration. Bottom line is: there are too many Democrats in congress hell bent on open borders. If you want real immigration control don't ever vote for a Democrat again. EVER.

Gary Miller

May I offer a solution for family or single asilum seekers. Trump should order border control to give them a bus ticket home and an appointment at their local U.S. state department office where proper applications for asilum are available. No detention centers needed, no family separations needed, no catch and release needed.
PS Democrats filed suits to force return to family separation policy before Trump signed the Executive order. They love family separation issue for political purpose.

George Croix

That sure does expand the righteous factor. Make everything OK.
Think the Senate could muster 60 votes for even that 🤔

George Croix

Never mind. I located that more competent approach.
“Under the Obama administration, such families were usually referred for civil deportation proceedings, not requiring separation.”
Which means released into this country on their promise to return in several months for a ‘hearing’.
Very competent when the goal is import as many illegal aliens as possible.

Gary Scoggin

FWIW, the Obama administration deported more people than any Administration before it.

Carlos Ponce

Because they returned again and again until they weren't caught.[whistling]

George Croix

Complete horse stuff, Gary, that’s what ordering the Border Patrol to release illegals apprehended and turn them back toward the border and count EACH as a ‘deportation’.

Don Schlessinger

Wow, 86 posts. I'm not going to waste time reading the whining, but will offer a magic fix. Go ahead and accept everyone coming across the border while we are building the wall. Build all the facilities needed for families, including food, medicine and education. That way all the libs and illegals will be happy. Of course this is going to cost a BUNCH of money. So to afford the support all the people coming into our country end sending any financial support to the represented countries. When the wall is finished the size of the hoards crossing the border will be reduced, and America can get on with what's going on elsewhere in the world.

Don Schlessinger

OOPs, meant to say---So to afford supporting all the people coming into our country end sending any financial support to the to the countries represented by the illegals.

Steve Fouga

Of the now 87 posts, 74 are FOR the cruel and poorly managed family separation policy, and the rest are AGAINST. I guess the president agrees with the rest.

Look on the bright side: He can claim he ended his attorney general's inhumane policy, and now has a legitimate reason to fire him! Win-win for Mr. Trump. [cool]

George Croix

Is it also in inhumane and cruel to separate children of American citizens from them when they are detained for criminal activity?
If not, why not?
Should Americans with children who break the laws be released on their own promise to come to trial because they have kids?
Is there some reason Non-citizens should be treated better than citizens?
NOW the judge that ruled kids of illegals can only be confined with them for 20 days is not expected to change that. Which, of corse, is exactly what all the ‘protesters’ want - just turn them loose in this country.
AND I just listened to 4 Dem congressmen say they won’t vote for anything that does not allow immediate release of ALL illegals being detained.
The moral high ground isn’t quite the same real estate it used to be.

Steve Fouga

It's an open question whether the people entering are committing a crime. Inefficient or slow processing of asylum cases leads to people crossing the border any way they can. Whether and for how long children are separated from their American parents depends on the crime, length of detention, etc. The border cases are being poorly processed. They need to keep the families either together or in close proximity until they figure out whether crimes are being committed or "families" are MS-13.

I'm for secure borders, but the securing should be done according to American values and virtues.

Carlos Ponce

If they do not enter through a Port of Entry then they cannot be seeking asylum. Asylum seekers must enter through a Port of Entry. They KNOW that.
"U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions is telling asylum-seekers to present their claims at the ports of entry along the U.S.-Mexico border to avoid prosecution under his 'zero-tolerance' crackdown on illegal entries." Arizona Central
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/immigration/2018/06/18/sessions-asylum-seekers-go-border-ports-but-its-not-easy/710796002/
Border activists claim it's not that simple. Yes, it is.

George Croix

An open question to who?
Walking across at other than an established port of entry IS against US immigration law.
There’s no virtue in picking and choosing which laws to follow and no value for Americans to increase the load on taxpayers by allowing an endless supply of the citizens of some other country who are the worst equipped to be productive for this one.
All talk...no walk
Brought to you by the same people endlessly decrying overcrowded and underfunded schools
In 3 weeks when the ‘97 ruling only allowing 20 days detention is up the usual suspects will celebrate the release into the country of another group of thousands of economic drags and future government assistance recipients and anchors around the school systems neck
More of that competence thing....and so nice for Americans

George Croix

ps:
Nice deflection and avoidance of answering the question about separation of kids from Americans
Surprise...

Steve Fouga

You didn't read the whole post, but I admit I glossed over that part... American children are placed into a well-established system of care when parents are detained, and every effort is made to unite the children with family or friends, or, failing that, child protective services. They aren't shipped all over the country to detention centers. Also, in the United States, when a person is charged with a crime, they have a right to due process -- whether they are a citizen or not. This means, among other things, they are given the opportunity to post bail, or have an advocate post bail. If they are released, they can have their child back, unless they pose a threat to the child. As far as I know, these detainees are NOT being granted that opportunity, despite there being plenty of folks willing to post their bail...

Randy Chapman

He shouldn't have caved on the policy. The policy should have been maintained as a deterrent to illegally entering this country. If they knew they'd be separated and deported separately, they'd think twice. Now, I'm sure word will spread that the border is wide open. What we need is more internment camps to house them while we get the planes lined up to take them back home. Old Walmart stores best usage! The United States does not need, nor do we wan't more unskillled illegal mouths to feed while they drop anchor babies waiting to get shipped back home.

Jarvis Buckley

No such thing as Democrat party.
Socialist party now the second party.

Jarvis Buckley

Democrat party - party of Peter Fonda......

George Croix

I read it, but the gloss reflected off the lenses of my trifiocals...
Anyway, the illegals are placed into a system of care spending more bucks and offering more services and treatments to each than our OWN citizen children who live at the poverty level and even many above it get. It was the 'parents' of these 'children' who 'shipped' them clear across another country.
Bail? For a bail system to be applied they'd have to be released into the country until trial/hearing, and thus a mockery of any immigration intended to control their entry in the first place.
But THAT is the goal wanted anyway, isn't it.....
Plenty willing to post bail for them if allowed?
Thus plenty willing to just LOSE multi millions when the illegals do like 97% oif them do and never show back up?
Sure....waiting in lines with checks and pens in hand.....
A whole bunch of them were 'protest' marching in Galveston and writing articles and posting in the newspaper and just waiting to sponsor and bail out and pay for their 'causes'
.....hahaha, I belive it was.....

All moot at this point, as after capitullating to The Great National Outrage favoring illegals over our own, and never minding it was the exact same thing the Nobel Prize Winner did until he started Catch and Release to help his 'flexibility', the usual suspects have ALREADY declared it's not enough.
No. Shouldn't EVER detain illegal children. Shouldn't arrest ANYONE within 100 miles of the borders. Should immediately RELEASE all detainees until the immigration laws are revised, BUT we won't help do that because it isn't a talking point for the midterms.
Eventually Pres. Trump will realize that his opposition will NEVER be satisfied, even if he cured cancer they'd B that he hasn't yet cured the common cold.
And that, is where it is.....

Steve Fouga

"the illegals are placed into a system of care spending more bucks and offering more services and treatments to each than our OWN citizen children who live at the poverty level and even many above it get."

Surely you're not advocating welfare for our own poverty-stricken children! Just kidding...

In my opinion, the amount of spending on the facilities, food, etc., for the detained kids doesn't make up for being separated from their parents. I'm no child psychologist, but intuitively that's how I feel.

As for Trump realizing that his opposition will never be satisfied, I don't think he cares. He is a narcissist, caring only about personal praise, wealth, and aggrandizement. Some of his policies are good for America, some bad, but none were created with America in mind.

George, generally I'm a pragmatist like you, dispassionately reacting more to results than to the how and why. I even voted for a second Bill Clinton term (after voting for Bush in '92), because his policies were demonstrably favorable to the economy, particularly the company I worked for. But in this president's case I find it very hard to separate Trump-the-results from Trum-the-person.

That said, I think most of the results "so far," as you said in a recent post, are fine, well within the range of what could be expected of any presidency -- excellent economy and reduced illegal immigration are clear high points. But looking at the big picture, I keep thinking more about the "so far" than about the results themselves. To me, his administration and its policies feel like a house of cards. Neither the good stuff nor the bad stuff seem sustainable. On top of that, he's detestable. I bet most of the "opposition" you speak of feels the same.

George Croix

Steve, way I figured things when firefighting, a brief rest with plenty of cold water and a cold Diet Coke beat the heck out of continuous smoke and fire and somebody telling me the problem was one thing when I was standing in front of the problem and it was something else.
For a while, the rewards are piled higher than the 'flexibility', and that's fine with me...
ANYTHING is better than the Queen B ee...
You guys should have worked for some really lousy personality people who could deliver rather than the pretend to be nice guys who needed a road map when going to P.
Might have made an poutlook difference

Steve Fouga

I could say that you, George, should have worked in a profession that gave you a more strategic perspective, and that you have no idea the @ssholes I worked for. Certainly people who run toward danger have a different worldview from those who sit in an office or a factory. But, we were both in the situations we were in, and learned our lessons as best we could.

By the way, I worked 30 years or so, off and on, for/with a guy who was so much like Trump that I can almost predict what Trump does before he does it. The big difference was that my dude was smart, well-read, and funny, besides being one of the world's best airplane designers. And he treated me very well for the most part. All that made him barely tolerable. I loved airplanes so much that I hung in there...

George Croix

Yeah, we're all products of our surroundings to some degree.
Me, I'd still rather work for and with anyone I personally dislike greatly but will work and produce, than a good 'ol boy who only talks a good show.
Maybe it's because I've been physically and economically harmed more by 'good guys' than by unpopular ones.....nobody wants to get burned because of an incompetent 'buddy' or be forced to pay for someone else's mistakes.
Heck, I dunno...it is what it is
So, I'll agree that I'm right, and you do the same......for yourself, I mean...
Or, did I....
[beam][whistling][cool]

George Croix

ps:
My strategic perspective involved keeping myself and the people I was responsible for from getting hurt, and doing what I could to improve our working conditions and productivity, and passing along lessons learned to the upper ranks and my fellow supervisors and employees...make the place better after learning what really would do so.
Those are pretty important issues, as without those precursors, any longer term strategy is doomed to failure as it's based on expectations of what should happen rather than what actually has happened/does happen. Failure to include real life experience lessons learned in the official business strategic plan is a major reason we blew up a process unit and 15 people died and 142 others forever changed.
Like I said, we're products of our own experience.
Mine was that the guys smiling at me and telling me how great their conference room constructed strategic plan made by people with zero field experience would make things, after ignoring people they did not like or considered not worth listening to, were nowhere to be found in the hours after the big bangs and the fires and rescues and recoveries.....
This all ties in with the subject, because it's very important to plan based on what will happen rather than just what we want to happen.....

Steve Fouga

Can't argue with that.

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