The president should offer an apology for his lack of political skill, but not his principles.

Candidate Trump had no qualms calling out Islamic terror and rightly criticized Democrats when they failed to do so. President Trump is as inarticulate as any president of my lifetime, but no one can credibly state that he has a racist bone in his body.

Imagine the left’s outcry if Republicans had a confirmed KKK member as a U.S. senator as the Democrats had in Robert Byrd. However, the CEOs who resigned to protest the president’s comments revealed that they place politics over country as unashamedly as any politician. Those positions were offered to them so that they could provide expertise in matters that might improve America’s future. They were not political positions. They were asked to serve America.

Their abandonment of that opportunity shows that they are willing to prioritize partisan politics over the country’s welfare. These CEOs should be condemned — not praised.

Norman Pappous

Galveston

Locations

(150) comments

Steve Fouga

"Their abandonment of that opportunity shows that they are willing to prioritize partisan politics over the country’s welfare. These CEOs should be condemned — not praised."

Or more likely, they saw they were wasting their time dealing with an unthinking narcissist in the White House, and chose a graceful way to exit. They should be neither praised nor condemned; they made a practical decision.

Plenty of sources have reported on Donald Trump's racism; in fact he's been successfully sued for it. If you don't believe the sources, that's your right. He certainly sounds like a racist when he talks, and his speech and actions are all I have to judge him by, so... a racist as far as I'm concerned.

Carlos Ponce

"Plenty of sources have reported on Donald Trump's racism..." Not really.
A stretch of the truth, Steve. The only lawsuit was against Trump Management Corporation, a joint venture initiated by his father in 1973, 44 years ago. United States v. Fred C. Trump, Donald Trump, and Trump Management, Inc.. The case alleged that the Trump Management Corporation had discriminated against blacks who wished to rent apartments in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. The outcome? Send its list of vacancies in its 15,000 apartments to a civil-rights group. The New York Times article headline reads " Trump promises to end race bias" but that was Chairman of the Board Fred C. Trump. Donald was in his mid 20s when the apartments were made but he was President of the company when the lawsuit was filed.

Mark Aaron

"Plenty of sources have reported on Donald Trump's racism..." Not really.

Seriously Carlos? You don't think what Trump said about a federal judge, or Mexicans, or his ban on Muslims isn't bigotry? How very sad for you. Seriously. That degree of delusion is not healthy.

Carlos Ponce

The Federal judge had been working pro bono representing illegal immigrants in courts. He should have recused himself. His motives were in question. As a Hispanic of Mexican parentage I would suspect his impartiality.
What Trump said about criminal Mexicans did not apply to all Mexicans. So you did not hear Trump say "some are good people".
"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
Is this bigotry? No it's the truth. As an American of Mexican descent I know this is true.
When does Mexico SEND people?
If you get in a legal criminal dilemma in Mexico just offer the policia a mordida (BRIBE) and he'll let you go. If it is a serious problem you have two options: (1) go to prison or (2) they'll send you to the frontera (border) and you cross so they don't have to mess with the criminals. Sometimes this involves a mordida as well. Mexican prisons are in sad shape. You don't want to go there so you go to the United States instead.
The "ban" on Muslims was temporary patterned after the one Obama instilled. Not all Muslims were banned, but everyone (even non-Muslims) from countries without a stable central government. A vetting process for people from these countries would be instilled. Part of the plan was to PROTECT the Muslims already here. There is much sectarian violence in the countries named. By opening the door to those those not properly vetted we'd be importing their problems leading to Muslim on Muslim attacks. The plan would also keep out Jihadists bent on terrorism. Bigotry from Trump? No. It was not considered bigotry when Obama did it and his administration named the countries in question.
Delusional? No. Informed? Yes.

Mark Aaron

I agree Steve. How anyone in good conscience can deny his blatant bigotry is beyond my understanding. You would have to be willfully ignorant.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

Kelly Naschke

We could just as easily label YOU a racist Steve.

Steve Fouga

That's certainly your right, Kelly. In my case, though, you have nothing to judge me by other than my posts. In Trump's case, we have decades of video and sound, stories, lawsuits, etc. Like all of us, public figures are judged by what the do and say. But their doings and sayings are a lot more visible.

If you think you have enough info to label me a racist, so be it.

Kelly Naschke

You are a white guy in your 60's that's into aviation. You are as racist as it gets.

Steve Fouga

At first I thought you were serious about my being a racist, but now I see you're being funny. I'm relieved.

I see you've been snooping around. Now why would you do that? That's alright, though; we all do it. Otherwise how would we know who we're talking to?

I admit it, I am white. And as Kelley surmised, in my 60s. 65, to be exact.

What I don't understand is that a connection to aviation would make somebody a racist.

Pray tell, Kelley. Please list a few reasons why being "into aviation" would make me a racist.

Carlos Ponce

" In Trump's case, we have decades of video and sound, stories, lawsuits, etc. " I suggest more research and not just what the Liberal media nor websites put out. He is a flawed man but so was David in the Bible.

Mark Aaron

"Pray tell, Kelley. Please list a few reasons why being "into aviation" would make me a racist."

Yes, I would like to hear the answer to that too.

Mark Aaron

"We could just as easily label YOU a racist Steve."

Maybe if you were a demented liar you might.

Kelly Naschke

Aviation is dominated by white men. Pretty simple correlation Steve.

Mark Aaron

"Aviation is dominated by white men. Pretty simple correlation Steve."

Poor, poor Kelly, reduced to pretending such an absurdity is somehow proof of racism. How very sad for you.

George Croix

If Pres. Trump is one, that'll make the second one in a row.

Kelly Naschke

Now that was a zinger George. You could not have been MORE correct!

Mark Aaron

"Now that was a zinger George. You could not have been MORE correct!"

Well, at least you are making yourselves easy to identify, I guess.

Mark Aaron

"If Pres. Trump is one, that'll make the second one in a row."

Wow, you are out there beyond Pluto, aren't you George? How genuinely sad for you that you would harbor such profound hate and bias with zero credible cause to justify it.

Carlos Ponce

In terms of the Universe "beyond Pluto" isn't far at all.[beam]

Mark Aaron

"If Pres. Trump is one, that'll make the second one in a row."

George, the only people I have ever heard try to call President Obama a racist are White supremacists and the most zealous of rightwing sycophants. There is no record of anyone else making such a hateful and dishonest claim. I am genuinely curious, what could possibly induce you to make such an outrageous claim?

Or are you still too afraid of me to respond?

Carlos Ponce

" the only people I have ever heard try to call President Obama a racist are White supremacists and the most zealous of rightwing sycophants"
I've actually heard African Americans denounce Obama after he promised much for them but did not deliver. They said he only catered to the "Liberal White Elites" and his "white half". Before you shoot out a reply to this remember, I'm only the messenger.

Mark Aaron

"I've actually heard African Americans denounce Obama after he promised much for them but did not deliver. They said he only catered to the "Liberal White Elites" and his "white half". Before you shoot out a reply to this remember, I'm only the messenger."

That's not how you spell "monger," Carlos.

If this is so common surely you can find some examples to confirm this dubious claim, what with your crackerjack researching skills and all. Let's see them.

Carlos Ponce

Like I posted "I'm only the messenger".
Like I posted "I heard". This was from a conversation and I'm not going to post their names. I would lose their trust if I did. There are a lot of haters out there who do not tolerate views that differ.

Kelly Naschke

We can label YOU a racist too Mark.

Mark Aaron

"We can label YOU a racist too Mark."

Yes, or you could claim I was a Martian, but that would be imbecilic too. I'm not the one defending and apologizing for racists like Trump, Kelly.

Kelly Naschke

Mark..you are a white guy in your 60's.....no doubt your parents were white, as are your children. You are the embodiment of white privelege. That seems to be the standard for being labeled a racist these days. You sir, are a racist.

Mark Aaron

"You are the embodiment of white privelege. That seems to be the standard for being labeled a racist these days. You sir, are a racist."

Maybe that's the way they do it in Dupeville, Kelly, but reasoned people rely on evidence. Sorry that isn't obvious to you.

Kelly Naschke

It's also been brought to my attention that you routinely used the "N" word in your military days Mark. Care to explain?

Mark Aaron

"It's also been brought to my attention that you routinely used the "N" word in your military days Mark. Care to explain?"

You mean "non-com?" That was the proper nomenclature as we were taught in Basic Training Kelly, or did you not serve and not know that?

Kelly Naschke

Sorry pal..... it's an unnamed source that claims you used the OTHER N word on numerous occasions Mark. Apparently you made numerous racial remarks about numerous other races. Interesting that you come here spouting your nonsense when your own closet is full of skeletons.

Mark Aaron

"Sorry pal..... it's an unnamed source that claims you used the OTHER N word on numerous occasions Mark."

What word are you talking about, Kelly?

As for sources I am happy to name mine. I don't make accusations that I can't back up. Obviously you do, however. Kind of pathetic, that. Some people might even use the C word to describe such a practice. Not that I would.

George Croix

Racist blah blah blah.
The word is so overused, imo. it's become as meaningful about 99% of the time as 'nyah nyah nyah na nyah nyah your momma wears combat boots', and thus takes away from real cases. People actually victimized...now...in real time....not the phony coattailing on a century ago....get marginalized too much precisely because the lifetime victims bunch and just can't function without their favorite deflection.
It's a versatile word, used as both verb and noun, bludgeon and shield, accusation and inuendo, reality and fantasy, and by both the honest and dishonest, with the latter unfortunately being in the majority.
Since calling a spade a spade has fallen into PC disfavor, the door has been wide open for the type of people who cannot function on their own without acting exactly like what they claim to abhor.
I have no idea why good people allow themselves to care what such people think or say, other than for the entertainment value.....

Kelly Naschke

My point EXACTLY

Kelly Naschke

Thank you George. You are truly a man of wisdom.

Mark Aaron

"Racist blah blah blah. The word is so overused, imo."

Get that a lot do you George?

Carlos Ponce

Some person said Trump's words about Mexicans and Muslims were racist.
Mexican is not a race. Mexico is a country composed of people from different and mixed races like the United States.
Muslim is a religion composed of the followers of Allah, Muhammad and the Koran. Individual Muslims may belong to any race.
Yes, Racist is overused and misused.

Mark Aaron

"Some person said Trump's words about Mexicans and Muslims were racist. "

Most of the people on the planet came to that conclusion, Carlos. There are plenty of polls and thousands of credible news stories which attest to that fact. I guess you were too busy watching Fox News or listening to Rush Limbaugh to have known. Perhaps it is time to reconsider your sources.

Carlos Ponce

"Most of the people on the planet came to that conclusion, Carlos." Only the ignorant ones. I have relatives on both sides of the border who say Trump is right. However those south of the border are surprised that he said it. Being politically candid is frowned upon in Mexico. They want you to be PC - or else. Do we want that for this country? Some fascists do.[scared]

Mark Aaron

"Only the ignorant ones."

So, Carlos, you believe most of the world is ignorant, but not you? Tell me, are you familiar with the Dunning–Kruger effect?

Mark Aaron

" I have relatives on both sides of the border who say Trump is right."

Well Carlos, I have Hispanic relatives on both sides of the border too and not a one of them likes Trump. Every one of them I have talked to about it thinks Trump is a vile racist and they hate his guts.

Carlos Ponce

Well, my relatives are professionals, dentists, doctors, church goers, educated people. From your description it looks like hatred runs in your family.

Mark Aaron

"Last night he said "I love you because you are a Black man". Taken out of context it sounds racist. In context it does not."

Given Trump's extensive record of lying it sounds like simply more insincere pablum for his easily duped base, Carlos.

Carlos Ponce

You believe what you want to. It's still a free country despite fascists telling others what to think. How long before even that is not allowed? [unsure]

Mark Aaron

"From your description it looks like hatred runs in your family."

Hatred of bigotry does indeed run deep in my family, Carlos. Thank you for acknowledging that. I am quite proud of that fact. Wish I could confidently return the favor.

Mark Aaron

"It's still a free country despite fascists telling others what to think. How long before even that is not allowed?"

I guess you would have to ask Trump that question.

Carlos Ponce

Trump allows free speech. It is the haters on college campuses and those calling themselves Antifa who will not tolerate any thought that deviates from their way of thinking.

Mark Aaron

"Yes, Racist is overused and misused."

Perhaps you would find 'bigot' more fitting.

Mark Aaron

"Trump allows free speech. "

Trump is terrified of free speech Carlos, that's why he refuses to speak live to groups who aren't hand picked groupies. Just as he is terrified of giving news conferences lest he be called on his endless lies and hypocrisy.

Carlos Ponce

"Perhaps you would find 'bigot' more fitting."
definition of bigot : a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions
That definition does apply to the Liberals.

Mark Aaron

"definition of bigot : a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions That definition does apply to the Liberals."

So, by the way you choose to define it if you are intolerant of pedophiles or rapists you are a bigot, correct Carlos?

My definition would include "intolerant without justification." That would seem implied. The Cambridge dictionary says: "a person who has strong, unreasonable ideas."

George Croix

It's a shame that the strident sounds of discord were not raised when our Nobel prize winning ex-Pres. was touring the world apologizing for this nation, but ironically it turns out he was right...just a little premature for the current banana republic type activity.....
Of course, the America Bad bunch 'resistance' would disagree....
I don't care.....
Until they incite another civil war.....

Mark Aaron

"It's a shame that the strident sounds of discord were not raised when our Nobel prize winning ex-Pres. was touring the world apologizing for this nation"

How's the Kool-Aid out by Pluto, George?

Steve Fouga

George and Kelly, I maintain the word has real meaning, or you wouldn't react so strongly when the president is called a racist.

You see it it as an insult, and you probably feel that if he is indeed a racist deep down in his heart -- even though you don't think he is -- then that would make him unfit to be president.

Kelly Naschke

Steve....I played football at Ball High in the 80's. There were all of about 5 white guys on the field. You knew you were accepted when the black guys called you the a N word and in turn were "permitted" to use the word yourself in certain situations. Consequently it loses its derogatory connotation. As does throwing around the R word. You don't know Trump and you don't know if he is really a racist or not. So throwing around the R word when you have no actual knowledge of the mans true character and integrity just makes you a parrot of the lefts talking points and attempt to delegitimize his presidency.

Steve Fouga

I see what you're saying, Kelly. I don't know the man personally, so I can't truly know how he feels. But he ACTS like what I consider a racist.

I don't have to parrot leftist media, I've actually seen him and heard him acting like what I consider to be racist. I've watched dozens of speeches and rallies and read his tweets. If he's not a racist, he shouldn't do and say things that make a lot of people, not just me, think he is. As president, his words carry great import. Sometimes he's hard to take seriously, but on the other hand he's the effing president! If he's just kidding, like your aviation comment, he needs to stop, because his rhetoric, whether you believe it or not, is divisive.

You and George feel like you "get him," and you can't understand why so many of us don't. It doesn't matter. Perception becomes reality. If most of us think he's a racist, he may as well be a racist.

Mark Aaron

Well said, Steve. If only more people around here were as thoughtful as you.

Carlos Ponce

How much of your "perception" is based on fact and how much on Leftist Media Spin and DNC talking points? Last night he said "I love you because you are a Black man". Taken out of context it sounds racist. In context it does not.

Mark Aaron

"You don't know Trump and you don't know if he is really a racist or not."

Are you seriously trying to pretend you can't judge a politician by their record Kelly? Boy, talk about desperate to avoid the truth. How sad for you.

Kelly Naschke

Lets have specific examples Mark.

Mark Aaron

"Lets have specific examples Mark."

Of what?

Mark Aaron

"Lets have specific examples Mark."

You can start here, Kelly:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-and-race-decades-of-fueling-divisions/2017/08/16/5fb3cd7c-8296-11e7-b359-15a3617c767b_story.html?utm_term=.9a52ebe9a3c5

Carlos Ponce

Washington Post = FAKE NEWS.
How about giving an unbiased purveyor of news instead. This one lost its credibility tears ago.

George Croix

What do you call 'strong', Mr. Fouga, and why do you assume that?
I don't see any such insult...that's YOUR assumption laid onto me without even asking...incorrect, but yours.
You say the word 'racist' has real meaning...I fully agree....which is why in my opinion, and why I said it, it's overuse just for shock effect or by the usual suspect victim card players or keyboard heros or 'protesters' acting as bad or worse than what they are protesting marginalizes REAL racism. That was my point.
You do not have to agree.
I'm just answering, exactly like I would face to face. No yelling, no in the face. Just exchanging opinions.
I try to do in these forums exactly what I'd do sitting across the table with you or anyone else, drinking a cold Diet Coke and with any luck munching some really crisp fries.
I don't automatically think your motives and comments are out of anger....how about the same courtesy.
If I'm mad, it's usually evident.....guessing is common in children's games, so we adult's should just ask, rather than assume.....
I welcome your questions....usually.....[beam]

Steve Fouga

Hey George, I didn't really understand this post of yours until I went back and read mine, and now I'm still not sure. I want to make it clear that I wasn't saying that you and Kelley feel insulted; I was trying to say that you feel it's an insult to call someone a racist (in this case Trump) because you fully understand that the word does have meaning: when somebody calls someone else a racist, it is insulting, or at least most would view it as such -- even if the word is thrown around too much.

As far as the word "racist" being overused, I can say with confidence I seldom use it, except when referring to the president. I certainly have never considered you or Kelly to be racists, based on your comments.

George, maybe "strongly" wasn't the best word I could have used; after all, your posts are not as harsh as a kick in the nuts, and carry considerably more humor. What I mean by strongly is quickly and viscerally, with some punch. I bet it's NOT just like you'd respond in person, unless it was you being insulted. If you rushed to the president's defense, Diet Coke in hand, I bet you would do it in a more measured manner, in person.

For my own part, my response on almost any of our usual topics would likely be more measured in person. I could hear the nuance in your voice, read your expressions, and not have to yell for my words to be heard over there in Texas City.

George Croix

But, I'm not rushing to the President's defense specifically, but rather to ALL who get labeled unjustly. Insults are only effective coming from people one respects...who cares what the others think...I don't.
Anyone paying attention knows I don't even like Pres. Trump as a person. He may be the biggest racist since his predecessor was left office last January for all I know.
But I do know that labeling is a tactic of intimidation, and a lot of people, for some reason, let themselves fall for it. If one finds out he can say whatever he wants, even if false, and get his way or silence others, that's bad, and says all we need to knwo about the accuser.
I don't know how to be any clearer, so anyone can just continue to infer otherwise. I don't care.
Mr. Fouga, I do everything 'with some punch', am a naturally intense person honed by trying to keep myself and others alive for a few decades, and used to making rapid decisions...."I yam what I yam..."
"I bet it's NOT just like you'd respond in person,..."
Then, you'd lose your bet, Mr. Fouga. Character is not about doing one thing in private or at a safe distance and another face to face. That's cowardice, or at least simpel meally-mouthness....EXCEPT for when the dreaded "do these jeans make my rear look big" question opr some similar comes up....I'm not suicidal.
Don't believe it, ask Jim or Gary. They're both close enough to you phylosophically that you'd probably believe them, and I know them both to be honest enough to say what they think....
Or, time permitting one fo these days, you can find out for yourself....I'll buy the Diet Coke. You bring Wavy Lays....[beam]

Steve Fouga

"But, I'm not rushing to the President's defense specifically, but rather to ALL who get labeled unjustly."

Fair enough, but this thread is about Donald Trump. Forgive me if I didn't read your mind.

"Insults are only effective coming from people one respects...who cares what the others think...I don't."

I don't either.

"Anyone paying attention knows I don't even like Pres. Trump as a person."

I know; I AM paying attention. That's why it's confounding that whenever someone insults Trump, you have to insult Obama or Clinton. Doesn't make much sense to me.

"But I do know that labeling is a tactic of intimidation, and a lot of people, for some reason, let themselves fall for it."

Well, I don't label Trump as a racist on this forum to intimidate anybody, and I doubt it has that effect. I don't even think racism is Trump's biggest flaw; far from it. I should point out that you've labeled Obama a racist several times on this forum.

"Character is not about doing one thing in private or at a safe distance and another face to face."

I'm on board with that. I have complete confidence in my own character, as I'm sure you have in yours.

"Don't believe it, ask Jim or Gary. They're both close enough to you phylosophically that you'd probably believe them, and I know them both to be honest enough to say what they think...."

I don't need to ask them. I believe you. Still, I have a feeling I'd experience you differently in person than on the forum, not because you'd BE different, but because I'd hear you differently. I feel the same about most of the folks on internet forums. Also in person I'd have absolutely no desire to discuss politics. I'd rather hear refinery and hunting anecdotes. I can talk politics on the forum. Besides, I think we're within spitting distance politically.

"Or, time permitting one fo these days, you can find out for yourself....I'll buy the Diet Coke. You bring Wavy Lays.... "

I'll make the time. I've just been waiting for the invitation. I know you're in the book.

[smile]

George Croix

"Doesn't make much sense to me."
It's simply a written/verbal response to my hypocracy BS detector going BEEP BEEP BEEP loud and fast when the exact same people that I KNOW give a pass to the past but dig in deep now.
Fair is fair......in life, it's better to be known as fair, than to be popular...imo....
Lemme get my family all healthy again, get my deer season preps done, and down the road we'll sit down and call spades spades....or not, if they're actually something else..... [whistling][smile]

Mark Aaron

"and you probably feel that if he is indeed a racist deep down in his heart -- even though you don't think he is -- then that would make him unfit to be president."

George, Kelly, and Carlos seem to far invested in their unsupportable conceit to ever admit to that racism despite the mountains of evidence before them. How you penetrate that fanaticism is beyond me. Education and repetition is the best course I can suggest. Hopefully they will get tired of humiliating themselves one day.

Carlos Ponce

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. - Old Earth Proverb

Mark Aaron

"Washington Post = FAKE NEWS. How about giving an unbiased purveyor of news instead. This one lost its credibility tears ago."

Define what you mean by fake news, Carlos. Is that any news which disagrees with your extreme rightwing bias?

Charlotte O'rourke

I'm not looking for apologies. I'm looking for results .... positive steps and action that reflects his promise to be a unifier, a great unifier.

So far, the President hasn't unified the country, his party, or even his White House staff.

Trump should start with this unification promise at White House and party, and then work on issues that will unify the entire country - start with infrastructure and jobs.

George Croix

[thumbup]

Bill Broussard

[thumbup]

Mark Aaron

Good points Charlotte.

wmaceo@att.net Maceo

Charlotte you are point on! And TRUMP should stop saying things that pit one against the other. He should stop advocating violence among Americans. He should begin healing by setting the example. He says he hasn't a racist bone in his body. Every bone in his body is a racist and the skin that covers him. No doubt in my mind. It amused me that people defend Trump from being racists. That's because Trump is just like those who defend him and those that defend Trump do not like being called RACISTS. The problem with that is being a RACIST is exactly what TRUMP and his supporters are. They are just as delusional as Trump.

Carlos Ponce

"Every bone in his body is a racist and the skin that covers him."
What has he done that is racist?
"and the skin that covers him" Now that's a RACIST statement! What ever happened to "people should not be judged by the color of their skin"?

Jarvis Buckley

Mark if your illness is as serious as you claim. I have no reason to believe it is not. Your time is limited. No need to make enemy's . Time to make friends.

Mark Aaron

"No need to make enemy's. Time to make friends."

I've lived my life speaking out against bigotry and injustice, Jarvis. I'm proud of that fact and would like to go out continuing that work. But I take your point and appreciate your thoughtful comment.

George Croix

"A group of anti-Trump demonstrators used gas canisters, rocks and bottles to assault police Tuesday night and create havoc at what officials said was mostly a peaceful protest in Phoenix.

Video captured by a local reporter also shows a smoking object being thrown at police while hundreds of officers attempted to keep order at a rally after President Trump's speech at the Phoenix Convention Center had ended."

Showin' some love...'progressive' style......[beam]
Do they wear two masks, or leave one face uncovered.....[rolleyes]

Mark Aaron

"Showin' some love...'progressive' style...... "

More like showing outrage at a lying President who encourages hate and bigotry. A President almost certainly guilty of collaborating with the enemy. A son and son-in-law of the president who unquestionably, by their own words, collaborated with the enemy against the United States. Traitors. All Americans, not just Progressives have good reason to be outraged, George.

Carlos Ponce

Looks like you had an extra gulp of Liberal kool-aid. The above is nothing but Democratic Party talking points. If you believe it, fine. That's your problem. But they have no basis in reality.

Mark Aaron

"Looks like you had an extra gulp of Liberal kool-aid. The above is nothing but Democratic Party talking points. If you believe it, fine. That's your problem. But they have no basis in reality. "

Trump crimes are no Liberal invention, Carlos. Liberals did not appoint Director Mueller to catalog Trump and his family's treason. Liberals did not write the emails his son did admitting he and Jared were meeting with the Russians to try to affect the US election. Liberals did not try to mislead the public about that meeting, Trump did. Liberals did not try to set up secret meetings in the Seychelles to create a back channel to Putin for Trump where he could avoid the eyes of the CIA and NSA.

The list goes on and on. New revelations still continue to dribble out. http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/politics/donald-trump-rick-dearborn-email-russia-investigation/index.html

What is your excuse for Trump this time Carlos? Why are all of these non Liberal folks trying to indict Trump?

Carlos Ponce

More Democratic Talking points. BORING!!!![yawn]

Mark Aaron

"More Democratic Talking points. "

That is not how you spell "credible news," Carlos.

Jarvis Buckley

Love you Mark.

Jarvis Buckley

Love our President also

Steve Fouga

"Love you Mark. Love our President also"

[thumbup] Coolest thing I've ever read here.

Mark Aaron

"Love our President also"

Which one?

Carlos Ponce

The president of the United States, whether it is Trump, Obama, GW Bush, Clinton, GHW Bush, Reagan, Carter.........
If the current one is not your president you must not be an American.
And the President Trump said the other night he loves you.[love]

Mark Aaron

"If the current one is not your president you must not be an American. "

Unlike you, Carlos, I took a solemn oath to honor and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The evidence is becoming overwhelming that Trump and his family have engaged in treason against the United States and the Constitution. Would you have me disavow that solemn oath Carlos? Just pretend it doesn't exist like you and a few other rightwing zealots here would do? Trump is my president for the moment, but that doesn't mean he deserves my respect or allegiance. My allegiance is to the United States and its Constitution, not to traitors.

Carlos Ponce

Treason - Bet you can't prove it. Just another Democratic Party talking point. BORING! [yawn][yawn]

Mark Aaron

"Treason - Bet you can't prove it."

That is left to others with far more resources than I have. You have heard of Director Mueller, haven't you Carlos. He is just one of many currently investigating Trump for suspected treason. Are you now going to pretend they don't exist?

Jim Forsythe

If one goes to a protest,  march , sit in or other events, you must be ready to , be injured, go to jail , be killed. If you are not that committed, then you should not be at the event.
Is anything, important enough in your life, to protest for or against ?

"But Mayor Greg Stanton (D) went out of his way to note that those arrested did not appear to be affiliated with any of the organizations that had brought peaceful counter-protesters to the site in large numbers.
“We have no reason to believe that anyone who engaged in assault of a police officer were part of any organization that were encouraging people to come down here,” Stanton  a anything that important that you would said.

George Croix

"If one goes to a protest, march , sit in or other events, you must be ready to , be injured, go to jail , be killed."
Wow....!!!
And that's just from the exposure to the left wingers 'love'.
Imagine if America was a Police State......!!!!!!

[beam][wink][rolleyes][whistling][innocent][smile][blink][sleep][whistling]
Range of emotions....there's no emoticon for here for head shaking....

No, it's not worth dying for a 150 years past civil war.....
Maybe if more lived in the present than perpetually trying to do so in the past, they'd find a better use for such energy....
Fewer excuses usually lead to more successes....

Mark Aaron

"No, it's not worth dying for a 150 years past civil war..... Maybe if more lived in the present than perpetually trying to do so in the past, they'd find a better use for such energy...."

The current dispute over Civil War monuments is far less about long past history, George, and decidedly more about current problems of racism and the glorification of that obscenity which perpetuates bigotry today. Bigotry encouraged and enabled by Trump and publicly displayed by the KKK and White Supremacists in Charolettesville. Bigotry supported by Confederate apologists who would pretend those displays are germane to understanding history. They are no more relevant to history than statues of Hitler would be in Germany today. Denying that obvious fact is willfully sustaining that bigotry.

Carlos Ponce

"Is anything, important enough in your life, to protest for or against ?"
Yes, I participated in a gathering to protest Roe V. Wade in Galveston, Texas in front of he Galveston County Courthouse (the old one) and years later in a protest march down Highway 6 in Hitchcock to protest the same. All was peaceful. But no one anticipated injury, jail or death because we're in Galveston County.

Mark Aaron

"Yes, I participated in a gathering to protest Roe V. Wade in Galveston, Texas"

So you don't believe in a right to privacy, Carlos? You believe you know better than a woman what she can and should do with her body? Yet, as a Conservative, you claim to abhor government interference. Is that correct, Carlos, or do you not consider yourself a Conservative? Or is this more about imposing your religious dogma on others?

Carlos Ponce

"You believe you know better than a woman what she can and should do with her body?"
What about the baby's body? It has a similar but different DNA structure to the "mother". So you're saying one human has the right to terminate the life of another. And if you say it's not a baby, not human that is wrong. He or she has the DNA structure of a human so that makes it human. Conservatives value human life. We also believe in the Constitution, some Supreme Court justices don't. Amendment 5: "No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." The baby is a person. "A person is a person, no matter how how small." That is MY belief. Are you trying to impose your pro-abortion dogma on me? The Jews in Nazi concentration camps would sing the song "Die Gedanken sind frei" ( Thoughts are free). Thoughts are free, don't impose yours on me. That would be fascist. You are entitled to yours, me to mine. Don't be a NAZI.

Carlos Ponce

And is assembling in front of the Galveston County Courthouse or marching down the highway imposing religious "dogma" on anyone????? No.

Mark Aaron

"So you're saying one human has the right to terminate the life of another. And if you say it's not a baby, not human that is wrong. He or she has the DNA structure of a human so that makes it human. "

Wrong. That organism is a potential human. Until it is viable outside of the womb it is only a parasitic collection of cells with the potential to become something.

" Are you trying to impose your pro-abortion dogma on me?"

No one is trying to force you to have an abortion. That is your choice. You, nor anyone who believes like you, are being forced to do anything. You are the one trying to force your arrogant unproven religious assumption on others.

Carlos Ponce

"parasitic"? you must be speaking of only yourself. Babies are gifts from Heaven.[innocent]

Mark Aaron

""parasitic"? you must be speaking of only yourself. Babies are gifts from Heaven. "

I believe in provable science. I use the terms appropriate for the discussion from a scientific frame of reference.

Carlos Ponce

Of course you do! [rolleyes]

George Croix

After checking into the latest outlandish CNN and even ESPN silliness, and tossing in the last several months of what amounts to a virtual nationwide near complete media meltdown and conversion from news reporters to propaganda minsters, I don't think they'll ever be called upon to apologize for sticking to their principals either...they'd have principals to do so...[whistling]

Mark Aaron

"what amounts to a virtual nationwide near complete media meltdown and conversion from news reporters to propaganda minsters"

They are all wrong and you are right, is that correct George? Well you and Trump. Right?

Carlos Ponce

George is right. It's called common sense.

Mark Aaron

"George is right. It's called common sense."

No, Carlos, it is called delusional arrogance or willful ignorance.

Mark Aaron

"And is assembling in front of the Galveston County Courthouse or marching down the highway imposing religious "dogma" on anyone?"

If that is your intent of course it is.

Carlos Ponce

"No, Carlos, it is called delusional arrogance or willful ignorance"
No, George is stating common sense.

George Croix

they'd have ????

grrrr....stupid keyboard....[smile][smile]

they don't have.....

Not close enough

Jim Forsythe

It can not happen in Galveston County. hope you are right , but it can happen anywhere.
What would stop it from happening in Galveston or Houston.
If you go to one of the events, it could happen to you..

Protest are going on in Houston, and one man tried to blow up a statue.
Instead, he could have placed the explosives' in a place to hurt and  kill the protesters  , just as in Boston Marathon.
The Boston Marathon. was not a protest , but shows how easy it could happen.
 
Was. Andrew Schneck a Republican or a Democrat , or just a miss guided person?
Is he ready to go to jail, as this is his second time doing this?

Schneck, charged Monday with attempting to maliciously damage or destroy property, was ordered into federal custody pending a court hearing later this week. If convicted, he could face up to 40 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

How did he grow up.
School acquaintances described him as an awkward loner who struggled with social interactions.
"I can't even think of a single friend he had, to be perfectly honest," said one former classmate at Memorial High School, where he was known as "Ace" for his initials.
During their senior year of high school, the former classmate said, Schneck wrote a "manifesto" dedicated to some of the school's popular girls, decrying how their boyfriends treated them and saying he could have done better.
After high school graduation in 2010, the two lost touch and Schneck's classmate didn't hear news of him again until charges were filed against him several years ago.
"None of this is surprising," the former classmate said. "He seems a bit disconnected from reality."

George Croix

Jim, I don't that wannabe bomber is officially on any political platform plank....[wink]
"He seems a bit disconnected from reality."
Him, too, huh....there's a lot of that going around....

Mark Aaron


'"He seems a bit disconnected from reality.""
"Him, too, huh....there's a lot of that going around...."

Ain't that the truth?

George Croix

"President Trump granted a presidential pardon to Joe Arpaio, the former Sheriff of Maricopa County, Ariz., on Friday.
Arpaio, 85, was recently found guilty of criminal contempt for defying a judge's order to stop traffic patrols that allegedly targeted immigrants.
He had been charged with misdemeanor contempt of court for allegedly willfully defying a judge’s order in 2011 and prolonging his patrols for another 17 months."

I'm glad to see that Pres. Trump stuck to the principle that illegal entry into this country is cause for action to prevent it, not for 'judges' to ignore the law and create ideological straw men so they can kiss up to an ideologue President.
I certainly hope Arpaio next gets the Medal of Freedom...
Or, maybe a Nobel, for what he might do someday.....

Carlos Ponce

I dislike that GW Bush waited until his last day in office to commute the sentences against Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean. He should have done it much sooner. Trump granting a presidential pardon to Joe Arpaio is a good thing.

Mark Aaron

"Trump granting a presidential pardon to Joe Arpaio is a good thing."

A big fan of racist criminals are you Carlos? I wish I could say I am surprised.

Carlos Ponce

No, I'm not a fan of racist criminals, Mark. You probably booed Sheriff Buford Pusser while seeing the movie "Walking Tall" too. There's so much hate in your posts, and misinformation.

Mark Aaron

"No, I'm not a fan of racist criminals, Mark."

If you are a fan of Joe Arapio you are a fan of a convicted racist criminal and judicial scofflaw. Pretend otherwise if you wish, that still doesn't make it so.

Mark Aaron

"I certainly hope Arpaio next gets the Medal of Freedom...Or, maybe a Nobel, for what he might do someday....."

A big fan of judicial scofflaws are you George. Aren't you usually in favor in hanging criminals?

George Croix

Marked difference, huh?
Bush commutes senteces of Border patrol agents, and Obama commutes them of drug offenders..drug dealers included....
That's very 'progressive'......[whistling]

Mark Aaron

"and Obama commutes them of drug offenders.."

You sure do enjoy denigrating the very, very popular President Obama, but heaven forbid you say anything bad about the most reviled president in American history. What does that say about your judgement George?

Mark Aaron

"Bush commutes senteces of Border patrol agents, and Obama commutes them of drug offenders..drug dealers included....That's very 'progressive'...... "

A big fan of the failed "War on Drugs" are you George?

Jim Forsythe

  Pardon's have political cost, the President is willing to pay the cost.
Trump had all but promised to pardon Arpaio in tweets and comments in recent weeks, yet acknowledged the political furor his pardon was likely to ignite.
“I won’t do it tonight because I don’t want to cause any controversy,”

We are a country of laws , or a country of laws that one follows, if one agrees with them?
"It was this behavior that a federal judge in 2011 found to be unconstitutional and ordered Mr. Arpaio to stop. He refused, placing himself above the law and the Constitution that he had sworn to uphold." 

What are some Republicans' saying?
"Mr. Arpaio was found guilty of criminal contempt for continuing to illegally profile Latinos living in Arizona based on their perceived immigration status in violation of a judge's orders," McCain said in a statement.
"The President has the authority to make this pardon, but doing so at this time undermines his claim for the respect of rule of law as Mr. Arpaio has shown no remorse for his actions."
McCain's counterpart in the Senate, Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) also criticized Trump's decision to pardon Arpaio.
"Regarding the Arpaio pardon, I would have preferred that the President honor the judicial process and let it take its course," 

"no exceptions" and  “we must stand for the rule of law.”
"Five years ago, then-Gov. Jan Brewer cited the “rule of law” when she expressed her opposition to an Obama administration policy that protected young immigrants from deportation.
And it was invoked by Ducey when he signed a 2016 law that requires immigrants who are convicted of crimes to complete 85 percent of their prison sentences before they are released to immigration authorities.
“If you break the law and commit a crime in Arizona, we expect you to serve your sentence, no exceptions,” Ducey wrote last year, adding that “we must stand for the rule of law.”
The governor was endorsed by Arpaio during his 2014 run for governor, providing him a big lift in a Republican primary dominated by immigration.
Democratic U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva said it would be hypocritical for advocates for tougher immigration enforcement to now hold Arpaio to a more lenient standard.
“If the rule of law is unbending and applies to all, then it applies to Arpaio,” he said"

If  are going to follow “rule of law”, then we need to follow it. When a U.S. District Court Judge rules , it can be appealed, but not ignored.
"A federal judge has found former Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio guilty of criminal contempt of court, ruling that the six-term sheriff showed "flagrant disregard" for a court order telling his agency to stop racially profiling Latinos."

George Croix

Jim, what's the political cost for anyone in the final months of a final term?

Mark Aaron

"We are a country of laws , or a country of laws that one follows, if one agrees with them?
"It was this behavior that a federal judge in 2011 found to be unconstitutional and ordered Mr. Arpaio to stop. He refused, placing himself above the law and the Constitution that he had sworn to uphold." "

Well said Jim.

George Croix

Chelsea Manning is saying that her/his commutation by ex-Pres. Obama should not be compared to Arpaios.
I'd agree.
Arpaio disobeyed a judge's order and continued to enforce the laws, depsite that order telling him not to.
Manning committed espionage and sold out his country.
But, then, Hillary got a pass for espionage, so that pretty much shows where that ideological thought process came from......

It's probabaly just me, but ex-Pres. Obama missed NO opportunity to try to stick it to honest American citizen gun owners every time he could pretend that some killing somewhere was a firearm's fault somehow, then ended up commutting sentences for criminals convicted of selling drugs, some of them also having firearms on their person, yet THAT was ignored because the poor prisoners had been 'unfairly' or 'disproportionally' targeted......and the same people happy with that chose to ignore the defining charcteristic that made those doper/firearms felons worthy of that Presidential Clemency.
I think that's just a tad or more worse than letting a guy go who was at least trying to make this nation's laws meaningful, as Pres. Trump did for Sherrif Joe.
Yes, that IS a moral conflict on my part, but, nobody's perfect....

[beam][beam]

Mark Aaron

"It's probabaly just me, but ex-Pres. Obama missed NO opportunity to try to stick it to honest American citizen"

What is it other than the color of his skin that makes you hate President Obama with so much maliciousness George?

Jim Forsythe

Political cost  for someone in the last year or less of their term, is how they are  portrayed in history.

By using a pardon this early in his term, he stands the risk of losing some support for the midterms, and for his reelection, 
if he runs. If he does not care, then it does not matter.

Ways President Donald Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio will be felt for years to come. 
By pardoning Arpaio, an early and loyal supporter of his 2016 presidential bid, Trump has sent an unmistakable signal that he is willing to grant clemency to his political allies.
Arpaio's pardon, after a federal judge convicted him of defying another judge's order, could undermine judicial authority. And it certainly raises additional questions about Trump's acceptance of judicial authority.
With crucial congressional midterm elections in 2018, Trump's pardon of Arpaio gives Hispanic voters another reason to organize and mobilize at polls.
No other Phoenix’ area law-enforcement agency has pursued illegal immigration enforcement the way Arpaio’s office did. And police officials on Friday said nothing about that will change following Arpaio’s pardon.
Maricopa County’s new Sheriff Paul Penzone in February announced he would no longer permit “courtesy holds” for Immigration Customs Enforcement in his jails.

Carlos Ponce

"By using a pardon this early in his term, he stands the risk of losing some support for the midterms, and for his reelection," Not really, Jim. The only ones this bothers did not vote for him, would not vote for him in the future, nor any Republican.
"Chief Deputy Jerry Sheridan, who was Arpaio's right-hand man for the last years of his tenure, said he was happy for his former boss."
"Gov. Doug Ducey says Arpaio family 'can move on and enjoy their retirement together"
“The President brought justice to a situation where the Obama administration had attempted to destroy a political opponent. Sheriff Joe Arpaio made many enemies in the judicial system, the media, and the left because he enforced laws that the federal government ignored. He did right by the law – even as the political consequences continued to mount. America owes Sheriff Arpaio a debt of gratitude and not the injustice of a political witch hunt." — U.S. Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Ariz.
"Just received word that Sheriff Joe Arpaio won a pardon from @POTUS. The Rule of Law still stands." Rep Paul Gosar
“The verdict in July was a travesty of justice. President Trump recognized Sheriff Arpaio was doing his job, following the law and this is why he deserves to be pardoned. Judge Bolton’s ruling has caused me to lose my faith in the court system and the federal judicial system. As a former law enforcement officer, I have experienced days when my job did not guarantee my return to my family. Arpaio rid Arizona of illegals. The President recognizes his work to protect America. President Trump has proven that if you do your job, you should not be punished for it.” — James Fotis, president of the National Center for Police Defense, which has helped pay for Arpaio's defense.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2017/08/25/joe-arpaios-republican-supporters-celebrate-his-pardon/604136001/
Of those who object all are Democrats except for John McCain. No surprise here. But he did say , "The President has the authority to make this pardon, but doing so at this time undermines his claim for the respect of rule of law as Mr. Arpaio has shown no remorse for his actions.”
Didn't someone once post a Presidential pardon can only be granted if they admit guilt? Arpaio never did and still got a pardon.[beam]

Mark Aaron

"Didn't someone once post a Presidential pardon can only be granted if they admit guilt? Arpaio never did and still got a pardon."

Arpaio's acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt. I have previously provided you with credible links that state that fact, why are you pretending otherwise now Carlos? Why are you such a fan of convicted racists?

Carlos Ponce

"Arpaio's acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt." Not here, Mark. Looks like anyone you disagree with is racist. Sick.

Mark Aaron

" Looks like anyone you disagree with is racist. Sick."

No, Carlos, I reserve that crude appellation for only the most deserving. Those that repeatedly prove themselves due that condemnation.

Carlos Ponce

No, Mark, you use that crude appellation on everyone you disagree with. That's hateful.

George Croix

All interesting pints, Jim.
- Is it not possible Pres. Trump pardoned Arpaio because he thought he deserved it?
Maybe so, maybe not....but, if not, then he's still right in line with the bulk of pardons and commutations issued by any President....
- Could undermine judicial authority. Well, how...? One case is not a license for everybody, or anybody, for that matter, to undermine. To me, much of the Judiciary undermines their own authority by bench legislating and obvious ideological rulings.
A question the media has allowed to simply go away is why the heck a judge would order a law enforcement officer to stop enforcing law. Isn't that undermining, too?
- I know many, many Hispanic voters, including being married into a family of 'em, who do NOT support illegal aliens ignoring our laws and essentially giving the finger to all the legal immigrants who followed the laws to come here and/or become citizens. Not all people block vote based on skin color or ethnic origin...although one Party certainly hangs their hat on the hope that those who do that keep it up.
- 'Nobody/Everybody else is doing it" is a kid's arguement, not an adults...well, it shouldn't be, anyway.....maybe if we had stronger enforcement of illegals, we'd actually give US citizens a break. Imagine that....
- Sherrif Penzone, by refusing intra-agency common sense cooperation, has made his choice. Who benefits from that - citizens, or illegals? I wonder if he crossed his fingers while swearing to uphold the law....... [whistling] I'll send him an e-mail and ask.
Since the country is fundamentally changed to fundamentally screwed up, we now have more negative media coverage about Arpaio being pardoned for rounding up illegals than we did about the release of several thousand criminal illegal aliens by the previous Admin. That right there should give pause for reflection on undermining the laws...but, for way too many people, they just 'don't care what they did'.
One positive out of all this, is that action can still be taken without worrying about poll results or focus groups....
That's what we pay these 'leaders' for......lest they forget......

Mark Aaron

" Could undermine judicial authority. Well, how...? One case is not a license for everybody, or anybody, for that matter, to undermine."

When the case is as blatant and as high profile as Arpaio it is absurd to pretend it doesn't send the message that Trump supports scofflaw bigots. If President Obama had done anything like this you know you would be calling for a lynching by now.

Mark Aaron

"By pardoning Arpaio, an early and loyal supporter of his 2016 presidential bid, Trump has sent an unmistakable signal that he is willing to grant clemency to his political allies."

Especially those involved in his conspiracy with the Russians to affect our national elections.

Carlos Ponce

"Especially those involved in his conspiracy with the Russians to affect our national elections." Lack of evidence to show collusion, Mark. Even most die hard Liberals have backed away from that false accusation.

Mark Aaron

"Lack of evidence to show collusion, Mark. Even most die hard Liberals have backed away from that false accusation."

A majority of the country believes Trump should be impeached Carlos.

Carlos Ponce

"A majority of the country believes Trump should be impeached Carlos." Not really. Just fake news.

Mark Aaron

""A majority of the country believes Trump should be impeached Carlos." Not really. Just fake news. "

Prove it.

Carlos Ponce

Quit looking at the polls and ask the American people.

Mark Aaron

"Quit looking at the polls and ask the American people. "

Poor Carlos.

Carlos Ponce

Listening to the people is considered a bad thing by Mark. Call me poor if you want. Jesus said "Blessed are the poor....."
Polls are soooooo accurate aren't they? [wink]
Just ask President Hillary.[tongue]

Mark Aaron

"Polls are soooooo accurate aren't they?"

Trump sure thought so when the polls were in his favor. When they aren't, like now, he calls them fake news.

Carlos Ponce

Pre-nomination pollsters favored Trump because they thought the Democrat nominee would have no problem beating him. Their agenda was to get the Republicans to nominate Trump then throw a barrage of accusations against him. Then Hillary would win. Their state by state electoral polling showed Trump had "no path" to the presidency. So much for post nomination polling.[rolleyes]

Mark Aaron

"Pre-nomination pollsters favored Trump because they thought the Democrat nominee would have no problem beating him. Their agenda was to get the Republicans to nominate Trump then throw a barrage of accusations against him. Then Hillary would win. "

Oh please. Now you would have us believe all of the pollsters were conspiring against the GOP. Poor pathetic Carlos, what a gull.

Carlos Ponce

Mark, all you have to do is check the demographics. Very convincing if you BOTHER.

George Croix

pints?
Quarts?
No
Gallons?
No

POINTS....
Close enough

Jarvis Buckley

When I got up this morning I thought I might just read a book today or do a little writing. Then I started reading these comments. I think I'll have a glass of wine & prop my feet up.

Mark Aaron

" think I'll have a glass of wine & prop my feet up."

The sun is a long way from the yardarm yet Jarvis.

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