Welfare has been a persistent social phenomenon. It has created a welfare mentality, which perpetuates the class of welfare recipients. There are some familiar negative consequences. It can destroy families. It discourages work and encourages illegitimate children.

A focus is being placed on the welfare recipient to work. The theory here is correct, but we can question its practical aspects.

The recipient will probably be assigned to a job with little or no future. Transportation, baby sitting and miscellaneous expenses could take more money than they make.

There is so much to be said about the cheating, graft and inefficiency of the bureaucracy, compounding the problem of welfare. To the impoverished American, poverty is hell. There are the feelings of hopelessness and frustration. It is unfortunate, but the poor will be with us until the end.

We must do everything we can to help those who cannot help themselves.

Finally, we must analyze the cost-effectiveness of proposed welfare programs. Will the benefits to the participants of welfare balance the costs to society?

Clark Hall

Texas City

(33) comments

Paula Flinn

I agree. However, I do believe that most people would rather have ANY job than collect welfare. To get food stamps, for example, some welfare offices treat you like you are the "lowest of the low", instead of being in-between jobs, because you were laid off from your former job.

During inflationary times, the minimum wage should be raised for all jobs so that going on welfare would be discouraged. Not just high school kids are working in fast-food places.

George Croix

Doing away with the requirement to at least SEEK employment hasn't helped....

JBG JBG

I've never had the occasion to agree with Mr. Clark Hall, in the past, but I finally have the opportunity to do so now. I'll have to measure my agreement though. It strikes about 99.999! Allow me to elaborate.
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Mr. Hall was right about poverty being hell, and he was right about bureaucratic waste and inefficiency. He was right about the poor being with us always. The greatest, wisest, most knowledgeable individual who ever walked the earth bears Mr. Hall our on the poor being with us always!
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Now, I don't want to really start preaching here, but I'd be less than an ingrate if I did not give you a little "som'em- som'em" to tide you over on this. See, a poor man is poor for a reason! He is poor in the natural because he is poor in the spirit. ( check this out ).
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Luke 4:18 also Isaiah 61:1 ( Both are the same )( Jesus talking about his mission)

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised......"
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This is the reason Jesus sent missionaries out preaching the word all over the world!
The word gospel means "GOOD NEWS!" What is good news to a poor man? Yes! He does not have to be poor anymore! Go find me a poor man and I'll guarantee you he is greatly lacking in spiritual knowledge, wisdom, and understanding! I'll go a little further ........I don't care if he is standing behind a pulpit faking as a preacher of the gospel!
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The enemy is the father of death, poverty, sickness, division, deception, and upheaval in society, and unless a man knows who his source is and how to access, from that source, YES.....he is more than likely going to end up poor, if not "PO!"
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Oh make no mistake about it, I know what I'm talking about, because I've been there, done it, and I have the T-Shirts to prove it! If I happen upon a poor man, or an unfortunate man wanting a hand up or a hand out, the first thing I'm going to do is make him give me something, BEFORE I GIVE HIM SOMETHING! Usually all he will have is time, and I'll take that, and then spend that little time extrapolating on important points of the word concerning prosperity, and sowing and reaping. ( AFTER THAT I WILL MAKE IT WELL WORTH HIS WHILE for dealing with me! )
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That process must start somewhere in a poor person's life, or they will remain in poverty for life, .....or ALWAYS....as Jesus Christ and Mr. Hall proclaimed!
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I agree with Pflinn concerning working people who have fallen on bad times being respected and treated with dignity, because they have earned it. I do not agree with her when she says increasing minimum wage will discourage people from going on welfare, for the following reason Mr. Hall stated in his article:
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"We must do everything we can to help those who cannot help themselves."
--------Mr. Clark Hall
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Here is my problem with what was said here. I agree with Mr. Hall on HELPING the poor, and I do, and will do until Christ comes or JBG goes! However, the problem with the WELFARE SYSTEM in the United States, is they have not separated the poor from those who are MASQUERADING as the poor, or those flat out CHEATING the system! It is as plain and simple as that! It is no different than setting up a basic, simple, rudimentary computer system which would be impossible to avoid computer hackers! I have no problem with the poor, I do have a problem with those who can work, but won't,.... then proceed forward in passing themselves off as the poor! It is happening EVERYDAY, AND EVERY HOUR!
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Raising the minimum wage, in order to stop this behavior, would be like building more gambling casinos to cure a gambling addict.
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So, let me be clear, I did not stop by here this morning to criticize or excoriate the poor! I'm just expounding on an American issue which nobody wants to address. The Church has a responsibility to be greatly involved, but because of the WORLD beating them down into fear! Many of them are shirking back into the four walls of the Houses of God, waiting on the rapture! The LORD said "GO YE".... but they won't. Some won't even help others to ....GO YE INTO THE WORLD......
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Now! See there yall go,...thinking Old JBG wants an OFFERING! I don't want nothing! There is no charge! Somebody could say AMEN though,...I'll take that, if we have somebody not to embarrassed to say it.

Paula Flinn

If you raise minimum wage, and pay workers enough, they will be able to pay their bills with their salary, keep their dignity, do an honest days work, and NOT go on welfare.

Jb, you are worried about the wrong thing! You are so worried about the CHEATERS! The fraudulent claims are minimal compare to all of the good folks you would be helping by raising the minimum wage!

Yes, there will always be cheaters, and let's catch them, but do not deprive all of the honest good workers of a raise in minimum wage because of the evil cheaters!

It is like I was telling an acquaintance of mine that objected to the free and reduced lunch program for low-income families of students in the schools. She said that there were kids getting free and reduced lunches, and she was sure that a certain amount of them were wealthy enough to pay full price. I told her that hungry children cannot learn, and the few who are "cheating the system" I don't worry about. I worry about the kids that come up to me and ask to borrow (really give them) $1 for lunch that day. (You have no idea how often I am asked!) Even if I give them $1 today, what will they do tomorrow?

JBG JBG

Pflinn,
I'm not worried about the wrong thing, I think it is YOU who is worried about the wrong thing, because you were so in a hurry to call me out as being wrong, you did not even understand what I posted!
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So in all due respect, allow me to use your own words to explain what I posted:
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"I told her that hungry children cannot learn, and the few who are "cheating the system" I don't worry about. I worry about the kids that come up to me and ask to borrow (really give them) $1 for lunch that day. (You have no idea how often I am asked!) Even if I give them $1 today, what will they do tomorrow?"
-----Pflinn
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OKAY!!!! GIVE A POOR KID A DOLLAR TODAY,...AND WHAT WILL THEY DO TOMORROW?!!!!! Exactly!!! Give a poor family a hand out, raise the minimum wage a dollar or two for the poor,.....BUT WHAT WILL THEY DO AFTER THAT?

Paula Flinn

Not just a dollar or two--$7.25 (or so) to $11.00 an hour. That would make a big difference to many people.

Come on, Jb, What Would Jesus Do? Quit worrying about the "cheaters" there are more of them on Wall Street, and greedy CEO's making more than they can spend (well a lot of them buy drugs), poor devils, and here poor people are trying to "keep it all together" with a min. wage paying job or two. Have a heart, Jb, for God's sake!

Paula Flinn

Jesus did not charge for the loaves and fishes.

Carlos Ponce

Math lesson Pflinn. You want the minimum wage to be raised to $11.00 from $7.25. Only $3.75 more you say. Now multiply that by, let's say a 35 hour work week. Now multiply that by 52 weeks in a year. Now multiply that by the number of employees at that one location. We're talking about some serious money here. Just might have to lay someone off for that franchise to make ends meet. That or increase prices leading to more inflation calling for another increase in the minimum wage.

JBG JBG

I doubt if raising the minimum wage a dollar or so will solve the problems for those who are working those type jobs. Those type jobs were never meant for families to try to run their homes on. This is one reason we have schools and colleges in existence! Poverty is one of the three curses of the law. Spiritual death, Poverty, and sickness! People need information and revelation in order to overcome all of three of them.
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Many people cannot make it today because they are not financially responsible, and are not faithful stewards over their money! Check the credit agencies and you will see some people making 200,000 grand a year, and in debt over their heads barely making it! I find that like most things poverty in many cases is a choice people make. Young strong, males and females, able bodied, make everyday choices which invite poverty upon them while others are doing just the opposite by making better choices, in pursuing post high school education and training, and being responsible with their money!
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Should those who made better choices pay for all the dumb *&*^ who chose to be poor? Did the five virgins who were wise and bought extra oil share their oil with the five STUPID virgins who did not choose to do the same? NO! I find than many people who are gaming the system, are able to work but won't! I know some personally! Some have women out working for them.
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One other question is,.... who said there were only a few cheaters sucking the system dry? I certainly don't agree with that, but everybody is entitled to their opinion. The poor is not the problem, on the contrary, it is all those who are disguising themselves as the poor, HOPING EVERYBODY WILL SAY,.....OH, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THOSE FEW PEOPLE who are cheating! It is not a few, who are cheating, I assure you!

JBG JBG

I can't help you Pflinn. I wish I could but I can't. Jesus did say help the poor, I'll give you that, and I do help them. However I am certainly glad that you asked WHAT WOULD JESUS DO as far as the LAZY and those who are cheating the system. Here is what His word says HE WOULD DO! Now you might not like this, but you will have to pray and take it up with Him, tell Him he is WRONG,....don't blame me. You asked, and here is your answer!
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2 Thessalonians 3:10:

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."
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"If THERE IS ONE WHO WILL NOT WORK, THEN JESUS SAID DON'T FEED HIM!" If that is heartless then you are not talking about me, because I did not say it, I'm just repeating it! OH you disagree with what JESUS said? [smile]
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P.S. I like you but if you are going to call Jesus wrong, this debate is over, because there is certainly nothing else I can say to prove my case. [beam]

Paula Flinn

I am telling you that you are concentrating on the wrong end of it. Do not worry about the cheaters or the lazy. Concentrate on what good can be done for the vast majority of workers who show up everyday, do their jobs, and want to get paid a decent living wage. Turn it over to God.

Leave judgement (and vengeance) of the other folks up to the Lord. You are worried about the "wrong end of the spectrum." I am saying that the cheating is only a minimal part of the problem, maybe 2% or 3 %of the people, and the Lord on Judgement Day will take care of that. You and I cannot solve all of the problems...just the ones to help the poor... and leave the rest up to the Lord (and the ones that do get caught cheating or defrauding the govt. by the government)!

There will always be those who try to cheat the system. Let it go to a Higher Power to deal with.

Chris Gimenez

Typical Left-wing blather. Don't worry about the fraud, the waste, the abuses of our tax dollars because it's "for the children". You people make me nauseated.

Just in the Medicaid program alone the fraud is estimated to be as much as a $100 BILLION ANNUALLY!!! But the Left says don't worry about it because it's for the greater good.

The only thing that would be for the greater good is for the boy president to be impeached and removed from his occupation of the White House.

Paula Flinn

I did not say it's for the children. I did not say to ignore the fraud for the greater good. You really like to put your own interpretation and words in and call it typical Left-wing blather.

The federal social programs do help many people. The government should be vigilant concerning people who commit fraud and steal our tax dollars. They should be caught and prosecuted for stealing and cheating the system. They should pay a fine and go to jail.

Hey, lefties pay taxes, too. We do not like fraud, either, but that is no reason to cancel a program that is helping so many deserving people. There should be safeguards in place to catch the cheaters.

sverige1
Lars Faltskog

BEVOresident -
You ought to make efforts to be more forgiving to poor people who try to commit fraud and steal. If they really could make an honest living and amass more $, then they would do it. They simply have no other choice.

Aside from armed robbery and shoplifting (which both endanger physical safety), bucking the system only drains a comparatively negligible amount of money/funds. Enron, Waste Mgt, World Com and other such types of corporate money laundering scandals have hurt this country much more than welfare abusers ever will. We all should be praying for their forgiveness by our Lord Savior.

Carlos Ponce

I just heard an interesting interview with the REVEREND JESSE JACKSON. They asked why he was present Ferguson but ignored the hundreds of black children and teens killed in Chicago. Why doesn't he address them? The REVEREND JESSE JACKSON said in Chicago "you have 50 schools have closed, pretty great angst, 50 drug stores closed, 75 grocery stores closed, a great deal of despair there." This is Barack Obama's home town in a blue state with Mayor Rahm Emanuel, former White House Chief of Staff. Where is this great economic recovery the Democrats keep talking about? The REVEREND JESSE JACKSON sees nothing but "despair".

George Croix

If you put someone in charge whose policies don't hurt creation and retention of good jobs, that will do a lot more to keep people dignified and getting decent wages than any minimum wage, or part time, job.
You don't usually hear of anyone happy to lose a 50 grand a year job and go to McDonalds, or a univ. graduate enthused about his TGI Fridays 'career', or a formerly middle class family happy to now be on a 29.5 hour per week income vs 40 hours courtesy of the ACA.
Those situations are not accidental.
On thing to remember is there has only been ONE Jesus Christ, that it's been close to 2000 years since he died, and that a few things have changed in the world since then....
Quite a few....

JBG JBG

Pflinn,
You take your advice. That will be fine with me. I don't think like that. Sorry!

Paula Flinn

Funny, Jb, NurseJayne just said about the same thing that I did, only she said it better:

"My opinion is that this (Thessalonians quote to not feed the idle) was never meant as an excuse not to help the poor. This passage doesn't discuss helping the poor AT ALL but rather encourages YOU to serve as a good example. There will always be cheats but time and time again it's been proven that they are a very small percentage of the people who seek help. Many who seek assistance are already employed but cannot make ends meet no matter how hard they try. That's not lazy, it's a crappy system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

And, yes, I practice what I believe. You don't quit helping the poor because there is a small percentage of cheaters defrauding the system. Exactly what I said.

JBG JBG

Gecroix, you are right. Many things have changed since the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but HIS Word has never changed, and it will never evolve either. What the Word said years ago, is what it is still saying today! I keep telling all those I come in contact with, if any changes are going to occur, it won't be Jesus His Word, or God who does it! That leaves only mankind who should change.[smile]

George Croix

Problem ain't The Word of Christ, it's the so often misuse of His words to try to justify bad behavior, or shame someone into accepting it.
Christ forgave the sinner, but didn't condone the sins.
WE should all do our best to do that, too, and still...but BOTH parts of it...[smile]
Mankind has constantly changed...every once in a while, for the better...[beam]

I believe you and I both know that wearing a WWJD bracelet doesn't indicate true character anymore than wearing a big red S on your chest means you can fly.
Just like a jelly donut, in life you've got to find out what's inside a person to get a complete picture.

J. Shaffer

"Problem ain't The Word of Christ, it's the so often misuse of His words to try to justify bad behavior"

George, this is the second time this week we agree on something. Buy a lottery ticket.

This Thessalonians quote about not feeding the idle, for example. This was never intended as a directive to deny help to the poor but a lesson in leading by example.

"It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. 11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.[d]

13 As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother."

In other words, if you want to prosthelytize, you still have to work for a living WHILE you spread the word. Lead by example. Do as I do, not just as I say.

Amazing that those who would preach The Word would also say that someone who works hard all day should not expect that work to feed his family.

George Croix

Don't buy your ticket yet, Nurse....[beam]
You see, way I see it, too many people work all day at figuring out how to take advantage of other people working all day so they can get some of it.
The only 'examples' such people care about are new ways to benefit from the work of others.
I'm all for a 'living wage', but I FIRMLY believe all this latest Administration focus on it, and thus the national news media focus on it, is to cover up for the fact that under Admin. policies and practices we've had the WORST recovery since the G.D. and the most people who've given up even trying to find work in nearly 50 years and the least chance of finding a job nearly as good as before 'fundamental change'.
Thats why I see your provided quote as both condemnation of the layabout, and advise to the productive (or in current case someone lucky enough to have a good job) to try to shame the do-nothing and warn him that his dependency and lack of initiative will only bring him further harm. Because the Lord, imho, never intended that you be your brothers keeper when your brother could keep himself, but wont.
Problem these days is, as we secularize more as a nation and legitimize the notion that it's bad actions are always someone else's fault, shame is something too many people are unfamiliar with.
That's what I mean by things have changed a LOT since the time of Christ.
So, I ask this, as a question in general:
Who 'hates' the poor more? Those who believe in helping them do better when they cannot help themselves to do so, and want them to have a productive life? Or those who create the environment that keeps them poor by making it harder and harder to move up, keeps them dependent, while claiming to be on their side, talking about 'raising minimum wage', when in reality it's a bandaid on a compound fracture?
There's a REASON that our President rescinded the requirement to at least LOOK for work to get aid.
How is THAT 'leading by example' to try and get people to be responsible?

Anyway, thanks for your reply. I always enjoy them, believe it or not.....

JBG JBG

2 Thessalonians 3:10 meant just what it said, of coarse people can take their own meaning from it. If a person can work and won't but instead proceed to live off of others, then this scripture is saying he SHOULD not eat! That is not hard to understand! It has absolutely nothing to do with being poor in my opinion, but someone else might feel different about it, which I have no problem with.
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To think otherwise is to say I ( JBG ) ought to go, or it is okay to go apply for government assistance right now, or for free housing, or anything else that's free being handed out by Washington! The Word is Doctrine, and good for reproof, correction, and instruction in doing right. It is not good nor right for an able bodied man or woman who can work but won't, instead they game, and cheat the systems meant for the poor, or the disabled! This is what I meant, and I stand by it. We have to much stealing, deception, and wrong doing going existing in these programs meant for the poor, and is why so many individuals justify not giving or aiding the poor today.
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Just like I said, everybody can form their own opinion, on the matter, no big deal to me.

George Croix

I need someone to help me write/type better - needs to be someone accustomed to
taking on hopeless tasks....[beam][beam]

"Those who believe in helping them do better when they cannot help themselves to do so, and want them to have a productive life?"
Not 'cannot'....CAN....

I think it's a keyboard problem, not me......... [wink]

J. Shaffer

The Bible is often open to interpretation.

Here's my take. John, who wrote the letter to the Thessalonians, exhorted people to not talk of God but to act as well. No one wants someone bothering them while they work, telling them they are not 'Christian' enough while the preacher has smooth, uncalloused palms themselves. While being a disciple is probably time consuming, Paul continued work as a tent maker.

Spread the Word, he said, but don't expect others to house, clothe and feed you while you do this: take care of yourself and set a good example.

Do what I do and not just what I say.

To me he is speaking more to the Joel Osteens of the world, who preach on Sunday and live in mansions without doing the actual work of Jesus.... or any work at all.

My opinion is that this was never meant as an excuse not to help the poor. This passage doesn't discuss helping the poor AT ALL but rather encourages YOU to serve as a good example. There will always be cheats but time and time again it's been proven that they are a very small percentage of the people who seek help. Many who seek assistance are already employed but cannot make ends meet no matter how hard they try. That's not lazy, it's a crappy system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

.

Paula Flinn

Excellent post, NurseJayne, on Sat. Aug. 9th 11:54 am.

George Croix

The 'system' in this country, the traditional one, saw the fastest, farthest, and greatest rise in personal and national wealth in history.
Deviation from it has caused us to slide ever more towards the 'European model', a place the Europeans themselves don't much care for, or else so many of them wouldn't have relocated here...[wink]
In but one example, for the first time the United States middle class is less well off than another country. The Canadians beat us now, largely due to loss of, or inability to find, a good job, those ever more being replaced with part time and minimum wage jobs, or 'government work', or 'government checks'.
Some significant deviations leading to our decline include, but are not limited to, self-absorption and it's resulting lack of concern for fellow citizens, over concern with helping everybody in the world we can even to our own national detriment, paying people who can work to do nothing, paying our enemies overseas to like us just because they call us allies, regulations that benefit regulation writers but little else, an EPA that values minnows over humans and other such inanities, a tax structure that penalizes businesses for staying in this country, worker demands for more pay than their labor was worth, business/shareholders refusal to give up profits rather than relocate, a public that in large part can manage to graduate high school or even college and still be dumber than a stump about their own government in general and the expectations of good citizenship, pretty near useless 'parents' that allowed those students to get so darn dumb, lawyers who make a living helping phonies and scammers make a living, technological advances that replace 50 workers with one robotic machine, government picking winners and losers, and in no small part because we kill millions of our citizens to be yearly as 'choices' so we're not inconvenienced. And on and on.
Yet even so we were still the envy of the world, 'The Greatest Country The World Has Ever Known', as one prominent person stated.
Then we decided to let that person 'fundamentally change' that, and not one single thing has actually improved in the nation since then, and only some individuals are better off by virtue of their willingness to make their fellow citizen(s) less well off.
When HALF of your country is now out of work and/or on government assistance in some form, then we may safely say that the system that made us great has been turned into a system making us small.
If we maintain this march to dependency, this politically correct insanity, where rules and regulations replace production and results, then the new poor will NEVER have a chance to get back to at least former middle class, and the wealthiest will continue to send their money where it can make more money and not be confiscated by a governement who's idea of a 'fair share' is, at best, simplistically...stupid. Period.
I do think that leading by example is a good thing, if the example is good.
Unfortunately, 'Do what I do, not what I say', is NOT what we have for leadership now, as we are told by those rich folks to hate the rich, by those elites wanting for nothing that we must 'share sacrifice', and by those who have never had a real workaday job that only theu knwo what a 'fair share' is.
But, now we come back full circle to that dumber than a stump thingy...for believing them...

J. Shaffer

I find often that conservatives and liberals agree on many things. Too often we are distracted by what political parties feed us, in a, "Look! There's Elvis!" kind of way. If we stopped arguing about abortion and gay marriage and started looking at what we agree on, things would change.

I have been searching for good reference books about the early 1900s, as we are repeating the patterns of that era, with monetary influence of politics (Tammany Hall, for example) and the offshoring of commerce and the protests against high tariffs.

You should define 'Middle Class' for me, though, as it once included those who worked at menial labor jobs. Whether making steel girders, tires or plastic forks, jobs required vocational skills, not college degrees.

Corporations moved those jobs overseas because the 'Middle Class' definition in India or China required a much lower salary than US workers. Are workers to blame for wanting jobs with living wages and health care?

We agree that tax structures need to change so that they penalize people that move jobs overseas. Such as our Congress is today, even a bill we can AGREE on is stuck in debate over petty disagreements on a larger scale. This is why we have the most unproductive Congress in history.

You can complain about technology costing us jobs. I point you to the oil industry in the 1980s, when electrical engineers were the 'bad guys' (despite working for middle class wages) because they put lower class workers out of business. The same during the Industrial Revolution. How many people did the cotton gin put out of work? Should you complain about an American inventor putting people out of work?

It's a great failure of our educational system to graduate people who are not qualified. Athletes get a pass, and everyone gets a little push, for being Left Behind means having funding cut.... if it isn't cut to give everyone a little break on property taxes anyway.

As for the EPA, I remember when rivers could be set on fire..... and while we are better now, if I had to choose between fresh air and business.... well, you can't breathe money. Or eat it, either. Minnows have a hard time offering an opinion on why they were there first or the part they play in the ecosystem and an even harder time forming PACs, and money is speech. As more of our coastline is lost to industry and weekend beach houses, I have to wonder if I can even find a place that's safe and legal to fish.....

George Croix

Yes, the left and right are sometimes separated by their similarities...out of force of habit.....

'Are workers to blame for wanting jobs with living wages and health care?'
No. Of course not. BUT there is a difference between paying someone well to do a good job in return, and paying a fee greater than the value of their work. I'm not the only person who has shepherded people around making more than me, while I essentially did their work for them, and/or kept them from screwing things up bad. Not a whine, just an observation of fact, that wages often do not match capability, on either end.
Also, it's SO common for a person to demand top dollar for themselves, while at the SAME TIME demanding rock bottom pricing for goods and services they use. IMHO, a significant reason why a lot of work went offshore.

'You can complain about technology costing us jobs.'
Huh? No. It wasn't a complaint...it was an observation, and also a fact of life. I'm pretty fond of technology, and for just one example of my overall happiness with it, we have as Exhibit A the nice modern fire gear I wore that kept me un-barbecued and sure beat the heck out of the old school aluminized coats and rubber hip boots I started out in.
I suspect, though, that auto workers are less happy about it than auto buyers are.
Some win, some lose...nothing changed there since the Dawn of Time.

'As for the EPA, I remember when rivers could be set on fire.'
Yeah, I'm older than 30 myself....
BUT there's an ocean of difference between that extreme and the current model for the EPA. That will become ever more apparent as coal fired electrical generation plants get shut down, and our utility bills 'necessarily skyrocket'.
At that point, I expect a hue and cry for some reverse gear...PC be darned...
Business or dirty air? All or nothing is rarely what life choice we have to make. Consider, nearly 20 years ago we spent 300,000,000 bucks in plant upgrades just to lower the sulfur content in diesel by an extra 1ppm to meet then new federal regs. Ridiculous. And things are worse now than then, as cost benefit NOW means the feds don't CARE what your cost is as long as their office jockies benefit come raise time, and lobbyists keep the money flowing.
From talking with my doctor daughter I'm sure you in your line of work are seeing ever more things mandated that do little if anything to better patient care, yet drive cost substantially. She certainly is in her practice.

Anyway, I'm overdue for another Diet Coke, so have a good weekend, and don't tell anybody about those similarities, because it will really screw up the well placed preconceived notions that both Parties depend so much on...

Chris Gimenez

Contributing to the rise in entitlements has been the decline in stable and full-time unemployment, the loosening of guidelines to qualify for SNAP and other entitlements, and the general malaise of many people who have given up looking for work. Anyone who believes this president has turned this economy around should probably check in to a facility for help.

http://www.infowars.com/more-than-101-million-working-age-americans-do-not-have-a-job/

Here's an article from today that shows what has happened to the wage gap since he took office.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/11/U-S-Wages-Down-23-Since-2008

George Croix

This story is titled poorly, imho.
Welfare didn't cause a 'welfare mentality',
The actual original concept of the welfare programs initially introduced was good...to help those who could not help themselves, or ahd fallen on hard times through no fault of their own. THAT is a worthy thing to do.
The 'welfare mentality' is NOT what honest people unable to help themselves have...they just need help, and many of them would certainly rather be providing for themselves.
BUT, the REAL negative 'welfare mentality' exists because of the BUMS, the LIARS, the GENERATIONAL SCAMMERS who take what they do not have coming but can get easily. Perhaps they'd not find it so easy to do, if one of the major political Parties was not so dependent on their votes in return for being kept when they COULD be working....or at least could if we can ever again elect somebody who favors jobs over dependency...

We should not bad mouth the truly needy...it can happen to anyone in an instant.
We should not care what happens to the cheaters and users. It's sometimes hard to tell the good from the bad, but once caught, the scoundrels should NEVER again get another public money dime. What happens to them then? I don't care anymore about that than they care about the rest of us....
THEN we could eventually get back to people seeing welfare as an aid to those really in need...as it was intended...not a gift to those in greed....

Matt Coulson

Nurse Jane, two points that keep us from doing what we agree on. Polarization and lack of trust. First there are precious few liberal republicans or conservative democrats left. The push for public health care wiped out the right side of the Democratic Party and the tea party wiped out the left side of the Republican Party. There is little pressure from inside either party to compromise.
The use of extreme tactics by both sides has made it hard for the parties to trust one another. You say what you have to to get a bill to law, then do what you want. Immigration is a good example of this. We agree on large parts of the problem but are afraid that if we take the low hanging fruit of agreement the more important harder parts will never get done. If you give the republicans boarder enforcement, they will have no motivation to work on a path to citizenship. If you give the democrats a path to citizenship they will not address boarder security, so we put together a huge "comprehensive" bill that no one can agree on even though there is lots of agreement. In your historical studies, I hope you find some example of us getting out of a mess like this, if so please tell us.

Chris Gimenez

You speak a lot of truth Matt but I'll also add that this president has done more to divide the parties and the nation than any President before him. It's been intentional since he first uttered "We won", and "Elections have consequences" and it's deteriorated since then. The fact is now that with his history of lying and executive action far and beyond the level-if not the number-of actions by any before him, he has proven himself unable to be trusted when he makes an agreement. The use of the IRS to target his political enemies-whether he gave the order or not he has allowed Holder to deny a Special Prosecutor-only served to harden the divide. As for the Tea Party, their influence and their goals are being misrepresented time and again. The "moderates" of either party have proven they will not even attempt to rein in the massive waste and fraud of our tax dollars and the Tea Party is represented by those who believe the federal government is out of control in many ways. They've been made into bogiemen by the Left because they are the only ones who represent true Hope and Change for this country.

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