The day has finally come. Among all the things said during the election that were dismissed as rhetoric, one promise is turning into a reality. The Americans who subscribe to Islam learned that there are constitutionally legal ways to discriminate against them. The common argument is that the executive order is pointed to nations and not religions, but who are we really kidding here?

Sure, today it's religion, but we have seen this before haven't we? Starting from Native Americans, to African-Americans and Jewish Americans or Japanese Americans. And while the next scary step may be to think when death squads would be made legal, there's always a way to see the light.

As an Ahmadi Muslim who has seen persecution due to my religion in Muslim majority countries anyway, I cannot express enough gratitude to the people who are stepping forward with words of support for 1 percent of their population. Whether it's the anonymous letter of support taped to the door of a mosque, or my coworker's letter to his congressmen. That's the one thing I see different in America, we do step up to help our neighbors, and that in the end will make us better.

Alamzeb Khan

Montgomery

(46) comments

Carlos Ponce

"The common argument is that the executive order is pointed to nations and not religions, but who are we really kidding here?"
Bad argument since the executive order addresses only a handful of nations identified by the previous administration as needing further vetting. The majority of nations where Muslim is followed are not affected at all. And what part of TEMPORARY do you not understand?
When President Jimmy Carter suspended the visas of Muslims were you equally troubled? Or when President Barack Obama put a ban on Muslims entering this country in 2011? "In December 2015, President Obama signed into law a measure placing limited restrictions on certain travelers who had visited Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria on or after March 1, 2011. Two months later, the Obama administration added Libya, Somalia, and Yemen to the list" No, because those actions addressed specific countries, not all Muslims.
"According to a January report by the Congressional Research Service, Obama invoked his immigration authority on 19 occasions. President George W. Bush invoked it six times. Bill Clinton used it 12 times. George H.W. Bush used it once, and Ronald Reagan used it five times."
See "Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act' signed by President Obama in December 2015
https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/hr158/BILLS-114hr158rds.xml
http://wwmt.com/news/nation-world/past-presidents-set-the-precedent-for-trumps-immigration-ban
If you as an Ahmadi Muslim were persecuted in Muslim Majority countries would you want those who persecuted you in this country? President Trump is there to PROTECT YOU TOO! He just wants a proper vetting process to make certain to stop those who would persecute you and others from entering. We don't have one now.

lefty2000
Cary Semar

"He just wants a proper vetting process to make certain to stop those who would persecute you and others from entering. We don't have one now."

You are always demanding citations to back up extraordinary claims, but how can you justify this whopper? Just because Trump said it doesn't make it true and very likely it is a lie since most of the things he says are lies.

Check this out:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/29/us/refugee-vetting-process.html?_r=0

If that don't work, google "how are refugees vetted"

Carlos Ponce

What part of the ISIS proclamation "We will use refugee crisis to infiltrate West" don't you understand?
Here is part of what the New York Times posts:
1. Registration with the United Nations.
2. Interview with the United Nations.
3. Refugee status granted by the United Nations.
What's WRONG with this picture? UNITED NATIONS? That Uber-Leftist group of Elites Hell bent on undermining this country? Inane. The last administration believed every sob story. The Left shows women and children refugees. They don't like to show the thousands of young men of Jihad age. FactCheck and other Leftist sources dispute this but TIME reports "About 62% of all migrants that have traveled to Europe this year, however, are men. A little under a quarter, 22%, are children and only 16% are women."
http://time.com/4122186/syrian-refugees-donald-trump-young-men/

Doyle Beard

Arent we just proud of hypoctites when they denounce one faction while giving the other a pass.Carlos you are right on man.

Jarvis Buckley

Only folks need to be concerned , are the terrorists.
Sleep well friend. It's ok.

Don Schlessinger

Agree!

Mike Trube

I think maybe hate is easier to overcome than stupidity.

Connie

lefty2000
Cary Semar

"It is better to be feared than loved, for fear is stronger than love. But it is better to be loved than hated, for hate is stronger than fear." -- Machiavelli

Jim Forsythe

"U.S. District Senior Judge James Robart of Seattle on Friday issued a nationwide restraining order blocking the travel ban put in place by President Trump last week."
"The ruling is the most comprehensive legal admonishment of Trump’s Jan. 27 executive order prohibiting immigrants, students, temporary workers and other  from Iran, Iraq, Syria and four additional nations from entering the U.S. for 90 days. Judges in Brooklyn, New York, Los Angeles and Alexandria, Virginia, have issued orders that are less sweeping. The Seattle judge also temporarily set aside Trump’s 120-day ban on refugees from those countries."
"The decision by Robart, a 2004 appointee of Republican President George W. Bush, carries unique significance because the states were able to link Trump’s edict to its adverse economic impact, said Geoffrey Hoffman, Director, University of Houston Law Center Immigration Clinic. The order’s effect on jobs and economic stability is likely to make the temporary ruling difficult for the president to overturn before the judge considers a permanent injunction, he said."
“The Washington suit is so much more broad than anything else we’ve seen because it goes into the economic interests of the parties -- that’s a very big development," Hoffman said of a likely appeal by the federal government. “Appeals of temporary orders occur only in very, very extraordinary measures. I doubt it would be successful.”

As soon as Monday , the DOJ  appeal will be heard, and it may become clearer.
"It's obviously an historic decision and an important one for the rule of law and for the people of the state of Washington and the people of our country. I have said from the beginning: it is not the loudest voice that prevails in the courtroom, it is the Constitution, and that's what we heard from Judge Robart today."

Carlos Ponce

Not all of Bush's appointments were his first choice. Democrats were dragging their feet on his initial appointments and he had to fill positions because there was a backlog of cases awaiting judges. There is a reason why they went with Robart. He was a judicial activist who was said to put "people's needs" above the law. "People's needs" as he and Liberals see it.
Notice Robart gave
NO Constitutional reasons,
No judicial precedence,
Cited NO laws to support his decision. He just went by his "feelings". It will be overturned eventually.

George Croix

"The common argument is that the executive order is pointed to nations and not religions, but who are we really kidding here?"

Yourself, the author, evidently.....

Or, perhaps you could explain why Indonesia, the largest Muslim concentration on the planet, and Egypt are not included in this 'religion' ban.....

More pure PC kneejerk bunk ......

imho

Jim Forsythe

Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia are the countries impacted. Why are not other country's included? Could it be a trial balloon being floated, to see how far he can go, or could it  be some other reason?
Listed below are just three, that should have been included, if his reason was, what he stated.

French police shot a man in the shopping mall underneath the Louvre museum in Paris Friday morning after he lunged at soldiers with a large knife. The suspect, a 29-year-old Egyptian
Sudan
The African country of Sudan been a training hub and safe haven for members of several of the more violent international terrorist and radical Islamic groups of the last decade. Among the terror groups known to have operated from Sudan are Hezbollah (Party of God), Palestine Islamic Jihad, Abu Nidal Organization, HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) and several smaller Islamic insurgent groups operating regionally in Ethiopia, Eritrea, Uganda, and Tunisia spreading extremism and killing innocent people based on religion and as part of criminal activities
Pakistan
Pakistan has long been the main staging ground and planning center for Islamic terrorists operating in South Asia


Carlos Ponce

"Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia are the countries impacted. Why are not other country's included?"
The countries named do not have a strong central government, no way to propery vet people from there. The list came from the OBAMA administration.

George Croix

Jim, it was ex-Pres. Obama's list that was used.....it was still in good shape having never been attended to...[whistling]
Catch him on the golf course or maybe get a pass to cross beyond his new house' new wall to keep the undesirables out, and ask him why he left those out.....

I swear, not directed at you, Jim, as I know you better, but most others live in the same fairyland of good intentions and sky pies that the French and German's lived in...until many got their 'tolerant' but_s blown off or crushed or cut or other-atrocities-to-come-thanks-to-open-borders.......

I asked a few days ago how many of these characters keep THEIR doors open and invite come-one-come-all to come in......
Still waiting for the first affirmative.......

Jim Forsythe

The question  as  was not were the list came from, but the real question why was some excluded?
,
"I asked a few days ago how many of these characters keep THEIR doors open and invite come-one-come-all to come in". I know a couple  that just started closing their garage door, they do not lock the front door .

Carlos Ponce

As noted earlier the 7 are "Without a functioning central government". I call them the DIRTY Seven.

Steve Fouga

Yeah, Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan...

The easiest explanation for how the countries were chosen is the one President Trump gave: he chose the ones already identified by the Obama administration as potential sources of terrorists. If I had been in a hurry to enact a travel ban, that's exactly what I would have done. My personal opinion is that he was in too big a hurry, but hey, he's in campaign-promise mode right now. I'm sure the list and the restrictions will be fine-tuned in the days to come.

I definitely sympathize with Muslim Americans, however, because President Trump's order has the appearance of religious persecution. The order emboldens the less enlightened of his supporters to act against Muslim Americans already in our country. If I were a Muslim American, I might be worried about discrimination depending on my circumstances.

Jim Forsythe

"the ones already identified by the Obama administration as potential sources of terrorists." If that's the real reason ,  how hard would it have been to add to add more places? Countries that are doing what he says ,are known , so all was needed was add their name to the order. If we were going to make countries mad at us, then list all that are doing the  bad things to us.
Some are suggesting that he refused to name countries, that  he did business with. If that the reason , we have a problem!

Doyle Beard

more hear say, just the facts as dragnet says

Carlos Ponce

No functioning central government, Jim. You want to add more? The other countries have a FUNCTIONING CENTRAL GOVERNMENT YOU CAN DEAL WITH. The 7 DO NOT.

George Croix

Perfection is a goal...never to be reached......

Jim, we just finished 8 years with a community organizer who became a senator who voted 'present' 95% of the time, and who started his career in a domestic terrorist's house, attended a crazy racist preacher's church who also married and mentored him and cursed this country openly...etc...and then claimed that these things were simply not really so.....
Surely the world won't go boooom in only two weeks of a multi-billionaire businessman in charge who has already accounted for more GOOD jobs to be in that 2 weeks than the Food Stamp President did in 416 of them.....and not a single one of them looks to be costing the taxapyers 2 million bucks each to create like the ideological 'green jobs' initiatives did......

I say again, the two faced hypocrites who would NEVER leave their own home wide open are the ones yammering the loudest about some attempt to control some entry into the country by person's largely unknown.....

Can't fix that......

Jim Forsythe

"I asked a few days ago how many of these characters keep THEIR doors open and invite come-one-come-all to come in". I know a couple  that just started closing their garage door, they do not lock the front door .They are non political

George Croix

Well, that's exactly the same...except, not exactly..........[beam][beam][beam]

George Croix

ps:
I really enjoy the examples of 'love' by the characters jawboning about 'hate'.....

Can't fix that, either.....

Jim Forsythe

What will be Trumps response be after todays in your face action by Iran? Will either side back down? The response by both, will set the tone for years to come.
And yes , it could go boom in two weeks.
DUBAI, Feb 4 (Reuters) - Iran is holding a military exercise on Saturday to test its missile and radar systems, a day after U.S. President Donald Trump's administration imposed sanctions on Tehran for a recent ballistic missile test.
The United States sanctioned 13 individuals and 12 entities related to Iran's missile program me and Trump's national security adviser Michael Flynn said the United States was putting Iran on notice over its "destabilizing activity".
Iran's Revolutionary Guards website said that the aim of the military exercise in Semnan province was to "showcase the power of Iran's revolution and to dismiss the sanctions."
Iranian state news agencies reported that home-made missile systems, radars, command and control centers, and cyber warfare systems would be tested in the drill.

Carlos Ponce

Iran is just feeling Trump out.
Will he be a weak appeasing president like his predecessor or will he be a decisive America doesn't bow down to anybody president?
Notice that Trump put "Iran on Notice. He did NOT draw a red line in the sand.
"Sometimes diplomacy requires a little saber rattling." -Captain Kathryn Janeway, Star Trek Voyager
"September 17, 2009. Iran claims the Shahab-3 is entirely Iranian-made, but U.S. officials say the missile is based on the North Korean "No Dong" missile design and produced in Iran. The United States also accuses China of assisting Iran's missile program."
http://www.iranintelligence.com/missiles

Steve Fouga

In my opinion there's no good reason for the Trump administration to be provocative toward Iran. Iran violated the spirit and possibly the letter of U.N. SCR 2231, but that's a U.N. issue as far as I'm concerned. No need for U.S.-imposed sanctions.

One of President Trump's most compelling campaign arguments against Sec. Clinton was his condemnation of needless wars. Well, I'm not sure why he's playing so tough with Iran, but wars have started with exactly this sort of chest-beating.

The travel ban is an entirely different matter, clearly within the norms of protecting the State, whether you agree with it or not. When Iran took umbrage to the ban, President Trump's response should have been "Eff you, we're a sovereign nation, we'll ban anyone we think we need to." When Iran shot off it's missile, the president's response should have been to request that the U.N. sanction Iran, not for Ambassador Haley to say, "We will be loud," and then sanction them himself.

Jim Forsythe

Will Trump  stop Iran's missile program? Will Iran dare us to stop them?
Will it just be saber rattling , or will it escalate? The next few days, may give a answer.
            Sat Feb 4, 2017 | 5:31pm EST
"A Revolutionary Guards commander said Iran would use its missiles if its security is under threat, as the elite force defied new U.S. sanctions on its missile program  by holding a military exercise on Saturday.
Tensions between Tehran and Washington have risen since a recent Iranian ballistic missile test which prompted U.S. President Donald Trump's administration to impose sanctions on individuals and entities linked to the Revolutionary Guards."
"Trump's national security adviser Michael Flynn said the Washington was putting Iran on notice over its "destabilizing activity", and Trump tweeted Tehran was "playing with fire"
"We are working day and night to protect Iran’s security," head of Revolutionary Guards' aerospace unit, Brigadier General Amir Ali Hajizadeh was quoted as saying by Tasnim news agency.
"If we see smallest misstep from the enemies, our roaring missiles will fall on their heads," he added."
"Tehran confirmed on Wednesday that it had test-fired a new ballistic missile, but said the test did not breach the Islamic Republic's nuclear agreement with world powers or a U.N. Security Council resolution endorsing the pact.
Iran has test-fired several ballistic missiles since the nuclear deal in 2015, but the latest test was the first since Trump entered the White House. Trump said during his election campaign that he would stop Iran's missile program ."


Carlos Ponce

Jim, Iran has been saying "DEATH TO AMERICA" since the Carter administration. It did not start under the Trump administration.
"If we see smallest misstep from the enemies, our roaring missiles will fall on their heads," he added.
Can they reach the United States? No, but they can threaten our troops and allies in the area.
Trump will respond accordingly. Remember how Iran gave up American hostages when Reagan took office? Iran may be hoping for another Carter or Obama. That's not what they're getting.

Steve Fouga

Iran is not worth messing with. Gutter trash. Let them spout BS. Solve the economy.

Jim Forsythe


Ronald Reagan was a fast worker, as it only took him only minutes  to free the 52 Americans. What is happing today is all Trumps, and not the Presidents of the past. The President  is Low on Dutifulness. Mr. Trump likes to defy the status quo, doesn't care about pleasing others, and is quick to make decisions. He won't take orders (or advice) from many people (if anyone).
Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei   seems to be of the same mind set. When these two square off , who knows what will happen. May be bluster, we will see.

"52 Americans were freed as part of a complex agreement that was not completed until early yesterday morning, when the last snags holding up their release were removed by Mr. Carter and his aides, in the final diplomatic action of their Administration.
Under the terms of the accord, as the Algerian plane left Iranian air space, nearly $3 billion of Iranian assets that had been frozen by the United States were returned to Iran, and many more billions of dollars were made available for Iranian repayment of debts.
The 52 Americans were freed only minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in as the 40th President of the United States. The concurrence in timing held millions of Americans at their radios and television sets, following the pageantry of Inauguration Day and the news of the hostages’ release.
The negotiators, who had worked around the clock for five days in an effort to bring the crisis to an end before Mr. Carter left office, said that they had no idea whether the Iranians had deliberately dragged out the talks so as to insure that the hostages were not actually in the air until Mr. Reagan was President."

Carlos Ponce

"What is happing today is all Trumps, and not the Presidents of the past. "
Only a NAIVE PARTISAN would believe that. NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim Forsythe

Only one person will get the credit for what Trump is doing now. Not the President of the past. If he does good or fails it's all on him. When he puts his name on a executive order, it becomes his  for all of history.
Think of Obama  care , It not Bush care..

Carlos Ponce

If you say so, Jim. Historians see it differently. Notice that many of Trump's Executive Orders are to remove Obama's Executive Orders. It goes all the way back to George Washington. To say Trump's actions are "unprecedented" would be in error.

Carlos Ponce

And you must remember that Trump will either renegotiate trade deals or remove them. The current ones were made by previous Republican and Democrats and many place the United States at a disadvantage. Also Trump in now Commander in Chief of an armed forces with insufficient number of troops, arms, equipment. You must remember that the "rules of engagement" 2009-2016 were formulated by politicians. They literally tied the hands of our troops. These will have to be redone.

George Croix

Jim, 'root cause' or 'passed along' are just as valid as they have always been...and just as useful to weed out finger pointers and assign actual cause/effect/blame...either way...either way.....
Everybody who's ever worked a job at a 24/7 business where you relieve somebody else and get the benefits or bad of that previous shift understands that 'on my watch' is not just referencing under current control, but also anything done previously that has to be attended to....or left for the next shift.....
'On my watch' makes for a great movie soundbite, but in the real world of non-9 to 5 jobs it's not very descriptive, and only marginally accurate......

416 weeks vs 2 weeks.....

Perspective.....

Jim Forsythe


 As you are saying Obama's Executive Orders, replaced by Trump's Executive Orders, purges it from history?. Each executive order has a number that ties it to a President. Even when Executive Orders are "removed" , that Presidents.order is still tied to the one who ordered it.

Carlos Ponce

It does not purge it from history. Never said that, never implied that. Mistakes made by previous presidents serve to guide the current president.Most of Trump's actions to date are fixing up Obama's screw ups.

Brian Cann

The AG of The state of Washington claimed the state would be harmed by the ban. Could anyone explain why the previous administrations ban on Iraqi travel was not harmful?! It couldn't be politics at play could it? Selling out our security to make political hay? See, this is the kind of BS that got Trump elected. Keep it up lefties, keep playing games of gotcha. Keep putting Americans in harms way. Watch the democrats in congress shrink even more. The AG of the state of Washington, and this sorry excuse for a judge, are playing games with our safety. Maybe they should visit the Louvre together, or maybe take in a concert at the Bataclan to celebrate their win

Jim Forsythe

   In response to the Bowling Green, Ky. incident  the President took the following measures.
"In 2011 the State Department's issuance of SIVs to Iraqi applicants slowed after two individuals in Kentucky were identified as having possibly been improperly screened; multiple national news outlets reported on the State Department visa processing slowdown while it was occurring and in subsequent years.
Neither President Obama nor the State Department banned or stopped those applications entirely; the slowdown affected a single type of visa from a single country (and not all entry from several countries); the slowdown occurred in order to implement enhanced screening procedures, which remained in place in January 2017." It was a slow down , but not a ban.

Remember the Ebola problem no ban happen then.
2014
Enhanced Ebola Screening to Start at Five U.S. Airports and New Tracking Program for all People Entering U.S. from Ebola-affected Countries

George Croix

Another big win for 'tolerance'.......
Well, a LOT of people in this country would like to be like France........[whistling]

Jim Forsythe


And yes , it could go boom in two weeks
416 weeks vs 2 weeks  Perspective.....When we are dealing with countries that have a different veiw then us , then  yes , it could go boom in two weeks.  Any President could have it happen just that fast. Say Iran attacts a USA ship, how long would it take for our response? 
"The Navy sent the USS Cole to the Gulf of Aden following an attack earlier this week on a Saudi warship off Yemen by Iranian-backed Houthi rebels, a U.S. defense official told Fox News Friday."

,

Carlos Ponce

I hope the current "Rules of Engagement" allow the captain to take action before Iran attacks them.
Will Iran cry foul and disparage us with more "DEATH TO AMERICA" chants? Of course they will.They will claim innocence. Boo hoo.
Will other countries trying to kiss up to Iran so they won't be attacked also condemn the United States? Definitely.
Should we give a flying ________? NO!

George Croix

When Syria went 'boom' over the 'red line' this country's leader played 18 holes....

When Iran threatened to wipe Israel off the map if they had a nuke to do it with this country's leader chewed out the Israelis and then gave the Iranians 10 years and
1.5 Billion bucks to guarantee it can happen....

When the first homegrown terror attacks started this country's leader called them 'workplace violence' or 'lone wolves' and then played some more golf AFTER lecturing Americans on the need to be kind to radical Islamists because they are Muslims AND after doing all possible to screw over honest citizens with more 'gun control'....

ANYTHING can happen in 2 minutes, much less 2 weeks or 416.
What matters is whether the people who make it happen are limited in their destruction and whether they get away with it......
Personally, I figure kicking rear will get more attention and have more positive results with the type folks who do the bad things than kissing it will....
Could be wrong....well, no..........
If...if....Pres. Trump takes good advice and acts accordingly, it's hard to see how putting a hole in a terrorist or several of them is worse for the country than incessantly shooting...for a hole-in-one.......


Jim Forsythe

Carlos said
"What part of the ISIS proclamation "We will use refugee crisis to infiltrate West" don't you understand?
Here is part of what the New York Times posts"
Here's the rest of the story. Leaving out steps 4-20 is called what?

Refugees Entering the U.S. Already  Face a Rigorous Vetting Process
By HAEYOUN PARK and LARRY BUCHANAN JAN. 29, 2017
President Trump has suspended entry of all refugees to the United States for 120 days, and he has barred Syrian refugees indefinitely. The current screening process for all refugees involves many layers of security checks before entry into the country, and Syrians were subject to an additional layer of checks. Sometimes, the process, shown below, takes up to two years.
1. Registration with the United Nations.
2. Interview with the United Nations.
3. Refugee status granted by the United Nations.
4. Referral for resettlement in the United States.
The United Nations decides if the person fits the definition of a refugee and whether to refer the person to the United States or to another country for resettlement. Only the most vulnerable are referred, accounting for less than 1 percent of refugees worldwide. Some people spend years waiting in refugee camps.
5. Interview with State Department contractors.
6. First background check.
7. Higher-level background check for some.
8. Another background check.
The refugee’s name is run through law enforcement and intelligence databases for terrorist or criminal history. Some go through a higher-level clearance before they can continue. A third background check was introduced in 2008 for Iraqis but has since been expanded to all refugees ages 14 to 65.
9. First fingerprint screening; photo taken.
10. Second fingerprint screening.
11. Third fingerprint screening.
The refugee’s fingerprints are screened against F.B.I. and Homeland Security databases, which contain watch list information and past immigration encounters, including if the refugee previously applied for a visa at a United States embassy. Fingerprints are also checked against those collected by the Defense Department during operations in Iraq.
12. Case reviewed at United States immigration headquarters.
13. Some cases referred for additional review.
Syrian applicants must undergo these two additional steps. Each is reviewed by a United States Citizenship and Immigration Services refugee specialist. Cases with “national security indicators” are given to the Homeland Security Department’s fraud detection unit.
14. Extensive, in-person interview with Homeland Security officer.
Most of the interviews with Syrians have been done in Jordan and Turkey.
15. Homeland Security approval is required.
16. Screening for contagious diseases.
17. Cultural orientation class.
18. Matched with an American resettlement agency.
19. Multi-agency security check before leaving for the United States.
Because of the long amount of time between the initial screening and departure, officials conduct a final check before the refugee leaves for the United States.
20. Final security check at an American airport.
Sources: State Department; Department of Homeland Security; Center for American Progress; U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants; Refugee Council USA
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/29/us/refugee-vetting-process.html?_r=0

Carlos Ponce

Because the 7 countries have no centralized government can you really trust any information they give? Only if you're a fool.

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