(56) comments Back to story

Diane Turski

It must be "opposite day" again! Long live King Trump!

Carlos Ponce

Diane, he's not "King" but I thank you for wishing him a "long life". That's a very nice sentiment.[smile]

Kelly Naschke

Great commentary George. Everything you have said is true.

Peggy Schultz

Nice commentary......thx. I needed to hear that. He seems to b coming along(if he’d just grow up & get off Twitter!! Lol have a great day PB

Amanda Jamrok

So you’re going to gloss over the fact that Trump incited violence at his rallies, calls Americans SOBs for exercising their right to protest at an NFL game, but calls white nationalists “fine people”, called for the death penalty for Hispanic and African American men who were exonerated of a crime they did not commit. Advocated for the Russians to hack his political opponent’s campaign and you have the gall to criticize Obama for inviting a “race baiter” to the White House? What kind of American values are those? Like it or not, Obama was good for America. Progress and equality for people who have not always been blessed with the privileges you have most likely experienced is a good thing. I can now marry the person I choose to, regardless of marriage. I can get health coverage regardless of my pre-existing condition. If you could please cite your sources regarding the senators and representatives advocating for assassination? The rules in the discussion box on this page say to “Be Truthful.” I ask that you do the same.

Doyle Beard

Such skewed post, pathetic.

Amanda Jamrok

Please tell me how this is skewed? Everything I have said is factual. Opinions can be met with opinions.

Carlos Ponce

"Everything I have said is factual." Thanks for the laugh Amanda. [beam][beam][beam]

Carlos Ponce

Amanda, I suggest you read:
"Democratic heads roll after video shows agitators planted at Trump rallies"
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/18/undercover-video-shows-democrats-saying-they-hire-/
And from the Liberal perspective, Politifact:
"Trump says Clinton and Obama paid people to cause violence at his rallies"
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/oct/20/trump-says-clinton-and-obama-caused-violence-his-r/
"...Zulema Rodriguez, bragged at the Republican National Convention that she 'did the Chicago event where they shut down' the event. According to the video, she’s referring to Trump’s March 11 Chicago rally that was preemptively cancelled due to a massive anti-Trump protest, whose participants then clashed with Trump supporters, causing several injuries."
"....campaign finance reports that showed the Clinton campaign paid Rodriguez $1,610 in Arizona...."

Emile Pope

Nothing that you cited shows that what she wrote is false. Typical Republican "well what about?" garbage...

Carlos Ponce

Whatever, Emile. Apparently, you can't handle the truth.

Carlos Ponce

And by the way, Emile I'm a Conservative, not a member of the Republican Party.

Carlos Ponce

" the fact" Amanda??????
All that you post is nothing but Democratic Party rhetoric. But continue posting. Teacher says, "Every time a Democratic lackey posts another pro-Trump voter is created." I'm the teacher.[beam]

Carlos Ponce

Trump tweeted, "There's blame on both sides...you also had people that were very fine people on both sides."
Along with the evil Nazis protesting taking down the statue there were HISTORICAL PRESERVATIONISTS protesting taking down the statue, renaming the park. Those are the "fine people".
There are "fine people" in this county who object to removing the statue in front of the old Galveston County Courthouse. They call themselves HISTORICAL PRESERVATIONISTS. The are NOT NAZIS. They are NOT WHITE SUPREMACISTS. They are NOT WHITE NATIONALISTS.
Trump said, "You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people—on both sides—you had people in that group—excuse me. Excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue, and the re-naming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture, and you had people—and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, OK? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.”
GET IT? Trump said, "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally."

Emile Pope

So you can read Trump's mind? Exactly when has he criticized white supremacists? He hires them!

Kelly Naschke

Amanda is living proof of the lefts ability to brainwash it’s misguided constituents. How about just ONE fact to support your comments Amanda. It’s akso FACT that the violence at his rallies was bought and paid for by the left.

Amanda Jamrok

Kelly, I would be happy to provide my sources, they are all videos and tweets directly from the horse’s mouth. There is no doubt that Trump said all of the things that I presented. I will make you a whole spread sheet with links to each video, if you’d like. Trump incited violence at his rallies by his own words. “Rough him up, get em out” etc. There is even a lawsuit going forward with these accusations. Again, let me know if you would like the link.

Emile Pope

Just a waste of time. People like Natschke always ask for proof but never accept the proof when given. Just ask them what kind of proof they require and hear the sounds of silence. Confirmation bias is a sad thing...

Curtiss Brown

Thank you for your good work, Amanda, and showing conclusively that folks around here don't really care about the reality of their President. Let's continue to pray that his staff can keep him in line and not let him embarrass the nation any further.

Carlos Ponce

" I will make you a whole spread sheet with links to each video, if you’d like. "
Go right ahead, Amanda but don't truncate speeches or omit certain facts when you do so.I've already shown you that Trump was not calling white nationalists “fine people” is taking things out of context and NOT TRUE. Or what part of "I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally," don't you understand?
Be ready because I will scrutinize any obfuscation, omission or downright lie that is posted. And I will back each scrutiny with facts from reputable and even Left wing websites.

Kelly Naschke

Sure Amanda. Send your sources....I would love to see what partisan, biased sources you think are factual and legitimate.

Steve Fouga

I think she's got you, Leroy!

Direct quotes from President Trump. I can see how hard it'll be for you to argue against the president. [whistling]

Kelly Naschke

See above Steve. Carlos pretty much put a spanking on Amanda and saved me the effort.

Emile Pope

So did he prove her false?

Carlos Ponce

Listen and read the actual facts of each allegation. You will find hyperbole, obfuscation and omission of details mixed in there. In other words, typical Leftist talking points and propaganda.

Emile Pope

That's your way of saying that you can't prove her wrong so you tried to change the subject away to something else. She offered to supply proof and you responded with jibberish....

Carlos Ponce

Pray for enlightenment for Emile!
I provided PROOF, not gibberish. Each of her points can be taken apart with documentation. Any daily reader of these forums can point out where each point has been debunked.

Kelly Naschke

If your comment wasn't so sad Emile, it would actually be funny. A simple request for unbiased proof doesn't seem unreasonable. Why is it unreasonable for you?

Emile Pope

What sources do you find credible? No one but Fox is your answer...

Kelly Naschke

Emile exemplifies the exact hate that George speaks of. Thanks for proving his point for us.

Jarvis Buckley

If these comments wouldn't be so scary. They would be hilarious. Progressive liberals live a very different life than this old man does.
I still respect their right to have different views than I have. That's what our soldiers fight for. The freedom to express our views , as we see them. As for me I think our President Trump is wonderful.
Sleep well my sweet liberals 8 years
Will pass faster than you would believe.✌️

Jim Forsythe

Trump has not tweeted or said, he was kidding about the treason commit.
Other have said he was kidding, but he has not.
During a speech outside Cincinnati, Trump called Democrats who didn't applaud for him treasonous. With almost half of Congress not doing so, Trump thinks they are un-American because they did not agree with his message. Some countries require people to clap when they are told to do so. I hope we do not become one.
Treason is punishable by death. If a death sentence is not imposed, defendant's face a minimum penalty of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine (18 U.S.C.A. § 2381).
Tammy Duckworth, a Black Hawk helicopter pilot who received the Purple Heart after she lost both her legs in Iraq when her helicopter was stuck by a grenade said.
"We don't live in a dictatorship or a monarchy. I swore an oath—in the military and in the Senate—to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, not to mindlessly cater to the whims of Cadet Bone Spurs and clap when he demands I clap "
When you have a president float the idea that not clapping at moments when he believes clapping is appropriate sends a very powerful message to the country about how we do (and should) deal with those who disagree with us. And that goes for whether he was "joking" or not.
It's a very bad message -- no matter whether you agree with Trump or not.Even the suggestion of criminalizing dissent should send a chill down the spine of anyone who counts themselves as a fan of democracy. The right to dissent -- without fear of retribution -- sits at the heart of what differentiates America from authoritarian countries around the world.

Carlos Ponce

"During a speech outside Cincinnati, Trump called Democrats who didn't applaud for him treasonous.."
No, Jim. Did you hear the actual statement. Check the transcript.
He chided the Democrats when they did not applaud the announcement of the lowest African-American unemployment rate.
"You’re up there, you’ve got half the room going totally crazy, wild — they loved everything, they want to do something great for our country. And you have the other side, even on positive news — really positive news, like that — they were like death and un-American. Un-American."
Someone in the audience then yells, "TREASONOUS!"
"Somebody said, “treasonous.” I mean, yeah, I guess, why not? (Laughter.) Can we call that treason? Why not? (Applause.) I mean, they certainly didn’t seem to love our country very much."
When he praised the armed forces, the Democrats did not clap.
When he praised Coast Guard Petty Officer Ashlee Leppert who saved 40 lives in Houston during Harvey - the Democrats did not clap.
When he praised firefighter David Dahlberg who saved children during the California fires, - the Democrats did not clap.
When Trump said, " To everyone still recovering in Texas, Florida, Louisiana, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, California, and everywhere else — we are with you, we love you, and we will pull through together, ' the Democrats did not clap.
When he praised Steve Staub and Sandy Keplinger of Staub Manufacturing of Ohio for handing out bonuses to employees like Corey Adams - the Democrats did not clap.
When he added, "Corey is an all-American worker. He supported himself through high school, lost his job during the 2008 recession, and was later hired by Staub, where he trained to become a welder. Like many hardworking Americans, Corey plans to invest his tax‑cut raise into his new home and his two daughters’ education. Please join me in congratulating Corey, " the Democrats did not join in the congratulations.
When he praised 12-year old Preston Sharp for placing flags on veterans graves - the Democrats did not clap.
Everyone clapped for Evelyn Rodriguez, Freddy Cuevas, Elizabeth Alvarado, and Robert Mickens who lost two teenage daughters who were killed by MS-13 gang members - except the Democrats.
When he praised Homeland Security Investigations Special Agent Celestino Martinez (CJ) whose ICE team, everyone except for the Democrats joined in the praise.
When he praised Police officer Ryan Holets and his wife Rebecca for adopting the child of a heroin user all joined in their joy, except the Democrats.
When he praised Army Staff Sergeant Justin Peck who saved the life of a fellow soldier Kenton Stacy in Raqqa, Democrats did not extend their congratulations.
etc., etc., etc.
Called them "treasonous" for not applauding HIM? No. The audience member called them treasonous for not applauding fellow Americans and good news for all Americans.
"Somebody said, “treasonous.” I mean, yeah, I guess, why not? (Laughter.) Can we call that treason? Why not? (Applause.) I mean, they certainly didn’t seem to love our country very much."

Jim Forsythe

When Trump says "why not", he is agreeing that they are "TREASONOUS!. Trump did not say, that It was not a "TREASONOUS! act, and did not say, you are wrong in even suggesting this, but added "they certainly didn’t seem to love our country very much", because they did not do what Trump thinks they should.
Does Tammy Duckworth not love America, after what she has gone thru? She is just one, that found Trump commit, bad.
It's a very bad message -- no matter whether you agree with Trump or not. Even the suggestion of criminalizing dissent should send a chill down the spine of anyone who counts themselves as a fan of democracy. The right to dissent -- without fear of retribution -- sits at the heart of what differentiates America from authoritarian countries around the world.


Carlos Ponce

Jim, count the number of times Trump has been charged with treason by Liberals, the media and even GCDN forum posters. We all know he's a COUNTER PUNCHER. Like you posted "It's a very bad message".. But he didn't start it, the Liberal anti-Trumps did. He's just punching back. That's human nature.

Emile Pope

All that just to say nothing...

Carlos Ponce

No one ever "says" anything in these forums, Emile. They type using a keyboard and post. Are you hearing things? [rolleyes]

Jim Forsythe

Lawmakers balked at the potential cost of President Donald Trump's desired military parade after news broke Tuesday that the Pentagon was exploring possible dates.

Zeldin, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee
Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., also expressed concerns about the parade, telling CNN on Tuesday night, "I don't believe we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue."

The President is asking for more money for the military, could part of this request, be for funding this parade? It is estimated to cost 18 to 20 million dollars if tanks are included. Is his idea to have a Russian type parade, or one like they have in France, with other countries leading the parade?

Carlos Ponce

This has come up before:
From Leftist Huffington and Snopes and WAPO:
"The military 'may come marching down Pennsylvania Avenue,'Trump told the Washington Post in an interview . “That military may be flying over New York City and Washington, D.C., for parades. I mean, we’re going to be showing our military.
The claim that Trump wanted a 'full Soviet-style inaugural parade, with tanks, missiles and missile launchers' was widely aggregated by other online outlets, but we’ve so far been unable to locate any corroboration of it other than the unnamed 'source involved in inaugural planning' reference by the Huffington Post."
https://www.snopes.com/trump-military-inaugural-parade/
Likewise in this new suggestion NO TANKS NOR NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE MENTIONED - just troops marching and a flyover.
"President Trump is incredibly supportive of America's great service members who risk their lives every day to keep our country safe. He has asked the Department of Defense to explore a celebration at which all Americans can show their appreciation," Sarah Sanders said.
http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/06/politics/military-parade-trump/index.html
Again, NO TANKS NOR NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE MENTIONED. But you do have either a vivid imagination or a FAKE news source, Jim.[beam]

Jim Forsythe

This parade has nothing to do with the inaugural parade. It's about the one he wants this year.
Carlos if a parade happens ,what type of military vehicles and troops would like to see. Nuclear weapons have been part of the talk.
Rep. Lee Zeldin (R), a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee said ,"I don't believe we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue."

February 7, 2018
White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders confirmed on Tuesday that the proposal was under consideration, but it is not yet clear how the government would pay for such an event, which could cost millions of dollars.
2/7/18 "The marching orders were: I want a parade like the one in France," a military official familiar with the matter said in the report. "This is being worked at the highest levels of the military." Trump's idea was reportedly triggered by a French military parade he attended in July, in honor of Bastille Day, according to The Post. Trump was met with a grand display of military vehicles and troops, to which he later noted to Macron that "it was one of the greatest parades I've ever seen."
02/07/18 D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser on Wednesday also responded to the idea of the parade, saying through a spokeswoman that if Trump wants to hold a parade in D.C., “he will have to pay for it” himself.

Carlos Ponce

Actual quote, "I don't believe we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT." The only reason Zeldin brought it up was because Don Lemon of CNN brought it up!
Look at the CNN video.
https://www.scoopnest.com/user/CNNTonight/961111048781643776-rep-lee-zeldin-on-president-trump-seeking-a-military-parade-cost-would-be-a-factor

Jim Forsythe

Carlos, if a parade happens ,what type of military vehicles and troops would like to see.
What would be the reason for the parade, to celebrate 100 years since the end of WW1, or some other reason?
"I don't believe we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT." is what he said. Others have said the same, but it will become clear, if a parade happens.
The link that you posted had a lot of tanks, missile launchers. scuds ,and such. in the clips
Also from your link. is the following.
CBS EVENING NEWS
The Pentagon is working on plans for a grand military parade in Washington at President Trump’s request
But there are concerns over its cost and what kind of message it would send to the rest of the world
Also
PBS NewsHour
Top White House and Pentagon officials confirm that President Trump wants a military parade in Washington, and that plans are being drawn up.
And
The Situation Room
@CNNSitRoom
Retired Rear Adm. @johnfkirby63 on Trump's proposed military parade: "The troops don't need to be thanked this way ... a better way to show that support is through local outreach" and helping them reintegrate into society

Carlos Ponce

"Carlos, if a parade happens ,what type of military vehicles and troops would like to see."
Troops marching and a flyover is what the White House asks for. Good enough for me.

"The link that you posted had a lot of tanks, missile launchers. scuds ,and such. in the clips."
DUH, Jim, that was from CNN not the White House nor the President. CNN does not make policy.

Jim, were you trying to pull a fast one by truncating Congressman Zeldin's remarks or were you citing "news" sources that like to mislead?

Jim Forsythe

The only difference is "AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT" does not change the message..
In the link you provide, I was not able to find the quote and I went thru a bunch of them. I agreed with you, because to me it did not change the meaning, and I sure you quoted, was as you say .Was part of the quote in caps as you have it,or did you change it?
"Jim, were you trying to pull a fast one by truncating Congressman Zeldin's remarks or were you citing "news" sources that like to mislead?" No I did not shorten the end. I suspect that most news group, did not see how this changed the message ( the only group would be CNN the one you said was doing interview), If they had included "AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT" they would had to go into what show this was from, and so on . Most news sources have a limit on word count , and this may have been that, it did not alter the meaning.?
How does omitting "AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT" change the message?
I did find “Cost would be a factor,” Rep. Lee Zeldin (R-N.Y.) said on CNN on Tuesday night. “I don’t believe that we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue. … If there’s an idea that could have a greater celebration — obviously I have a question or two as far as costs go — but I’d be all for hearing out any ideas to make a more special July 4 Independence Day experience here in Washington, D.C." They also changed it .

Carlos Ponce

Jim if you can't figure out how omitting "AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT" changes the tone of the messagethere's no hope for you. I thought you were intelligent enough to figure out that one. Guess not.

Jim Forsythe

Carlos, tell me how it changes it.
If one was not reading it on CNN , what would that person think ,reading the following , "as you were just asking during that last segment".
No context, and no ground work for a reader to know, what it means, and what segment are they talking about ?
What you quoted, was not the way it was posted in CNN. Why did you add Caps? As it changes the tone.
"ZELDIN: And I don't believe that we should have tanks and nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue, as you were just asking during that last segment. "
You may be able to find it the way you posted , somewhere other then CNN, but I have not been able to.
To berate me, for something that may be only on one site(CNN) is not nice.

Carlos Ponce

"Carlos, tell me how it changes it."
Okay, let me make this as simple as possible.
The phrase as you presented makes it appear that Rep Lee Zeldin initiated the idea of tanks and nuclear weapons. When you read the ENTIRE statement it is clear Zeldin was just reacting to overreach from Don Lemon, CNN and other Leftist sources. It is clearly evident that the thought of tanks and nukes NEVER EVER crossed Zeldin's mind until Don Lemon interjected it into the discussion.
By truncating his exact quote you made it appear as "SEE, SEE! Even Republicans, even a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, think that Trump wants tanks and nukes in the parade."
When you read or hear his entire quote anyone with intelligence can see that is not true.
Truncating the quote is obfuscation, taking things out of context misleading the intent of the original. I hope you get it now.
Similar to when NBC truncated George Zimmerman's 911 call.
Instead of -
Zimmerman: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."
Dispatcher: "O.K., and this guy — is he white, black or Hispanic?"
Zimmerman: "He looks black."
NBC broadcast: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black," giving the impression Zimmerman was racist.
You or your FAKE NEWS source did exactly the same.

Carlos Ponce

And I added caps for emphasis to highlight what YOU LEFT OUT changing the original.

Jim Forsythe

A CNN quote was the same source you used, and they did not include the "AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT" quote. So are they fake news on the first one with it, or the second without it. A quote is inside of "quote" marks , not outside.
When you quoted "I don't believe we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT." you did not use the whole quote. The rest of the quote is below.
This is a quote from CNN “I don’t believe that we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue. … If there’s an idea that could have a greater celebration — obviously I have a question or two as far as costs go — but I’d be all for hearing out any ideas to make a more special July 4 Independence Day experience here in Washington, D.C."
Rep. Lee Zeldin (R), a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee said ,"I don't believe we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue." How does this morph into ,"Even Republicans, even a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, think that Trump wants tanks and nukes in the parade."?
Rep. Lee Zeldin (R clearly states that "I don't believe we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue." how does this transfer into Trump wanting tanks and nuclear weapons?

Carlos Ponce

Jim, forget it. There's no hope for you. Why you cannot grasp such a simple concept is beyond comprehension. Whoever left off the second phrase is CLEARLY trying to manipulate the congressman's intent. Even a child can grasp the concept
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFUD0XSRke0

Jim Forsythe

When you left off the second part of the quote, you are CLEARLY trying to manipulate the congressman's intent.

You went from thinking that the parade was the one that never happened in January of 2016, to being upset over a difference in a quote that was presented two ways, by one source ,CNN. Now you think I have no hope.
You left of part of the quote, and try to say that is ok ,but my leaving off a part that is found only at CNN, who gives two different quotes is a plot, and you think that I have some type of grand plan. To say, that I was using some type of hidden message, that Republicans' are going to have big military equipment in the parade, is just beyond , even for you.

This is the whole quote from CNN, the same source you used. This is the whole quote that I was not aware of, but you were, and you did not choose to use the whole quote
“I don’t believe that we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue. … If there’s an idea that could have a greater celebration — obviously I have a question or two as far as costs go — but I’d be all for hearing out any ideas to make a more special July 4 Independence Day experience here in Washington, D.C."

Carlos Ponce

Whatever Jim.
FACT: Don Lemon first brought up the idea of tanks and nukes.

Jim Forsythe

Congressman Zeldin's response to Don Lemon was “I don’t believe that we should have tanks or nuclear weapons going down Pennsylvania Avenue. … If there’s an idea that could have a greater celebration — obviously I have a question or two as far as costs go — but I’d be all for hearing out any ideas to make a more special July 4 Independence Day experience here in Washington, D.C." All the other add on's, does not change the meaning With CNN adding "AS YOU WERE ASKING DURING THAT LAST SEGMENT" 'to some of the quotes, not the others, does not change the meaning.'s

Carlos Ponce

[yawn]
Give it up, Jim. You just don't get it. I suppose you never will. It seems to be beyond your level of comprehension. So sad![sad]

Jarvis Buckley

That last sentence in your comments Jim doesn't show your patriotism .
I have read many of your comments over the years. Haven't agreed with you on many of them, but I always looked at you as a patriot be it a progressive patriot. But that last sentence, is casting a doubt.

Jim Forsythe

This is from. Mayor Muriel Bowser, is it unpatriotic for him to say, that DC his city, is not going to pay for it? Or are you referring to some other sentence?
Mayor Muriel Bowser on Wednesday also responded to the idea of the parade, saying through a spokeswoman that if Trump wants to hold a parade in D.C., “he will have to pay for it” himself.

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it Clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK.
Don't Threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
Be Truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone or anything.
Be Nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
Be Proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
Share with Us. We'd love to hear eyewitness accounts, the history behind an article.

Thank you for Reading!

Please log in, or sign up for a new account and purchase a subscription to read or post comments.