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Updated: January 18, 2018 @ 10:52 pm
January 18, 2018
Mr. Ahmed, thank you for your helpful explanation. Only through learning more about each other can we live together. My hope here is that some of the usual crackpots don’t post acidic comments attacking you or your faith.
But I hope you understand, Dr. Ahmed , why non-Muslims associate the phrase "Allah Akbar" with terrorism because of It's use or as you state "misuse" at killings. Have a blessed day, sir.
Please tell me, esquire, why you think he does not.
Did I post he did not? Just pointing out the elephant in the room.
And the elephant is?
Jim posts "And the elephant is?" Hilarious Jim! You're smarter than that. Think about it. Why the column by Dr. Ahmed? Thousands have been killed, maimed after that phrase was uttered by Jihadists. When you hear that phrase you may think of of the Doctor's explanation but others think of terrorism.
From JJ CohnIt could be used in many different contexts, that phrase; meaning essentially either “God is Great” or “God is Great(-er)” with the latter implication being that God is greater than everything, basically. It’s used by Muslims daily during prayer.But historically it was probably almost surely used by Islamic armies as a sort of battle cry as well; something that would be called out before or during battle. It is clearly in that sense then that the Islamic terrorist would be intending to use it.This could reflect a bit on the kernel of what one might nowadays see as either a simple theological truth and nothing more — or else “part of the problem”, so to speak, depending on one’s point of view. That, in Islam, there really isn’t or there was not ever really intended to be any sort of real separation between worlds. By that I mean: separation between the world of prayer, and the world of battle. The world of mosque, and the ‘state’. And so on.Islam —meaning the Koran in combination with the shariah as interpreted by an accepted school of Islamic judicial study — can provide a sort of constitution in and of itself if Muslims want to use it in that manner (in which really it was always classically applied, up to more modern times).Therefore phrases like this (Allahu Akbar) can be used just as easily during your daily prayer as they can after you successfully shoot down an enemy helicopter, if you’re a devout Muslim who is currently at war. There’s no real sense of ‘separation’ between those two actions, necessarily, and in Islam there actually need not be.It’s not hypocritical or at all strange as it might seem (I don’t know) to a Christian or American today to say in English the phrase “God is Great”, right before doing an act of violence ~ whether in a context of war or otherwise. In our language that would feel odd and just somehow not right. To them it’s not uncommon really.
Why do Muslims shout Allah Akbar when they are forcing homosexuals to jump off of rooftops to their death or when a woman has been proclaimed to be an adulteress, is buried up to her waist, and stoned to death by the entire village? What is the relevance in these situations?
Why do crackpots always use guilt by association to demean and insult members of another ethnic group or religious community? Why do crackpots always beg the question?
Is that your way of avoiding the question Casey?
Yes, but I am avoiding the question because it is a logical fallacy in the form of a question. Let me pose another example: What do non-muslims shout when they push a homosexual off a roof or stone an adulteress?
Cary can you cite an example of that?
Cary how about when a Muslim shoots and kills 49 in an Orlando gay nightclub?http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html
Whew! What a relief! I thought you wanted me to explain what Begging the Question means. That's hard. Thank you for the clarification.I get it. Okay, here's a few.Non-muslim kills 26https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shootingNon-muslim kills 58.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shootingNon-muslim kills 9 in Charleston church.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylann_Roof
There are lots of examples, you knew that when you posed the question. The point of this exercise eludes me.
Cary, did any of the killings by non-Muslims involve praise of a deity such as "Allah Akbar"? That is the topic of the forum.
By the way, Devin Kelley did volunteer as a helper in the Kingsville FBC Vacation Bible School to children aged 4 to 6 one night in 2014 but was an atheist at the time of the shooting."He was the first atheist I met. He went Air Force after high school, got discharged but I don't know why," Patrick Boyce, who attended New Braunfels High School with Kelley, told DailyMail.com.https://www.christianpost.com/news/texas-gunman-devin-kelley-was-atheist-who-taught-vacation-bible-school-205596/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html"He was always talking about how people who believe in God we're stupid and trying to preach his atheism". - Nina Rose Nava, New Braunfels alumnus who attended High School with Kelley.Michael Goff added: 'He was weird but never that damn weird, always posting his atheist sh** like Nina wrote.
Carlos, if you made the rules, you would win on a technicality. But you don't make the rules, so you don't.
I don't make the rules but I stand with the truth and back them, Cary.
When reading this I can't help but remember the Qorum tells it's students that lying is an acceptable way to get what you want.
That's not quite right. It sounds more like it came from "The Art of the Deal."
Cary, the practice is called "taqiyya"."Essentially, the Koran suggests that a person who faces religious persecution can withhold the identity of their faith in order to avoid bodily harm or death. The concept was particularly embraced by Shiites, who took steps to hide their religious beliefs from the majority Sunnis."https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/09/22/ben-carsons-claim-that-taqiyya-encourages-muslims-to-lie-to-achieve-your-goals/But modern usage suggests it is okay to lie to gain an advantage then or in the future, like signing a treaty now to regroup and gather forces for a future battle.A similar term "kitmān" has a more specific meaning of dissimulation by silence or omission.That sounds similar to Hillary's testimonies under oath - "I do not recall" "I do not remember".
There are times when it is better not to tell the truth and there are times when it is better to lie in order to conceal the truth. "Stay in line, there is plenty of room in the lifeboats for everybody."
You were doing pretty good until you threw in that gratuitous insult about Hillary. I think you have been keeping bad company lately. I would have understood your example even if you had not mentioned Hillary, your great boogeywoman (hmmm. The spell checker likes boogeyman, but not boogeywoman. Very interesting.).
Since the 2000s, taqiyya has become a frequently invoked concept in debates surrounding criticism of Islam and especially Islamic extremism. Islamic scholars tend to emphasize that taqiyya is only permissible under duress, and that the inflationary use of the term qualifies as "a staple of right-wing Islamophobia in North America" (Mohammad Fadel 2013), or "Taqiyya libel against Muslims"[ while their critics accuse them of practicing "taqiyya about taqiyya" (Raymond Ibrahim, 2014)
Cary, you brought up "The Art of the deal" and I brought up Hillary. Hillary's obfuscations and memory lapses are said to be a lawyer's trick - you're not lying if you simply do not remember. A common ploy used by Hillary."On 39 separate occasions, Clinton told the FBI that she did not 'recall' or remember key elements of the training or classified information process."http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi-report-highlights/index.htmlSame thing happened at the Whitewater - Travel Gate hearings in the 90s.Now Cary, show me where in "The Art of the Deal" it says it is okay to lie."CLAIM: Donald Trump wrote in 'The Art of the Deal' that if you tell people a lie three times, they will believe it.Rating: FALSE"https://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-lie-truth/
There are over 100 verses in the Quran that call for war with non-believers (infidels) for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic and call for chopping off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. How about you explaining this for us either Dr Ahmed, or Mr Semar?
Leroy: [There are over 100 verses in the Quran that call for war with non-believers (infidels) for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic and call for chopping off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. How about you explaining this for us either Dr Ahmed, or Mr Semar?]
The Bible has many similar scriptures calling for genocide, burning, and other ravages. Maybe you could start by explaining them first.
I know it’s tough Little Marky....but try and keep up. We were talking specifically about the Quran. I know that the onset of dementia impedes your thought process... but let’s address the question at hand as it stands and NOT the questions that fit your narrative and rhetoric. And just so you know...I have plenty of issues with the Bible...but once again...the Bible wasn’t my focus. The Quran is. So try again pal. I challenge YOU to specifically answer BOTH of my questions.
Leroy: [ We were talking specifically about the Quran. ]
You might have been, I was discussing religions in general. Do you consider Christianity a peaceful or loving religion Leroy?
Look at the verses cited from the New Testament from the website you provide, Little Marky.John 15:6Jesus is talking about the Final Judgement, not of actions to non-believers.Matthew 10:34-37Jesus is just telling us his teachings will divide families. This is true.Luke 14:26 Jesus talks about those who cannot be his disciples.Jesus put aside some of the Old Testament so they no longer apply. He asks us to love one another and love your enemies. No "genocide, burning, and other ravages" in this life. But the "burning" does come in the after-life for non-believers. The article you cite was written by an Atheist - and it shows a lack of understanding what is written in the Bible.
Gee....little Marky gets his bass handed to him in a hand basket yet AGAIN.
Yes Carlos looks like this guy is talking about some scriptures in the old testament. Needs some updating
Leroy: [Gee....little Marky gets his bass handed to him in a hand basket yet AGAIN.]
Are you still dealing with your spanking fetish Leroy?
Poor Carlos, ever the apologist.
Poor Little Marky, ever the Left wing stooge.
This is a highly entertaining thread!
Myself, I'm for religious tolerance. Problem solved. [cool]
Problem solved? No Steve. As long as extremists use that term after committing heinous crimes the problem persists. I hope and pray that you never have to experience what those killed by terrorists had to experience and the last words they heard were "Allah Akbar". And think of the families of those slain. Every time they hear that phrase they think of how their loved one was killed. Would your "religious tolerance" have prevented any killings?
Carlos asks: "Would your "religious tolerance" have prevented any killings?"
Of course! Religious tolerance would prevent all of the religiously motivated ones, such as the ones when people scream "Allahu akbar" when committing the act. That's my point.
It is amazing to me how many have been deceived by the falsehoods of Islam. If people truly want to know what Islam is all about they might want to try and read it and then they might see that it is NOT a religion of peace as they so proclaim.... There are many parts where it states that they are to lie to protect themselves (God does not teach us to lie) It also teaches that they are to put their foot on the necks of Christians, Jews and all unbelievers until they are either forced to convert or they are killed.... Islam teaches that they are to hate their enemies, where Christ teaches that we are to love our enemies and to pray for them.... Gods word says that my people perish for the lack of knowledge, just like there is an old saying that those who know not their past and doomed to repeat it in the future.... Islam teaches domination.... Don't believe me sit down and start reading not only the Qur'an, read the Hadith...
Mr. Ahmed. It looks like many of the usual suspects have turned out in force with their predicatable Islamophobic comments. Apparently, they never read the book of Joshua.
It's not islamophobia. Tell that to the friends and family of those killed who heard "Allah Akbar" at their murder.
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