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Updated: January 17, 2018 @ 1:52 pm
January 17, 2018
Question: What stopped a bad guy shooting up a church in Sutherland Springs with a semi-automatic rifle?Answer: A good guy with a semi-automatic rifle.
After 26 people were killed...
"After 26 people were killed." If only one of the parishioners was armed..........
Carlos: [ If only one of the parishioners was armed..........]
Listen to yourself Carlos, bemoaning the fact that people don't come to church armed. That's loyalty to the NRA above Jesus by my measure.
As I greet people to our church service, I know some are carrying legally. We have no problem with that. We welcome all. Little Marky is invited too! [beam]Jesus said, "...one who does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36The sword was the weapon of choice for that age.So Jesus had no problem with people being armed to defend themselves.
Carlos: [So Jesus had no problem with people being armed to defend themselves.]
So your interpretation of Jesus is as a believer in force-at-the-ready? And the stuff about "turn the other cheek," that was what?
After the resurrection, his disciples went through the known world with the mission to spread the Good News. They would be welcome at some locales, not so much at others and were instructed to remove the dust from their sandals. But in other places they were to encounter hostility and aggression. That's why the swords were mentioned. Check Bible commentaries to Luke 22: 36. "the phrase is expressive of the danger they would be exposed to, and of their need of protection" Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible"They must now expect that their enemies would be more fierce than they had been, and they would need weapons." Matthew Henry Commentary"Buy a sword. This is for defence clearly. The reference is to the special mission in Galilee ). They are to expect persecution and bitter hostility. Robertson's commentary"In contrast to the ministry of the Twelve and of the seventy-two during the period of Jesus in the future period of the church the missionaries must be prepared for the opposition they will face in a world hostile to their preaching." US Catholic BishopsSlaps on the cheek are usually not lethal.
Carlos: [Check Bible commentaries to Luke 22: 36.]
Most commentaries appear to disagree with your violent interpretation of Jesus' words.
_"“No more of this!” (Luke 22:51); “Put away your sword!” (Matt. 26:52; John 18:11)."_
Out of context since Jesus knew what was supposed to happen to him. The guards were after Him but not his disciples. Not exactly self defense to attack them.
Carlos: [Out of context since Jesus knew what was supposed to happen to him. The guards were after Him but not his disciples. Not exactly self defense to attack them.]
Most scholars appear to say you are the one quoting out of context given Jesus' message of sacrifice and benevolence.
Most scholars???? That's I posted Biblical commentaries from several from several Biblical scholars. Which "scholars" are you referencing? I don't see you listing any.
Carlos: [Most scholars????]
That's two. I got lots more.[beam]
he could have killed more
He shot himself to death.
" (CNN) Devin Patrick Kelley, the gunman who killed 26 people at a Texas Baptist church, suffered three gunshot wounds, including a self-inflicted shot to the head, Texas authorities said Monday.Kelley, 26, was also shot in the leg and torso by an armed citizen, said Freeman Martin of the Texas Department of Public Safety, citing autopsy results. Kelley was found dead in his vehicle."http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-church-shooting/index.htmlBut he dropped his weapon after being shot on the church grounds twice by an armed citizen. After he dropped his weapon, he fled firing a shot to his head with a separate weapon.What stopped an armed bad guy with a semi-automatic rifle?A good guy with a semi-automatic rifle.
Mr. Freeman while I respect your opinion I will also note you have cherry picked items from over many decades to justify your position. And as you have also noted that for better or worse the attitudes towards gun ownership have changed. Some people are more pro and some are more against it. The 2nd amendment is about a constitutional right and not the NRA. The NRA has evolved over time to defend the 2nd amendment as the attacks towards the 2nd amendment by those who do not want anyone to legally have a gun for any reason.....ever! It is actually quite simple. If you don't like the NRA then don't support it. However those who feel differently may chose to support it. Doesn't having different opinions make America the greatest place in the world?
George Washington believed that having an armed citizenry maintained their status as citizens and not subjects! The NRA was founded to teach freed men to defend themselves from the democrats of the times and to the corrupt government that turned its head and allowed the oppression. members of the NRA have continually stood at the front of the line to defend the rights of this nation, while liberal lemmings line up to jump off any cliff a corrupt politician points to . It is not about blasting a small animal into oblivion its about fine tuning your self to turn back oppression in any form, whether it an enemy airplane or a nut job shooting up a church. I'll stand with those who are ready.
My opinion why the NRA has begun more support of the 2nd amendment is the accelerated attack on it by many people and groups like Dan Freeman.
Spot on Glenn Coffey! This is why we have the 2nd amendment. I grew up with hunters yes, I enjoy the benefit of wild game but the original intent was to prevent our being overtaken by enemies foreign AND domestic which would be the liberal leftists these days. Now the question is when will Marky Mark jump in with his chuffing and puffing?
How can contributors to the GDN like Mr Freeman, whom one would assume must be reasonably intelligent, not have the capability to understand the basic tenets of what the 2nd amendment, and the history of the NRA stand for? Sorry Freeman, but someone that exhibits such blind ignorance, is descredited and held in contempt. And now everyone knows to use you as a human shield as we pull out our concealed firearms in the event that some lunatic decides he wants to waste everyone in line at Walmart.
It is a shame that so many people are fooled so easily by this NRA fraudulent claim! Follow the money!
So tell us Diane....please elaborate for those of us that don’t have a clue what you mean.....??? And please be specific so we can all understand.
HELLO Diane....???? Certainly you are going to back up your statement with some concrete facts that support what you said....right???
Diane, I'm not a member of the NRA but I do believe in the Constitution.
Carlos: [Diane, I'm not a member of the NRA but I do believe in the Constitution.]
...but not in judicial precedence (unless helpful).
Three cheers to Dan Freeman for stating the truth, clearly enough that even idiots could understand it. I see the usual trolls and naysayers are commenting. Don't let them dissuade you from trying to bring sense to this problem, even if they chose to not understand.
I challenge YOU to enlighten us then Ms.Mugnier. Please show us your proof of any validity that you so vehemently support. And use small words so that the trolls don’t need to continually check the dictionary.
"...clearly enough that even idiots could understand it." Since I'm not an idiot I don't agree with him. But I see Allison understands what he is trying to convey.
oh written for idiot as they cab understand. Mr. Freemen should be called A CHERRY PICKER NOT AN OCASSIONAL COLUMNIST.After as one post avove pointed out his cherry picking fowrw decades. So I say now he is Mr Cherry Picker.
I've hunted all my life, with multiple shotguns and rifles... for the life of me, I have never seen a shotgun (made for bird hunting) have an 8 round capacity even with the plug out. I'm calling BS until someone can show me a NONMilitary type shotgun that has an 8 round capacity... especially in the year period Mr. Feeman was a young boy.
Keith, I have no idea how old dan is , but I started hunting when I was 6. I had a 410 bolt action shotgun, with a clip. When I used Mag. shells, it had plenty of kill power.
I found large capacity shotguns , that are used in the military. I have seen them used for hunting, with bad results. Where I grow up , you used what you had. If I remember right , some from overseas had larger capacity's. My brother worked on one from Italy. I may be wrong, as that was over 55 years ago.Or he may have been using military grade, since he was a Colonel and what he had access to, may have been military . When he was done, "nothing was left but feathers." He also may have been shooting Mag. shells at to close range, which leaves nothing to eat.
I do not think he was using this. I would like to see one.In 1925, Rodolfo Cosmi produced the first working hybrid prototype semi-automatic shotgun, which had an 8-round magazine located in the stock. While it reloaded automatically after each shot like a semi-automatic, it had a break-action to load the first shell.
A good all-round gun but not 8 shot. "The Mossberg 500 has always been marketed as a multi-purpose firearm"It was manufactured in 1960.Chamber: 12-gaugeBarrels: 18 inch and 28 inch vented ribCapacity: 5+1Mossberg's 500 pump-action shotgun offers an amazing amount of gun for an unbeatable price! The variety of stock, barrel and finish options alone assures the 500 a place in the hearts of outdoorsmen. Its performance in the field goes a long way in cementing its reputation with millions of hunters.The vented rib barrel in particular is double beaded and choked, to be used for hunting and clay shooting.
Fifteen minutes later, we flushed another covey. Before either of us could get off a shot, the Colonel let loose a barrage of eight shots from his semi-automatic shotgun. He got his limit, but the quail meat vanished in a hail of shot, nothing but feathers.
Jim, that is some good info you provided, but all in all I feel Dan exaggerated to support his position... IMHO Take Care and Merry Christmas
Your chances of being killed by gunfire are relatively small, about 11 in 100,000. If you do not own a gun, your chances of being killed by gunfire are around 4 in 100,000. I guess guns are like smoking; you know its bad for you, but it makes you feel good, so you do it anyway. And it makes liberal heads figuratively explode when you talk about how if you had been there with your trusty Sig-Sauer or Glock 17 you could shot that mutha dead in his tracks.
Guns are bad Karma, and bad Karma always comes back to you. He that lives by the sword dies by the sword. When you buy a gun, you are selling a piece of your soul to the devil. But if you do buy a gun, don't forget to keep your doors locked and keep a record of the serial number some place separately from the gun so you will be able to give it to the police when you report it stolen.
You probably heard the one about the woman who goes to a gun shop and says she wants a shotgun. The proprietor says, "What kind of shotgun?" She says, "It's for my husband." The proprietor says, "Did you ask him what kind to get?" She says, "No, he doesn't know I am going to shoot him."
When I read [shot gun, semi auto 8 shot] I identified the writer as a liberal with zero knowlege of guns. Just a liberal shill. Having hunted quail in many states I've never seen a limit that 8 shots could fill even with a liberals vivid imagination. Doesn't need spell check, needs truth check.
Gary , I grew up with a limit of 8!
'As Dan did not say were he was hunting, here is 3 states.
QUAIL limit in KansasArea Open: StatewideDaily Bag Limit: 8 in regular season, 4 in youth seasonKansas generally ranks within the top three states in quail harvest
The Arizona Quail Hunt runs from the fourth week of November into the second week of February, with a limit of 8 birds per day
Texas bag limits"Quail regulations have been largely unchanged since the mid 1980s. The seasons have basically run about four months, with bag limits of 15 birds a day and 45 in possession". He may have hunted earlier in the day, so 8 could have maxed him out. As I was not at the hunt , I have no way of knowing.
Growing up in the country in the 40s limit was what you could et. Although we ate what we shot we never just killed birds, squirels nor rabbits without eating them. In my experience after the limits came in firing 8 shots in a covey of quails mos likely would get many over the limit. Although I think the real issue on the limits was the semi auto shotgun as the only limit posted was he got his limit which as I said probably over his limits if all that was left was feathers. The article was not vey good as the writer did not seem knowledge able many things.
Gary: [ Just a liberal shill. Having hunted quail in many states I've never seen a limit that 8 shots could fill even with a liberals vivid imagination. Doesn't need spell check, needs truth check.]
Truth check: https://www.armsunlimited.com/Mossberg-930-SPX-8-Shot-Semi-Auto-12-Gauge-Shotgun-p/85360.htm
You failed the check.
Gary, I misread your post and replied to something else. My apologies.
Mark that is not a bird gun... and it was not around when the author was quail hunting. But it does have an 8 shell capacity.
Mr. Freeman, I am not sure abut that 1977 "coup" that supposedly changed the NRA's position... but if you read through sportsman's publications dating all the way back to the forties, you might change your mind. Lots of articles were written by the firearm press all the way from the post-war years through the 70's about the NRA's role in protecting gun rights. I have a collection of old books, mostly one called the Shooter's Bible. It is a popular digest of shooting and hunting articles, dating to 1924. Every one of them contains at least one article about protecting gun rights. This is not a new fight. Love them or hate them, the NRA's position has remained steadfast for the last sixty years or so.
Jim: [ I am not sure abut that 1977 "coup" that supposedly changed the NRA's position... ]
The coup is well documented and widely reported.
I think it has been proved when a liberal talks or writes about something they know nothing about they use liberal spin as facts. There is a strange list of guns liberals call 'assault weapons'. For instance the Vegus shooter used a PCC, not an assault weapon. How many of you liberals know what a PCC is? Do you know why an assault weapon is more powerful than a PCC?
Gary , the picture I saw had a riffle that looked like a Daniel Defense Ambush AR Style Semi Auto Rifle . what other weapon did you see? Did the bump stock change the class of the weapons for you?The term 'assault weapon' was coined to sell more .
The popularly held idea that the term 'assault weapon' originated with anti-gun activists is wrong. The term was first adopted by manufacturers, wholesalers, importers and dealers in the American firearms industry to stimulate sales of certain firearms that did not have an appearance that was familiar to many firearms owners. The manufacturers and gun writers of the day needed a catchy name to identify this new type of gun?
Gary: [There is a strange list of guns liberals call 'assault weapons']
Where can we find that list?
Isn't it interesting the author throws a bunch cow dung up into the air as if it was the holy grail but when challenged as to the facts he seems to be unable to respond? In any manner? Imagine that!!!!
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