(50) comments Back to story

Brian Cann

What were the unspeakably vile things he has said? Who brought the criticism? This editorial was not written very well.

Pete Nanos

Nothing this liberal hack puts out is well written. Facts get in the way with this nut case.

Chris Gimenez

Once again Hubris Taylor misleads the public with an opinion-based piece in which he doesn't provide a shred of factual evidence to support his accusation. This seems to be Mr. Taylor's modus operandi. Ted Nugent demonstrates more American values than Taylor has ever known.

Kevin Lang

Anyone that wasn't under a rock in the 70's and 80's during the height of his "Motor City Madman" personna days knows that Nugent is not a man that shunned controversy. His life and his music do not portray a man that has shown graceful romanticism. You will never see his picture in Webster's next to the definition of "Renaissance Man".

Also, the things he's expressed about homosexuality would alternate between making a conservative proud and cringe. While his spoken and written words about homosexuality indicate, perhaps somewhat crudely, that he's not a fan, he also has been outspoken about "live and let live".

Anyway, personally, I don't really care who they get to perform for the benefit. If Kanye West wants to come do a benefit for Komen, the RNC, or VFW next year, I see no reason to stand in that organization's way.

Hopefully, this signifies the end of the double-standard. We'll see. Maybe Adam Lambert wants to come to League City to do an Anti-Defamation benefit?

I think the only question that needs to be answered is whether fairly large amounts of public funds should be used for helping pay for charity events. If so, do we do it for all charity events, or only for certain ones? Which ones? Is the motivation for this contribution one of political value, or is it purely because it's a good cause?

Miss Priss

Apparently Miserable BV resident believes he deserves freedom of speech but not anyone else that states their opinion on this blog.

Chris Gimenez

The only one miserable on here is someone hiding behind a phony name to disparage people. Once again you use a completely false argument to cover what you were asked-who voted these people to Council if it wasn't the majority? There is nothing I said that questions anybody's free speech. I think everyone realizes you have some really serious personal issues that are troubling you. Have you sought professional help?

Miss Priss

Hahaha!!! I believe your mouth has caused you business. Hasn't it?

Chris Gimenez

You're delusional. Probably best if you continue to hide behind phony names. You know, to spare your family the embarassment.

Miss Priss

Yes and I guess you care what delusional people think since you spend time making comments about their posts.

Chris Gimenez

Not really, but you're so easy to dissect I can't help but to have a little fun.

Miss Priss

Great editorial.

Explanation: this is what happens when you elect a group to council that don't have the same beliefs as the majority of constituents in the city. Maybe stunts like this will get a larger percentage of folks off the couch and vote against some of these folks in the next election.

Chris Gimenez

truthlessserum, just who elected this group to council if it wasn't the majority of constituents in the city? But I understand why you would believe Hubris' piece is a great editorial-neither one of you ever back up what you say with facts.

Trudy Deen Davis

Then let Ted be hauled into the court of public opinion. It is about Free Speech isn't it? His, too.

Miss Priss

Trudy - missing the point here.... Ted nugent can come to LC all he wants and say whatever the heck he wants to say.... Taxpayer money should not be spent on this type of discretionary expense.

Miceal O'Laochdha

Mr. Taylor, please get an editor to edit the Editor's column.

You just can't advise us that Nugent demeans people with unspeakable terms when, quite obviously, they must be able to be spoken for him to commit the act of demeaning people during his performance.

I know this sounds like grammatical quibbling but, someone with your job seriously distracts from the political / cultural position you are trying to convey by such simple errors. It is not grammar at issue; it is clarity of thought.

But, it is so rare a day that I have any reason to think about Ted Nugent, low these last 40 years or so, that I suppose you have done what little must be left of his career a great service by both reporting on him as news and making him the subject of an Editorial, into the bargain. On behalf of Nugent and all other former celebrities desperate to keep a small trickle of income flowing from public notoriety; you are thanked.

Any thoughts on the value added (or detracted) for our community by the latest activities of the Kardashian family that you might want to share?

Paul Hyatt

Since when does the media have to report the "truth"???? They seem to write about what they want and call it their version of the thruth and they never seem to be called on it.... Mr. Taylor your version of the truth is only in your mind about this subject....

Johann Ramirez


I'd say anyone causing sufficient offense to warrant a visit from the secret service, because of offending comments in relation to the president of this great nation, does not deserve any public funds. A person vilifying and attacking our democratically elected president the way this man has does not deserve public funds for anything.

Pete Nanos

You mean like Obama uses public funds to make speeches about republicans ?

Evelyn Clark

Yes just like the Republican use the funds also to talk about the Democrats. Be fair. Every since President Obama won the first time the Rep. held a special meeting to do everthing they could to ruin him, but he won a SECOND term. and they are still mad. ARE you still MAD too. [smile] [smile]

Have A nice day.

George Croix

Interesting editorial take from the Fourth Estate.
One result has been a sudden if so far limited re-emergence of the concept of majority, a word long ago losing it's maj and replaced with min when any first considerations are, well, considered.
If the subject is actually offensive speach, targeted at certain people or groups,
then no doubt the author will editorialize against ALL speach found offensive by ANY people when public funds are involved? Quite a task.
Perhaps a starting point should be the no less hateful and offensive speach of our own President and his Administrators, all paid with public monies to do so, who have called their fellow Americans with opposing viewpoints anarchists, terrorists, extortionists, kidnappers, and a host of other pejoratives meant no less to demean entire groups than the language of any entertainer might do.
Nasty name calling by some guys putting on a show versus false accusations of criminal behavior by the leaders of the nation.
A bit of perspective, please, if fairness is to be abandoned on the alter of political correctness...

Pat Hallisey

Interesting comments,

I am more concerned with the indiscriminate spending of public funds.

Ted Nugent is just one issue in a long list of non conservative spending!.

As one of the "Do Gooders" around town who make nothing for our public service, I really hope the rest of like minded folks of League City really pay attention to the biggest non truth of them all, These are not conservative people when it comes to spending Public Funds.

The purpose of Ted Nugent is commendable to provide housing for a Veteran, but I would appreciate our public officials getting off their lazy butts and go raise money like all the other civic minded people in League City do for worthy events.

They are very cavalier with the publics money.

Kathy Wolff

I think there is a very simple solution here. Mr. Nugent is well known for shooting just about anything that moves, so put together a bait site, force a handful of game animals into the area, set up a platform for his nibs to shoot from and call that sufficient payment for his crappy pseudo musical talent. Ted is happy, the county is happy, his few remaining fans will be happy. How is this not a win-win situation?

Mike Meador

Ok, Mr. Editor: Let's all get together and use our brains to get a celebrity who would generate the revenue needed for the charity. We could get around the table, decide what celebrity we want to come to the event, and make this discussion a 'Christmas treat.'
And, of course, remember the person must be one that everybody likes - anything written about the celebrity passes above and beyond reproach - anything said by the celebrity goes above and beyond everybody's reproach.
Now we've got to invite the participants, that ones that have the 'same beliefs of the majority of the constituents.' We don't have to worry about the 'minority' who don't believe as we do.....this group of participants would find a celebrity that everybody, except those in the minority, would like, have read all things about the celebrity that the majority likes, and finds everything the celebrity says above and reproach of the majority.
Now it's time to 'pony-up' and get this group of majority participants to sit down around the table and use this 'Christmas treat' as a way find a celebrity for this charity event.

Mick Phalen

Want your favorite special interest funded with taxpayers' money?

All it takes is to become a "friend" (wink, wink) of Todd, He!d!, or Geri.

Conservatives, my butt.

Steve Fouga

Amazing that Ted Nugent can generate any interest at all, from anyone. I didn't realize he was still performing.

I did enjoy Snakeskin Cowboys, back in '75.

Kevin Lang

cougargator, your point is very good. I'll bet that if we can find someone carrying no controversy, no one would want to go to the event. Get someone controversial, and a lot of people will want to go, and another lot will go an protest, and the third lot will go ho-hum and wonder what all the buzz is about.

If this decision was based on having a performer that is controversial in ways that are agreeable to the council members, then the donation is for the wrong reason.

If the biggest issue with the donation is who the performer is, then I think we're on the wrong tangent. If the event promoters picked him above others because they believed he'd attract the right sized crowd at the right ticket price for the right margin for the fundraising goals, I don't care if they got MIA, or Lady Gaga, Neil Diamond, or Kid Rock. And, that shouldn't be council's concern, either.

The key issues, I believe, center around whether this is the best use of HOT funds, or if the coffer has money in it that isn't needed, and this is just some way to clear the hopper. What were the competing uses for the funds? Was leaving the funds in the account and perhaps cutting the HOT rate a consideration if we just don't have the products in the pipeline for the revenues we're collecting?

Did the money have to be spent? For example, subject to some kind of use-it-or-lose-it scheme? Were there other noble ventures the city could have engaged in? Will the city be making a habit of donating 15-20K for other worthy causes? I can certainly understand an argument that this cause transcends all others, but I'd like to see the argument and its supporting statements. For example, will this same 15-20K amount be available for an AIDS Hospice event. Or a migratory bird refuge, or a Save the Frackers benefit?

George Croix

I can't quite figure out whether the bigger bone of contention is what expenditure of the funds is for, or on whom they are being expended?
Seems to be just another chapter in City of LC government drama and catfighting, past and present.
At least when Nugent leaves (bad pun...), there won't be continuous taxpayer funded monitoring and watering of him...[beam][beam]

George Croix

Maybe Ted should host a candlelight vigil and then he'll be an acceptible use of funds, like for the Ghirardi Oak move.

Ron Shelby

This expense, paid for with taxpayer dollars just seems problematic on many levels, no matter who is hired. It would have been better to get private funding from someone to foot the bill. I'm sure it could have found support from your local county commissioner from his campaign war chest.

Mick Phalen

In the spirit of the Christmas season, I'm going to lay off criticism of Dan, Todd, Geri, and He!d!.

They are, in fact, no better, or worse, than any other sleazy politician who uses public trust and taxpayers money to better themselves and their special interest friends.

Gary Miller

Using public funds to hire Ted Nugent was the original sin.
Opposing him because of his use of free speach is the second sin.
If Nugent is wrong our half breed president is also.
Who they attack seems to have some political definitions.

Kevin Lang

Why do you feel so compelled to throw around that "half-breed" line? Agree with him or not, he is 100% Human. Although I don't look like I'm multi-racial, genetically, I am. Just because the races within my DNA are perhaps more closely related than Obama's, I think you'd still have to call me a mongrel. My guess is that you're not a purebred, either.

Not to mention, according to the Bible, we all trace back to one or more of the 12 Tribes of Israel.

Gosh, if Obama's a half-breed, he's much closer to purebred than most of us.

At best, the use of that term is meaningless. However, I think your use of it is intended to be much worse than meaningless.

Gary Miller

I too am a mongrel.
Native American with some irish and german. Discriminated against before and longer than African natives. I use the half breed term as non approval of his conduct, not against his races.
When liberals call us "racist" if we disapprove his policies are they saying white or black is racist? He isn't black or white so how can his policies be racist? They are just bad policy.

Gary Miller

You should understand opposing his policies can't be racist because he isn't white or black.

Kevin Lang

Perhaps. However, it's still possible to be against his policies primarily due to bias or prejudice. Racism is just one of many prejudices, and, perhaps, the one many find as the most likely reason for disapproval.

George Croix

Dear Ted,
Wave the fee, and instead donate the 20 grand to the wounded combat vets.
Thank you.
Merry Christmas

As for name calling, I think extortionists and kidnappers and hijackers and jihadists and arsonists and terrorists and saboteurs and anarchists and even in one case murderers coming from the Admin. and associated toadies beats any back at ya's that have emanated from these forums. But, that's just my opinion.

However, I'd be remiss and dishonest if I didn't point out my own use of troll and weasel and cowardly internet clown to describe what can only be heard and not seen.
Sorry, Santa.
Nobody's perfect...[lol][lol]

Centerpointe Moderator

The financial analysis has gotten lost in all of the argument about artistic and existential validity. Can someone be specific about why LC thinks it is justified in spending that money on this event? Does the analysis suggest that the hotel receipts or tax revenues or promotional value or some other measure justifies floating the event to the tune of $50 per attendee or whatever the estimate was? What specific taxpayer value derives from this investment?

Two days ago, Chron had a great little piece about how a $15 million investment of public funds in redeveloping a segment of Buffalo Bayou resulted in a localized business revenue increase from $10 million to about $57 million. Do a bit of math and you'll quickly realize that the ROI for taxpayers is really good on that one. Every time Houston proposes to improve its waterways and parklands, you hear all of these "conservatives" whining about how the liberal greenies are squandering tax money on useless flower-planting projects that will benefit bunnies instead of people. But the fact is that good infrastructure attracts commercial development which increases sales tax collection, real estate taxes from increased property values, etc.

In other words, after everyone has totally distorted the issue by voicing the full spectrum of political biases, what you're left with is the only thing that really matters: numbers on paper. I'm wondering what the numbers are going to look like for Nugent.

Sweet Sue LaRue

Well, this is embarrassing. Do you mean to tell me that we are supposed to ask "What specific taxpayer value derives from this investment?" I am so flustered.

Before handing over any money, it's important to establish ground rules and expectations.

The city said the promoter (Gulf Coast Public Affairs) who organized the Boogie, Blues and Brews festival owes it $22,000. Council members today will consider legal options to get the money back. This investment (seed money from the city) did not work out too well.

Will Ted's numbers be a plus or minus?

Chris Mallios

Cpointe-Mod Amen to that !! The only value the taxpayer in League city gets (except for the "feel good" effect) from this "contribution" is this from Councilmember Kinsey “If I can leave my legacy from my time in office — that the city has a fundraiser that builds a home for a disabled veteran every year — I think that would be awfully cool,” The point here is that helping one individual is a good thing but helping many of our taxpaying citizens who have been waiting for help for years would be better. The city council, in my opinion, is elected to help all the citizens of our city and not about leaving “ my legacy from my time in office”.

George Croix

”Use of Local Hotel Occupancy Tax Revenues
There is a two-part test for every expenditure of local hotel occupancy tax.

Criteria #1: First, every expenditure must DIRECTLY enhance and promote tourism AND the convention and hotel industry. (There is no statutory formula for determining the level of impact an event must have to satisfy the requirement to directly promote tourism and hotel and convention activity.)

Criteria #2: Every expenditure of the hotel occupancy tax must clearly fit into one of nine statutorily provided categories for expenditure of local hotel occupancy tax revenues.
The nine categories for expenditure of the hotel occupancy tax are as follows:
1) Funding the establishment, improvement, or maintenance of a convention center or visitor information center.
2) Paying the administrative costs for facilitating convention registration.
3) Paying for advertising, solicitations, and promotions that attract tourists and convention delegates to the city or its vicinity.
4) Expenditures that promote the arts.
5) Funding historical restoration or preservation programs.
6) Funding certain expenses, including promotional expenses, directly related to a sporting event within counties with a population of under 1 million.
7) Funding the enhancement or upgrading of existing sports facilities or sports fields for certain municipalities.
8) Funding transportation systems for tourists.
9) Signage directing tourists to sights and attractions that are visited frequently by hotel guests in the municipality."

Well, it's legal, if this is any guide, as long as one 'tourist', a person who doesn't live in town, comes to the event, and might take a hotel/motel room or visit a 'convention center'.
It's certainly within the realm of 'the arts', as the wide loop of that definition is thrown these days.

I ask again. Although different tax monies are used, what help to the citizens of LC was the moving of a tree named after a specific family, and it's ongoing expenses and care?
Some people might argue that ONE wounded combat vet getting a house in town, then the resulting income to the City and businesses from occupancy of it, is a better deal for taxpayers.
Some would not.
It's boiling down to arguing over who's piece of the family pie is bigger...

I still hope Ted donates the bucks to the wounded combat vets' organization.

Centerpointe Moderator

"I ask again. Although different tax monies are used, what help to the citizens of LC was the moving of a tree named after a specific family, and it's ongoing expenses and care?"

That one was NOT as arbitrary or capricious as it seems at first glance. League City DID, in fact, generate world-wide publicity for itself with that project, because it was so unique. It cost us two hundred thousand bucks and there are two hundred thousand views on YouTube alone, to say nothing of the fact that just about every major network, special interest group, and blogger of any consequence in the world picked up that story. Smithsonian magazine reported it. Networks I've never even heard of carried the story. The C2NN news pipe reported it and almost ONE MILLION people 'liked' their coverage on Facebook, just from that one rebroadcaster alone!

THAT is what I call successful self-promotion: Uncountable millions of people were introduced to LC in a positive light because of that project. What else on earth could LC *possibly* have done with $200K that would have produced anything approaching that kind of result??

All this self-promotional $70,000 city logo changes and the signage improvements and all that related small-potatoes crap... that stuff is completely meaningless unless there is promotional meat to put on the bones. Moving the oak was meat. It was probably the best promotional money that LC has EVER spent.

George Croix

How many Big Macs at the local McDonalds or DQ Dudes at Dairy Queen has the 'world wide publicity' caused to be bought? How many hotel rooms have been stayed in by the 200,000 You Tubers? How many grocery store receipts issued to the major networks, bloggers, and special interest groups? How about the Facebook Likers...have they been making a run on store shelves in LC?
You can qualify it, but there's no way to quantify it, except by guessing and assuming that all the lookers and talkers will actually come to LC and drop bucks to look at a tree.
Success to some may be somebody knowing they exist and looking at them, but for others it's return on investment. The internet is what may happen. Main Street is happening.
Perhaps I'm wrong, and the area around the oak is crawling with those millions of people exposed to LC coming to get a look, and dropping cash while there.
Anyone coming to the Nugent concert has to at least be in town, and likely to eat something somewhere, and maybe even stay the night, then later somebody will get a roof over their head and start paying some taxes and buying so groceries and stuff.
So, yes, a successful 'promotion'.
If Cuba Gooding ever visits, I bet he'll say 'Show me the money'...
The taxpayers might well pose the same challenge, if they even care.
Merry Christmas

Centerpointe Moderator

GE, those are very good points. They highlight LC's core issue in that we don't do a very good job of follow-through (a young guy might say in vernacular that we got no game - we can't close).

Say five million people are introduced to the idea of LC through this tree thing. Certainly X number of those are expected proceed with a few more clicks to see WHAT ELSE there might be to do in this obviously quirky place. The tree isn't the direct money-maker, but it's the hook. People love feel-good news stories - they literally eat them for breakfast, and moving that half-million-pound tree fit that bill to a T.

The problem is that once people go fishing around for that critical mass of what else to do in League City, they don't find much. For crying out loud, we couldn't even keep a Berryhill on Marina Bay Drive two miles from the tree, at least in part because of a sewer gas intrusion problem that for whatever inexplicable reasons, the property owners could not or would not fix (the fancy anchor building in that strip center apparently remains vacant to this day).

But as the old saying goes, we have to start somewhere. We can't simply throw up our hands and say "Well, the Ghirardi doesn't make any money and it doesn't draw people toward anything else that makes money because there just isn't anything of value here and therefore we are done with this analysis." Obviously there's nowhere to go from there - it's a dead end, and it's unimaginative to boot.

So instead, we count our blessings on the publicity windfall which will serve as a good future touchpoint for when LC finally DOES get some game. Eventually (we hope), LC will develop something else to distinguish itself and the newspapers will note "This is also the same city that moved that tree a few years ago" at which point people will say, "Oh yeah!! I remember that tree!!" because who in the hell could possibly forget a half-million-pound walking tree?! Nobody else has done that - it's memorable. And it will help LC to close - to seal the deal - if it could just manage to develop that critical mass of draw.

George Croix

You're on the right track, except as you say there's nothing at the end of the trail except a tree. One that may or may not even be around in a few years.
And while the draw of something unique like moving a 250 ton tree (the tree makes it unique, for sure...the weight is almost 'routine' for big refinery equipment...but, who the heck wants to see that, either...[wink]) gets some looks, in this 'fundamentally changed' economy especially there are not going to be a lot of people spend gas, time, and food money to come look and exclaim, "By golly, that's a big tree. Let's go home now...they roll up the sidewalks here at 9pm...).
Anyway, I see this as a BOTH sides of the issue are right at this time. Gotta spend money to make any, but so far it's a wash at best and probably a net loser if an honest accountant is one-two-threeing the pennies
Good advertising goes hand in hand with tourism, but tourism is only supported by the non-Griswolds of the world if they feel they get their bucks' worth.
THAT is why it just might, might, make some sense to being entertainment venues to LC when possible, IF trial one(s) prove successful. people who like the music or show will come for that, and people who don't like it will come to start trouble or see if anybody else does.
Maybe they'll all buy a burger and stay a while...
Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.
Personally, it was my best one in years.

Centerpointe Moderator

This conversation highlights the fact that there isn't even a formal venue available in which to have this conversation.

Yes, I think LC should endeavor to bring entertainment acts, if the numbers work. In the Nugent case, I can't tell if they do or don't, which is one of the original points made in this thread.

I suspect that the key to LC's development will be diversity, though, and diversity that has unconventional aspects to it. Every tax-hungry city thinks in terms of burgers and music. It may work to a point but there's nothing distinctive or original about it. In contrast, take a look at what Butler Longhorn is doing. They've surprised the heck out of just about everyone, and if you parse it, you'll see that a lot of what they're doing really amounts to old-style community-building (with money-spending adjuncts) which people love.

Of course, they are seriously hampered by LC's complete lack of infrastructure, to the point where they don't even have sufficient parking (the museum began its life as a private residence and the whole area is structured accordingly). But I'm wondering if Biggert-Waters might take care of a portion of that problem. There's a good amount of undeveloped land in the vicinity that investors appear to have been holding onto for years now. If B-W comes to pass the way folks anticipate, they'll unload that land as basically undevelopable and LC could then pick it up for a song (pun intended), thus paving the way (pun intended) for more comprehensive development of that pocket, which - who knows? - might even reach critical mass. Put some parking, some green space, some additional amenities, let Butler take the resulting ball and run with it... who knows?? We could end up with a success story of the type that no other local city can claim. It's almost New Year's, right?? A time for resolutions and new dreams. [beam]

Sweet Sue LaRue

Affordable Ted Tickets

When can we expect the Ted Nugent roll-out? On what day will the NugentCare Market Place be up and running? My old Compaq 386 is a little slow. When I visit the League City website things don't go too well. Do things seem sluggish because my computer is old and slow or is this the fault of the bloated League City website? The fact that there are too many layers of overdone graphics could be causing this sad situation. Who pays for this website? Will NugentCare Market Place be standalone or will there be a link to Affordable Ted Tickets on the front page of the League City website?

George Croix

Old timers like me might drop a buck or two to see a longhorn's head on a wall and a barbed wire collection or some such related paraphernalia, but not many younger folks will, unless dragged along by family. And while the current supply of older folks is vast, father time will all too soon see to it that the Boomers are part of history.
Need attraction(s) that young adults want to come to now, and will still want visit when they are older, for long term revenue generating. Repeat visitors = very important.
And, human nature being what it is, you really need a range of venues with pricing to match. Some folks will squeeze a nickel till the buffalo on it poops, while others take pride in spending more than what something is worth, because they can.

Gary Miller

Is the tree still alive? How much is being spent on keeping it alive? I suspect no tourist has ever gone to LC to see THE TREE. A picture in the paper or on puter will suffice.

Will Nugent's show build a home for a vet? Perhaps. Will it attract any repeat tourists to LC? Probabley not.

Is the $15K or $20K wasted? Of course. What else ya gonna do with OPM? No point having a tax that can't be wasted.

Centerpointe Moderator

A lot of recreation is wisely geared toward older folks because they have the earned money in their possession, the time to spend that money, and the maturity not to screw up as they're doing it.

Younger local folks will almost invariably limit themselves to Kemah, Cinemark, or Baybrook Mall. Apparently the market has decided that destinations targeting younger people do not have an acceptable ROI, most likely because of the liability issue. Revenues can't justify the insurance and legal costs. If you think this isn't the case, go looking for a simple dance hall, club, or special interest venue that will admit the under-21 set, and please let us all know if you find it. With most of what's out there, you can't even volunteer, let alone pay to participate, unless you are over 18. And by the time 18 arrives, a lot of suburban young people are moving around for college and jobs. It's hard to formulate a plan to engage young people under this kind of a regime.

George Croix

I wasn't talking about children, which is what anyone up to the age of 26 is classified as these days.
I was talking about young people, like 40 and under.
That's young when one is in their 60's....[beam]
Thay have enough money usually to attend events, and are less likely to need a lot of security/medical assistance presence.
Some of them can even put their electronic security blankets down long enough to pay attention to other things...

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