President Donald Trump’s comments about owners firing players who kneel during the national anthem sparked a mass increase in such protests around the National Football League Sunday, as more than 130 players sat, knelt or raised their fists in defiance during early games.

A week ago, just four players didn’t stand and two raised their fists.

Defensive star Von Miller was among the majority of Denver Broncos who took a knee in Buffalo Sunday, where Bills running back LeSean McCoy stretched during the “Star Spangled Banner.” In Chicago, the Pittsburgh Steelers stayed in the tunnel except for one player, Army veteran Alejandro Villanueva, who stood outside with a hand over his heart. Tom Brady was among the New England Patriots who locked arms in solidarity in Foxborough, Massachusetts.

The president’s comments turned the anthems — usually sung during commercials — into must-watch television shown live by the networks and Yahoo!, which streamed the game in London. In some NFL stadiums, crowds booed or yelled at players to stand. There was also some applause.

NFL players, coaches, owners and executives used the anthems to show solidarity in their defiance to Trump’s criticism.

In Detroit, anthem singer Rico Lavelle took a knee at the word “brave,” lowering his head and raising his right fist into the air.

Jets Chairman and CEO Christopher Johnson, whose brother, Woody, is the ambassador to England and one of Trump’s most ardent supporters, called it “an honor and a privilege to stand arm-in-arm unified with our players during today’s national anthem” in East Rutherford, New Jersey.

The issue reverberated across the Atlantic, where about two dozen players, including Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs and Jaguars running back Leonard Fournette, took a knee during the playing of the U.S. anthem at Wembley Stadium.

“We stand with our brothers,” Suggs said. “They have the right and we knelt with them today. To protest, nonviolent protest, is as American as it gets, so we knelt with them today to let them know that we’re a unified front. There ain’t no dividing us. I guess we’re all son-of-a-bitches.”

Jaguars owner Shad Khan and players on both teams who were not kneeling remained locked arm-in-arm throughout the playing of the anthem and “God Save The Queen.” No players were knelt during the British anthem.

Trump saw the arm-in-arm gestures as a victory. Among his latest tweets on the top Sunday was this: “Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings!”

A handful of NFL players have refused to stand during the anthem to protest several issues, including police brutality. But that number ballooned Sunday following Trump’s two-day weekend rant that began with the president calling for NFL protesters to be fired and continued Saturday with the president rescinding a White House invitation for the NBA champion Golden State Warriors over star Stephen Curry’s criticism of Trump.

The movement started more than a year ago when former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Collin Kaepernick refused to stand during the national anthem as a protest of police treatment of racial minorities. This season, no team has signed him, and some supporters believe NFL owners are avoiding him because of the controversy.

A handful of Miami Dolphins players wore black T-shirts supporting Kaepernick during pregame warm-ups. The shirts have “#IMWITHKAP” written in bold white lettering on the front.

Trump’s targeting of top professional athletes in football and basketball brought swift condemnation from executives and players in the National Football League and the National Basketball Association.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin defended Trump’s attacks Sunday, saying on ABC’s “This Week” that the president thinks “owners should have a rule that players should have to stand in respect for the national anthem.” Mnuchin added that “they can do free speech on their own time.”

The National Hockey League’s reigning champion Pittsburgh Penguins announced Sunday they’ve accepted a White House invitation from Trump. The Penguins said they respect the office of the president and “the long tradition of championship team visiting the White House.”

“Any agreement or disagreement with a president’s politics, policies or agenda can be expressed in other ways,” the Penguins said. “However, we very much respect the rights of other individuals and groups to express themselves as they see fit.”

Before Game 1 of the WNBA Finals in Minneapolis on Sunday, the Los Angeles Sparks left the floor while the Minnesota Lynx stood arm-in-arm. The Sparks returned to a chorus of boos when the song was finished.

Sports hasn’t been immune from America’s deep political rifts, but the president’s delving into the NFL protests started by Kaepernick brought new attention to the issues.

“Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, you’d say, ‘Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. Out! He’s fired,’” Trump said to loud applause Friday night at a rally in Huntsville, Alabama.

“If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend!” Trump said in a Sunday morning tweet.

Trump also mocked the league’s crackdown on illegal hits, suggesting the league had softened because of its safety initiatives, which stem from an increased awareness of the devastating effects of repeated hits to the head.

Kahn, who was among the NFL owners who chipped in $1 million to the Trump inauguration committee, said he met with his team captains before kickoff in London “to express my support for them, all NFL players and the league following the divisive and contentious remarks made by President Trump.”

Trump’s comments drew sharp responses from some of the nation’s top athletes, with LeBron James calling the president a “bum.” Hours later, Major League Baseball saw its first player take a knee during the national anthem.

The NFL its players, often at odds, have been united in condemning the president’s criticisms.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft, who’s been a strong supporter of the president, expressed “deep disappointment” with Trump.

The NFL, meanwhile, said it would re-air a unity spot called “Inside These Lines” during its Sunday night game between Oakland and Washington on NBC. “Inside These Lines” is a 60-second video that highlights the power of football to bring people together.

(62) comments

Steve Fouga

I always stand during the anthem, but I can't too worked up over those who don't.

I wish the president would focus his energy on more important issues, and quit making obviously provocative statements to professional athletes, press correspondents, and foreign leaders. He's acting like a nut.

Mark Aaron

Steve: "I always stand during the anthem, but I can't too worked up over those who don't."

Same here. I don't know when going to a sporting event suddenly became a patriotic purity test.

Carlos Ponce

"as more than 130 players sat, knelt or raised their fists in defiance during early games"
There were 10 early games, twenty teams playing. At 45 members per team there were 900 players on the field for the early game meaning about 770 players did not sit, kneel or raise fists during the anthem or about 86%.
Try expressing your partisan politics on the job site. Some jobs - no problem. Many jobs- you'll get your walking papers.
No problem for me, I gave up on watching NFL years ago.
"I'm proud to be an American,
Where at least I know I'm free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
Who gave that right to me.
And I gladly stand up,
Next to you and defend her still today.
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA!!!!!!"

Mark Aaron

Carlos: " 770 players did not sit, kneel or raise fists during the anthem or about 86%."

So 14% of players had the courage to represent their belief that Black folks are being abused by the authorities. That is a significant number, not that you would care, eh Carlos? Not your problem. You prefer mindless obedience, unless it is about something you believe in, like demonizing a woman's right to choose.

George Croix

The usual suspects all around, all doing what's come to be expected.....
And 'We Were There' can add it's 37th title some half century plus since 36, if somebody will write it...as an acknowledgement of the birth of yet another cliche'....

Mark Aaron

George: "The usual suspects all around, all doing what's come to be expected....."

The usual suspects showing their usual racial insensitivity and callousness about how Black people are consistently abused by the police, and others, in this country. Not your problem, eh George?

Jim Forsythe

By trying to influence the NFL, the President may not be following a U.S. code.
"Trump said NFL owners should respond to the players by saying, "Get that sob off the field right now, he's fired. He's fired!"
18 U.S. Code § 227 - Wrongfully influencing a private entity’s employment decisions by a Member of Congress or an officer or employee of the legislative or executive branch.
(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—
(1)
takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or
(2)
influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—
(1)
a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;
(2)
an employee of either House of Congress; or
(3)
the President, Vice President, an employee of the United States Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee 

Keith Gray

So, I am trying to see the difference with the Redskin's trademarks being cancelled by the US Patent Office... It's OK to take away a trademark by the US Government, but not OK for a sitting President to voice his opinion... and how is the President's opinion any different than those who would disrespect our National Anthem? Are we playing favorites again???

Mark Aaron

Keith: " It's OK to take away a trademark by the US Government, but not OK for a sitting President to voice his opinion..."

Conflate
kənˈflāt/
verb
verb: conflate; 3rd person present: conflates; past tense: conflated; past participle: conflated; gerund or present participle: conflating

combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.
"the urban crisis conflates a number of different economic and social issues"

Mark Aaron

Jim: "Wrongfully influencing a private entity’s employment decisions by a Member of Congress or an officer or employee of the legislative or executive branch."

Time to impeach Trump and lock him up for high crimes and high misdemeanors.

Bill Cochrane

Ok, let’s take a close look at all this Knee stuff. It’s all about the 1st amendment, right? A football quarterback takes a knee to protest police treatment of racial minorities. He finally got the attention he wanted on the field. Then others decided they want some attention too. So they take a knee, all claiming the 1st amendment protects their right to free speech expression. Then a guy (Trump) uses the same 1st amendment to express his views about football players taking a knee. Now the knee-takers are taking a knee to protest that guy (Trump) for expression his views. I’m sure that some group of protesters will take a knee to protest the knee-takers who are protesting Trump. Then all across America people will start taking a knee to protest everything. Everything. A cop pulls you over – take a knee. Your boss asks you to do a little work – take a knee. A statue offends you – ta . . . no, wait, tear it down? Apple will surely develop and market a device to help us with this. How about an – iKneepad app?

Mark Aaron

Bill: "iKneepad app?"

LOL!

Walter Manuel

The president’s comments turned the anthems — usually sung during commercials — into must-watch television shown live by the networks and Yahoo.

Once again the media will always glamorize whatever is happening in the world good or bad at the time in order to get their viewers, but they should not help further divide our country by changing what they have traditionally done in the past just to make their ratings by airing any protest of any kind.

Maybe I'll take a knee today at work when I'm asked to care for someone who doesn't believe in the same beliefs that I have and let's see just how long it takes for me to make myself available to the market?

Mark Aaron

Walter: "Once again the media will always glamorize whatever is happening in the world good or bad at the time in order to get their viewers"

So you think the media should hide the truth from their viewers like they do in Russia?

"Maybe I'll take a knee today at work when I'm asked to care for someone who doesn't believe in the same beliefs that I have"

You are not much of a fan of the 1st Amendment, are you Walter? Or is it that you just don't care if Black Americans are mistreated by the authorities?

George Croix

After thinking about it more, I'd rather see 'protesters' taking a knee than refusing to even let another speak, or rioting, and/or looting, and I hope it catches on with 'progressives' instead of their predictable more 'active' expressions of their limitless pique and victimism.
Could be worse. We could all be taking a knee or bowing when the Queen shows up.
That's why we're citizens, and not subjects
Besides, the American wannabe Queen lost.....[innocent]

Mark Aaron

George: "I hope it catches on with 'progressives' instead of their predictable more 'active' expressions of their limitless pique and victimism."

Obviously you choose to forget how your Tea Party brethren started much of this a few years ago when they appeared at Democratic politicians town halls across America and shouted down the speakers. But I'm sure that was different, eh George?

Carlos Ponce

"Prior to the Houston Texans game in Foxboro, Massachusetts on Sunday, every player on the Texans roster stood together with locked arms during the National Anthem."
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/24/houston-texans-all-stand-lock-arms-during-national-anthem/
Trump tweeted:
"Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings! 1:20 PM - Sep 24, 2017"
High school football players stand in a row along the sidelines facing the flag during the anthem. Their right hand on their teammates' right shoulder, their left hand holding their removed helmet.

Jim Forsythe

Jeremy Shockey was right about placing their hand over heart, this includes High School football players and coaches..

Near the end of last football season, Carolina Panthers tight end Jeremy Shockey publicly made it clear how proper etiquette for the singing of the National Anthem is necessary to show respect for the flag and those who fought for it. He criticized several Houston Texan players for not putting their hand over the heart as the National Anthem was performed.

36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
(a)Designation.—
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A)
individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B)
members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C)
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2)
when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

Steve Fouga

Thankfully the Code uses the word "should," rather than "must," right? And God bless the writers of the Code for not forcing us to sing it. Personally, at sporting events I stand and place my hand over my heart when the anthem is played. I care not one bit what others do.

In my own home, when the anthem is played I invariably choose to remain seated.

Carlos Ponce

"In my own home, when the anthem is played I invariably choose to remain seated.'
Really?
I stand even for the Black National Anthem - "Lift Every Voice and Sing." I guess you wouldn't stand for that anthem either.[sad]

Mark Aaron

Carlos: "I stand even for the Black National Anthem"

Sure you do Carlos.

Mr. Tamug93

Personally, I think it is disgusting that anyone who profits under the very freedom that others have died for would take a knee during the National Anthem (and then stand during the British National Anthem). I would rather you just stay in Britain.

What is even more disgusting is the media's attention to this and that includes this mediocre news organization. They charge for every story they put out there with regards to Galveston County but when there is a story that is politically advantageous for the Left (yes, the Galveston Daily News), they put it out there open to all the masses. Nothing like furthering their cause. Let's see if they actually allow my free speech.

Mark Aaron

Mr. T: "Personally, I think it is disgusting that anyone who profits under the very freedom that others have died for would take a knee during the National Anthem"

So you are not a fan of free speech or freedom of the press? Sounds like you would prefer State TV like they have in Russia, or at least Fox News.

Jim Forsythe

Do you agree with,the First Amendment is not extended to the Football field? Do they have to check in their rights,before they go to work.
"Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on ABC's "This Week" that players have "the right to have the First Amendment off the field."
The people in the stands, should they be ejected from the stadium, if they do not stand with hand over their heart? 

Should our President tell bossiness who they should fire, or keep?
The protests, which had largely died down in the NFL, come in the wake of Trump’s comments at a political rally Friday, when he challenged NFL owners to fire any player who didn’t stand for the anthem.
.
Last week the protest were dyeing down, now the flames of protest have been fanned again. Last week 4 players did not stand. This week , it was 204 or more, and not just the players
"The protests were a stand of unity against comments made by President Donald Trump saying that NFL players who refused to stand for the national anthem should be fired or suspended "

How are some teams handling it.
Three teams — the Steelers, Seahawks and Titans — sat out the anthem altogether, remaining in their locker rooms before taking the field. This may become the norm in the future. It has not always been played, before a sporting events starts. 

"Ultimately, it's something that a lot of American are going to agree with him on," GOP strategist Brian Darling said.
Steele, the former chairman of the Republican Party, said Americans should be upset that the president is dividing them, regardless of whether it makes sense politically.
"I don't give a damn if it's helpful to him or not. That should not be the standard we're applying. Screw that," he said. "The standard should be is what the president's saying and doing helpful or harmful to the American people."

President Trump keeps pressing about what a business should do, in direct violation of 18 U.S. Code § 227 - Wrongfully influencing a private entity’s employment

Carlos Ponce

Jim posts, "Do you agree with,the First Amendment is not extended to the Football field?" That's undeniable Jim.
If they have First Amendment Rights on the football field then there would be no penalties for some of the performances in after touchdown celebrations.
If they have First Amendment Rights on the football field then the NFL would have had no problem with the Dallas Cowboys wearing a pro-police symbol on their helmets.
And while many of the Steelers stayed in the locker room, Alejandro Villanueva stood in tunnel quite visible with hand over heart during the anthem. Standing behind him but not so visible were other Steeler football players with hands over hearts.Yet the MSM says "only one" Steeler stood.

Mark Aaron

Carlos: "If they have First Amendment Rights on the football field then there would be no penalties for some of the performances in after touchdown celebrations."

I bet you didn't have anything bad to say when Tim Tebow took a knee and/or tried to use his public position to proselytize his religious beliefs on the field. I also bet you would have sided with the bus company when Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back of the bus.

" then the NFL would have had no problem with the Dallas Cowboys wearing a pro-police symbol on their helmets."

Poor Carlos. What an absurd argument. As if they were even related. The NFL has always had strict guidelines about what can appear on a team's uniforms.

George Croix

Darn, Jim...that's a stretch, that wrongly influencing employment thingy....
BUT, if you're right, as I know you so often are, then it looks like there should have been no Presidential level influencing of minimum wage laws and the companies paying same, no interference in the insurance industries that effected their staffing, and the auto companies should never have been bailed out to save jobs, and there should have been no subsidies for 'green energy' that cost taxpayers more money to create a 'job' there, than the employee got paid....etc........
Seems to me to be a distinction out much difference as far as 'interference' goes between Pres. Trump's calling for people disrespecting this nation to be fired, and with another President calling for the punishment/removal of a Policeman who shot a strong arm robber or of Officers accused of wrongdoing before an investigation was even made, with the latter being more egregious....
Personally, I think BOTH Presidnets 'acted stupidly' in so doing these things.
Oops, better add that, to, to influencing the Cambridge Police officer's employment....
[wink]

Jim Forsythe

George . Remember , tweeting may do him in.
It's on the books, but very unlikely to be enfource, unless the Republican's turn on him. Stranger things have happen. 
The would be easyer than Impeachment, as it carries, if found guilty  imprisoned for not more than 15 years,  and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor.

George Croix

Jim, what do you mean UNLESS the Republicans turn on him?
Looks to me like the ones who are not a dimes difference from being Democrats, already have....[beam]
Yep...the darn tweeting puts him too often at the same level as just another social media/internet troll....even when he's right.....
He's right when he says the First Amendment does not extend to the right to say whatever you want while on the job....but, it doesn't matter...he wasn't elected to be a troll, but to get things done for the betterment of the country, not the 'fundamental change' of it....
Well, whatever.....we've already seen a benchmark for incompetence and deceipt and even espionage set by the same characters, elected ones and private citizens, who don't care what the ex-Pres. or the never-gonna-be-one did, so I'd say at this point unless Pres. Trump is complicit in killing Americans at an embassy then lying about 'videos' or playing fast and loose with national secrets on a basement bathroom server, he'll survive....
If he'd just shut up and stop feeding the other trolls in private and in the media, a lot of good could be done to restore the greatest country the world has ever known.....the one that didn't need that 'fundamental change', because we are the good guys, not the bad guys....
Jim, I had forgotten to ask how your son made out with the rising floodwater. You were concerned he might get flooded. Hope he didn't.

Jim Forsythe

He did not have flooding, thanks for asking

George Croix

Glad to hear that, Jim.

Mark Aaron

George: "..that's a stretch, that wrongly influencing employment thingy....
BUT, if you're right, as I know you so often are, then it looks like there should have been no Presidential level influencing of minimum wage laws and the companies paying same, no interference in the insurance industries that effected their staffing, and the auto companies should never have been bailed out to save jobs, and there should have been no subsidies for 'green energy' that cost taxpayers more money to create a 'job' there, than the employee got paid....etc......"

Typical George misrepresentation. There is a huge difference between going after an individual personally and affecting national policy. Also in typical George fashion you lie about President Obama while you try to minimize and excuse Trump's blatant misbehavior.

Mark Aaron

Jim: "Do you agree with,the First Amendment is not extended to the Football field? Do they have to check in their rights,before they go to work."

That depends on who they work for Jim. The Bill of Rights only restricts the Government as I understand it.. An employer could deny workers the right to protest on their dime or in/on their facility.

Jim Forsythe


The NFL's goes by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. 

"If they have First Amendment Rights on the football field then there would be no penalties for some of the performances in after touchdown celebrations.". They have a contract that covers that.  Below are some of the changes for this year.

The NFL is putting the fun back in football.
On Tuesday, the league announced it will relax rules on celebrations.
Bring on the fade-away jumpers, snow angels, and group dances.
Examples of celebrations to be allowed under the new guidelines:
» Using the football as a prop after a touchdown
» Celebrating on the ground
» Group demonstrations 
The relaxed rules aren't a free for all. Offensive demonstrations, celebrations that are prolonged and delay the game, and celebrations directed at an opponent, will still be penalized, the letter said, in order continue "sportsmanship, clean competition, and setting good examples for young athletes." .
In short, three-pump twerking is still a no-go.
The Commissioner Roger Goodell, has the last say on this, per the agreement

"If they have First Amendment Rights on the football field then the NFL would have had no problem with the Dallas Cowboys wearing a pro-police symbol on their helmets". This is covered in the agreement ,It covers what a player can and cannot wear, including symbols.
“Everyone has to be uniform with the league and the other 31 teams,” Stephen Jones (Dallas Cowboys), the team’s executive vice-president, said Wednesday (via the Dallas Morning News). “We respect their decision.”
The team can wear the decals, which include a five-pointed star and the words “Arm in Arm,” during training camp practices, though.
“There are so many wonderful, wonderful causes, the league has to be careful,” Jones said earlier of the possibility that the decals might not be approved. “If you allow one, then what do you do about every team that has a great reason to have something on their helmets?
“There are tons of things out there that need to be recognized. Once you open that Pandora’s box, how do you ever stop?”

"And while many of the Steelers stayed in the locker room, Alejandro Villanueva stood in tunnel quite visible with hand over heart during the anthem. Standing behind him but not so visible were other Steeler football players with hands over hearts". That the point, it may become the norm. If less players are on the field, then the protest may decrease.

Carlos Ponce

Personally, I don't care for after touchdown celebrations. Too easy for a player to get hurt showing off. Another reason I quit watching the NFL. Now, a Catholic man crossing himself to thank God doesn't harm anyone.
"Stephen Tulloch joins former kicker Bill Gramatica in NFL players to infamously injure themselves while celebrating."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/21/stephen-tulloch-celebrating-injury_n_5857644.html
"Lamarr Houston became the second NFL player in a month to injure his knee doing an emphatic version of the 'discount double-check' celebration following a sack."
http://www.businessinsider.com/chicago-bears-lamarr-houston-injury-2014-10
"23 Athletes Who Injured Themselves While Celebrating"
http://www.totalprosports.com/2014/10/28/23-athletes-who-injured-themselves-while-celebrating/
Fun or STUPID?

Mark Aaron

Carlos: "Now, a Catholic man crossing himself to thank God doesn't harm anyone. "

So according to Carlos it is okay to proselytize your religious beliefs on the field, but not to protest mistreatment of minorities. Typical snowflake.

I see you again cite Huffington Post as a source, Carlos.

Carlos Ponce

"Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."
http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rulebook-a62-63-national-anthem-rule/
But the article adds "It's important to note the use of the word "may" here. The NFL is not considering punishing fines on players or teams who choose to kneel or stay in the locker room during the national anthem, the spokesperson says."
So what they're saying is that it's Game Operations Manual but we're not going to enforce it.

Steve Fouga

It says "should," not "must."

Carlos Ponce

Definition of "should"
1. simple past tense of shall.
2. (used to express condition):
Were he to arrive, I should be pleased.
3. must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency):
You should not do that.
4. would (used to make a statement less direct or blunt):
I should think you would apologize.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/should
So "should" means "must" [smile]

Mark Aaron

Carlos: "So "should" means "must" "

So you think Americans must be forced to engage in patriotic ceremonies like they do in Russia Carlos?

Fortunately the US Supreme Court doesn't agree.

_“If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein,” said Justice Robert Jackson._

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/does-the-united-states-or-other-countries-compel-national-anthem-etiquette

Steve Fouga

Not to the NFL

Jim Forsythe

"So what they're saying is that it's Game Operations Manual but we're not going to enforce it". They are saying , they are a business, and can run it as they see fit. .Your choice, watch the NFL games or not. The 32 owners make the rules, and  any changes is up to them. ,
What has the NFL said? Not required to stand.
The NFL said Monday that it would not punish teams that skipped the national anthem before their games Sunday.
“There will be no discipline handed down this week,” spokesman Joe Lockhart told reporters Monday. He added that the NFL is not considering discontinuing playing the national anthem ahead of games.
“Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem,” the NFL said in 2016 when former San Francisco 49ers player Colin Kaepernick garnered national attention kneeling in protest when the anthem was played.

Carlos Ponce

So....... what they're saying is that it's Game Operations Manual but we're not going to enforce it.

Jim Forsythe

When you are in charge, you can choose what is best for your Business.
The 32 Owner's can choose what to enforce .
How many laws do we have, that are not enforce? Just because it is on the books does not mean that it will be enforced ,or should be.

At this time, this is what they think is best.
If they want to change ,as to what they are doing, it may be brought up in the January Owners meeting.
Until that time , do not look for much to change.

George Croix

"When you are in charge, you can choose what is best for your Business."
Well, Jim, you can sure choose what you THINK is best for your business, and ignore any thoughts or entreaties to the contrary....That's a fact. As it should be.... my home/business, my rules.....
It's also a fact that if you decide wrong, you can end up with a big real or rhetorical smoking hole and fire, and it's to late then to listen to all the advice you should have listened to in the first place....as we both know way too well, up close and personal.....
Ya pays your money, and ya takes your choice. Trick is not to harm others in that choice....
Not much danger here for the owners, or players, imo.....they know darn good and well where the priorities of what I'm afraid may well be most Americans are. Certainly too many, imo, at best. When the fans are made up of the same folks who can name the Kardashian episodes, but don't know what the three branches of their own federal government are, the last thing you worry about is anything other than bread and circuses....
Maybe it'll work out better this time than it did for the Romans......[whistling]
Pres. Trump? Well, he could declare a chicken for every pot and get hammered for not buying everybody a pot the same size. Even at that, he's his own worst enemy....which makes it somewhat mind boggling that he's still several orders of magnitude better than the what he replaced, and what he beat.
Well, no good deed goes unpunished..... [beam][beam][beam][innocent][rolleyes][whistling][wink]

Carlos Ponce

So....... what you're saying is that they have a Game Operations Manual but they're not going to enforce it.

Mark Aaron

George: "....they know darn good and well where the priorities of what I'm afraid may well be most Americans are. Certainly too many, imo, at best.

Poor snowflake trolls are upset that most Americans support freedom of speech and condemn racism.

"Even at that, he's his own worst enemy....which makes it somewhat mind boggling that he's still several orders of magnitude better than the what he replaced, and what he beat."

Then why does every poll find Trump to be the most detested president in modern American history, George? Is everybody stupid but you?

Jim Forsythe

When you are in charge, you can choose what is best for your Business.
The 32 Owner's can choose what to enforce .
How many laws do we have, that are not enforce? Just because it is on the books does not mean that it will be enforced ,or should be.
At this time, this is what they think is best.
If they want to change ,as to what they are doing, it may be brought up in the January Owners meeting.
Until that time , do not look for much to change

Carlos Ponce

Jim posts, "When you are in charge, you can choose what is best for your Business."
NFL attendance is down in most markets.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2016
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2017
NFL TV ratings are down.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/20/media/nfl-tv-ratings-week-2/index.html
JD Power says its because of the protests.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games
"best for your business"??????????

Mark Aaron

Carlos: "NFL attendance is down in most markets."

Yeah, poor players and owners living lives of destitution.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/sep/24/donald-trump/trumps-mostly-false-claim-nfl-ratings-are-way-down/

Jim Forsythe

"best for your business" is to maximize the revenue and profit . This has increase each year with the NFL. 
In 2014, the NFL made $12 billion in revenue, and made a profit of almost $1 billion. . While last year’s revenue hasn’t been reported yet, before the season began the league expected its revenue to be about $13 billion.

Add money and TV rights are the money makers.
Mar 1, 2017
NFL TV Ad Revenue Hits Record $3.5 Billion (2016 )Despite Drop In Ratings up 3% over 2015, according to research firm Standard Media Index

Right to broadcast  games is were most of the revenue comes from. 7 billion in 2016.
TV money the 32 NFL teams get each year. CBS, Fox, NBC and ESPN/ABC paid roughly $5 billion last year for the rights to NFL games (DirecTV, NFL Network and foreign deals kicked in another $2 billion). The haul helped push the average NFL value to $2.34 billion with profits likely to top $100 million per team in 2016

. Merchandising revenue represents  about 8% of the total revenue. 

Carlos Ponce

Raise your seating prices, the cost of concessions, the cost per televised ad, the cost for merchandise and licensing and your revenue will increase. Your attendance and viewership, however....[rolleyes]

Jim Forsythe

"When you are in charge, you can choose what is best for your Business."   What is the goal for Business, PROFIT.
 
"Your attendance and viewership, however" Their product is selling at a average of  more than 90% , and  40%  of their product selling at over 100% . How many business sell at this level.
13 out of 32 teams are above 100%  capacity and the lowest 82.6 %   
Cincinnati at 82.6% capacity. Four teams  are in the 80%  capacity and  12 are in the 90% for capacity. 3 teams have not had a home
game yet
Long term plans to increases attendance. Moving a underperforming team takes time.
This look at the Oakland Raiders.   They have seating capacity of 56,057 for football. Their only home game this year was the Jets, which drew  54,729.  Not bad for a team that is moving away within 3 years, which is part  of a  plan to increase attendance  They are moving to Las Vegas where .they will play in a 65,000-seat domed football stadium  It will be like the Texans and the Cowboys , sold out every game.
Second part of the plan, is to move two teams to Europe.

Kimberley Jones Yancy

I really wish our President would stop being so divisive. I love my country and will honor the flag by standing however I will also defend the first amendment. This is not about nationalism. Who is more patriotic you or me? Because I stand during the national anthem or because I stand for justice when a trigger happy cop kills an unarmed American man? Standing of course for the flag is quite easier. President Trump has some series issues to call any Americans SONS of ******. Who does that? Is this our new norm? If we allow words like this come from Trump then yes more people will kneel out of protest. Some of you are more upset at the kneelers than our President. Seriously, someone needs to put some ADHD medicine in his coffee to calm him down. Some of us want to grow our business, invest in our communities and have unity. Why does he continue to glamorize the worst parts of our history; the underbelly of American sins? Lets just bring some solutions to the table instead of fanning the flame with derogatory comments. I am praying for my President.

Carlos Ponce

"I really wish our President would stop being so divisive." This must be an old post from the Obama years.
Remember when he said "White Folk's Greed Runs a World In Need"? Now THAT'S Divisive!

Jim Forsythe

 Think about what the President  just did. None of the following (below) has gone his way,so he goes after events like the NFL knelling,NBA going to the White House, all to try and not make the other events,  the lead stories in the news.

He should be spending his time, working on the following ,with all members of the Senate and the House.
Repeal of Obama care  has not happen, yet.
Boarder Wall  not started.
Tax reform , may not happen..
Word war with North Korea, that may start WW111
Russia probe  

Carlos Ponce

"Repeal of Obama care has not happen, yet". As a Liberal I'd think you'd be happy it hasn't. Fell short by the a couple of votes by the usual RINOS. It'll happen. Be patient. Not Trump's fault. Obamacare passed because of "incentives" offered to hold out Dems. They're trying to avoid that here.
"Boarder Wall not started".- Several companies have built prototypes with bids to be submitted soon. And it's "border".
"Tax reform , may not happen.." - Be patient
Word war with North Korea, that may start WW111- WW3? With the UN vote saying NK is in the wrong? I doubt it. Strategic response to minimize damage will highlight the encounter with North Korea.
Russia probe- No collusion between Trump and Russia will show up. The further Mueller looks into it the more shenanigans from the Obama administration turn up. Will Dems ask Mueller to stop lest all their foibles be revealed?

Jim Forsythe

A Senator works for the people, that sends them to D.C. .Senator  Murkowski stated after the first vote on health care , why she voted no. 
The Graham-Cassidy bill did not address the problems she had with the first vote. 
She said she could not support the second try, without the changes Alaska needed. 
If more Senators would vote for what is needed back home, we would all be better off.

Murkowski told reporters Monday that she could not say how she is leaning because she doesn't have any hard numbers. The Congressional Budget Office said it will only provide a preliminary assessment next week to determine whether the legislation complies with the budget reconciliation process.
"I will use the governor's words," she said, referring to Alaska Gov. Bill Walker. "He said, 'I understand that a block grant gives me increased flexibility, but if I don't have the dollars to help implement the flexibility, that doesn't help us much.' So, we are both trying to figure out how those dollars fall."
Alaska would likely lose out under the Graham-Cassidy bill, which calls for eliminating federal funding for Medicaid expansion and the subsidies that help many enrollees pay for premiums. Instead, the bill would provide a lump sum of money to states to help residents pay for health care through 2026.
The state has benefited greatly from both of these Obamacare provisions. It is one of 31 states to expand Medicaid to low-income residents, and its health insurance premiums are among the highest in the nation because of its remote, rural location.
Some 14,000 residents were enrolled in Obamacare policies at the end of February, with 93% of them qualifying for federal premium subsidies, according to federal data. Meanwhile, nearly 34,000 adults have Medicaid coverage because of expansion, according to the state's Department of Health and Social Services. The state's uninsured rate dropped to 14% last year, down from 18.5% in 2013, before Obamacare was enacted, according to US Census Bureau


Jim Forsythe

GOP and incentives.
“This draft includes 3 separate provisions benefitting Alaska.
1. Alaska (along with Hawaii) will continue to receive Obamacare’s premium tax credits while they are repealed for all other states. It appears this exemption will not affect Alaska receiving its state allotment under the new block grant in addition to the premium tax credits.
2. Delays implementation of the Medicaid per capita caps for Alaska and Hawaii for years in which the policy would reduce their funding below what they would have received in 2020 plus CPI-M [Consumer Price Index for Medical Care].
3. Provides for an increased federal Medicaid matching rate (FMAP) for both Alaska and Hawaii.”

More Medicaid money *and* Alaskans continue to get some sugar back from the IRS to help pay for their insurance that the rest of the country, apart from Hawaii, would not. “In essence,” writes Peter Suderman, “they would be attempting to bribe Murkowski to vote to repeal Obamacare by letting her state keep Obamacare.” How’s that for PR for the GOP’s new bill? Their new system is such an improvement over the old that they couldn’t pass without guaranteeing Alaska that it could … keep the old one.

Jim Forsythe

Sep. 21, 2017
After the Homeland Security money runs out, how will it be financed.
The wall samples being built now are using money that was already in Homeland Security coffers. The government has said the concrete prototypes will cost an average of about $450,000.." 

Up to 800 mile of the 1000 miles for the border wall, may end up in court. Could take 10 years or more in court battles
"Over half of the 2,000-mile border between Mexico and the US sits in Texas, where hundreds of miles of land remains unrestricted by a wall. This area includes nearly 5,000 parcels of property in a wall's likely path — which could prompt court battles between the US government and private landowners.
Since a 2006 law paved the way for barriers along the southern border, hundreds of land-seizure cases have been brought against landowners who hold property in border territory. As of this year, at least 85 cases were still pending" 

"Garrett estimated that only 20% of landowners would accept the federal government's offer to use their land."

State right's are being looked at. 
Texas is not the only potential battlefield in the border-wall proposal. On Wednesday, Reuters reported that California filed a lawsuit on Wednesday accusing the wall of violating federal environmental standards and constitutional provisions on the separation of powers and states' rights."

Does a Government project, ever come in under budget?
The Department of Homeland Security estimated that the border wall could cost $21 billion. An MIT study estimated that the cost could double that.

Trump, however, has generally remained steadfast. "Ultimately, we have to have the wall," Trump told reporters earlier this month. "If we don't have the wall, we're doing nothing."


George Croix

The sea change in attitudes and excuses toward negative comments and and divisiveness is really something to observe.....it's like about half the nation has been asleep since January 2009.
Pres. Trump certainly needs to get some control of those things, a LOT of control, and shut up and get to work, but to pretend that it's a first for a Pres. is the stuff of...well, stuff....."let me be clear about that"...Period.
Of course, one can pretend that our last Pres. did not set race relations, as but one example, back to the point of about, oh, the 70's....and pretend that's not more divisive than PO'g a bunch of overpaid prima dona athletes, and I support your right to delude yourself into thinking that.
By the same measure, one can pretend that our current Pres. is just 'standing up for our country' in castigating the snowflakes, rather than butting into what a President elected to correct big mistakes should not be butting into, but it's no different than claiming that "they acted stupidly" as a blanket condemnation.
So, the pretense does fall, in both directions, along some predictable, no, expected, lines.....
Hard to fix that....

Mark Aaron

George: "Of course, one can pretend that our last Pres. did not set race relations, as but one example, back to the point of about, oh, the 70's...."

The depths of your delusion and bigotry never cease to amaze, George. You have it bad, don't you? Poor little snowflake.

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