Confederate monuments

A statue honoring Confederate soldiers at the Galveston County Courthouse is named “Dignified Resignation.” A local group started a petition in 2015 to remove the statue.

JENNIFER REYNOLDS/The Daily News

Galveston County Judge Mark Henry said he would not support the removal of the Confederate soldiers monument in front of the Galveston County courthouse on 21st Street.

“I would not support removing it,” Henry said Wednesday. “Where does this end? Today they’re offended by these statues. Tomorrow they’re offended by something else. Where’s the end of this?”

“Dignified Resignation” depicts a man holding a Confederate flag over his left shoulder and a broken sword in his right hand. Behind him is a dismantled cannon. At his feet is a scroll that states: “GLORY TO THE DEFEATED.”

A plaque on the statue reads, “There has never been an armed force which in purity of motives, intensity of courage and heroism has equaled the Army and Navy of the Confederate States of America.”

Henry said he believes the statue represents history and would not support tearing it down.

“I’ve heard from dozens of people that say ‘don’t you dare take it down,’” Henry said. “I’ve not heard from a single group that wants to take it down.”

Cities around the country have wrestled with questions about whether to remove Confederate monuments in recent years. The movement gained traction after the 2015 murder of nine people in a black church in Charleston, S.C.

The events in Charlottesville, Va., last weekend began with a rally that was ostensibly about preserving a monument to Confederate general Robert E. Lee at the University of Virginia.

This week, some cities have removed Confederate monuments. City officials in Baltimore took down four statues Tuesday night. Gainesville, Fla., and Lexington, Ky., announced plans to move forward with removals this weekend.

On Wednesday afternoon, Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner ordered a review of Confederate statues in that city, and asked for recommendations about what to do with them.

A group of protesters took it upon themselves to tear down a Confederate monument in Durham, N.C., on Monday. Henry said that if anyone did that in Galveston, he’d hope they’d be arrested.

“If they came and tore it down, they’re destroying government property and I hope the sheriff would arrest them,” Henry said.

There are more than 700 monuments to the Confederacy in public places around the nation. Most of the them are in the South.

“Dignified Resignation” was erected in 1911, decades after the end of the Civil War but in the same era when many other Confederate monuments were built.

Reacting to Charlottesville

Over the past several days, members of Congress have come out to mostly condemn what happened in Charlottesville and the hate groups associated with it.

Sen. Ted Cruz had one of the strongest responses. In a Facebook post, Cruz called for the Justice Department to investigate the “domestic terrorism” that led to the death of counter protester Heather Heyer.

“The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry, anti-Semitism and hatred that they propagate,” Cruz wrote.

Sen. John Cornyn tweeted that there was “No place for the bigotry & hate-filled violence in #Charlottesville. These actions should be condemned in the strongest possible terms.”

Both senators’ comments came before President Donald Trump on Monday specifically condemned the KKK and other hate groups.

Cornyn and Cruz have not issued public statements since the Tuesday news conference during which Trump said there was “blame on both sides” for what happened.

U.S. Rep. Randy Weber issued his first statement about Charlottesville on Wednesday afternoon.

“I adamantly condemn the violence by the white supremacist movement, period,” Weber said in a Facebook post. “The actions that unfolded over the past few days are contrary to everything for which our country stands. Violence and hate of any kind cannot be tolerated, ignored or explained away, especially when it is against a race, religion or profession.”

Speaking of … Lithuania?

Twelve members of Congress, including U.S. Rep. Randy Weber, sent a letter to Lithuania’s president July 28, decrying the country’s plans to build a convention center on a sacred Jewish site.

The Snipisek Jewish Cemetery in Vilnius, Lithuania, was mostly destroyed while the country was occupied by German and Russian forces during and after World War II. Jewish groups have sought to preserve the site for decades, calling it one of the last remnants of the city’s Jewish community. Vilnius is Lithuania’s capital and largest city.

“The cemetery is a historical site of enormous cultural significance, both locally and to the worldwide community interested in its preservation,” the letter states. “It should be treated with dignity and respect.”

The games begin?

Mayes Middleton, a Republican running against State Rep. Wayne Faircloth in next year’s primary election for House District 23, hasn’t said much publicly about his opponent since declaring for the race earlier this year. That changed last night, when Middleton tweeted about Faircloth.

“Why does Wayne support Speaker who single-handedly killed Gov. Abbott’s conservative agenda and hurts the taxpayers of Chambers/Galveston?,” Middleton wrote about Faircloth and Texas Speaker of the House Joe Straus.

The shot aligns with far-right conservatives in the House of Representatives, who were critical of Straus over his refusal to move ahead with some of the most conservative pieces of legislation offered during the session: including a bathroom bill and new limitations on property taxes.

The House Republican Caucus met privately Wednesday, reportedly to consider how to change rules about electing speakers. The caucus did not end up changing any bylaws Wednesday.

Redrawing districts

A federal court in San Antonio ruled Tuesday that two Texas Congressional Districts are unconstitutional. One is Congressional District 27, represented by U.S. Rep. Blake Farenthold, a Corpus Christi Republican. The districts will be redrawn — although what the new lines will be and who will draw them remains to be seen.

The district is adjacent to Congressional District 14, which includes Galveston County. (In fact, parts of CD-27 were once part of the same district as Galveston.) The court asked parties involved in the decision to consult with experts to “minimize the effect on adjoining districts.”

In a statement after the ruling, Texas Attorney Gen. Ken Paxton said he intended to appeal the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Notebook

U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz helped write an amicus brief defending a Texas plan to defund Planned Parenthood by eliminating Medicaid reimbursements to the nonprofit. The brief is signed by 42 members of Congress, including Sen. John Cornyn and Rep. Randy Weber. … Galveston County Tax Assessor/Collector Cheryl Johnson sent a letter to Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday, asking him to call a second special session on property tax reform. … U.S. Rep. Randy Weber will hold a meet-and-greet event in Galveston County on Aug. 26. The “Kolaches with the Congressman” event will be 9 a.m. at the Galveston County Annex Building, 174 Calder Road in League City. Sign up details are on Weber’s website, weber.house.gov. … Galveston District 1 Councilwoman Amy Bly confirmed to The Daily News Wednesday that she plans to run for a second term.

John Wayne Ferguson: 409-683-5226; john.ferguson@galvnews.com or on Twitter @johnwferguson.

(85) comments

Ron Shelby

The statue in front of the county courthouse is different from most. While paying memorial respect to those who fought, it properly depicts the reality.... their loss of the war. Other statues attempt to infer an idealized image of some sort of nobility of the cause. This one doesn't. From that standpoint, if there are to be statues related to the civil war, and remembering the fallen, I'd say that this one may be as close to appropriate as you can get.

Andy Brown

I just the said the same except a lot less eloquently. That'll teach me to comment without reading the others first. LOL.

I agree with Ron! Haha!

Carol Dean

Let me think, Ron...didn't you move to someplace in Georgia a number of years ago!?!

Carlos Ponce

No need to remove the statue. It does not glorify war, nor slavery, not any specific person but those who fought and lost.
"U.S. Public Law 810, Approved by 17th Congress 26 February 1929
(45 Stat 1307 – Currently on the books as 38 U.S. Code, Sec. 2306)
This law, passed by the U.S. Congress, authorized the “Secretary of War to erect headstones over the graves of soldiers who served in the Confederate Army and to direct him to preserve in the records of the War Department the names and places of burial of all soldiers for whom such headstones shall have been erected.
U.S. Public Law 85-425: Sec. 410 Approved 23 May 1958
(US Statutes at Large Volume 72, Part 1, Page 133-134)
The Administrator shall pay to each person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War a monthly pension in the same amounts and subject to the same conditions as would have been applicable to such person under the laws in effect on December 31, 1957, if his service in such forces had been service in the military or naval forces of the United States."
So this statue commemorates US veterans.

Mark Aaron

Your Confederate apologist myths don't hold up to examination:

https://www.facingsouth.org/2015/07/busting-the-myth-that-congress-made-confederate-ve

Carlos Ponce

“Where does this end? Today they’re offended by these statues. Tomorrow they’re offended by something else. Where’s the end of this?”

Rename Galveston, rename anything named after Bernardo de Gálvez.
Galveston is named after Bernardo de Gálvez, governor of Spanish Louisiana. "He also oversaw Spain’s plan to encourage European immigration and the importation of enslaved Africans to Louisiana in order to facilitate economic growth."
http://www.knowlouisiana.org/entry/bernardo-de-glvez
There is also a bronze statue to him in Washington DC. Guess they'll want to remove the statue of a slave importer.

Rename Houston, city and county, remove Sam Houston's statues
Sam Houston, hero of the Texas Revolution was a slave owner.

Remove anything to do with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and 41 signers of the Declaration of Independence who all owned slaves.

People who want to erase history will never learn.
In the book "1984" they re-wrote history to match the Party line. A lot of that going on in 2017.

Mark Aaron

"Today they’re offended by these statues. Tomorrow they’re offended by something else."

This kind of logical fallacy is known as the "slippery slope" where in all manner of bad things are supposed to follow if you do something. Your answer is to ignore important facts because of something that might result if you deal with them.I say face the facts and deal with the outcome. Glorifying bigotry is never a good thing. Tear that monument to hate down.

Carlos Ponce

With Al Sharpton critical of the Jefferson Memorial, its more than a "slippery slope".
No logical fallacy but logical reality.

George Croix

“Where does this end? Today they’re offended by these statues. Tomorrow they’re offended by something else. Where’s the end of this?”

Ab-so-lute-ly...
Good for Mark Henry.
Bad for all who let themselves be intimidated.

The latest 'movement' is not a dime's worth of difference between the ones who wanted to burn all the books they disagreed with or were 'offended' by....
Very telling.....
imo....

Here's a clue:
History is just that..and without it's reminders, we tend to repeat it.

Mark Aaron

Then put it in a museum decrying slavery and those who enabled it. Don't glorify it.

Mark Aaron

This war veteran says tear that hateful symbol down. There is nothing "pure" about the motive to sustain human slavery. That statue is not a symbol of heritage, it is a symbol of hate and profound bigotry.

Carlos Ponce

"That statue is not a symbol of heritage, it is a symbol of hate and profound bigotry."
WRONG, but thank you for your service. You DID fight on the American side, right?

Mark Aaron

Confederates/Rebels were traitors to the United States. Sorry that is so difficult for you to grasp.

Carlos Ponce

"Confederates/Rebels were traitors to the United States. Sorry that is so difficult for you to grasp." Congress recognized ALL who fought on the side of the Confederacy as US Veterans (just like you if you are a US Vet) and able to receive benefits. Sorry that is so difficult for you to grasp.
So the men portrayed on the statue are on equal footing with you in the eyes of American Law and in the eyes of God.

RICHARD DAVIS

The United States was formed by traitors to England!
Maybe instead of trying to destroy history you should learn something from it.

Christopher Smith

Wow Carlos. This is low even for you. It is one thing to disagree with someone but to mockingly thank someone for their military service and then question whether they fought for their country is really a kind of sad and despicable.

Carlos Ponce

Not really. He said he was a "war veteran". There are many wars fought by many countries. To assume would be presumptuous. Not "sad and despicable" but inquisitive asking for clarification. And I thank all who served their country. No mocking at all.

Mark Aaron

Thank you for speaking up in defense of veterans. I have a hard time understanding how someone could equate traitors and murderous bigots with American veterans who honor and defend our Union and Constitution. Some people just can't see beyond their own biases I guess. Sad that.

Carlos Ponce

Those who fought for the Confederacy WERE American Veterans recognized by this country by Law. They served through no fault of their own. More than a majority never owned slaves. They fought to protect their homes. Why hate?

George Croix

Should all maps, artifacts, and references to the continent of Africa be put in a museum, too, and not 'glorified' seeing as how it was the African people who started selling other African people into slavery....?
For that matter, in some places, still are...

It would do many well to remember that a bigot is a person intolerant of others, and keep in mind that one cannot make the accusation without being one themselves.

Mark Aaron

It would do many well to remember that a bigot is a person intolerant of others"

So you believe pointing out bigotry is bigotry. How sad for you. I'm not sure where you got your moral compass at, but you should ask for a refund.

George Croix

Don't be sad for me.
I'm not the one being two-faced and looking to remove history because it makes someone feel bad.

Mark Aaron

"I'm not the one being two-faced and looking to remove history because it makes someone feel bad."

There is nothing two-faced about condemning the glorification of treason and the cruelest of bigotry. Avidly supporting such a travesty is quite sad and has nothing to do with decency or patriotism. Sorry that isn't obvious to you.

Kimberley Jones Yancy

George this is not true. Portugal was the first nation to start selling African slaves. Slavery in Africa was much different than slavery in North America. Slavery in North America was much more harsh. Visit the new African-American museum in Washington to learn more about this. There is no comparison between the two.

George Croix

Ms. Yancy, thank you for the correction about 'first'. Unfortunately, I'm still correct about the 'still are'.....it's a terrible thing existing for centuries....
My point was that African people sold their own kind into slavery, and I'm sure you know that they also aided people from other countries in the rounding up of them.
That should also not be forgotten, when we are not forgetting all the rest.
True evil is color blind
I made no judgement of nor equivalency to the degree of misery wherever the slaves ended up. Any was, and is, too much. Any individual actually, personally, subjected to it no doubt has a different viewpoint about harshness than those of us who've never experienced it.
If I ever go to DC, I'll be sure to visit the museum.

Steve Fouga

This is a confounding issue -- not just the Galveston statue, but all Confederate statues. I'm thinking out loud here, but if I were trying to solve it, I would create some guiding principles:

1) Expunging history is ALWAYS a bad idea, period. History is something to be proud of or to decry, to learn from but never to expunge. To whitewash or expunge is Hitlerian, Stalinian. It's a type of retro-active fake news.
2) As for the statues themselves, my going-in position is that NONE would be destroyed.
3) Confederate soldiers and sailors were American citizens. They should be treated differently from other enemies. Many, maybe most, Southern officers were distinguished AMERICANS before and after the Civil War.
4) If possible, i.e., if there were money, I would restate plaques or inscriptions to reflect reality: state that the soldier chose to become an enemy of the United States to support his state, which had voted to secede and wage war; list his wins and losses, so to speak; state his background; list his accomplishments before, during, and after the war; etc. There's no need to mention slavery, unless said soldier had a particular pro or con stance. Nathan Bedford Forrest comes to mind.
5) Wherever possible, I would relocate the statues to museums. Museums are understood by most to be educational venues, and I know for a fact there are plenty of them that display captured German and Japanese artifacts from WWII, photos and mannequins of enemy soldiers, etc.

Anyway, tough problem. I doubt I would fight over a particular statue, but I'd definitely fight to protect the sanctity of history.

George Croix

A couple days ago I listened to Al Sharpton say that the Jefferson memorial should be torn down because Jefferson owned slaves.
He forgot to mention that while it's true Jefferson owned slaves, it's also true that he risked HIS life and fortune to be a founding father of this country...a country where a character like Al can make a lot of money being divisive and coattailing on an issue that he, personally, never had the slightest contact with.....
That works with a willing audience....

Steve Fouga

Kudos for hanging in there to listen to ol' Al. I usually have to leave the room or change the channel. Definitely not an A-list liberal spokesman. That's a little extreme even for Sharpton.

George Croix

We learn more from and about people different from us, with different ideas.
Don't have to agree with them.
I'd argue that Al personally has caused more misery for and created more division within more people CURRENTLY alive than anybody associated 150 years ago....
I can't see locking him a museum, though.
But, that's just me....
Soon as I get my moral compass refund, I'm going to buy several cases of Diet Coke, ice 'em down, pop a top, and think some more on how this country has gotten into the mess it's in....[beam][beam][beam][beam]

Mark Aaron

"Al Sharpton say that the Jefferson memorial should be torn down "

I can find no credible source to back up that claim, just rightwing propaganda sites like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Do you have a credible source to back that up?

Mark Aaron

" Expunging history is ALWAYS a bad idea, period"

You know what is far worse? Whitewashing history and glorifying treason and bigotry with public monuments. Put it in a museum that tells the truth about the evil it tried to perpetuate if you are so concerned with sustaining its vile memory.

George Croix

Aaron, since you asked so nice and all there's a You Tube video of Charlie Rose asking Al if he thinks the Jefferson Memorial should be torn down, and Al swaps to saying it should be defunded by taxpayer dollars.
My bad....Al does not DIRECTLY say tear it down...a distinction for sure, but not with much difference....
Here, I'll even save you the trouble of looking it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4XKIX1bs4
I'm pretty sure of a couple of things.
First is that Charlie doesn't work for Fox or Limbaugh.
Second is that your clownish comments about my moral compass and concern for protecting the memory of slavery can't be fixed. Do you actually impress anybody with that internet tough guy stuff??? If you had the ability to comprehend what's been said here rather than imposing your own conclusions, you might figure that out.
Don't like that?
I don't care.

Mark Aaron

"Al does not DIRECTLY say tear it down..."

Just as I suspected.

"Do you actually impress anybody with that internet tough guy stuff???"

Are you talking to yourself now?

Steve Fouga

I agree that misrepresenting history can be more harmful than simply expunging it. A more encompassing and possibly better way of making my original statement is "Anything other than stating the truth about history is a bad idea, period."

Not sure which I like better, but you make a good point.

Andy Brown

I've heard this "put it in a museum" solution quite a bit lately and I really don't get it. Are museums not open to the public? Do all these folks who are offended by these statues automatically check their feelings at the museum door? You still know it's there right?

Carlos Ponce

Like a horse with blinders they can only see what's set in front of them.

Mark Aaron

" Do all these folks who are offended by these statues automatically check their feelings at the museum door? You still know it's there right? "

The difference is that a monument glorifies the treason and bigotry, museums teach and inform. Why do you want to glorify treason and bigotry?

Andy Brown

As I and others have already said, this memorial does not glorify treason or bigotry.

Museums are not the only place one can be taught and informed.

Carlos Ponce

Statues DO NOT "glorify treason and bigotry". They honor the man they depict, who went on with their lives after the Civil War and accomplished much before and after the war. But Mark has HATRED for them. It is your right but not a good thing. They were pardoned by President Andrew Johnson and Congress named them US Veterans. Why so much hatred for men who are dead and buried? They can do you no harm and will be judged by God. Amazing how Liberals detest statues made in the likeness of Democrats. May I suggest you see the movie "Gods and Generals" about the men you hate. Robert Duvall plays General Robert E. Lee.

Andy Brown

This is a memorial that doesn't glorify slavery or even war. It's as about as an appropriate as you can get when it comes to confederate statues.

Carol Dean

apparently Mark doesn't know that there were more slaves in the north then there ever were in the south and that the Confederate War was NOT fought over slavery.

Jack Cross

Let see, we have people who never were slaves, tearing down statues of democrats, put up by democrats and then blaming republicans who never owned slaves but who fought democrats who voted against the civil rights act that gave many of the protesters the right to destroy property protected by law and somehow all of this is Trumps fault because he told the truth and blamed both sides for the violence.
I'm offended by the Black Congressional Caucus, What would happen if we had a white caucus. Look, I respect African Americans, they are equal as citizens and every aspect, There are more white people on both sides of this. I just don't see how going down this path is going to benefit anyone. This is a terrible risk with things the way they are here and abroad. There are a lot of middle class Americans living in moderately expensive homes, two cars and the latest electronic gadgets. A down turn in the economy would cause a lot of bankruptcies and those who are offended by a statue stand the most to lose. Our schools and colleges apparently did a good job of painting the founding fathers as bad men. I guess we will need to scrap the national anthem because Francis Scott Key was a big time slave owner.

Mark Aaron

Another Kool-Aid drinker. No one but you mentioned Democrats and Republicans here.


"I'm offended by the Black Congressional Caucus"

Have a lot of problems with Black folks, do you? How about the Caucus for Women's Issues? Do you have a problem with women in Congress too?

Mark Aaron

"the Confederate War was NOT fought over slavery."

You drank all of the Kool-Aid, didn't you? Preserving slavery is exactly why the US Civil War was fought for, no matter what Rush Limbaugh and Fox News might have told you. Even school kids know that for a fact.

Carol Dean

You are wrong, Mark, about the "Slavery War". Look it up. Why are people demanding now that they tear down the statue of Abraham Lincoln? Wasn't he the guy who came up with the Emancipation Declaration? BTW, I have a feeling you would be one of the loudest protesters if there WAS a White Caucus. This anger that is being displayed is NOT going to help anyone. The dems have been pushing for this type of behavior for years!

Carlos Ponce

Mark Aaron, I hope you passed History. Slavery is not the only reason.
5th Grade Texas TEKS
(4) History. The student understands political, economic, and social changes that occurred in the United States during the 19th century. The student is expected to:
(E) identify the causes of the Civil War, including sectionalism, states' rights, and slavery, and the effects of the Civil War, including Reconstruction and the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to the U.S. Constitution;
6th Grade Texas TEKS
(5) History. The student understands how events and issues shaped the history of Texas during the Civil War and Reconstruction. The student is expected to:
(A) explain reasons for the involvement of Texas in the Civil War such as states' rights, slavery, sectionalism, and tariffs;
8th Grade Texas TEKS
Students will be able to:
(E) identify the causes of the Civil War, including sectionalism, states' rights, and slavery, and the effects of the Civil War, including Reconstruction and the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to the U.S. Constitution

Carol Dean

I had just returned from Kansas City last night when I posted my comment about slavery and was a bit "tired"!?! I did not realize until after I went to bed that I had called the Civil War...the Confederate War! Mea Coppa

Mark Aaron

"Why are people demanding now that they tear down the statue of Abraham Lincoln? Wasn't he the guy who came up with the Emancipation Declaration?"

Do you not understand what the Emancipation Proclamation is and what it did? It ended slavery. Do you actually see that as a bad thing?

Mark Aaron

"apparently Mark doesn't know that there were more slaves in the north then there ever were in the south"

I'm not sure where you are buying your wingnut Kool-Aid but you should ask for your money back. By 1804 (including, New York (1799), New Jersey (1804)), all of the northern states had abolished slavery or set measures in place to gradually reduce it.

Mark Aaron

"This is a memorial that doesn't glorify slavery or even war. "


Did you even bother to read the article? Here is what is says on the monument,“There has never been an armed force which in purity of motives, intensity of courage and heroism has equaled the Army and Navy of the Confederate States of America.”

I don't know what world you live in, but there is nothing "pure in the motive" to preserve the evil of slavery or commit treason against the United States.

Andy Brown

So if "purity in motives" was removed you would be okay with it? I doubt it. Everyone knows slavery was a horrible thing. But to condemn every single soldier or sailor who fought for the confederacy is unfair. You don't know the motives of all these men. They could have been protecting their homes, their families. Maybe they couldn't see their brothers or fathers leave to go fight without them. Maybe they didn't have a choice at all. This is a memorial to their sacrifice. It's as simple as that.

Mark Aaron

Slavery is never defensible, just like the holocaust. A Nazi is a Nazi and a traitorous racist is a traitorous racist. Why in the world would you ever pretend otherwise? Are you not familiar with the Nuremberg trials? Just following orders is no excuse.

Andy Brown

Most of these men didn't even own slaves. Only about 6 percent of southerners did. Why would they care about defending something the couldn't even participate in. Are you suggesting they should have just ran? Left their homes? Pack up the kids in the Dodge Caravan and head up to Chicago and start selling insurance or something? It was 150 years ago. Times were different. Who are we to judge so harshly?

Carlos Ponce

"Purity of Motives" is not a reference to slavery.
From the Galveston Daily News June 4, 1912 Page 12
"Imposing Ceremony Marks Unveiling"
Address by Charles B. Macgill, nephew of Gen. J. E. B. Stuart: "Because it
was their duty to themselves, their country and their God to defend their homes
against the invasion of those who would usurp that most sacred safeguard of personal liberty, the inherent and cherished constitutional right of a free people to govern themselves, the confederates sacrificed all save honor. For four long years, with an army numbering at the most not 900,000 men poorly armed and equipped, without resources and without reserve forces, they held in check, and in most battles defeated the best armed, equipped and organized army on earth, numbering: three million men or more, with resources and reserve forces unlimited. From first Mananas to Appomattox were fought the bravest and bloodiest battles the world has known."
"Purity of motives" meant the defense of their homes, their farms, their towns, their states, NOT slavery. The statue was dedicated in 1912 and has weathered many hurricanes since (1915, 1932, 1934, 1942, 1943, 1945, 1947, 1949, 1957, 1959, 1961, 1983, 1989, 2001, 2008). God has not removed it.

Mark Aaron

"the invasion of those who would usurp that most sacred safeguard of personal liberty,"

Do you not bother to even read what you write? What about the "personal liberty" of the people enslaved by those traitorous racists? Had they not committed the crimes there would have been no need for the authorities to "invade" them. Preserving the law is not an "invasion."

Carlos Ponce

"Do you not bother to even read what you write?" I didn't write it, just posted in the Galveston Daily News in 1912. It shows the thoughts behind the monument. Some Liberals are trying to rewrite history. Very Orwellian.

Carol Dean

Carlos has once again, given a good response to your comment, Mark. Let's all just try and move on in a positive direction and deal with issues of this nation that currently need to be addressed for our safety. My ARMY officer son is currently stationed in South Korea without his family for 11 more months. He is there to fight for your safety and honor and dignity as well.

Mark Aaron

Your son's service does not justify you glorifying treason and murderous bigotry. Your son, like me, took an oath to honor and defend the Constitution. Trying to overthrow that revered document is treason. I doubt your son is down for that.

Carol Dean

Andy, Mark doesn't WANT to get it. I guess my Republican, Conservative black friends must all be Uncle Toms because they feel that there are some things that we ALL just "need to let go of"?

Mark Aaron

" they feel that there are some things that we ALL just "need to let go of"?"

Yet you don't want to let go of glorifying treason and bigotry. It is long past time that their evil is recognized for what it was and condemned for it. But you just can't let it go, apparently.

Carlos Ponce

More white Liberals want the monument removed than African Americans. It doesn't bother them. They don't HATE.

Charlotte O'rourke

Public spaces should not fly confederate flags.

Public art statues, if historical, should be left in place and preserved. Add additional statues or plaques demonstrating the importance of our struggle to achieve equal rights.

In the past, equal rights meant equal for white men .... definitely not for all men, and not for women who weren't given the right to vote until 1920.

As a nation, we still haven't achieved equal opportunity and total abolishment of racism nor have we achieved equal pay for women and miniorities. This should be our goal .... instead we are wasting time and energy destroying historical art. This historical art is not only beautiful but poses an opportunity for comptemplation and teachable moments. These statues reflect our history with all of its past mistakes and struggles and imperfections.

Let our public spaces show our past as well as our struggle - past, present, future - to finally get it right ....


Mark Aaron

"Public spaces should not fly confederate flags."

Because they glorify racism. Just like monuments do. There is no effective difference.

BTW, Charlotte, I think our kids are best friends.

Carlos Ponce

Mark, does that mean that you have no problems with Confederate Flags flying over "private" venues such as "Six Flags Over Texas"? The Stars and Bars flies proudly over the Arlington, Texas Park. My African-American students had no problem with a Confederate Flag overhead. They don't hate.

Carol Dean

Mark, it is the Antifa organizations that wants to tear down the statues of Lincoln, not conservative organizations be they black, white or any other color. You are the one who is allowing color to blind you and that is EXACTLY what Liberal Democrats have wanted you to do for years! "Stop drinking their kool-aide". The war was NOT nor ever will be about SLAVERY! I still own a Rebel flag or two...I graduated high school from Robert E. Lee high school and Dixie was our fight song! We NEVER thought about associating it with slavery. Has anyone ever pointed out to you that Martin Luther King was a Republican and much of his family still is?

George Croix

No, Aaron, I'm talking to you with that internet tough guy stuff.
Ya figure there's any difference between Al refusing to answer Charlie's question and instead calling for defunding, so closing it down?
I guess you do....

George Croix

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Memorial_(Arlington_National_Cemetery)

Maybe we should tear that down, too, and dig up the 300 or so Confederate soldiers buried at Arllington so we don't offend anyone.
Maybe put their bodies in museums...


Carlos Ponce

There's a Confederate Cemetery in Alvin, Texas established in 1898 and has 37 Confederate Soldiers buried there. Grave sites are still available. I have a classmate buried there. Let them rest in peace.

Charlotte O'rourke

Hi Mark, I think many people see the confederate flag and confederate monuments in the same way that you do. This is especially true after the racist incidents in Charlottesville.

But I see a difference. The confederate flag that was removed from the S.C. Capitol was neither historical nor a piece of art.

People have started destroying these works of art or removing them as if removing or destroying them will remove the stain of slavery?

What does the removal or destruction of these monuments really accomplish and will this ensure equal rights and justice for all Americans in today's environment?

Thanks for posting.


Carol Dean

Yes, Carlos, I have a friend who mows a cemetery in Santa Fe that also has soldiers from the Civil War buried there.

I know that there is really no way to settle this discussion; we have been having it for 150 years. I am with you, let them rest in Peace. I will be moving on as some people will always allow anger to block the truth. NO, I do NOT support the KKK or Neo-Nazis, but I still find it very interesting that both KKK and BLM members arrived in Charlottesville on the same bus!?!?! Maybe George Soros has an explanation for that one!?!?!

George Croix

If anyone really wanted to hurt the hate groups they'd stay AWAY from their public 'protests' and displays of sorriness, and the media would take their cameras elsewhere.
The only thing gained by going there in what is, or at least is supposed to be, oppositian is providing side two to a physical confroontation/fight is publicity, and video air time, which is what the trouble makers of all colors want in the first place.
Who benefits from such stuff...
The 'protesters' don't.
The people hurt or owners of property destroyed don't.
So, then, if nobody benefits from the direct confrontation(s), then who benefits from the afteraffects of it/them?

This latest Charlottsville incident devolved quickly into a political exercise in cherrypicking who's hating and who's nobly countering...as if one lowlife yammering and waving a nazi flag is worse than another guy who goes to the site just to hit him with a bat.
The book burner/history revisionist types have quickly seized the moment to pretend it was all the fault of the Civil War Confederacy, and the same people who are still using that century and a half old war as an excuse for their own hate are busy toppling monuments or calling people 'racist' or questioning their morals who don't agree with their right to blame their chosen victimism on everybody else.
The media was ready and waiting to spend more air time and more breathless commentary/inuendo on damning Pres. Trump, then and still, for having the audacity to call out ALL haters than they did on the slimey nazis themselves, and tnd the counterpunchers have been portrayed too often as some noble opposition rather than the confrontation seeking punks they were.
Etc.
So, ask who all would benefit from widespread discord and more race baiting and fear mongering and Administration attacking and do so selectively as if their screaming and hollering and physical attacks and vandalism are somehow NOT the very hate they claim to oppose.
I, personally, would not be a bit surprised to find that this whole Charlottsville mess has been a set up from the get go...from the initial pritests to the counterpunching to the Orwellian post-incident responses and a media gone absolutely crazy.
Just like Ferguson went quickly from a punk strong-arm robber trying to get a Policeman's gun to riots and looting and the birth of the vile BLM, itself the easy equal of any other supremacy group.
And just like Baltimore and the ginned up racism there and the pulling back of Police to give 'space to destroy'.
Can't prove it...yet....
But it so perfectly fits the profile of the last 7 months of 'resistance' that it's either one helluva coincidence, or just another case of refusing to accept the results of the election, or what Hillary called 'a direct threat to our democracy'....
Only time I've ever agreed with that...woman....

Steve Fouga

"If anyone really wanted to hurt the hate groups they'd stay AWAY from their public 'protests' and displays of sorriness, and the media would take their cameras elsewhere."

^^^^^This is wisdom. Sometimes the most powerful sentiment is one that's seldom used: "I don't care." [cool]

George Croix

[thumbup]

George Croix

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/feds-texas-man-tried-planting-bomb-on-confederate-statue/2017/08/21/6c407a32-869b-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html

Well, that's one way to show some 'anti-hate'....

This has gotten so far out of bounds nutty and so over the top that it's just a matter of time till somebody else innocent is killed because of people who talk against hate while doing even worse themselves, and a media that stirs the pot with gusto, and an eager audience for it.
Insanity.....

Carol Dean

Slave dealers in Africa also sold slaves to England, who then transported and sold them to Americans.

David Doe

Why don't we take a vote? SO far those against taking the monuments Down far outweigh those that do. Then again, you know what they say about "Opinions"

Carlos Ponce

You're right. The consensus among Galveston County residents is leave the monument alone. The nationwide consensus is leave Confederate monuments, memorials, statues alone. There are a few vocal cliques that would disagree. Let them have their say.
Historical preservationists are not white supremacists.
Historical preservationists are not members of the KKK.
Historical preservationists are not neo-Nazis.
Historical preservationists are your neighbors who want to preserve history.
Six Flags Arlington took down 5 of their flags, even The Lone Star Flag. The six flags were a good learning tool, Texas' history on display. Then the day will come when the Stars and Stripes will be taken down too because a handful see it as a symbol of hate. So sad.[sad]

Steve Fouga

I asked this same question on a different thread today. I haven't seen or heard any mention of requests for a vote on any media, mainstream or otherwise.

I've heard of city councils voting, but no requests for a popular vote. My guess is 1) it's administratively difficult, 2) they can't stand the divisiveness and disruption, and 3) they can't stand the answer. By "they," I mean local authorities. Riots would ensue.

George Croix

The statues, all taken down, eliminates that oft visited issue, and so will not be available for future revisiting when another good week or two of century and a half late victimism is needed. They're the perfect straw men for diverting blame from the realities of today, by huffing and puffing about events that not a single living soul in this countryever lived through. I wonder if the clammer for removal isn't a lot of show and less go.
Somebody mentioned the power of symbolism. Yep. It's almost as powerful as group-think.
imo

Carol Dean

Carlos, PLEASE do NOT get me started in regards to Old Glory!!!

Carol Dean

Group Think...One of my favorites! NOT!

John Grossman

Just as the Germans don't have Nazi statues in front of their public buildings we should not have Confederate tribute statues in our public spaces. Regardless of the bravery of individual soldiers, the statues glorify a racist war to preserve slavery. We shouldn't have to explain that to our children.

Carlos Ponce

Our children are taught that slavery was part of the reasons leading up to the Civil War but not the only one.

5th Grade Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills (TEKS)
(4) History. The student understands political, economic, and social changes that occurred in the United States during the 19th century. The student is expected to:
(E) identify the causes of the Civil War, including sectionalism, states' rights, and slavery, and the effects of the Civil War, including Reconstruction and the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to the U.S. Constitution;

7th Grade Texas Essential knowledge and skills (TEKS)
(5) History. The student understands how events and issues shaped the history of Texas during the Civil War and Reconstruction. The student is expected to:
(A) explain reasons for the involvement of Texas in the Civil War such as states' rights, slavery, sectionalism, and tariffs

8th Grade TEKS
8) History. The student understands individuals, issues, and events of the Civil War. The student is expected to:
(B) explain the causes of the Civil War, including sectionalism, states' rights, and slavery

Kimberley Jones Yancy

Carlos, there is a difference between teaching about the Confederacy and glamorizing it through statues to show its glory etc. This is not a new issue for us in our community. Many groups in the past have argued to take down the confederate statue due to for African-Americans it glamorized the institution of slavery and was created to intimidate us during the days of Jim Crow. My grandfather hated those statues and what it stood for. You learn in this society to pick your battles and to not lose your focus. Donald Trump is an example of white rich privilege in America. I know President Obama could not get away with what Trump has done and said the last 8 months or and I don't think even an average working class white American could get away with it either. It is absurd. We are living in strange times. I am going to use my platform to do a town hall discussion and I would love for you and your friends that often blog here on GDN to attend.

George Croix

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/concentration-camp-tours-germany-14175.html

Statues in Germany?
Who needs them to remember history, when they still have the following:

Bergen-Belsen Memorial
Bergen-Belsen operated from 1943 until 1945, and young diarist Anne Frank was one of its prisoners. The Shoah Education Foundation notes that 10,000 non-interred corpses were discovered in 1945 when liberators reached the camp. An additional 40,000 prisoners were found ill at the time of the camp liberation, and nearly 70 percent of these did not survive. Other prisoners from the camp were sent on a forced march to keep them from being liberated by the approaching British forces. The camp was used as a processing location, a prisoner of war facility and a mass execution site. rnrnThe four-hour tour begins with an orientation, a guided program that includes the permanent exhibitions at the memorial museum, and a walk through the concentration camp. A guided walk through the Soviet prisoner of war cemetery is also included. The last tour segment takes visitors to the railway ramp that was used to deliver prisoners to the camp. rnrnThe memorial and film presentation, as well as walking tours, are free of charge, but the museum encourages a contribution for monument maintenance. Visitors may also select individual tour elements, rather than the entire series, but the presentation of historical background information is highly recommended. rnrnBergen-Belsen MemorialrnStiftung niedersachsische GedenkstattenrnAnne-Frank-PlatzrnLohheide, Germany 29303rn+49 0 5051 4759-112rnbergenbelsen.de/en/bildungsangebote

Dachau
Located just outside Munich, Dachau opened in 1933 and was in operation until the liberation in 1945. The U.S. National Holocaust Memorial Center estimates that between 28,000 and 35,000 people died there. The Dachau Concentration Camp Memorial Site offers a detailed history of National Socialism in Germany and the rise of the concentration system, as well as specific information about the camp itself. rnrnThe walking portion of the tour includes a review of the restored early dormitory, an introduction to some of the early camp prisoners and a guided tour through the museum; the tour also features individual buildings and grounds. Several of the displays, including the gas chamber and execution yard, present graphic information of death practices and may not be suitable for some visitors.rnrnThe tour, which requires no reservations for individuals or small groups, begins at the main train station, where viewers can by tickets. Food is not available, and guides recommend packing a meal and bringing a supply of water. The organization conducts guided tours year-round, regardless of weather, and charges nominal fee for admission to the museum. Audio guides are available for a fee.rnrnDachau Concentration Camp Memorial SiternMain Train Station (Hauptbanhof)rnAlte Roemerstrasse 75rnMunich, Germany 85221rn+49 089-66064746rndachautour.com

Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp Memorial Tour
The main gate still reads, "Work Makes You Free." Sachsenhausen was constructed by prisoners as a labor camp in 1936 and was liberated by the Soviets in 1945. Nearly 50,000 people died there. Located outside the city of Berlin. the camp was used by both Germany and the Soviet Union to house prisoners and political enemies. It was also a main training center for German SS officers.rnrnThe walking tour includes the parade grounds (called the Appellplatz), punishment cells, the camp hospital including the pathology laboratory where experiments were performed on prisoners and their remains, as well as the barracks where Jewish prisoners were held. Station Z, a formal execution area designed for performances, and a crematorium are also part in the guided walk.rnrnTours are available year-round, but the initial meeting point shifts in November and again in April. Total time for the tour is six hours, including the transportation to the memorial. Additional fees are collected for the public transportation used on the tour. Guides recommend packing a lunch, as the tour does not provide food. Tickets are available online.rnrnSachsenhausen Concentration Camp Memorial TourrnOriginal Berlin WalksrnSensburger Allee 2rnBerlin, Germany 14055rn+49 30 301 9194rnberlinwalks.com/tours_sachsenhausen.html


Etc.
Perspective...........

Welcome to the discussion.

Keep it Clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK.
Don't Threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
Be Truthful. Don't knowingly lie about anyone or anything.
Be Nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
Be Proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
Share with Us. We'd love to hear eyewitness accounts, the history behind an article.